Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Dmoney on August 25, 2011, 10:27:43 PM

Title: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 25, 2011, 10:27:43 PM
Hello all...

I made this recently... a 50watt 'crunch only' SLO based amp.
I've attached the schem of what I've made, the sepia bits are the lead channel parts I have left out. I also sacked off the loop.

The amp has less gain than I would imagine, I've done some reading up and I'm wondering if I should change the 500K gain pot to a 1M? I vaguely remember something about the lead channel loading the clean channel gain stage, or something... I really can't remember in detail. I don't understand that fully, but I think a 1M pot at full rotation would get me more distortion than the 500K at full rotation...

am i right? I'm on nightshifts and im no pro anyway!


Getting some noise in the early stages too. It's in the high F's. The 'bright switch' in the schem reduces it. I also had a go at putting the 68K grid stop fron the 1st stage directly onto the 2nd stage grid... the noise was still present there (with max gain and max master vol) but at a much lower level. I also had a go at putting an 80uf filter cap in parallel with the 47uf filter for that stage, but that had no effect. I've tried moving wires around the pot and the noise gets no better and no worse. hmmmm.
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 26, 2011, 09:21:14 AM
just stuck in a 1M gain pot in place of the 500K. had the desired effect. woop!
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 26, 2011, 11:56:18 PM
Here it is...
still needs a little tonal tweaking but it sounds good. might just need a *touch* more drive.

I have noticed that the PT has a kind of ticking noise coming from inside it when the amp is running and this is getting into the audio somehow.
With the amp in standby there is no noise. Standby in this amp is a DPDT switch cutting either side of the main secondary before the rectifier. The rectifier is a 4xUF5408 full wave with snubbing caps. With the standby in the operational postition something starts to have a highish pitched hum, and its getting amplified.

Toe-Knee suggested trying a shielded socket on V1.
Any more ideas?

Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 27, 2011, 12:25:56 AM
actually!

the noise isn't coming from the PT. it sounds like the filter caps are vibrating, its like a fast ticking noise. I don't think its coming from the switches. I can't tell if its coming from all the filter caps. It's really hard to pinpoint. It's not the IEC arcing...

hmmmm
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 27, 2011, 10:54:55 AM
Some more pics. I only have a camera on my macbook currently! photobooth is not the way forward!

So... I tried poping out the HT fuse, and that stops the noise....
So I'm assuming something after the fuse is the issue. So, not a problem with the first stage of filtering, something from the choke onwards???? then again, with the fuse out the power supply isn't loaded right? so it might not mean much.

here are some gut shots. still a bit of a work in progress. I HATE noise!
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 27, 2011, 10:58:23 AM
more...
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: HTH AMPS on August 27, 2011, 12:03:15 PM
shielded wire from the input jack to the grid of the first stage (minimum).

if you still have problems, a 100pF cap on the first stage between the plate and cathode should kill any HF squeeling.

after that, I'd start using shielded wire on subsequent stage's to the grids.

Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 27, 2011, 12:11:12 PM
all done. all checked. though the cap I used is 10pf. moving wires around makes no difference either. the gain hiss is low and there is very little if nothing in the way of heater hum. holding a shield over v1 makes no difference. you can hear it, like an almost mechanical noise when the amp is on and no input, and with all the preamp valves pulled. it sounds like its coming from the filter caps but im not sure
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: HTH AMPS on August 27, 2011, 12:34:01 PM
the sound you describe is the same one I've experienced when the filter caps are running close/slightly-over their rated voltage.

might be a bad-cap right out of the box - did you form them or just turn the amp on with full voltages?  you're generally ok not to form new caps, but its possible you have a bad one.
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 27, 2011, 12:59:25 PM
ok. cheers.
I don't think the voltage will be an issue. I went with the 220uf 350v in series for the first 2 stages. the others are 47uf and either 450 or 500s.

I might check some joints, failing that what is the best way to root out a bad cap?
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Frank on August 27, 2011, 09:17:13 PM
Didn't see a PSU on the schematic but I assume there's a standby switch - does this ticking happen on standby as well as when the amp's running? Is it worse on standby?

Ticking might mean something is arcing, maybe a bad cap with a tiny fault internally.
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: HTH AMPS on August 27, 2011, 09:34:17 PM
are the caps definitely orientated correctly?

Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 28, 2011, 01:24:57 AM
the caps are correctly placed. the sounds doesn't happen when in standby. the standy cuts the ht winding right at the output of the pt.
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: HTH AMPS on August 28, 2011, 07:32:41 PM
the caps are correctly placed. the sounds doesn't happen when in standby. the standy cuts the ht winding right at the output of the pt.


I still say 'bad cap' - replace them one at a time is the easy way.

Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 29, 2011, 08:42:16 PM
I THINK I've narrowed it down.
If I pull the fuse after the 1st filter stage, I don't get the tick.

If I disconnect the OT primary CT from the output of the fuse
Disconnect the voltage divider for the elevated heater ref after the second stage, and disconnect the link to the 10K/3W dropping resistor and fire up the amp..

I get the ticking. defo not from the choke, and I'm pretty sure its from the 2nd stage filter caps. The ticking is quieter with the divider disconnected, but it's still there. So... I'm guessing it's one of those two caps... now I just need some spares
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on August 30, 2011, 12:58:27 PM
just to be complete, I replaced the choke with a couple of parallel resistor to get about 500K at 7watts.

can still hear the noise inside the caps. I re attached the elevated heater reference divider and that made the ticking worse. So yeah. The ticking always seems to be there, just gets worse when you add stuff after that stage.

hopefully new caps will turn up tomorrow.

EDIT: scratch some of that. With no HT fuse I can actually hear the first 2 caps making the noise, though really quiet.
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on September 01, 2011, 07:02:27 PM
ok.

I'm waiting on two more caps.
I swapped two out (2nd stage) and added some voltage balancing resistors again but the noise is the same.

I also thought the rectifier diodes might be an issue since they took a bit to heat and get the solder flowing and they are cramped together a bit, so i replaced them with some spare 1N4007's with the snubbing caps and carefully soldered them in place. This made no difference to the ticking/noise.

so next it's the wait for the 2 caps I need to swap out the 1st filter stage.
might also get some spare switches, I think if the 1st stage getting swapped doesn't solve the issue, the standby switch is the last think to try.
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: HTH AMPS on September 02, 2011, 12:36:28 PM
is there any ticking in the PT with all the secondary taps isolated from the circuit? - might be the PT.
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on September 02, 2011, 01:18:02 PM
If i put my ear to the PT I can hear it hum, but the ticking doesn't seem to be in there. though the hum and the ticking noise seem related, but then they are both probably related to the mains.

I changed all the caps. No Difference.

Soooo. the only things left to swap at that end of the chassis are the switches, and maybe using a different rectifier again. My rectifier diodes are squashed together a bit, maybe using a discreet bridge rectifier with snubbers might help? I can mount that on the chassis and give it some space.

I've started to wonder if its just me being over the top.


EDIT: when I say all the caps, I mean the first 4 making the first 2 filter stages.
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on September 08, 2011, 05:18:40 PM



I JUST GOT THIS FIXED WOOOOOOOOO!
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: jpfamps on September 08, 2011, 05:30:24 PM
So what was it?

Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: HTH AMPS on September 08, 2011, 05:50:03 PM
So what was it?



yep, enquiring minds want to know.

Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on September 08, 2011, 06:14:13 PM
I think it was the placement of the rectifier. It was pretty jammed into a cramped space on the board.

I did try replacing the diodes are one point, which didn't do anything.
after trying everything else, i got some tag strip and built the full wave with UF5408's on it and ran flying leads to the standby switch and the 1st filter stage.

problem solved. No ticking. The snubbing caps I had were cut too short to fit the tag strip though, but its still pretty quiet.
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Transcend on September 08, 2011, 06:15:29 PM
glad its working.

Now

Clips or it still ticks!
Title: Re: Amp Advice
Post by: Dmoney on September 08, 2011, 06:20:06 PM
glad its working.

Now

Clips or it still ticks!


hahah! i'll try!