Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Sir_Palomid on August 14, 2011, 09:48:56 AM
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Good morning ladies and gentlemen! :)
I'm new to the forum, so it's my first post here.
I know, that there is a lot of threads about choosing pickups for PRS guitars,
but I dare to start another one, because I didn't find an answer for my situation.
I've bought an PRS Custom 22 from eBay, and while waiting for this beauty to arrive - thinking about pickups possible swap. Mine don't have Dragon II pups, told that it has pups from Artist Series (though I cannot find something useful about them), and custom stoptail - tune-o-matic wraparound, with possibility to intone each saddle.
I play in progressive rock/metal band, more rock than metal though, so my main music style is progressive, also I play some funk (more Guthrie Govan's funk, that traditional one), blues and blues rock (SRV, Gary Moore, ZZ Top). I also fond of 70-80 hard/latin rock - Santana, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, even Van Halen.
I don't know anything about PRS Artist pickups,
but I know what I want to get from the sound:
Leads must be fluid (at the same time punchy, cutting through the mix) and musical (think more Roine Stolt from Flower Kings/Transatlantic, or hotter Santana\Andrew Latimer from Camel rather then John Petrucci higain compressed sound), not harsh, with good midrange and overtones, capable to play in all the styles mentioned above, also manage some heavy riffing well, and to do coil split well too (I'll use 5 way rotary switch).
I have Cold Sweat\Nailbomb in my Washburn WI66, and while I like Cold Sweat in the neck, Nailbomb is too edgy and modern for me, with rather flat than musical mids, so I don't think I'll try that combo in PRS.
I'm thinking about "Vintage Hot" BKP humbuckers:
VHII set (I see a lot of people like them in PRS, but I also heard some complaints, that it's too "singlecoilish")
Emerald set (heard it has nice overtones, bridge hotter than VHII, nothing else I know about it either)
Abraxas set (crunchy full midrange, balanced tone, bridge hotter than VHII)
So, which one of them will suit me fine?
Really confused... I'm more toward VHII, but that "singlecoilish" really put me against it, I don't like "thin" pickups.
Before I've swapped for Nailbomb in my Washburn there was Seymour Duncan Custom Custom SH-11, it's was wonderful pickup for leads, but not that good and clear for riffing.
What can you say about PRS Artist series pups? (Mine is 2004 PRS Custom 22, don't know if it was already with Artists, or swapped later)
Looking forward for your suggestions!
Thanks :)
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Welcome!
From your description, I would take a look at:
Holydivers
Emeralds
Abraxas
The Holydivers are 80s style rock and metal (but maybe a bit too hot and compressed).
Emeralds are a smooth vintage PAF style and would get my vote, I loved a set I had recently in a McCarty Korina.
The Abraxas set is something of a mix of the other two!
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I think you would enjoy the Abraxas set greatly. The Alnico IV magnet should provide a great middle ground between the smooth leads you enjoyed with the AII Custom Custom and the less subtle AV sound of the Nailbomb. The Abraxas' sound is rich and warm, but with a great open midrange character and clear top end that I believe would tick all your boxes.
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I have an Artist Series II 22 fret, which had the Artist pickups in. I wasn't really keen on them and originally swapped them for the first series Dragons. Those still weren't doing it for me and I wasn't playing the guitar much until I discovered Bare Knuckle Pickups back in 2004. I originally put a set of VHII's in it, and immediately loved the guitar's sound, though I have since changed them to AIV Mules, as I wanted a bit more vintage tone.
I have a 1990 Standard with Rebel Yells, which is an incredible rock guitar and loves to give harmonic feedback. My 2002 singlecut has Abraxas' in it and they sound great in there. I have Emeralds in my custom Les Paul Custom, and had a bridge Emerald with a Mule neck in another LP. I have a Holydiver bridge and 2 Trilogy Suites in a super strat. I also have most of the other BK pickups, and so think I can give you a good idea of what you mike like, especially since Camel are one of my favourite bands!
I would go with the Emerald bridge and an AIV mule neck (or the Abraxas neck if you want a bit more Santana smothness). The Emerald is a very underrated pickup and I love the way it produces harmonics and drive, which I think will work for your rock tones. With either of these in combination, the AV & AIV magnets work together in an interesting way to almost give a Peter Green tone when both pickups are on (which was the original PRS wiring, and is now like that on some new ones). Coil split and series parallel on the regular PRS will work, but make sure you request a set of pickups to go in a PRS, as BK will then flip one of the magnets to give you hum-cancelling sounds in the split positions.
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Thanks everybody for the input!
So, I nailed down to Abraxas or Emeralds.
Just for example, what king of music we play in our band - this is our last song, it's pre-mix I would say, need some EQ here and there, but all instruments are nicely balanced. Almost all distorted electric guitars were played by myself, except one solo near the end of the song. It's Cold Sweat\Nailbomb combo in my Washburn.
http://www.myspace.com/artlandprog/music/songs/psalm-19-79564742
I just want smoother sound in leads, more dynamics and warmth...
Does anybody have examples\sound clips of Abraxas and Emeralds played with medium\hi-gain?
Both of them sounds great in clips here (Emerald has fantastic overtones, and Abraxas so damn crunchy, love them), "Classic Rock" ones, but what would happen in higher gain situations?
Also, I see that Abraxas have more bass than Emeralds, what would you say about Emeralds with pickup covers?
How does it affect the tone?
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I've found two ,ore or less nice videos on YouTube of Abraxas PU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-vNNMyWMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUvXNV8w0KU
So, I'm pretty sold on Abraxas, really nice and THICK tone, hi-gain video reminded me this song of incredible band, Robert Fripp uses quite similar type of sound here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWN9oqTSs14
Tell me please, what kind of pickup specs should I order for PRS - short leg, 53 mm spacing at the bridge, right?
Also, will covers affect the tone a lot? I want golden ones, will be nice match with my new axe I think
And black pickup rings, flat ones, I think will suit.
(http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/35091823/aview/2004TortoiseShellCustom2210Top4-85391-10.jpg)
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You need to order:
Short leg
53mm spacing
Four conductor wiring
Reversed magnet in one of the pickups (to work with the 5-way)
Great looking guitar!
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Also, will covers affect the tone a lot?
They do affect the sound a little, but BKP adjust their winding accordingly so the difference is as minimal as possible. Don't let it sway your aesthetic judgement - the sonic difference isn't large enough to need take it into consideration.
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Nolly, Twinfan, thanks a lot!
I've just ordered a set of golden covered Abraxas pickups.
Appreciate your help :)
Yes, guitar on the pics is really stunning - few dings here and there, but nothing that awful or bad, just normal for guitar that was played a lot for 7 years. Got it for 2100$ shipped, very good deal I suppose - new Custom 24 would cost me almost 5000$ :D
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Hi,
By reading your description of sound I was immediately thinking "Abraxas" so I believe you made a good decision. I bought a used Abraxas neck from one of the forum members here and already ordered a bridge model from BKP. Looking very much forward to it.
Cheers Stephan
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No problem, let us know how you get on with the pickups when they arrive!
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I've found two ,ore or less nice videos on YouTube of Abraxas PU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-vNNMyWMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUvXNV8w0KU
That first video is mine - still sounds massive when I listen back to that tone, oh yeah!!! :D
I found the Abraxas to be very versatile, blues to metal with aplomb.
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Thank you, Stephan!
I'm looking very much forward to new pickups and guitar too... I have about three weeks of waiting ahead..grrrrr :D
Just that waiting raises my blood pressure up :?
Why post-office cannot use teleports for delivery? :lol:
Nolly, I think Abraxas set will suit me well too,
I suppose to do a review and post it on YouTube about PRS Artist pickups vs. BKP Abraxas, clean and dirty, as soon as pickups and guitar will arrive.
HTH AMPS, there was another your video - you play LP through the clean channel of Vox amp, I think "Stormy Monday Blues", also dig clean sound of Abraxas as well 8)
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Hi, guys, I'm back :)
Couple of days ago I've received my PRS Custom 22 - what a wonderful guitar!
Pickups are still on the way to local post office, it's question of day or two, though.
I've recorded a little demo here, just PRS plugged in BOSS MICRO BR-80,
a little Guthrie Govan's cover.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1175218&songID=10999981
Enjoy!
Comments are appreciated :D
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Sounds good to me, BKPs will just give it that edge in clarity I think!
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Hello everybody!
Yesterday I've received and installed pickups, spent whole evening at the studio, noodling with the amp\pickups.
At first impressions - I think I'll go back to the PRS Artist's, Abraxas is nice and crunchy in clean\warm ovedrive, much clearer and defined than Artists, but when you move to heavy rock\metal Abraxas turn to complete mess,
I didn't find it "fat and warm", it's rather brittle and loose.. Artist's wins hands down, much fatter sound. :(
I'll give a try for Abraxas for day or two, and then would make a final decision, but at that moment I'm disappointed in what I've got... :?
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Have you tried adjusting the pickup heights? BKPs are very sensitive to where they are in relatin to the strings. It sounds like you might need to try them higher?
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Maybe, I'll try today set them higher as I can, maybe that will help.
I was surprised how good they sounded clean\crunchy, and how bad when highly distorted.
Thanks for advice!
Do you a starting point for height adjustment? My set is covered, and that's Alnico IV, I think thay could be closer to the strings, than Alnico V?
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I start at 2mm at both sides with the E strings pressed down at the last fret. Then adjust from there!
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Sorry to hear that the Abraxas set did not work out for you. I love mine in my PRS-style swamp ash guitar.
From your description it appears that you expected more tightness and fat midrange from them when played with high gain. I wonder if you would overall be better served with a Holydiver set or Holydiver bridge and Cold Sweat neck then (I use the latter combination in my PRS Custom where they replaced the HFS which I think is OK and the Vintage Bass which I think is rather muddy. Unfortunately I don't know anything about the Artist pickups).
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks, guys!
I've sent a letter to BKP support, maybe they can exchange pickups,
if not - it might be a deal to buy another one, and spend more 200 GBP to see if it's OK or not, some kind of Russian roulette.
If exchange is not possible I'm moving back to Atrists.
As far as I know, Artists are Alnico V pickups, not that hot (8K neck, and 9k bridge).
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Thanks, guys!
I've sent a letter to BKP support, maybe they can exchange pickups,
if not - it might be a deal to buy another one, and spend more 200 GBP to see if it's OK or not, some kind of Russian roulette.
If exchange is not possible I'm moving back to Atrists.
As far as I know, Artists are Alnico V pickups, not that hot (8K neck, and 9k bridge).
Too bad. Sometimes pickups and guitars just don't suit each other. However, it's easier (especially for BKP staff) now to recommend a suiting pickup, seeing what were your gripes with the Abraxas :)
-Zaned
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I'm surprised the Abraxas turns to mush with gain - mine never did. What is your amp/pedals setup?
Also, are you using 500k pots on the guitar?
What about your EQ? - turn down some bass and add some treble if it's mushing out.
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I'm surprised the Abraxas turns to mush with gain - mine never did. What is your amp/pedals setup?
Also, are you using 500k pots on the guitar?
What about your EQ? - turn down some bass and add some treble if it's mushing out.
I would describe "mush" vise versa - a lot of treble, bass becomes loose and all sound quite fizzy.
At clean\crunch - I really love how it sounds like, but when you turn gain up.. :?
As for amps\pedals - I use Peavey Classic 30 and bunch of ToneFreak pedals (Severe, and Abunai 2) for clean stuff or blues, but mostly at rehearsals I tend to use BOSS GT-10 straight into console, so. virtually, I have any amp possible.
Also I've noticed an increase of noise when switched in neck only\bridge only, I have to turn my noise suppressor in GT-10 up a lot (at 70 versus 40 with Artists).
Maybe it's just situation when guitar, pickups and equipment just don't match with each other, as Zaned have mentioned.
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Thanks, guys!
I've sent a letter to BKP support, maybe they can exchange pickups,
If you bought them directly from BKP, there's a 15 days return (swap or refund) policy.
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Thanks, guys!
I've sent a letter to BKP support, maybe they can exchange pickups,
If you bought them directly from BKP, there's a 15 days return (swap or refund) policy.
I've ordered mine at 15th August. I'm living in Israel, so I've received them only 31th August, so 15 days are passed so far. It would be great if BKP will agree with exchange pickups for another set after much longer period then 15 days.
And just for proof what I'm talking about I've recorder the same version of "Wonderful Slippery Thing" that I've did earlier and posted here, so you can hear the difference, and notice things that I've told I don't like.
Recorded with the same gear and effect, though volume balance between track might be different.
Looking forward for your input!
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11015179
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Thanks, guys!
I've sent a letter to BKP support, maybe they can exchange pickups,
If you bought them directly from BKP, there's a 15 days return (swap or refund) policy.
I've ordered mine at 15th August. I'm living in Israel, so I've received them only 31th August, so 15 days are passed so far. It would be great if BKP will agree with exchange pickups for another set after much longer period then 15 days.
And just for proof what I'm talking about I've recorder the same version of "Wonderful Slippery Thing" that I've did earlier and posted here, so you can hear the difference, and notice things that I've told I don't like.
Recorded with the same gear and effect, though volume balance between track might be different.
Looking forward for your input!
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11015179
I think your ears are WRONG!. The second demo sounds way clearer and just better to me than the first one.
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I think your ears are WRONG!. The second demo sounds way clearer and just better to me than the first one.
Why my ears are wrong? I agree with you, that Abraxas sound clearer than Artists,
but at the same time fizzy in bass notes in riff - take a notice, and not that fat... I'm ready to sacrifice some clearance to power and fatness. Maybe I should have buy Cold Sweat\Holy Diver combo... :?
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I agree the abraxas sounds soooo much clearer, juicier, just miles better!
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I agree the abraxas sounds soooo much clearer, juicier, just miles better!
Hmmm...maybe I'll give them a try one more time...
But what about the noise? Why Abraxas is much noisier than Artist, what is the reason? Because of higher output?
Pickup covers?
When I crank up noise suppressor level it kills all the sound :?
And without suppressor it is noisy as radio, even at clean presets I can hear slight "shhhhhh", distorted even worse :x
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...wiring...did u earth the pickups properly, e.g. with a lead from the pots to the bridge / trem i there is one etc
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...wiring...did u earth the pickups properly, e.g. with a lead from the pots to the bridge / trem i there is one etc
Good call, I was thinking the same.
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...wiring...did u earth the pickups properly, e.g. with a lead from the pots to the bridge / trem i there is one etc
I did it exactly like PRS pups were wired (according to BKP wiring diagram with lead colours),
so it goes like "earth" wire from both pickups goes to tone pot, them lead from tone pot to volume pot, and from volume to output jack. I don't have trem, it's stoptail version of Custom 22.
By the way - why BKP has 4 wires (black, red, green and white - soldered together) while PRS - only 3 wires (black, red and white)?
What is the "green" one? And if I will wire pickup without green one as PRS does?
I've soldered Artists back to check if it was my solder is bad, or joint... noise is gone :?
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Keep the green and white together as they are one hot and one cold from each coil that puts them in series! disconnect the green and they wont work! if the Abraxas have a large offset between the coil windings you will experience some noise, I no longer have my Abraxas and can't remember what mine were like for noise, regarding your sound (tone) problems PRS pickups are not scatterwound (from memory) so the BKPs are always going to sound more open than the machine wound pups! some like it this way some don't, it is different and can take some time to adjust to this 'new' sound, I'm not a fan of A4 magnets for high gain I think that AV covers it better cutting though the mix etc! these are only my views as many like them! the change that you have made in pups will really show when you do a live gig, you will know if your happy with your sound then, if not change back to the PRS pups, I still use SDs as well as BKPs and like them both, they are very different.
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By the way - why BKP has 4 wires (black, red, green and white - soldered together) while PRS - only 3 wires (black, red and white)?
What is the "green" one? And if I will wire pickup without green one as PRS does?
The 4 wires are from the 4 ends of the 2 coils.
Standard wiring for a BKP needs green & white soldered together, then the 2 coils are in series. For coil-splitting, green & white are connected to a mini-switch or push-pull pot.
PRS joins the same two wires together, but at the pickup end. Then they have just one wire (the red, I think?) connected to that joined pair, for coil-splitting.
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Thanks, guy, now I see.
BKP uses almost same colour code as PRS, only green wire is added (wired with green).
I wrote Tim yesterday, and he said that there is no problem to swap pickups for another set.
I think I'll go with Cold Sweat neck (which I dig in my Washburn) and Holy Diver bridge.
Also Tim said that scatter wound is not a reason for additional noise, so maybe it was a soldering, or pickups themselves have such character, dunno.
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I've never had noise trouble even with the high output buckers like MM, c-bomb and PK with high gain sounds, when earthed properly they are quiet.
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I don't know if the Crawler is reckoned to be high output ( I say medium tot high), but I never had a quieter pickup.
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Thanks for reply, folks!
I've sent pickups back to BKP, let's wait for their decision,
if all will be Ok, I'll swap them for Holy Diver set.
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Hi, everybody!
Yesterday I've received Holydiver set and installed it,
but I'm not sure I did it right.
I've made my wiring according to this
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/downloads/schematics/general/humbuckers/5_way_rotary_tone_selector.pdf
So my wires at the switch goes like (from left to right):
Treble pickup - Black\Red\Green+White (PRS was Black\Red\White)
Bass pickup - Black\Red\Green+White (PRS was Black\Red\White)
(see picture attached)
It means that PRS has same color code as BKP?
But here I've found another scheme
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17536.0
It goes
Treble pickup - Red\Green+White\Black (PRS was Black\Red\White)
Bass pickup - Black\Green+White\Red (PRS was Black\Red\White)
I've made a mistake?
Because I hear more noise in humbucker-only positions, and they sounds more thinner than in-between position of rotary switch (same was with Abraxas).
Please, help me figure out have I made it right or wrong.
Thank you!
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Hmmm - from looking at the switch I cannot immediately see a mistake.
Try the following: desolder the green/white connections of both pickups and temporarily tape them off. Do the straight humbucking tones now sound as they should - I mean loud and full with almost no hum? If no then you need to get out the digital multimeter (DMM) to check the pickup's DC resistance. Measure between red and black. The neck pup should have between 7 and 8 kohms, the bridge between 14 and 15 kohms.
If they sound as they should, add the green/white connection of one pickup. Does that pickup now sound different in the straight humbucking position? If yes, there is something wrong with the switch. Wire the pickup temporarily directly to the volume pot to confirm.
If no, proceed with the green/white connection of the other pickup. Does that pickup now sound different in the straight humbucking position? If yes, do the same check as before.
I have installed a Holydiver bridge and a Cold Sweat neck in my PRS Custom with the modern style rotary switch. The green/white goes where the white wire of the PRS pickup was. Same with the red/black ones. The switch works as intended. BTW: I guess you specified in your order with BKP that the pickups were for a PRS so they came with the correct magnet stagger?
Cheers Stephan
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Do the straight humbucking tones now sound as they should - I mean loud and full with almost no hum?
BTW - the best way to check this is to A/B with another humbucker equipped guitar.
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Hi, Stephan!
Thanks for an advice!
I just have tried alternative combination I've posted, found here on the forum - and seems that everything worked fine, noise is gone in all positions, switch works as intended. I'll check everything out later one more time.
Maybe PRS changed their switch version over the years, mine is 2004 year of production.
When I've ordered pickups - ordered with magnet flip for PRS.
I've suggested Tim to add another wiring diagram with this combo, so buyers would have an option\solution for different PRS switches.
Have a nice holiday!
Kirill.
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Hi Kirill,
Sounds you have sorted it now.
BTW: how do you like the pickups?
Cheers Stephan
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Stephan, I'm in the "find the sweet spot" quest yet,
but as far as I can say - Holydivers are "improved PRS Artist" pickups,
clearer, more articulate, with better harmonics, in terms of an EQ they are pretty similar, just HD has more high-end roll off, it's less harsh pickup.
Still looking for a spot which would give me good high output\enough wood in the sound character.
I'll write more as soon as I will finish guitar setup and find the "sweet spot".
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After two weeks with HolyDivers I ended up swapping them for Cold Sweat/Nailbomb combo from my Washburn, and HolyDivers now installed instead of them. And now I'm satisfied, I have a nice ammount of aggression and punch in PRS, and added mids for mids-lacking Washburn.
Keeping to wonder, that Cold Sweat is realy amazing pickup, followed by Nailbomb.
I like HD in Washburn also, though they are drier sounding than CS\NB :)
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Updates: I've ended with Cold Sweat set, and I really dig it, amazing, articulate and crunchy tone :D
Recorded a little demo for you, guys
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=26432.0