Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Ephemeria on July 29, 2011, 06:25:38 PM
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Which one do you prefer & why?
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Which one do you prefer & why?
Looks like you're a bit into "let the arguing begin" mood given your last posts. But anyway:
I thought I prefered SC necks, until I put a Crawler set in my Vox and a Mule neck in my SG. Now I know better: the right question is not "SC vs 'bucker", but "good vs bad pickups, which one do you prefer and why" :twisted:
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Yh I'm just trying to get as much all around information as I can for this custom guitar I'm making. That's why I'm doing a few dif posts lol.
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Don't, it's really annoying. Just post asking people about the various questions you have for your custom guitar.
In any case, I'll answer. No neck pickup. No need for it, and the extra magnetic pull on the strings kills your sustain. Happy? :D
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who is the guitar for?
someone else? ask them how they feel.
for you? go to a shop and play some guitars and see what you think.
I doubt averaging out a bunch of opinions from strangers is going to help you make a guitar that is particularly ideal for anyone.
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i like both :D
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who is the guitar for?
someone else? ask them how they feel.
for you? go to a shop and play some guitars and see what you think.
I doubt averaging out a bunch of opinions from strangers is going to help you make a guitar that is particularly ideal for anyone.
Amen.
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or, one thread with an idea of what you want to achieve
questions within that thread.
most answers would be different depending on what you were trying to achieve.
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who is the guitar for?
someone else? ask them how they feel.
for you? go to a shop and play some guitars and see what you think.
I doubt averaging out a bunch of opinions from strangers is going to help you make a guitar that is particularly ideal for anyone.
Amen.
For myself. I've been out in a few shops but they all have cr@p single coils in the neck. I was hoping people could tell me why they prefer singlecoils over humbuckers n vice versa. It's so I can kind of piece together the tone I'm thinking of inside my head. If I knew what each one did better than the other, I might have a better idea of which I should choose. So tbh I think saying about asking a bunch of strangers is not gonna help, really contradicts most of the forum. People ask everyday what pickups would work best don't they? Same as me.
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for me its p90 or a humbucker.
I think overall i prefer humbuckers as i love the neck pickup in parrallel for cleans.
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for me its p90 or a humbucker.
I think overall i prefer humbuckers as i love the neck pickup in parrallel for cleans.
I never actually thought about parallel wiring. How would you say this sounds towards a singlecoil?
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for me its p90 or a humbucker.
I think overall i prefer humbuckers as i love the neck pickup in parrallel for cleans.
I never actually thought about parallel wiring. How would you say this sounds towards a singlecoil?
I dont really have any experience with single coils as all the guitars ive tried with them i've hated so i cant say.
Its just a very lush sounding clean if thats even the right word to describe it
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for me its p90 or a humbucker.
I think overall i prefer humbuckers as i love the neck pickup in parrallel for cleans.
I never actually thought about parallel wiring. How would you say this sounds towards a singlecoil?
I dont really have any experience with single coils as all the guitars ive tried with them i've hated so i cant say.
Its just a very lush sounding clean if thats even the right word to describe it
I'll deffo have to test it out in my other guitar first. Would be really interesting to hear. What neck pickup are you using?
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There are many different kinds of HBs and SCs, so generally saying either has certain advantages is rather hard.
Best way to go about his, imho, to try and describe your vision as best you can and see what people recommend you. If they think your vision is best realised by a SC, there you go.
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No, people come with a list of what they want to get out of a particular pickup or amp or whatever and the guys here help them, often by suggesting a bunch of different products by taking into account the goal said person has said they want to achieve.
People rarely come and say 'lets argue about single coils vs humbuckers' with no specific context. I mean, I can say, "i like humbuckers, because they 'buck' hum". Does that really help? maybe slightly, but it just opens up a more complex debate about tone vs hum compromise. Humbuckers hum less than single coils/P90's.
And you've been in a "few" shops, but none stock a guitar that has a humbucker in the neck? In 2011?
You started this thread to learn about the differences between a humbucker and single coil in the form of a grand debate? You should do what Wez suggested, and then people will be able to help with clear concise points relevant to your goals, rather than just waffling about personal preference which, when it comes down to it, you might actually disagree with.
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No, people come with a list of what they want to get out of a particular pickup or amp or whatever and the guys here help them, often by suggesting a bunch of different products by taking into account the goal said person has said they want to achieve.
People rarely come and say 'lets argue about single coils vs humbuckers' with no specific context. I mean, I can say, "i like humbuckers, because they 'buck' hum". Does that really help? maybe slightly, but it just opens up a more complex debate about tone vs hum compromise. Humbuckers hum less than single coils/P90's.
And you've been in a "few" shops, but none stock a guitar that has a humbucker in the neck? In 2011?
You started this thread to learn about the differences between a humbucker and single coil in the form of a grand debate? You should do what Wez suggested, and then people will be able to help with clear concise points relevant to your goals, rather than just waffling about personal preference which, when it comes down to it, you might actually disagree with.
When did I say anything about any shop having no guitars with neck humbucker? I'm confused :S I said none of the shop had any guitars with descent single coils.
And I actually started this thread to find out the differences between them, pros/cons, etc. The 'Argument begins' bit is just sarcasm since every other forum I look on ends up in a big argument that ends up completely off the subject within 2 posts and doesn't help me in the slightest. I posted on this forum because people tend to have a better idea of what they're talking about without ending up in a big argument. WIll somebody please just tell me what the difference is and why some players prefer one over the other?
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And I actually started this thread to find out the differences between them, pros/cons, etc. The 'Argument begins' bit is just sarcasm since every other forum I look on ends up in a big argument that ends up completely off the subject within 2 posts and doesn't help me in the slightest. I posted on this forum because people tend to have a better idea of what they're talking about without ending up in a big argument. WIll somebody please just tell me what the difference is and why some players prefer one over the other?
It would have been much more straightforward if you had simply asked what you have just said in the first sentence.
Personally I love single coil neck pickups - mainly because I'm a Fender man and have never got on with Humbucker'd guitars. I find neck HBs overly bassy and not suitable for my ears at all. That being said I am a Fender/single coil man and as a result am totally biased in this way.
Probably not a very helpful comment for you as what you go for is absolutely down to personal taste and shouldn't really be guided but what others say and think. For instance we would all be Tele haters if we actually listened to what Roo was saying.
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And I actually started this thread to find out the differences between them, pros/cons, etc. The 'Argument begins' bit is just sarcasm since every other forum I look on ends up in a big argument that ends up completely off the subject within 2 posts and doesn't help me in the slightest. I posted on this forum because people tend to have a better idea of what they're talking about without ending up in a big argument. WIll somebody please just tell me what the difference is and why some players prefer one over the other?
It would have been much more straightforward if you had simply asked what you have just said in the first sentence.
Personally I love single coil neck pickups - mainly because I'm a Fender man and have never got on with Humbucker'd guitars. I find neck HBs overly bassy and not suitable for my ears at all. That being said I am a Fender/single coil man and as a result am totally biased in this way.
Probably not a very helpful comment for you as what you go for is absolutely down to personal taste and shouldn't really be guided but what others say and think. For instance we would all be Tele haters if we actually listened to what Roo was saying.
Yh my bad, I really shudda been more clear. I'm new to forums so not entirely sure. I'll start explaining a bit more haha.
Well basically I'm certain on a humbucker for the bridge. One that really gives a very sweet and beautiful tone when soloing. For the neck I want one that is used for solos and clean chords/arpeggios. Rather than it being a powerful neck pickup, I want it to sound more vintage, but still be able to sing when the distortions added :) I already have a guitar for playing metal so this one is more for writing beautiful, melodic music. Kind of like Satriani
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For myself. I've been out in a few shops but they all have cr@p single coils in the neck. I was hoping people could tell me why they prefer singlecoils over humbuckers n vice versa. It's so I can kind of piece together the tone I'm thinking of inside my head. If I knew what each one did better than the other, I might have a better idea of which I should choose. So tbh I think saying about asking a bunch of strangers is not gonna help, really contradicts most of the forum. People ask everyday what pickups would work best don't they? Same as me.
On most guitar forums, asking for such a general "advice" will not yield any useful answer. On a very few places - this one included -, asking for educated opinions on a much narrower topic can get you educated answers. But trying to learn whether you'd prefer SC over HBs without hands-on experience with both is not going to work.
IOW: you're not asking the right question.
If you're serious about your question, then try and describe "the tone in your head" (yeah, I know, kind of impossible mission - but still...) and ask what pickup could do. Now if you don't have enough hands-on experience, the answers - even educated ones - won't be of much help, because even if you manage and get the right answers, you won't be able the get then answers right. You see, it's not only about "the tone" as you hear it, but also about your own feeling when you actually play the damn thang. No amount of information will replace experience, and experience is something that comes with time and practice. Period.
If that's of any interest, I recently got a RiffRaff bridge for my SG. It was exactly how it had been described by some regulars here, and almost exactly what I did ask for. I sent it back for a Abomb bridge. The problem was not with the product itself (very great pickup indeed), the problem was not that it was not what I asked for, the problem was that what I thought I wanted was not what I really wanted (or if you prefer, what works for me). I just didn't have enough experience with low-output vintage-voiced buckers to really understand what I was asking for and the answers I got. Now I know, and I'm glad I made this "mistake" (thanks to BKP's 14 days return policy and how they understand the "14 days"), because I now have a way better understanding of what people say about this kind of pickups. As a side note, I'll get me a guitar with low-output buckers when I can afford it, it just rule for some kind of tones...
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For myself. I've been out in a few shops but they all have cr@p single coils in the neck. I was hoping people could tell me why they prefer singlecoils over humbuckers n vice versa. It's so I can kind of piece together the tone I'm thinking of inside my head. If I knew what each one did better than the other, I might have a better idea of which I should choose. So tbh I think saying about asking a bunch of strangers is not gonna help, really contradicts most of the forum. People ask everyday what pickups would work best don't they? Same as me.
On most guitar forums, asking for such a general "advice" will not yield any useful answer. On a very few places - this one included -, asking for educated opinions on a much narrower topic can get you educated answers. But trying to learn whether you'd prefer SC over HBs without hands-on experience with both is not going to work.
IOW: you're not asking the right question.
If you're serious about your question, then try and describe "the tone in your head" (yeah, I know, kind of impossible mission - but still...) and ask what pickup could do. Now if you don't have enough hands-on experience, the answers - even educated ones - won't be of much help, because even if you manage and get the right answers, you won't be able the get then answers right. You see, it's not only about "the tone" as you hear it, but also about your own feeling when you actually play the damn thang. No amount of information will replace experience, and experience is something that comes with time and practice. Period.
If that's of any interest, I recently got a RiffRaff bridge for my SG. It was exactly how it had been described by some regulars here, and almost exactly what I did ask for. I sent it back for a Abomb bridge. The problem was not with the product itself (very great pickup indeed), the problem was not that it was not what I asked for, the problem was that what I thought I wanted was not what I really wanted (or if you prefer, what works for me). I just didn't have enough experience with low-output vintage-voiced buckers to really understand what I was asking for and the answers I got. Now I know, and I'm glad I made this "mistake" (thanks to BKP's 14 days return policy and how they understand the "14 days"), because I now have a way better understanding of what people say about this kind of pickups. As a side note, I'll get me a guitar with low-output buckers when I can afford it, it just rule for some kind of tones...
+1
Humbuckers reject hum because of the way they are made. The clue is in the name. That is the plus side. If you use a lot of gain you'd find hum from P90's or other single coils more noticeable than you might on a HB.
The tone of all 3 is different. You might really like the sound of a P90/SC in the neck but you might not like the hum.
I've played humbuckers for years. I like P90's but I don't like hum. I could probably use a P90 in the neck though since i mostly use the bridge pup. Some people prefer the P90/SC tone enough and aren't bothered about the noise or the noise just isn't an issue due to a particular persons playing style.
Now you've actually made a note of what you want to get out of the neck pickup, I imagine people will be able to help you out a lot more specifically but you won't be making a truly educated guess unless you get out there and try some of these things.
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For myself. I've been out in a few shops but they all have cr@p single coils in the neck. I was hoping people could tell me why they prefer singlecoils over humbuckers n vice versa. It's so I can kind of piece together the tone I'm thinking of inside my head. If I knew what each one did better than the other, I might have a better idea of which I should choose. So tbh I think saying about asking a bunch of strangers is not gonna help, really contradicts most of the forum. People ask everyday what pickups would work best don't they? Same as me.
On most guitar forums, asking for such a general "advice" will not yield any useful answer. On a very few places - this one included -, asking for educated opinions on a much narrower topic can get you educated answers. But trying to learn whether you'd prefer SC over HBs without hands-on experience with both is not going to work.
IOW: you're not asking the right question.
If you're serious about your question, then try and describe "the tone in your head" (yeah, I know, kind of impossible mission - but still...) and ask what pickup could do. Now if you don't have enough hands-on experience, the answers - even educated ones - won't be of much help, because even if you manage and get the right answers, you won't be able the get then answers right. You see, it's not only about "the tone" as you hear it, but also about your own feeling when you actually play the damn thang. No amount of information will replace experience, and experience is something that comes with time and practice. Period.
If that's of any interest, I recently got a RiffRaff bridge for my SG. It was exactly how it had been described by some regulars here, and almost exactly what I did ask for. I sent it back for a Abomb bridge. The problem was not with the product itself (very great pickup indeed), the problem was not that it was not what I asked for, the problem was that what I thought I wanted was not what I really wanted (or if you prefer, what works for me). I just didn't have enough experience with low-output vintage-voiced buckers to really understand what I was asking for and the answers I got. Now I know, and I'm glad I made this "mistake" (thanks to BKP's 14 days return policy and how they understand the "14 days"), because I now have a way better understanding of what people say about this kind of pickups. As a side note, I'll get me a guitar with low-output buckers when I can afford it, it just rule for some kind of tones...
Yh I get what you're trying to say. I'd just really like to 'try' and get right first time - or at least damn close. I can't afford to keep paying for somebody to wire them and sending them back if I don't like them lol.
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Yh I get what you're trying to say. I'd just really like to 'try' and get right first time
Chances are you won't.
- or at least damn close. I can't afford to keep paying for somebody to wire them
Then don't. Get yourself a decent soldering iron instead - soldering is no rocket science, you know - and you'll save a lot of money in the end (and not only with pickups wiring FWIW).
and sending them back if I don't like them.
This is another problem, and the best way to solve it is to first try as much gear as possible so you can communicate about gears with other peoples, then try to do your best to describe what you're looking for, what you tried, and you felt about it.
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Yh I know I won't lol. I guess the fun of finding the perfect tone is the journey lol.
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the best thing you can do is call/email Tim or any of the BKP staff and describe exactly what sounds you like and dont like and what your setup is/is going to be and they will be able to work with that to give you the best recommendation from the product line.
Also in response to your earlier question.
I am currently using a Mississippi Queen humbucker sized p90. Which is great as i can swap and change it with humbuckers.
If you go straight p90 or SC you are stuck with either one of those unless you want to go get your guitar routed.
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Yh I know I won't lol. I guess the fun of finding the perfect tone is the journey lol.
WALL OF TEXT INC.
Yeah, and a lot of your tone and playing comfort and feel comes from far more than just the PUs.
You have this really complex machine, and if you change one wheel you may change how the machines work.
I personally am still on my journey, but even I have close to 20 different pics (shapes, materials, thicknesses) laying around (I have about 4 regulars and depending on what sound and feel I want I switch em up), tried about as many different strings (brands, materials, core shapes,....) and use a different set on each of my axes, as everyone has different needs.
I have spend time on picking the right cables (some still need to be changed), the right effects in the right order, the correct EQing, the right valves for my amp in the right order (have about 7 different 12Ax7s laying around).
On my accoustic I had to get the right bridge pins, on the electric I am still toying with all my PU heights, especially on my BKPs.
And with every change in one of those factors, possibly every other part has to be revised (as will probably be the case when I get a new cab).
Is it a lot of work? Yes. Do I love it? Yes. Is it rewarding? Yes.
I still spend hours reading up on stuff and go further into the rabbit whole. It has become an obsession.
And let me tell you, it never get´s perfect. There is always a point where you think: Hey this need to be smoother on the neck. It needs more bite. It needs to be less fizzy in the bass of this distorted sound,......
I have complaints about every guitar I have, cause they don´t do everything.
The art is to realize what every guitar does well, but you cannot really plan on that.
I am extremly happy with my BKPs, I would not change them for anything in the world. They are what I wanted and then again not. It is hard to describe.
Best thing you can do is start the journey, cause it really is about what you see along the way. As you travel the roads to your destination you may happen to see things that are more beautiful than what you are aiming for and your destination will change. Maybe you will pick something up along the way and continue, just to realize later that what you wanted was already with you all the time.
Chances are great you won´t get it "right" the first time. But that does not mean that you won´t get a beautiful instrument that you will love more than some of your Ex-girlfriends.
Most people here end up with several guitars anyway cause there is not one right one.
Tell us what you dream of in everyway possible and maybe we can give you a direction. No pinpoint on the map, you will have to find the spot yourself by walking there, but we can help.
Just think about what and how you´re playing, how it sounds in your head. You cannot realize a vision you have not understood yourself yet.
Oh and get yourself a soldering iron. Does probably cost less than what you´d pay for the wiring to be done, so you save money, learn something usefull, can try around with combinations and deepen the relationship with your instrument.
After you have learned it (which really is not that hard) there is only pros to it.
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As someone with no experience at all with soldering, It took me about 5 minutes to get the hang of it enough that I changed pickups and jack socket with no damage to guitar or myself.
It's a useful skill anyway but especially so for a guitarist.
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strat coil or mini-humbucker. nice and bright with lots of cut
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Don't, it's really annoying. Just post asking people about the various questions you have for your custom guitar.
In any case, I'll answer. No neck pickup. No need for it, and the extra magnetic pull on the strings kills your sustain. Happy? :D
Amen
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P90 - There is no need for any other pickups :D
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P90 - There is no need for any other pickups :D
My favourite guitars come fitted with P-90s as standard, that's for sure - most of the guitars I've bought in the last few years have (or had) P-90s.
But I still like humbuckers and Fender single-coils as well. :)
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I think Tim should make a pickup where you can switch between HB, single coil and P90 :?
Probably impossible, but it wouldn't half be badass.
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I think Tim should make a pickup where you can switch between HB, single coil and P90 :?
Probably impossible, but it wouldn't half be badass.
[Cough]Well, it's certainly possible.....[/Cough]
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/progressive/prails_shpr1/ (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/progressive/prails_shpr1/)
But I shouldn't think Tim would want to step on someone else's toes like that.
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Clever, but ugly as :censored:
That's just so wrong on every single level.
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I think Tim should make a pickup where you can switch between HB, single coil and P90 :?
Probably impossible, but it wouldn't half be badass.
[Cough]Well, it's certainly possible.....[/Cough]
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/progressive/prails_shpr1/ (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/progressive/prails_shpr1/)
But I shouldn't think Tim would want to step on someone else's toes like that.
I've been wanting to see more variation from this design, for years. I suspect SD would be real quick to sue over someone else making one, though.
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Clever, but ugly as :censored:
That's just so wrong on every single level.
Yeah, I sort of agree - I like the concept, I'm sure it sounds good (although both the "humbucker" and "single-coil" seem to be somewhat compromised to make room for the "P-90"), but it is so ugly I wouldn't want one in a guitar... might suit something like a Godin, though.
It's got almost too many options, as well - split/humbucker/split on a 3-way's the obvious choice, but series/parallel would be really interesting too.
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All solutions have their pros and cons:
Humbucker:
+ does not hum
+ sounds fat, especially for leads in the upper register
+ if fitted with a 4 conductor wire provides most potential for versatility
- bass strings may be too boomy and muddy
- output should not be too high
Single Coil:
+ always sounds clear and bright
- hums (humfree alternatives available, unfortunately not from BKP)
P90:
+ tonally the best compromise of all, warm high strings and still clear low strings
- hums even more (even less alternatives available)
Listing is not meant to be exhaustive.
Just my 0.02c.
Cheers Stephan
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I've been trying to work out the pro's and cons of installing a dummy coil in the guitar body (so it can't be seen) and seeing if this can be used for hum cancelling on a set P90's.
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I've been trying to work out the pro's and cons of installing a dummy coil in the guitar body (so it can't be seen) and seeing if this can be used for hum cancelling on a set P90's.
There's an idea!
Why not use the useless middle single coil route on a super strat? It's just a quack-factory, anyway.
...quacktory...
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That's more or less what I was thinking, except for mounting it in the body so it can't be seen from the front (I find HSH guitars ugly).
It's innovation number six on the guitar that I've been designing in my head for the last five years. One day I'll get round to building it :lol:
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That's more or less what I was thinking, except for mounting it in the body so it can't be seen from the front (I find HSH guitars ugly).
It's innovation number six on the guitar that I've been designing in my head for the last five years. One day I'll get round to building it :lol:
I have a skewed opinion on "ugly," it seems. I don't pine after the HSH, but I certainly don't mind it. Then again, if the guitar has rust/tape/scars/gaping holes, I'm more fond of it.
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I've been trying to work out the pro's and cons of installing a dummy coil in the guitar body (so it can't be seen) and seeing if this can be used for hum cancelling on a set P90's.
Gibson did that on one of the Nighthawk series - I think it was called the Blueshawk model. The dummy coil had its own little cavity with a cover on the back.
And there's Music Man's "Silent Circuit", I think that involves a dummy coil. And Suhr's "BPSSC" which again ivolves a dummy coil attached to an oversized backplate (not sure what you do if your guitar doesn't have a backplate!).
They're all good ideas, but they seem a bit fiddly with the wiring. And (depending on who you believe) they don't seem to leave the tone completely unaffected. I'm not convinced it's any better a solution than a set of Virtual Vintages or Kinmans (I'd really like to try their P-90s, but they're hugely expensive).
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- I had a Blueshawk (a blue one with cream P90's). Sounded good, but sold it cause I somehow never took it on stage. Maybe too many soundoptions. I preferred my tele.
- This thread is actually a non-discussion. When you play SRV you will prefer a singlecoil in the neck.
For Satriani-stuff you want a hb. Just an example. Every style dictates somewhat which guitar you pick.
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You're probably not gonna get a pickup that does it all. Seeing that you've chosen humbucker for the bridge, one thing to have in mind is that the neck single coil will probably give a drop in volume, which is something you might not like, if you like to play lead on it too. YMMV! But for very nice cleans and still thick distorted humbucker sounds, a good HSS (or HS) guitar is.. good :)
Personally if I were you, I would choose a humbucker for neck position, one that splits well. My brother's custom strat has a NB set, and switching configuration we got from Brian Moore guitars (my friend used to have one). It's the C-55 pickup configuration in the link posted below, if you're interested.
http://iguitarworkshop.com/Custom%20Shop-Owners%20Manual.pdf (http://iguitarworkshop.com/Custom%20Shop-Owners%20Manual.pdf)
It's a very, very versatile combination, and the split buckers sound very good too!
-Zaned
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You're probably not gonna get a pickup that does it all. Seeing that you've chosen humbucker for the bridge, one thing to have in mind is that the neck single coil will probably give a drop in volume, which is something you might not like, if you like to play lead on it too. YMMV! But for very nice cleans and still thick distorted humbucker sounds, a good HSS (or HS) guitar is.. good :)
Personally if I were you, I would choose a humbucker for neck position, one that splits well. My brother's custom strat has a NB set, and switching configuration we got from Brian Moore guitars (my friend used to have one). It's the C-55 pickup configuration in the link posted below, if you're interested.
http://iguitarworkshop.com/Custom%20Shop-Owners%20Manual.pdf (http://iguitarworkshop.com/Custom%20Shop-Owners%20Manual.pdf)
It's a very, very versatile combination, and the split buckers sound very good too!
-Zaned
I'm actually surprised no one has suggested coil splitting. If they have, I apologise for not noticing.
Just do this to make your own decision. If you like the single coil sound, but need a but more "oomph," grab an HSP90.
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I think Tim should make a pickup where you can switch between HB, single coil and P90 :?
Probably impossible, but it wouldn't half be badass.
[Cough]Well, it's certainly possible.....[/Cough]
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/progressive/prails_shpr1/ (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/progressive/prails_shpr1/)
But I shouldn't think Tim would want to step on someone else's toes like that.
I have a set of these! been in 2 different guitars and currently homeless. They where very high output with lots of switching options but I spent more time fiddling with the switches searching for the best sound than playing guitar. Never quite got the sound I wanted either. If you had a set Tim could probably rewind them for you.