Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: hunter on October 10, 2011, 07:09:12 AM

Title: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 10, 2011, 07:09:12 AM

Hey guys,

I recently acquired a 2005 Charvel Pointy US - amazing guitar and believe it or not, this 80s rocker has become my main guitar, it's just so much fun to rock out on.

I even love the bridge Duncan HB (an TB-14 Custom 5) in it and don't think about changing that one at the moment.

However, on the neck, there seems to be a Duncan Classic Stack STKB-1 right now. I find it bright and thin, although it is a stacked model. My guess is this comes from the fact that there is:
-No tone pot
-a 500K Volume pot

So obviously these are two factors contributing to a bright tone on this SC.

Ideally I would be able to use this pickup to extend the tonal range towards
-Clean picking tones with bell like response
-Neck Lead tones ā la David Gilmour
-Neck Lead tones ā la Richie Blackmore

Output-wise, this neck pickup should be a little less than the TB-14 in the bridge, so they balance out almost even in perceived loudness when switching over, just a tad lower volume on the neck would be ideal.
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 10, 2011, 04:04:44 PM
bump with pic :(

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--CLiX6t0hlg/TnRos4ifRVI/AAAAAAAABqU/-xwP--SJTuY/s720/DSC06939.jpg)
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Twinfan on October 10, 2011, 04:13:04 PM
Have you checked the wiring of the neck stack?  If it's a four conductor, it may be wired up to be split all the time?  I've had stacked coils before and they're usually anything but thin sounding.  I'm also assuming you've checked the pickup height?

You could also wire a capacitor in-line with the pickup for some treble roll off?
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: darkbluemurder on October 10, 2011, 04:21:22 PM
That is a nice looking guitar, congrats!

I have never played a strat-style BKP before but I would look at the two loud ones for this guitar.

And BTW: did you fit a Pigtail bridge on the PRS? I did that to my Single Cut together with the Tone Pros Locking Studs.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 10, 2011, 04:36:00 PM
Haven't checked the wiring in detail TBH, will do. It's not really thin, but just doesn't gel well with the TB-14 in the bridge, which is a pretty meaty HB.

The height is as high as I would go with a SC so I could give it a go at lowering it down some, maybe it helps. But it would make it even less output then. I wonder if those stacked SCs are made for 500K or 250K pots? Would there be a way to wire another 500K resistor to the SC? Wonder how to do it.

Indeed, for BKPs I think the higher output ones are the ones to look at. But maybe I'd have to ask Tim for a custom wind to make it more suitable for a single 500K pot?

And yes, mr. eagle eye, that is a Tonepros bridge on the PRS. I took the bridge off after a few days and kept just the locking studs with the old bridge. So TF was right that the original PRS bridge remains the best sounding one (at least among those two options).

Back to topic: Hmmm, or I was wondering if I should put in a tele neck PU (Piledriver) - would it fit at all? But again the issue with the 500K pot. I will definitely not change the pot itself, as 85% of times I play the bridge pickup anyways, so the bridge must remain no compromise wiring.

I'm kinda lost...
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Twinfan on October 10, 2011, 05:15:35 PM
I have a stacked pickup in my CS Esquire and it likes to be really close to the strings, 2mm.  You can't treat them like single coils, more like a humbucker.  I'd crnak the pickup closer and see how it sounds...
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: darkbluemurder on October 10, 2011, 05:17:18 PM
I would not switch to a tele neck pickup. The string spacing is narrower which would look weird and potentially cause uneven string loudness.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: James C on October 10, 2011, 10:08:38 PM
Slowhand in the neck? More Vintage than the Trilogies but still with some oomph
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Telerocker on October 10, 2011, 11:05:14 PM
I guess Slowhand too.
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 11, 2011, 08:31:38 AM
I have a stacked pickup in my CS Esquire and it likes to be really close to the strings, 2mm.  You can't treat them like single coils, more like a humbucker.  I'd crnak the pickup closer and see how it sounds...

Ok done this and you are right, it does sound better, thanks for the tip! I could actually get along with it like this, but all else being perfect on this guitar, I still don't hear what I am after for the neck tone.

Slowhand? But isn't that much too low output to pair with a TB-14? And what about the pot value issue?

Thanks for your help guys!
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: darkbluemurder on October 11, 2011, 08:42:59 AM
Have you checked the wiring of the neck stack?  If it's a four conductor, it may be wired up to be split all the time? 

If you split a stacked humbucker so that only the upper coil works then it will actually sound less thin. So this may be an option if hum is not an issue.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Zaned on October 11, 2011, 12:36:18 PM

And what about the pot value issue?


You can wire that 500k resistor. I have done this with a HSS setup and liked the results (Holy diver + Irish Tour). It's an easy and cheap mod.

In short: "Using a 500K volume pot or 500K volume and tone pots, you can get 250K out of it when switched to the single-coil(s) by putting a 500K resistor in parallel with the volume pot. The way to do this is to solder one end of the resistor to the same lug on the switch where the single-coil hot wire connects. The other end of the resistor gets soldered to ground."

Mind you, I didn't miss this when I had a Trilogy suite in that neck position, as it was darker and thicker already. However, the Irish tour was a bit too bright in that guitar with the 500k pot.

-Zaned
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Philly Q on October 11, 2011, 12:46:15 PM
Slowhand? But isn't that much too low output to pair with a TB-14? And what about the pot value issue?

Nolly has a Slowhand neck in this Strat with an Abraxas bridge pickup and 500k (or 550k) pots, seems to work OK  :) :

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25139.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25139.0)


Have you checked the wiring of the neck stack?  If it's a four conductor, it may be wired up to be split all the time?  I've had stacked coils before and they're usually anything but thin sounding.  I'm also assuming you've checked the pickup height?

If it's the Classic Stack, that is pretty weedy and thin-sounding (IMO).  Agreed with Stephan, it should sound less thin if you split it (provided you get the right coil!)
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: darkbluemurder on October 11, 2011, 02:37:20 PM

You can wire that 500k resistor. I have done this with a HSS setup and liked the results (Holy diver + Irish Tour). It's an easy and cheap mod.

In short: "Using a 500K volume pot or 500K volume and tone pots, you can get 250K out of it when switched to the single-coil(s) by putting a 500K resistor in parallel with the volume pot. The way to do this is to solder one end of the resistor to the same lug on the switch where the single-coil hot wire connects. The other end of the resistor gets soldered to ground."


Yes, this works as described, except that 500k is not a standard resistor value. You can either use two 1 Meg ohms in parallel or a 470k or a 510k. The difference will in most cases be negligible.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Philly Q on October 11, 2011, 05:06:59 PM
So, silly question, but.... for an HSS guitar you'd need two resistors, one for each single-coil?
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Zaned on October 11, 2011, 05:20:43 PM
So, silly question, but.... for an HSS guitar you'd need two resistors, one for each single-coil?

At least with the way I did it: yes :)

-Zaned
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 11, 2011, 05:54:02 PM
Thanks a lot for the advise, I shall try that resistor mod. Maybe I'll play with some different values.

So if wired like this it would have zero impact when I switch to the bridge although the neck HOT would be permanently connected to ground through the resistor, right?

On the other hand I followed TFs advise bringing that stacker super close to the strings, and he might be up to something there.

Did a vid after adjusting the neck PU according to TFs reco, whatcha think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbbLr_hUCC0
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: gwEm on October 11, 2011, 06:21:45 PM
i do think slowhand too.. i've seen mention of a 10k overwound version thats possible, though i think the standard one would work well. that resistor mod mentioned is one of tried and can approve of.

Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Nolly on October 11, 2011, 11:34:48 PM
Nolly has a Slowhand neck in this Strat with an Abraxas bridge pickup and 500k (or 550k) pots, seems to work OK  :) :

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25139.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25139.0)

Funnily enough after a little bit more time spent with that setup in my guitar (which is a very bright sounding strat I must say), Tim and I decided the 550kΩ pots were thinning out the singles too much for our liking. In the end the set now has twin volume pots, with one 250kΩ pot for the singles, and keeping the 550kΩ pot for the bridge humbucker.

That's not to say a Slowhand won't be suitable for your guitar (as I say, my strat is very bright), but I think you should certainly consider a baseplate to boost the low end response. Alternatively a Trilogy Suite would probably do the job you're after perfectly well and would arguably provide a better output balance with the TB-14 in the bridge.
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Philly Q on October 12, 2011, 12:05:05 AM
Interesting update Nolly.  I think I'll try the 500k + resistor thing.... or maybe even 250k all round - I wonder how much that would "sap" from the humbucker?  I know some Fender HSS models like the Lone Star Strat used all 250k.
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 13, 2011, 11:26:04 AM

 The way to do this is to solder one end of the resistor to the same lug on the switch where the single-coil hot wire connects. The other end of the resistor gets soldered to ground."


Ok so I have tried it today but it doesn't seem to work as intended.

Problem is, when I connect a resistor as described (I used 1/4W, 5% tolerance, 470K, one end to hot on switch, one end to ground ) it mutes the pickup completely as soon as the resistor touches ground.

I am confused now.
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: darkbluemurder on October 13, 2011, 12:36:56 PM
Ok so I have tried it today but it doesn't seem to work as intended.

Problem is, when I connect a resistor as described (I used 1/4W, 5% tolerance, 470K, one end to hot on switch, one end to ground ) it mutes the pickup completely as soon as the resistor touches ground.

I am confused now.

Have you

1) measured the resistor and made sure it's not shorted (very rare) and
2) made sure that none of the resistor wire coming from the hot output from the switch touches ground?

If the resistor is close to the specified value and does not touch ground  where it should not this will be a very mysterious situation.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 13, 2011, 01:44:59 PM
Ok so I have tried it today but it doesn't seem to work as intended.

Problem is, when I connect a resistor as described (I used 1/4W, 5% tolerance, 470K, one end to hot on switch, one end to ground ) it mutes the pickup completely as soon as the resistor touches ground.

I am confused now.

Have you


1) measured the resistor and made sure it's not shorted (very rare) and
2) made sure that none of the resistor wire coming from the hot output from the switch touches ground?

If the resistor is close to the specified value and does not touch ground  where it should not this will be a very mysterious situation.

Cheers Stephan

Ok I measured and it reads 480 Ohm

DOH!

Checked colour code and it says the same.

Double-doh!

So I guess that's the issue  :lol:
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 13, 2011, 01:47:12 PM
I get it, at 480 Ohm the resistance is so small, I am actually creating a short.
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Philly Q on October 13, 2011, 02:34:17 PM
Oh, so it was 480 instead of 480k?  :lol:

I'm sure I could easily make the same mistake.
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 13, 2011, 02:42:01 PM
Oh, so it was 480 instead of 480k?  :lol:

I'm sure I could easily make the same mistake.

Well I went to the shop guy and said "Ich brauche Widerstände mit 470K" but probably should have realised that "K" doesn't mean much in German, so I should probably have said "Kilo-Ohm". Well Or I should have understood those colour codes. Why do they use colour codes anyways? Can anyone read that stuff without any guiding table? Damn.

Well, I lost 30 hardearned cents for those three resistors! LOL
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Philly Q on October 13, 2011, 02:50:01 PM
Why do they use colour codes anyways? Can anyone read that stuff without any guiding table? Damn.

I remember being taught them in school.... circa 1980.  Wouldn't have a bloody clue now!
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: darkbluemurder on October 13, 2011, 03:56:28 PM
Well I went to the shop guy and said "Ich brauche Widerstände mit 470K" but probably should have realised that "K" doesn't mean much in German, so I should probably have said "Kilo-Ohm".

Time to change the shop if he mixed that up. Seriously, I participate quite regularly in a German amp forum, and nobody questions that "k" stands for "kiloohm".

At least your issue is found.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: hunter on October 20, 2011, 12:29:14 PM
Nolly has a Slowhand neck in this Strat with an Abraxas bridge pickup and 500k (or 550k) pots, seems to work OK  :) :

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25139.0 (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25139.0)

Funnily enough after a little bit more time spent with that setup in my guitar (which is a very bright sounding strat I must say), Tim and I decided the 550kΩ pots were thinning out the singles too much for our liking. In the end the set now has twin volume pots, with one 250kΩ pot for the singles, and keeping the 550kΩ pot for the bridge humbucker.

That's not to say a Slowhand won't be suitable for your guitar (as I say, my strat is very bright), but I think you should certainly consider a baseplate to boost the low end response. Alternatively a Trilogy Suite would probably do the job you're after perfectly well and would arguably provide a better output balance with the TB-14 in the bridge.

So after consulting with Tim (in his Holiday) I went with Nollys reco to get a TS neck with an added Zinc base plate. I can't wait, my first new BKP in ... years!!!!
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: Telerocker on October 20, 2011, 08:41:21 PM
Yo, hope it works out fine!
Title: Re: Pickup recommendation for Superstrat / H-S
Post by: explorer76 on October 20, 2011, 09:26:12 PM
Got a bridge TS with a baseplate a month ago for my Strat and I'm totally pleased with it. Stays tight for rhythm and sings for Leads and also balances well with my Amber Vintage+ neck and middle Pickup. That's what a strat bridge pickup should be like!

If the neck TS is only half as good as the bridge TS you'll be pleased I think! :D