Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Ian Price on September 25, 2011, 07:06:55 PM
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Over the last few months I've removed quite a lot of the finish from the neck of my Baja. It could just be me imagining that it has made the acoustic tone of the guitar more lively/vibrant but I'm certain that it has improved it.
Would a similar improvement be heard if I ever decided to either a) get the body refinished (and have nitro rather than poly) or b) just remove all of the existing finish and oil the body (not that likely as I reckon the grain is quite bland).
I love how the guitar feels now that I have nearly sorted the neck - juts looking for further improvement if possible.
Also - this guitar is a keeper so I'm not fussed about any impact on value!
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Just the fact that you're playing it may be the reason it's opened up - I've had electrics that have done that, like an acoustic does.
Personally, I'd leave it as it is and play the snot out of it! :lol:
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Maybe - I haven't really played it that much though, perhaps it's more of a placebo like effect.
If I ever did get a refinish I think I would have to go for some sort of red sparkle :wink:
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Good choice! ;)
Let me know if you want me to bring it down your way sometime...
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talking of instruments opening up, I don't think my mandolin had seen much use when I got it and recently the tone has really settled, its nowhere near as stiff sounding.
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Would a similar improvement be heard if I ever decided to either a) get the body refinished (and have nitro rather than poly) or b) just remove all of the existing finish and oil the body (not that likely as I reckon the grain is quite bland).
I'm not sure I've ever been convinced by the "nitro better than poly" thing, although I do like the look and feel of nitro finishes.
But I am prepared to believe that a thin finish is preferable to a thick one. Some older Fenders - and maybe new ones too - have a thick coat of "plastic" with thick poly over the top. I'm not sure about the Baja but it does seem like a pretty thick finish. That must act as some kind of "blanket" to deaden the resonance and affect the tone.
I've never quite been brave enough to try an oil finish - I like the idea but part of me isn't so keen on the guitar getting all grubby over time. And I do like a bit of colour on a guitar!
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I've never really thought that playing a guitar changes it that much, I suspect it's a psychological thing where as you play the guitar more, you subconciously find out more about the innate tone and realise how to use that tone the way you want.
Maybe. I don't know. Nice weather recently.
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Would a similar improvement be heard if I ever decided to either a) get the body refinished (and have nitro rather than poly) or b) just remove all of the existing finish and oil the body (not that likely as I reckon the grain is quite bland).
I'm not sure I've ever been convinced by the "nitro better than poly" thing, although I do like the look and feel of nitro finishes.
But I am prepared to believe that a thin finish is preferable to a thick one. Some older Fenders - and maybe new ones too - have a thick coat of "plastic" with thick poly over the top. I'm not sure about the Baja but it does seem like a pretty thick finish. That must act as some kind of "blanket" to deaden the resonance and affect the tone.
I've never quite been brave enough to try an oil finish - I like the idea but part of me isn't so keen on the guitar getting all grubby over time. And I do like a bit of colour on a guitar!
My badger has a nice big chip in the back of it and I can tell you, the poly finish is thick.
I'd be interested to see how Ian gets on with a re-finish. Personally, I'd like to take mine back and have it re-finished blonde (as it is) but with nitro, to be more like a 50's blackguard. I suspect it'd be prohibitively expensive and messy to do though, so shan't bother.
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Let me know if you want me to bring it down your way sometime...
I like the sound of this but it could be dangerous!
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Some older Fenders - and maybe new ones too - have a thick coat of "plastic" with thick poly over the top. I'm not sure about the Baja but it does seem like a pretty thick finish. That must act as some kind of "blanket" to deaden the resonance and affect the tone.
I can say from experience that my mid 70s Tele had a very thick finish. Very thick indeed.
My badger has a nice big chip in the back of it and I can tell you, the poly finish is thick.
I'd be interested to see how Ian gets on with a re-finish. Personally, I'd like to take mine back and have it re-finished blonde (as it is) but with nitro, to be more like a 50's blackguard. I suspect it'd be prohibitively expensive and messy to do though, so shan't bother.
yeah - I reckon my Baja has a thick finish. It certainly feels thick.
Don't hold your breath on me getting round to doing something as I'm notoriously slow at doing stuff like this! Cost will also be an issue as I suspect a nitro finish would be expensive - not sure about the messy part though as I would have nothing to do with it other than placing an order!
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It will be cheaper/easier to buy a replacement body and sell the Badger one on eBay to recoup costs. The guy who sells relic ones on US eBay would be my first port of call...
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It will be cheaper/easier to buy a replacement body and sell the Badger one on eBay to recoup costs. The guy who sells relic ones on US eBay would be my first port of call...
Which Guy is this Dave?
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I don't know about stripping a body - I've done it several times, and I don't think I'd like to say one way or t'other whether the tone changed.
But I can say that stripping the lacquer off the back of a neck does indeed have an effect - much like you describe. I did it to a CIJ strat without taking the neck or strings off, not even bothered to detune it. Took a couple of hours, and the tone changed quite a lot (much to my surprise and, luckily, for the better :lol:). It became a more airy, more vibrant and "springy" sort of tone. This was good because I was trying to get more top-end out of it at the time, it sounds a bit woolly in comparison to my other strats.... Actually, the effect of stripping the back of the neck was MUCH greater than replacing the stock bridge assembly (zinc block etc) with steel stuff. However, it's still nowhere near as bright/airy as my Roadworns are.
I haven't stipped my Baja neck, and probably won't. I have considered stripping the body, but decided against it - I'd be worried about a slight reduction in size, that stuff looks well thick. I understand it is easy(ish) to do - apparently it comes off quite quick and cleanly with the heat-gun method.
Personally I'd go with Dave and say "replacement body" - Philly might have a good supply of them under his bed? (:wink: :lol:)
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It will be cheaper/easier to buy a replacement body and sell the Badger one on eBay to recoup costs. The guy who sells relic ones on US eBay would be my first port of call...
Which Guy is this Dave?
I'm guessing it's these chaps - good workmanship and they're nice to deal with, too:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/mjtagedguitarfinishes (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/mjtagedguitarfinishes)
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Personally I'd go with Dave and say "replacement body" - Philly might have a good supply of them under his bed? (:wink: :lol:)
I have got a couple of Tele bodies, but not vintage style - they're chambered and (block your eyes/ears, Andy....) contoured like Strat bodies for extra playing comfort.
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I have got a couple of Tele bodies, but not vintage style - they're chambered and (block your eyes/ears, Andy....) contoured like Strat bodies for extra playing comfort.
I'd love to replace my '62 reissue tele body with a contoured one. Let me know ifthose ever end up on eBay, I'll do a last minute bid. Then argue about the shipping costs. Then not pay. Then give you negative feeback. Or something like that.
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I have got a couple of Tele bodies, but not vintage style - they're chambered and (block your eyes/ears, Andy....) contoured like Strat bodies for extra playing comfort.
I'd love to replace my '62 reissue tele body with a contoured one. Let me know ifthose ever end up on eBay, I'll do a last minute bid. Then argue about the shipping costs. Then not pay. Then give you negative feeback. Or something like that.
I look forward to it! :lol:
Not planning to sell at the moment, although I have been attempting to reduce my ridiculous "Warmoth mountain". One of the Tele bodies is a really nice one, swamp ash finished in Sunset Orange, it looks excellent - I really must get round to using it sometime.
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I'm guessing it's these chaps - good workmanship and they're nice to deal with, too:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/mjtagedguitarfinishes (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/mjtagedguitarfinishes)
That's the one I was thinking of - you know me too well Phil! :lol:
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I have got a couple of Tele bodies, but not vintage style - they're chambered and (block your eyes/ears, Andy....) contoured like Strat bodies for extra playing comfort.
I'd love to replace my '62 reissue tele body with a contoured one. Let me know ifthose ever end up on eBay, I'll do a last minute bid. Then argue about the shipping costs. Then not pay. Then give you negative feeback. Or something like that.
I look forward to it! :lol:
Not planning to sell at the moment, although I have been attempting to reduce my ridiculous "Warmoth mountain". One of the Tele bodies is a really nice one, swamp ash finished in Sunset Orange, it looks excellent - I really must get round to using it sometime.
Hmmm - interesting. I'm not on the look out for a contoured body but like the sound of a '62 reissue!
I do have the self build proejct I have been working on for an age - perhaps I should just aim to get that body done and see what it's like with my current Baja neck. I'll report back in a few years.
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It will be cheaper/easier to buy a replacement body and sell the Badger one on eBay to recoup costs. The guy who sells relic ones on US eBay would be my first port of call...
Yup, reckon you're right. It's going to be prohibitively expensive to pay someone to do it. Would be ok to do it yourself, but the potential to make a right pigs ear of it is high. Either the stripping or the re-finishing. If I knew I could get the poly off cleanly and easily, I might have a go...
As it stands though, nah. I'll leave it be. It sounds bloody lovely anyhow (FWIW mine has had the laquer taken back on the neck. Dunno what that's done for it tonally as it had new pups at the same time. But it's lovely and smooooth now when it was sticky before...).
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I'd love to replace my '62 reissue tele body with a contoured one. Let me know ifthose ever end up on eBay, I'll do a last minute bid. Then argue about the shipping costs. Then not pay. Then give you negative feeback. Or something like that.
Hmmm, a solid mahogany tele body, routed for P90's with a wrap-around bridge and strat contours... Maybe done in purple burst... That sort of appeals... Maybe a nice maple neck with a rosewood board and black painted headstock *rubs chin*
*giggles like a mad scientist*
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(FWIW mine has had the laquer taken back on the neck. Dunno what that's done for it tonally as it had new pups at the same time. But it's lovely and smooooth now when it was sticky before...).
Yep - this is exactly the reason I took the lacquer off of mine. Have you taken yours off completely or just sanded it to a matt finish? I went a bit mad and took the finish completely off. Maybe I'll regret it one day but it does feel considerably better (and much smoother)
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(FWIW mine has had the laquer taken back on the neck. Dunno what that's done for it tonally as it had new pups at the same time. But it's lovely and smooooth now when it was sticky before...).
Yep - this is exactly the reason I took the lacquer off of mine. Have you taken yours off completely or just sanded it to a matt finish? I went a bit mad and took the finish completely off. Maybe I'll regret it one day but it does feel considerably better (and much smoother)
It's not off completely, just to a matt finish. I didn't want to take it off completely as I worried about it picking up mank from my hands and going black.
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Maybe I got too carried away then. I do like the dirty look though so may rub some coffee into it or something.
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Maybe I got too carried away then. I do like the dirty look though so may rub some coffee into it or something.
Is it just the back of the neck? You've gotta do the fretboard as well for the full effect!
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Maybe I got too carried away then. I do like the dirty look though so may rub some coffee into it or something.
Is it just the back of the neck? You've gotta do the fretboard as well for the full effect!
That's exactly why I haven't done it to mine :lol:
I rubbed mine back a bit, but that's it....
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I've noticed that the Fender Custom Shop's relic jobs on maple boards are getting better all the time - they look really good now, even the "dirty frets".
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Maybe I got too carried away then. I do like the dirty look though so may rub some coffee into it or something.
Is it just the back of the neck? You've gotta do the fretboard as well for the full effect!
I'd not considered this. Maybe I should give it some thought :o
I've noticed that the Fender Custom Shop's relic jobs on maple boards are getting better all the time - they look really good now, even the "dirty frets".
Maybe I should pay a visit to GV to see some recent examples. The relicing wasn't that extensive on my CS Esquire and the CS Strat had a RW board.
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Examples (both sold, unfortunately!):
http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?pid=10742&c=110 (http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?pid=10742&c=110)
http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?pid=10741&c=110 (http://www.guitar-village.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?pid=10741&c=110)
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Well, just to add... On poly you can take-out the finish with a heat gun (never did, but saw some guys doing)... Seems like it's quite easy, just was told to not keep the gun pointed at the same place much time, as will burn the wood...
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Those teles are superb Philly. Would absolutely love to have another CS one day (or maybe even a Bravewood). I'm sure I would like the feel of the board wih no finish but I'm not too keen on trying it myself!
Fernando - me + heat gun + guitar neck = chaos :D
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I meant for the body, but the neck can be done too, I think, but very carefull... But I'd ask a experienced luthier, like Wez or Jonathan before use on neck...