Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Nephilim on September 11, 2011, 07:07:42 PM

Title: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 11, 2011, 07:07:42 PM
I'm looking to upgrade my Line 6 Spider III to an all-tube amp for metal music. I'm looking for something that won't break the bank (MESA Rectifier) but something that is also not a piece of cheap garbage (my current amp, lol). I'll be using this amp for rehearsals and to gig with, in small to moderate sized venues. Any ideas, anyone???
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Sancho on September 11, 2011, 07:09:28 PM
"Metal" is a very loose description. Saxon sound nothing like Machine Head, for instance.
However, a Peavey 6505 can do a lot of things and won't break the bank. Check out the new Laney Ironheart as well.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Alex on September 11, 2011, 07:12:52 PM
USA: Used Peavey 5150/6505 or 5150-II/6505+
UK: Used Marshall JVM

Both very versatile. Not saying there aren't any other options, but those two are good and often go for very good prices in the respective countries.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 11, 2011, 07:17:59 PM
More the extreme type of metal. Not to say 'Doom Metal'. More or less something that really hits you in the face when you're playing fast riffs, and sounds very melodic when soloing. I was actually considering the Peavey 6505+, but I want to see other choices as well. Just checked that Laney out: Seems a very nice amp :D

And regarding the US/UK thing: How come you recommend one for one country and another for the other. Can't you buy both wherever you are? I'm in the UK, btw.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Philly Q on September 11, 2011, 07:30:25 PM
And regarding the US/UK thing: How come you recommend one for one country and another for the other. Can't you buy both wherever you are? I'm in the UK, btw.

It's due to where they're built, and therefore whether they have to be imported by the distributors, which bumps up the costs considerably.

Marshalls are made in the UK and are relatively affordable here, whereas Mesas (for example) cost an absolute fortune in the UK but are ten-a-penny in the US (exaggeration!).

Having said that, most guitar equipment seems to be relatively more expensive in the UK, compared with the US, anyway.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: gordiji on September 11, 2011, 07:31:54 PM
marshall's being british made are v.g. value in uk, reletively more expensive in u.s.   vice/versa for u.s made amps,especially things like mesa's which are reasonably priced in us.
i'd also look at a jvm for bang for buck.( ed.disregard as philly beat me to it while i was posting)
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 11, 2011, 07:38:23 PM
How does the Marshall JVM compare to the Peavey 6505+? I'm pretty much a valve-amp virgin, lolz. I know quite a bit when it comes to tubes (which is weird), but regarding the amp themselves, I'm clueless. I know I'm definitely looking for an amp that hosts 6L6s. Can the Marshall change from the stock KKs to 6L6s, or is that a no go?
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: HTH AMPS on September 11, 2011, 11:09:46 PM
you won't go far wrong with a 5150-type amp for metal.

fwiw, I had a 6505 and a 6505+ and preferred the latter for it's tighter overdriven tone.  there was definitely a substantial difference in the tone.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Telerocker on September 11, 2011, 11:11:34 PM
5150, Laboga Hector, Rectifier.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: ericsabbath on September 11, 2011, 11:35:18 PM
the 6505 is hard to beat

maybe the new 1x12 combo version, which is veeery cheap  :D

jet city makes some great sounding amps for pretty cheap as well
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: JacksonRR on September 12, 2011, 03:42:24 AM
It's a biased opinion, but I have to vote 5150/6505. One of the best metal amps stock and an absolute fire breather modded. Common contraptions to add to it are a tubescreamer sort of overdrive(not a boutique one, you want that mid push and the bass cut) and an EQ in the loop for further tweakage.

Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Dmoney on September 12, 2011, 08:20:35 AM
Don't overlook the Laney GH100L or GH100TI. I've know of few people with those and they are pretty darn cheap in the uK. not very much versatility though.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Roobubba on September 12, 2011, 08:36:58 AM
I have a 5150-II that I bought here in the UK second hand with 4x12 cab for about 700 quid.

Definitely look into the 5150-II/6505+ (identical amps) - stunning piece of kit!

In fact, if you hold on long enough, I might be selling mine to make space for a DAR FBM-100 but that's probably more than a year away at the moment!

Roo
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: hunter on September 12, 2011, 08:48:20 AM
What about this?
(http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/Mini_Rectifier_25/slide_images/Mini_Recto_Slide_1.jpg)
 :D
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Philly Q on September 12, 2011, 11:45:13 AM
What about this?
(http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/Mini_Rectifier_25/slide_images/Mini_Recto_Slide_1.jpg)
 :D


I'm looking for something that won't break the bank


Can the bank handle £1,100?
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 12, 2011, 11:50:15 AM
OK, now I'm in a dilemma. There's a Peavey 5150 combo going for £399 on Ebay, but the reverb doesn't work; and another starting at £380, but it hasn't been used in years. What are your opinions? Or should I stay as far away from them as possible? I'll list their descriptions below:

This is the one starting at £380...


This was packed away for some years until house move brought it to light again.
Not sure when it was aquired but it was part of some part exchange deal.
I am a keyboard player hence did,t know much about it until recently that it is a guitar
collectors dream peice of gear and highly sort after. Nice, tried it out but dam things
too loud for me and seriously, can i say it, its awesome and frightening in sound.

Looks in good nick and i can remmember being told it has never been gigged. Thats all
I can say.

I can ship it any where in uk or europe if need be.

Two 12 inch speakers, 60 watt valve. Sounds much heavier than the 120 watt head version something to do with the  wireing I am told.

Has manual with it and foot switch, nice

[/b]
This is the one going for £399...

This 60W combo has great sounds, and is built to strict specifications set up by Mr Edward Van Halen. Features a footswitchable lead/rhythm channel select. Master controls include a 3-band EQ, resonance, and presence. Rhythm channel utilizes pre/post gain controls and bright/crunch switches. Lead channel has pre/post gain controls only. 2 Sheffield 1200 12" speakers in an enclosed-back cabinet. .

The 5150 series amplifiers and enclosures are the result of extensive research and development with guitar legend Edward Van Halen to produce the ultimate products for guitarists. The 5150 212 Combo delivers super rock crunch, harmonic-rich sustain, and screaming drive like you've never heard before.

Features

60W
5 - 12AX7 preamp tubes
2 – 6LC power amp tubes
2 - 12" speakers
2 footswitchable channels
3-band EQ
Resonance
Presence
 The amp has hardly been gigged or abused.  There are no rips or tears on the covering. The guy who had this before me hardly used it and unfortunately I haven’t used it much.

This amp absolutely rocks and the tubes are awesome.   the reverb doesn’t work and wasn,t working when i bought it ,i haven,t checked it as i use outboard effecte through the loop.


Footswitch and Cover is included

Pick up preferred or can deliver within 50 miles for a fee


What are your honest opinions? I've also been eyeing up the Peavey 6505+ Combo as well.ell.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 12, 2011, 11:53:42 AM
OK, now I'm in a dilemma. There's a Peavey 5150 combo going for £399 on Ebay, but the reverb doesn't work; and another starting at £380, but it hasn't been used in years. What are your opinions? Or should I stay as far away from them as possible? I'll list their descriptions below:

This is the one starting at £380...


This was packed away for some years until house move brought it to light again.
Not sure when it was aquired but it was part of some part exchange deal.
I am a keyboard player hence did,t know much about it until recently that it is a guitar
collectors dream peice of gear and highly sort after. Nice, tried it out but dam things
too loud for me and seriously, can i say it, its awesome and frightening in sound.

Looks in good nick and i can remmember being told it has never been gigged. Thats all
I can say.

I can ship it any where in uk or europe if need be.

Two 12 inch speakers, 60 watt valve. Sounds much heavier than the 120 watt head version something to do with the  wireing I am told.

Has manual with it and foot switch, nice


This is the one going for £399...

This 60W combo has great sounds, and is built to strict specifications set up by Mr Edward Van Halen. Features a footswitchable lead/rhythm channel select. Master controls include a 3-band EQ, resonance, and presence. Rhythm channel utilizes pre/post gain controls and bright/crunch switches. Lead channel has pre/post gain controls only. 2 Sheffield 1200 12" speakers in an enclosed-back cabinet. .

The 5150 series amplifiers and enclosures are the result of extensive research and development with guitar legend Edward Van Halen to produce the ultimate products for guitarists. The 5150 212 Combo delivers super rock crunch, harmonic-rich sustain, and screaming drive like you've never heard before.

Features

60W
5 - 12AX7 preamp tubes
2 – 6LC power amp tubes
2 - 12" speakers
2 footswitchable channels
3-band EQ
Resonance
Presence
 The amp has hardly been gigged or abused.  There are no rips or tears on the covering. The guy who had this before me hardly used it and unfortunately I haven’t used it much.

This amp absolutely rocks and the tubes are awesome.   the reverb doesn’t work and wasn,t working when i bought it ,i haven,t checked it as i use outboard effecte through the loop.


Footswitch and Cover is included

Pick up preferred or can deliver within 50 miles for a fee


What are your honest opinions? I've also been eyeing up the Peavey 6505+ Combo as well.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Roobubba on September 12, 2011, 02:20:52 PM
I haven't tried the combo in person, though I know a few people who've got one and make awesome sounds with it.
Personally, I like the utter fatness and fullness of the 120W head version. There's no experience quite like playing through a full-stack (or larger!). :)
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: dave_mc on September 12, 2011, 04:48:51 PM
And regarding the US/UK thing: How come you recommend one for one country and another for the other. Can't you buy both wherever you are? I'm in the UK, btw.

It's due to where they're built, and therefore whether they have to be imported by the distributors, which bumps up the costs considerably.

Marshalls are made in the UK and are relatively affordable here, whereas Mesas (for example) cost an absolute fortune in the UK but are ten-a-penny in the US (exaggeration!).

Having said that, most guitar equipment seems to be relatively more expensive in the UK, compared with the US, anyway.

exactly, couldn't have put that better myself.

i'd say 5150/6505 assuming you can get one for a decent price.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: JacksonRR on September 12, 2011, 04:52:28 PM
The 5150 combo doesn't have the 5150/6505 preamp, it's the 5150II/6505+ pre. Both fine sounding flavors. Not sure how much you care about reverb, but if the rest works like it should, get it and sort it out later. I would.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: JacksonRR on September 12, 2011, 04:55:33 PM
I haven't tried the combo in person, though I know a few people who've got one and make awesome sounds with it.
Personally, I like the utter fatness and fullness of the 120W head version. There's no experience quite like playing through a full-stack (or larger!). :)

Have you tried running a line from the "line out" into your bass player's rig? It's awesome. Put on a diaper first though.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Alex on September 12, 2011, 05:32:19 PM
You can get a JVM 100 Watt Top for less than that Mini Rectifier in the UK. That, I think, says it mostly. Mesa's are the worst when it comes to the extra markup in Europe. Peavey are more as well, but you can sometimes get good deals (which is why I used a 5150 for many years).

At the moment ebay prices are low (typical for summer), things will get more expensive from now on until Christmas. IME you get the cheapest deals during summer and the biggest amount of good gear on offer in December/January, when people shift a lot of gear.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Roobubba on September 12, 2011, 05:55:10 PM
I haven't tried the combo in person, though I know a few people who've got one and make awesome sounds with it.
Personally, I like the utter fatness and fullness of the 120W head version. There's no experience quite like playing through a full-stack (or larger!). :)

Have you tried running a line from the "line out" into your bass player's rig? It's awesome. Put on a diaper first though.

haha no need, I have a home-made 2x15"/2x8" (4x12 size) cab to handle the low end :D
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Philly Q on September 12, 2011, 05:56:41 PM
At the moment ebay prices are low (typical for summer), things will get more expensive from now on until Christmas. IME you get the cheapest deals during summer and the biggest amount of good gear on offer in December/January, when people shift a lot of gear.

That's an interesting observation - you reckon it's seasonal, and not just the general state of the economy? 

It's definitely true that prices are low, I've been stung on some recent sales.  Of course, it also means there should be lots of bargains to be had - but I'm still stupid enough to pay over the odds :( .
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: JacksonRR on September 12, 2011, 06:13:06 PM
I haven't tried the combo in person, though I know a few people who've got one and make awesome sounds with it.
Personally, I like the utter fatness and fullness of the 120W head version. There's no experience quite like playing through a full-stack (or larger!). :)

Have you tried running a line from the "line out" into your bass player's rig? It's awesome. Put on a diaper first though.

haha no need, I have a home-made 2x15"/2x8" (4x12 size) cab to handle the low end :D

 :lol: I'm playing through the Randall XL cab with the 2x12 1x15 config! Here's to selfish guitar tone!  :drink:


Another good way for used gear to enter or leave your life is through Craig's list or some equivalent. I hadn't noticed eBay patterns, but I always find that my stuff gets sold much faster with no hassle right near the start of college semesters. I'd imagine the opposite would be true for buyers. Lot's of gear goes in and out during schooling, take advantage of it. I've bought from lots of kids just looking to eat for the rest of the term.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Alex on September 12, 2011, 09:07:18 PM
At the moment ebay prices are low (typical for summer), things will get more expensive from now on until Christmas. IME you get the cheapest deals during summer and the biggest amount of good gear on offer in December/January, when people shift a lot of gear.

That's an interesting observation - you reckon it's seasonal, and not just the general state of the economy? 

It's definitely true that prices are low, I've been stung on some recent sales.  Of course, it also means there should be lots of bargains to be had - but I'm still stupid enough to pay over the odds :( .

I'm guessing a bit, but would say, yes, seasonal. More people on vacation in the summer, less on the internet. Towards Christmas people need money (lots of sales) or want gifts (lots of buying). In January people unload stuff they don't need anymore.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: asianaxeman on September 12, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc6TXK71pxY

edit- this is a better clip for metal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F48N3HV3iGo

Laney ironheart looks wicked. loads of features for only 541 quid new (60w version), I'd wait to try that before buying secondhand. The 60w version will be more economical in the long run because you'll only need to change 2 power valves as opposed to 4. If your budget had no limit, then of course, I'd go for anything that says 'Engl'!
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Miek on September 12, 2011, 10:13:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc6TXK71pxY

edit- this is a better clip for metal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F48N3HV3iGo

Laney ironheart looks wicked. loads of features for only 541 quid new (60w version), I'd wait to try that before buying secondhand. The 60w version will be more economical in the long run because you'll only need to change 2 power valves as opposed to 4. If your budget had no limit, then of course, I'd go for anything that says 'Engl'!
Of course Laneys have to be a pain in the ass to get for us Americans :(
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Alex on September 12, 2011, 10:23:19 PM
That Ironheart looks really cool actually. So I could run the 60 Watt at the same low volume like an Orange Thunder 30/Tiny Terror, but actually have a real EQ on it? For almost the same price??? Sounds too good to be real!
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 13, 2011, 02:18:29 PM
The 5150 combo doesn't have the 5150/6505 preamp, it's the 5150II/6505+ pre. Both fine sounding flavors. Not sure how much you care about reverb, but if the rest works like it should, get it and sort it out later. I would.

Sorry that's confused me a bit there, lol. the 5150 doesn't have the 5150 preamp? And you said it's the 51501 II/6505+ preamp? The 5150 II/6505+ has 6 tubes and the 5150/6505 has 5 tubes, am I not right? The 5150 combo also only has 1 shared EQ. Oh and btw,

I've bought the Peavey 5150 2x12 Combo :)

The one with the working reverb of course. What do you guys think? Have I made the right decision? My mate said it was dodgy buying an amp that has been stored away for years. Is that true, or is he just jealous? lol. I've asked him every question I can about the amps condition, so if he's lied about anything, he's required by law to give me a refund. But hey, let's hope it doesn't come to that :)
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Roobubba on September 13, 2011, 02:31:30 PM
Provided it's all working, I'd say you'll be very happy and have an awesome sounding amp!

I'd get an amp tech to check it over - I did this with my 5150-II head when I bought it second hand, as I wanted to be sure it was all okay. I got the tubes changed at this stage too, wasn't too confident about that as it was my first tube amp, and at least this way I knew what was in it.

Enjoy the new amp!
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 13, 2011, 02:50:43 PM
Just spoken to David Lunt in Stockport, He's going to retube it, as well as check it over. He said since it's been stored, the pots might need a good clean, lol.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Sancho on September 13, 2011, 05:26:17 PM
Congrats with the new amp :)
Now all you need is a mate to carry it for you. I had one of those, and heavy doesn't begin to describe the weight. It's like trying to carry a small car...
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: JacksonRR on September 13, 2011, 08:41:53 PM
Congrats on the new amp man!

Here is what FJA says about the 5150 head/combo comparison thing. Sorry for being lazy, but it'd take a bit too long to go through each schematic and write down what values/voltages are different.


The 5150 combo has the following differences:

The 5150 combo is a little like the 5150, a little like the 5150I, and it has a few features of it's own thrown in there

Lead channel more like the 5150II lead channel than the 5150 head

2x12  instead of a  4x12

Biased warmer (different bias circuit)

Lead channel has a little less gain

60 watts instead of 120

Combo has reverb

Voiced darker

Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Telerocker on September 14, 2011, 12:26:56 AM
Congrats! You can shake the walls now.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 14, 2011, 02:52:11 AM
Well, I highly doubt a little less gain is going to make much difference with the amount they have on tap anyways haha.   And it has wheels :). I actually haven't exactly bought it yet. He's going to see if anyone bids, and if not, it's mine for £380 :) 12 HOURS TO GO!
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: JacksonRR on September 14, 2011, 05:18:29 AM
I wasn't saying you were in for a bad time. It's gonna rock.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 14, 2011, 12:36:50 PM
I wasn't saying you were in for a bad time. It's gonna rock.

Yeah, don't worry. I wasn't thinking you was. And you said it was biased hotter and it is voiced darker. Is the reason why the guy said it sounds heavier that the head version?
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: JacksonRR on September 14, 2011, 01:43:55 PM
Yup. Don't be afraid to swap speakers though. Some people love em, some hate em. I guess that goes for most combos though....
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nephilim on September 14, 2011, 01:56:35 PM
If I don;t like them, I'll prob get a good set of V30s :). I'll give 'em month though, just incase they need breaking in.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Roobubba on September 14, 2011, 02:36:57 PM
The Sheffield 1200s that come in those are really surprisingly decent speakers. I'd say if you like their voicing, stick with them.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Sancho on September 15, 2011, 08:34:31 AM
I liked the tone of the combo better than the tone of the head I owned before. The amp works together with the speakers very well.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: Nadz1lla on September 19, 2011, 05:16:13 PM
Try this set of videos on YouTube, they're the "Monsters of Gain" series:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=monsters+of+gain&aq=0

Quite a few good amps in there for metal. Unsurprisingly, the Peavey 6534 really holds it's own against the more expensive amps there, great tone!

I am more interested in the Fryette...but that's for another thread, heh.
Title: Re: Any advice on good amps for 'Metal' ?
Post by: MDV on September 19, 2011, 05:19:47 PM
Try this set of videos on YouTube, they're the "Monsters of Gain" series:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=monsters+of+gain&aq=0

Quite a few good amps in there for metal. Unsurprisingly, the Peavey 6534 really holds it's own against the more expensive amps there, great tone!

I am more interested in the Fryette...but that's for another thread, heh.

Fryette/VHT are superb. I love my PB CL100EQ, outstanding amp.