Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: Roobubba on August 06, 2011, 11:41:47 AM
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Here's an open letter to HSBC I wrote in response to them forcing me to carry around/use their IDIOTIC secure key device.
Facebook link to my letter (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150331596882456)
Dear Sir/Madam
I am utterly digusted that you have decided to follow Barclays in enforcing your customers to carry/use a 70s style calculator device to log in to internet banking.
I have many concerns about both this policy, and the device specifically, and will now be forced to look for another bank, unless you provide an opt-out or alternative security scheme which does not impose so massively upon my everyday life.
Allow me to explain my main objections to this device.
Firstly, you are not the first nor only bank to decide to do this. I do not only bank with you (and certainly will not, now), and therefore I could potentially be required to carry around 3 or 4 such devices with me if I wish to use internet banking anywhere but my own home. This is a totally unacceptable imposition on me. I have enough junk to carry around as it is.
Secondly, however small the device, it will not fit neatly into my wallet. This means that I am bound to lose it, which will cause even further impedence to my online banking.
Thirdly, you are placing a device that can tell whether a PIN is correct or not into the hands of the masses, like Barclays before you. In the longer term, I do not see this being a good thing. Very shortly after Barclays released their cretinous security devices, there were reports of these being deconstructed and hooked up permanently to a computer with a card in so that the user could access internet banking remotely via a VPN to their own house. Clearly this is a far less secure method of online banking than any that existed to date, but it shows the potential for misuse by making such a device so widely available.
So, in response to your letter with the enclosed idiotic device, I do NOT feel more secure with it, and I see immediately that it makes onnline banking nigh on impossible for me: I refuse to be forced to carry it around - who do you think you are to impose this on me?
Fourthly, given the scale of the operation, this is a huge waste of plastic, paper, and time. The environmental impact cannot be ignored, and that you're willing to throw away so much money like this in such a destructive manner worries me greatly.
Finally, I moved from Barclays because they did this a year ago. I cannot believe that the staff who I asked specifically "Does HSBC have any plans to bring in a similar device?" would not have been aware that you not only had plans but were actively implementing them. If they did not know this, then your intra-organisational communication is extremely poor, and I would be better off distancing myself from your company in any case. So, only a year after having asked that question, I feel that I was misled, and that the huge inconvenience you are causing me by this move is entirely avoidable, and is your responsibility.
You have not given me greater peace of mind, you have given me a massive headache. It is a totally unreasonable imposiiton by you. You should instead be putting resource into devising innovative ways of countering internet fraud that do not impose unreasonblly upon your customers. I have no confidence in an organisation that comes up with this as a good idea and forces its customers to use it without consultation or the option to opt-out. It is a stupid, cretinous and half-witted idea that lacks foresight.
Having failed to come up with a better solution to improve online banking security, I am left exceedingly disappointed in your organisation, and will now be forced to change banks again.
I do hope (at least eventually) that you see that this security device is bad for customers, is bad for the long-term health of banking security in the UK, and is a very bad reflection of your company. I trust that you will not impede me further in removing my funds from my account as and when I find another bank who does not have such idiotic ideas about online banking security.
Yours faithfully
Isaac Westwood
I moved from Barclays a year ago because they introduced such a thing. Now it seems they've had so many complaints about it, they're not making you use it to log in, only to make payments to new payees - that's still unacceptable to me: when I bought my guitar from Wez, I couldn't make the new payment to him because of this stupid device from Barclays. Thankfully, I managed to sort this by paying from my Alliance and Leicester joint account, then fiddling about shifting money from my personal account after the event, but it was a massive inconvenience at the time, and I will never forgive Barclays for doing that to me. Totally unnecessary.
If you're digruntled, like me, please also complain to your bank about it, and make as much fuss as you can be bothered to (and then a bit more!). Without our complaints, soon ALL the banks will follow suit and make you carry around their cretinous 70s calculators!
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As i said on FB earlier Co-Op and LLoyds also do this too.
And i believe halifax are starting it.
On the coop accounts it isnt as severe its only to setup new transfers everything else is still normal
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And it's still not acceptable!
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Well said!! These things are a F**king nightmare.
PDT_003 PDT_045 PDT_046
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I don't have to use anything like that for my Lloyds current account...
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no idea what that is, but that sounds like it sucks.
that being said, there's no way i'd do anything with my bank account online. the only thing i'll use online is a CC, because by law if you get ripped, unless you're a complete idiot and go about posting your CC number online, it's the CC company's problem. Not so with the bank- they may sort it out out of goodwill, but they're not legally obliged to, as far as i'm aware.
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I have one of those for my NatWest account, but I only have to use it for setting up new payees and modifying standing orders. Still, it is a pain in the arse.
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I don't have to use anything like that for my Lloyds current account...
you're lucky
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Also with TSB, also dont have any such contraption. Thank $%&# for that too, it seems quite a detestible idea and I'd leave my bank if it tried to make me do have one.
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...make me do have one.
???
Not like you MDV.... :lol:
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I can only imagine either far too little or far too much caffiene would make me do type that.
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:lol:
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I know you don't feel more secure but I think the point of them is to stop key logging viruses, also no one else can use your account for sending money without the "calculator" and card. In today's world of instant gratification it is still better than having to go the bank every time you want to do something. ;)
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You know only this morning I lost the bloody thing.
Good man!
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Having read this thread a number of times I'm getting the feeling that Roo may have found something to replace his hatred of Teles!
I don't use one of these things as - I don't really do much internet banking whilst on the move. Maybe that will change in a few years but for the moment this issue isn't getting in my way.
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I'm with RBS and have no such device. Which is good, I use online banking loads when I'm out the house.
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I'm with RBS and have no such device. Which is good, I use online banking loads when I'm out the house.
I'm with RBS and I have one.
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Well Ulster Bank (NatWest) in Northern Ireland have them, and they're annoying to the point that I'm not with Ulster Bank anymore.
I'm with Santander and I use online banking via my iPad which works but they don't have an app for me which is slightly annoying but not on topic.
But I can see how difficult it can be, I had to send away for a replacement. Yet they didn't even ask about anything on the missing one or if one does go missing and they replace it is just a waste of money for the function of the device in the first place (commas where appropriate, I'm tired)
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Right, 2 fingers up to HSBC, I've now switched banks AGAIN.
Santander (with whom Mrs Roo and I have a joint account) have a one-off text system to set up new payees. That sounds like a sensible idea, given that I carry my mobile with me everywhere. Saves me from having to use a stupid device to log in, and to carry it with me everywhere if I want to use online banking away from home, which I do.
So barclays and HSBC can $%&# themselves.
Good riddance.
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Get this.
I've just tried logging in my banking and i now have to install a browser plugin in order to log in....
this is getting frustrating
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Switch banks, Toe-knee! Vote with your feet! The new bank can close the old account and move all direct debits over. I's recommend not going with HSBC, Natwest or Barclays, though, as they all use those stupid devices for sure.
Roo
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I know the new bank can do all that ive changed accounts a few times over the last 2 years.
Its annoying as hell though as other than this Coop have been great.
But this is just over the top security.
Im perfectly fine using my own security that i CHOOSE i dont want other shite forced on me
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Customer service workers have fun jobs, don't they?
I'm with RBS and I have one.
Me too. I don't really see the problem to be honest, I keep it in my desk drawer and if I'm likely to need to do any banking on the move I slip it into my laptop's carry case.
Depends on how you use the system no doubt but I find it hard to imagine it ever being a major problem rather than a minor inconvenience.
I also find it hard to understand why people feel forced into things by their banks. They offer what they offer, if you don't want it go somewhere else. Same as any other product or service, surely? :S
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Well I banked with Barclays for many a year, the choice they made me make was: live with the hassle (glad it wasn't a hassle for you, it is for me) or move banks. Moving banks is also a hassle. So whichever way you look at it, they forced me to do something I didn't want to have to do.
FWIW I also have severe doubts about the actual benefit such a system brings, especially when you weigh up the cost both economically and environmentally that these devices command. Plus they do nothing to protect you from people stealing your card details and buying things online, which - in my naive mind - is a much bigger risk.
I'm generally a supporter of security methods brought in, for example at airports (to some degree). However, where these go too far, someone needs to stand up and point out what's gone wrong.
On the one hand, I've not got a problem with the X-ray scanners at airports. On the other, if we have to be seen naked when we travel, perhaps the terrorists have already won?
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The shopping online stuff is generally protected by the visa/mastercard secure thingy
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The shopping online stuff is generally protected by the visa/mastercard secure thingy
Sigh, yeah but that's not my point!
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First Direct still have UK call centres and a decent online banking system. Quite impressive considering they're part of HSBC who have neither...
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I have a card reader for my LloydsTSB business account. Utter pain.
Had my card cloned at the start of the year (Best Buy sales assistant) but the reader wouldn't work so I couldn't get into my account to see if the thieving scrotes were still at it. They were. It felt like I couldn't get to my own money but every other $%&#er could
I complained to LloydsTSB about it but it didn't do any good. Charged me a fiver for a new reader.
I tried out other banks but they all said that a card reader was used or about to be implemented. The Santander method doesn't work for me as I'm not allowed a mobile at work.
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I have a card reader for my LloydsTSB business account. Utter pain.
Had my card cloned at the start of the year (Best Buy sales assistant) but the reader wouldn't work so I couldn't get into my account to see if the thieving scrotes were still at it. They were. It felt like I couldn't get to my own money but every other $%&#er could
I complained to LloydsTSB about it but it didn't do any good. Charged me a fiver for a new reader.
I tried out other banks but they all said that a card reader was used or about to be implemented. The Santander method doesn't work for me as I'm not allowed a mobile at work.
I don't get any reception at work, but at least if I need to use it, I can take a walk into the car park to pick up any messages.
When you say not allowed, are you not allowed to even bring them on site?
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I work on oil and gas platforms and even though the majority don't get a signal there are very few places that let you take them onboard.
I took Lady Billt and Clydette on holiday to Sri Lanka a couple of years ago and the cash machine stopped giving us local cash after the first day.
When I phoned the bank (Nationwide) to unblock it they said I needed the stupid reader to unblock it online.
Didn't bring it did I?
That was when I realised that depending on a separate piece of hardware for my online banking security was gonna be a ball-ache