Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Spiteface on August 26, 2011, 06:19:29 PM
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Might seem like a bizarre question, but it has been on my mind the last few days.
As you may or may not know, earlier this year I bought an Edwards Les Paul Custom (in white) copy second hand, which is fantastic. Thing is, it wasn't all stock.
Most ESP Edwards LP-style guitars come equipped with Seymour Duncan pickups - a 59 neck and a JB bridge. The previous owner did not like the JB and replaced it with a BK Nailbomb. I don't mind the sound of it, but I'm curious to know how different the sounds of each are.
Here comes the second part of my question - I'm actually considering changing out both pickups anyway at some point down the road, so I thought I'd ask this while I'm here. One of the reasons I bought this White LP-style guitar was because I'm a huge Manic Street Preachers/James Dean Bradfield fan, and I also dig Steve Jones' sound in the Sex pistols. Bradfield's main Les Paul he plays in the Manics these days is a 70's LP custom (signed by Steve Jones on the back, oddly enough), with what are believed to be SD Alnico II Pros, although I have never heard him confirm this himself, just what other fans say he's told them when he was asked about pickups.
Anyway, here's some examples of his main guitar in action to give an idea of what I'm after:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-PbWixiP5o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWuo6g2NuMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3WXr_re0zY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljwWdw-Oucg
Someone on a Manics board I frequent actually said they emailed Tim himself and asked about this and he apparently said Riff Raffs (which I have in my Epi Dot and they sound great) would do it, but I'm open to suggestions...
Would covers make a difference? I think I read around here that Tim tends to wind pickups a bit differently to compensate for a cover, but I haven't decided whether or not to have any new pickups I get with covers. I'll email Tim nearer the time to decide this though, this is purely a speculative thing right now.
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The nailbomb has a rounder, warmer high end, a more focused mid range and bit more bottom end. Overall it is a bit darker and more focused than the JB; however it is exceptionally articulate, especially on fast single notes.
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The nailbomb has a rounder, warmer high end,
Either my JB or my Abomb has a problem then - I found the JB much "warmer" and "rounder" than the Abomb.
a more focused mid range and bit more bottom end. Overall it is a bit darker and more focused than the JB; however it is exceptionally articulate, especially on fast single notes.
I do agree on the "more focused" and "exceptionally articulate" bits.
@OP: as far as I'm concerned, I find theABomb way more aggressive and raw sounding than the JB (which had some nice points but was somewhat muddy and lacking definition when compared to BKPs).
Err, caveat: I don't know much about JBs, but this one is an early 80s "JB-J", and I heard these old ones are a bit different...
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for the tones in those videos you posted, I'd be looking at Rebel Yells or VHIIs.
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for the tones in those videos you posted, I'd be looking at Rebel Yells or VHIIs.
Well, for the first two ones, you should be able to get that kind of tone from a ABomb. On the last one, it does indeed sound more like a RiffRaff to me (possibly VHII or RY - never played these pups so I can't tell).
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I do like the Nailbomb, and can gat fairly close to those two top videos. I was actually considering getting a neck Nailbomb just so I have a "matched" set in there. But I wanted to see if there was anything else I could try in the BK line. Checked out clips of the pickups suggested elsewhere on these forums, sound like they could be worth looking into. I occasionally like to use Fuzz pedals, and you do have to be carefull using Humbuckers with fuzz, so I was thinking maybe something with a lower output than the Nailbomb might be the ticket, sounds like of the suggestions given thus far, the VHIIs might be it.
Nearer the time I am going to pull the trigger on this, I will email Tim and see what he suggests himself. He was spot-on when he recommeded Riff Raffs to me for my Epi Dot last time!
Anyway, thank you guys for answering my questions about this and the Nailbomb/JB thing too!
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Quick bump.
I plugged in my Dot with Riff Raffs for the first time in ages over the weekend, out of curiosity. Accounting for the obvious differences between an LP-style solid body and 335-style semi-hollow, I think another set of Riff Raffs for my LP could be the way to go, for what I'm after, maybe look into the VHIIs if a little more "oomph" is required. I'm not sure if I really need something as high output as the NB or RYs as good as they sound.
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I'd agree with BigB that the Nailbomb is far more aggressive and 'raw' sounding. It is certainly more articulate than the JB but a very different tone.The Holydiver is closer to the JB, though still far more articulate.
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The Holydiver is closer to the JB, though still far more articulate.
Everyone keeps saying this, but I replaced a JB with a HD and the guitar sounds totally different now...
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Yes and no in my opinion. I took a JB out of my Jackson and installed a Holydiver and it could certainly be argued that it sounds like a different (better) guitar in that it is thicker and more articulate, with a different EQ. However, I can also see it as similar to the JB in that it has the 'feel' of a JB in many respects. Both pickups make me think primarily of an 80s Metal tone and in that respect, playing the Holydiver always feels like I'm playing a seriously upgraded JB. It seems to have everything I like about the JB increased tenfold and all of the things I didn't like about the JB have been fixed. I can't imagine anyone who quite likes the JB, not liking the Holydiver. I think the other reason it's compared to a JB a lot is simply because the JB is such an iconic pickup in the world of guitars and is a standard reference point that guitarists can relate to and no other Bareknuckle pickup is closer to the JB than the Holydiver, even though it doesn't sound quite the same because it's so superior.
I just read that last bit back to myself and I'm not sure it makes complete sense but I know what I mean :? :D
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I hope that the the description above of the Holy Diver holds true, as I am planning to switch out my Nailbomb for an HD set.
To the OP: I pulled the JB (newer version) from one of my guitars and replaced it with a Nailbomb. Certainly an upgrade, in terms of dynamics and articulation. The NB is, however, much thicker in the lower mids... while giving up some of the bite in the upper mids. I guess this could be described as sweeter... to me, it seems darker. Soooo, I moved the NB to another, brighter guitar, replacing a DiMarzio Tone Zone. It still has the positive attributes that I previously mentioned, but the darkness is even more apparent. In a nutshell, the NB is a cool pickup... superior in some ways to the JB, but not a comparable tonal signature to the JB. Next, I'll try the Holy Diver and see what that's all about.
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I pulled the JB (newer version) from one of my guitars and replaced it with a Nailbomb. Certainly an upgrade, in terms of dynamics and articulation. The NB is, however, much thicker in the lower mids... while giving up some of the bite in the upper mids. I guess this could be described as sweeter... to me, it seems darker.
Duh ??? There's definitly something borked with my JB then if you find the NB darker, thicker and less bitey - to me it's really the other way round.
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Every Nailbomb I have ever fitted has been v dark and gruff sounding - lots of low mid focus, and whilst it had real top end the focus being in the low mids rather than the high mids (like on JB or HD or PK) makes it still sound too dark and brooding for my own personal tastes.
I haven't liked it in Les Pauls etc although it has sounded better in some superstrats - I have fitted it guitars where it really worked as these guitars maybe had a very bright sound or a lot of upper mids naturally.
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I pulled the JB (newer version) from one of my guitars and replaced it with a Nailbomb. Certainly an upgrade, in terms of dynamics and articulation. The NB is, however, much thicker in the lower mids... while giving up some of the bite in the upper mids. I guess this could be described as sweeter... to me, it seems darker.
Duh ??? There's definitly something borked with my JB then if you find the NB darker, thicker and less bitey - to me it's really the other way round.
I dont have tonnes of experience with the JB but I'd say
JB - brighter- thinner - bitey
NB darker-thicker- more agressive
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The NB is, however, much thicker in the lower mids... while giving up some of the bite in the upper mids. I guess this could be described as sweeter... to me, it seems darker.
In a nutshell, the NB is a cool pickup... superior in some ways to the JB, but not a comparable tonal signature to the JB.
Every Nailbomb I have ever fitted has been v dark and gruff sounding - lots of low mid focus, and whilst it had real top end the focus being in the low mids rather than the high mids (like on JB or HD or PK) makes it still sound too dark and brooding for my own personal tastes.
finally someone agrees with me! :D
same impression I had since the first time I played the bomb (had it for 6 months)
it had a very sharp high end and THICK low mids, but always lacked upper mids, which is the opposite of what I expected
tonewise, it was more like a miracle man bridge x miracle man neck crossover than like a holy diver or JB
the holy diver in the same les paul was quite brighter due to the ton of upper mids, although it has less high end
no near as hot and edgy, but quite snappy sounding
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Every Nailbomb I have ever fitted has been v dark and gruff sounding - lots of low mid focus, and whilst it had real top end the focus being in the low mids rather than the high mids (like on JB or HD or PK) makes it still sound too dark and brooding for my own personal tastes.
finally someone agrees with me! :D
same impression I had since the first time I played the bomb (had it for 6 months)
it had a very sharp high end and THICK low mids, but always lacked upper mids, which is the opposite of what I expected
tonewise, it was more like a miracle man bridge x miracle man neck crossover than like a holy diver or JB
the holy diver in the same les paul was quite brighter due to the ton of upper mids, although it has less high end
no near as hot and edgy, but quite snappy sounding
Well - I do, too! The Nailbomb sounds quite dark in my Single Cut. But the guitar is a dark sounding one to begin with, even though acoustically it has a brittle high end on top of a rather dark midrange color. It sounds very good though. As soon as I got a bit time on my hands I will swap the NB for my white HD bridge which at the moment is on the bench doing nothing. Seems like it could be a better fit for the Single Cut.
Cheers Stephan
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As soon as I got a bit time on my hands I will swap the NB for my white HD bridge which at the moment is on the bench doing nothing. Seems like it could be a better fit for the Single Cut.
I did this swap just to see and it confirmed almost everything Eric said. The Diver sounds fatter with more high midrange than the Nailbomb. Indeed it turned out to be a better fit for the guitar - it sounds way bigger now. The only thing I do not agree with is that the Nailbomb is more powerful - to me they are about equal.
So now the Nailbomb is relegated to the substitution bench. I could imagine it being well suited to balance an overly bright guitar with lots of high midrange.
Cheers Stephan
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Well I will have to see how the Nailbomb A5 bridge sounds in the ESPNTII whenever it gets finished. I will not have the opportunity to hear what the JB sounds like in since it will be removed once the guitar is received from the dealer!!!! I have JBs in two other guitars and it sounds good in my cheap Dean Z (Mahagony neck/body with a so called maple top) and one in my Ibanez RG3120 (Mahogany body/maple top with maple neck) and it sounds ok, but has that mid-spike that is even more apparent than with the Dean Z. I will be swapping it out with a Suhr DSH+ and if I do not like that, I will be exploring BKPs for the bridge PUP.