Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Kiichi on November 08, 2011, 07:15:20 PM
-
Hey,
two days ago my Aftermath calibrated set with battleworn covers arrived!
I put them into my maple neck through Les Paul type right away.
I have yet to try them with a really cranked amp (bloody neighbors), but I wanted to post my first impressions.
The axe I got them in is now tuned to drop Bb for In Flames stuff and has a 13-65 set on it.
Firstly I had to back the PUs off way more than I thought...they both donīt stick out that far out of the PU rings (or whatever they are called). I kinda thought those high output things would need to be close to the strings...but that sounded horrid (they seemed to get the unwanted overtones very fast).
Now the sound...all in all, they are so very tech death and djent (not djent sound, but style of play) to me, itīs incredible.
I play through I Tiny Terror Hardwired into a Marshall Cab with 2x Celestion G12H30 speakers.
I had to EQ quite a lot of bass out.
First cleans: the bridge is not exiting in this regard, suprise suprise, but the neck is much better than I expected. Very clear and defined metal like cleans (just like you would expect in a Periphery song), they even have some single coil character. They are way less organic than my Mule neck or even my Liquifire neck, but in a good way too. It is just what you would expect from Periphery, In Flames, KSE, etc.
Very cool in itīs own way.
The distorted sounds are stranger to me. Iīll start with the neck: There are some nice qualitys in there, no doubt about it. The sustain is great, and it copes rather well with the tuning and the guitar (lots of base from there). You can get some nice fluid leads, which are again very much modern metal. My problem so far is that I canīt seem to get some of the hairyness out of it. There is too much fizz in there right now that I expect from a bridge, but not from a nice neck PU. Donīt know how I will get that out yet.
The bridge has a different problem (thought it also is a bit too fizzy) right now for me, but Iīll start with the positive things: It is very, very tight and has a nice voicing. I can really go off on the styles I like with rythmic playing.
I immediatly found myself doing early Trivium type riffs. The middy voicing is really great. The palm mutes require different hand positioning than anything I had so far, but they can be real nice.
Only problem is that the sound is only good on 5 strings.
The low Bb right now just does not work for me. Maybe the string is just too thin for me here, but there is something that I really donīt like about the sound. It just sounds like a flabby bassy mess (to exagerate a bit). The 5th string (tuned to F) is a whole nother beast, while the lowest sound uncontrolled and like from another guitar.
The 7th string on my Dean Vendatta (Crunchlab bridge) sound so much tighter and defined.
All in all I can really see the potential in these pickups, but right now I need to find a way to sort out some of the fizzyness and the low Bb....I think I will need at least a 14-68 set of strings...though I kind of fear that the tuning is just too low (I can imagine they work amazing with drop C though).
Cheers!
-
Your tuning and guage is more than perfect. It may be ur amp since it's not really an all out brutal amp for drop tuned metal. You can also try messing about with the bolts, setting them to different heights, etc :)
-
i would definitely say its the amp at fault here for what you are playing. Try sticking a boost in front of it.
Also regarding the cleans on the bridge try it split its amazing.
And the neck also sounds fantastic in Parrallel!
-
Agreed that the amp isnt the right tool for the job.
But, if youre happier with the crunchlab sound in the same setup, then obviously you've got some sort of guitar/pickup/guitar+pickup problem too.
Try raising the poles on the Bb and any others you arent happy with that are closer to the bridge. This will help it pick up more strongly from the part of the string right over those poles, which being nearer the bridge is a narrower, trebblier and generally more cutting sounding bit of the string. You can rudimentarily EQ each string seperately this way with double screw pole pickups like the AM.
If that fails, try a cold sweat. Its a similar output but kickout less low end and you may find it better for the low tuning and string gauge as a result.
heavier strings is often a two steps back two forward practice in low tunings were tightness is a priority. You have a tighter string, but its got more mass. Therefore you have a narrower oscilation with less low frequency energy in it, but more mass of the string drives more low frequencies through the pickup and you can end up back where you started. Often you will have better results with thinner strings and a lighter touch. Alternatively you can get thick cored strings from newtone that have more tension without increasing the mass of the string. I use those; 12-56 in drop B. I find that the most preferable solution, personally.
-
Agreed that the amp isnt the right tool for the job.
Alternatively you can get thick cored strings from newtone that have more tension without increasing the mass of the string. I use those; 12-56 in drop B. I find that the most preferable solution, personally.
yeah I know the amp is not the best tool for modern metal^^ Yet I saw that In Flames have it in their studio too, so there kinda must be something to it. Plus my 7 string axe sounds great through it, also very much the sound I want, as I am not after imitating the In Flames sound but rather taking a nice classic heavy metal sound and turning it up to 11, which works great on the 7 string.
I will try to raise the pole pieces.
And sometime Iīll try some split wiring too...probably not Petrucci style on this one but rather a push pull pot, though I have never used one before.
For the boost I have a MXR Supercomp and a MXR 10band EQ...not more right now. Still looking for a real boost I like.
Thing that annoyes me is that every string exept the lowest on the bridge PU basecally sounds good and I really like the qualitys it gives me, it really is just that the lowest does for some reason not sound like the rest, not having any of the qualitys of the others.
And the fizz is probably a minor issue that I can fix, so far rolling down the volume helps (these thing clean up very well), I think most people would not even take that much of an issue, I just like my gain structure to be chunky and not fizzy if you know what I mean. I want a chopper and not a vespa.
Also I have not found one guitar where I donīt end up taking out bass to fit my taste, I basecally alway do a frown on my 10band eq, they very in form a bit from guitar to guitar though. Though the Dean Vendatta with the CL and Liquifire needs the least EQing.
And I will definetly try those strings you recommend...when they do what I hope they do I will probably put them in all my guitars, cause I love high tension (got a 11-56 in drop D right now) but I donīt like thick strings...which sucks. But high tension is more important to me.
I hope I can get some in germany.
-
Good luck in getting it sorted.
I got so annoyed with my first AM that i sold it and went through 3-4 different pickups and then came back to the AM.
it took a bit of tweaking but it was the ideal pickup for my baritone.
I do only play in Eb or D standard though
-
I really think that I will at one later point also get an AM for normal or dropped d tuning, I can really see it working well there.
I also believe that with tweaking (and mainly getting the Bb string to work) this can be exactly what I wanted.
-
Try gettin DR DDt strings. There's something about them were the strings have really high tension, even if they're thin :)
-
Just because you saw the amp in the studio doesnt mean that it was used for a main sound on any recording. It could have been layered to augment the sound of another amp, used for a small section or specific tone or part, crunch sounds, leads, cleans, whatever, it could have been cut from the final mixes or simply tested and not used at all. Its even been known for studio vids and gear lists to be a bit of a troll, intentionally misleading, to hide how the sounds were actually made, or for amusement value.
That said, AFAIK In flames use 5150s, thats what I saw them use live and as I understand it (from what amounts to hearsay) thats the core of their studio sound.
-
Try gettin DR DDt strings. There's something about them were the strings have really high tension, even if they're thin :)
I tried those. They sound mushy and arent especially high tension for the gauges.
-
I know that IF did not use the Tiny a lot or even as their main sound, but at least for some. Plus remember that I do not want their sound.
Forget that I even mentioned that.
I just know that it works with the 7 string and therefore I think should also work a half step down.
I know that it can give me the sound I want.
About the DDTs...guess what I am using right now! Yes, correct, the fattest set of DR DDTs on the market, and yet they are too flabby for me (plus too thick xD).
So I gotta get those with the thicker core.
Update: Looks like my usual store does not have that perticular kind of newtones...well, Iīll continue to look.
-
Mine sound pretty damn tight lol. But then again, upgrading from D'addarios to DRs, you're deffo gonna feel a difference, lol. I'll have to try them ones you mntioned :)
-
for DRs i would go with Tite Fits.
If not Kerly kues
-
Well that's great! Newtone don't do my gauge, grrrr
-
The DR tight fits work very well on my 7 string, although I need a Dīaddario 7th, cause only they make good strings in the gauge I prefer there...68.
For my ibbie S with RY, IT and Mule in drop D I just really prefer the DR Pure Blues.
I donīt even know if the newtones would be enough for me, as in normal tuning I use at least 10 13 17 30 44 52....minimum.
Right now I got 13 17 22 42 56 65 for the Drop Bb and they would feel good one half step up tension whise (only the Bb could use even more and feels too thick...so I really could use like at least a 60 with more core I guess)
-
Well that's great! Newtone don't do my gauge, grrrr
Newtone do any gauge. You ask them to make what you want, and specify 'thick core'. I also recommend they be hex core, since though they dont last quite as long they are tighter and brighter, which helps combat detuning mud.
-
Well that's great! Newtone don't do my gauge, grrrr
Newtone do any gauge. You ask them to make what you want, and specify 'thick core'. I also recommend they be hex core, since though they dont last quite as long they are tighter and brighter, which helps combat detuning mud.
That;s pretty cool. How much about is it per set?
-
I think mine come to about/a little less than Ģ7 a set. They take a while to get out as they're made to order, but they also last a stupidly long time; rivaling coated strings (since they're tin plated, I believe), but without the diminished/curtailed/weird top end.
-
I think mine come to about/a little less than Ģ7 a set. They take a while to get out as they're made to order, but they also last a stupidly long time; rivaling coated strings (since they're tin plated, I believe), but without the diminished/curtailed/weird top end.
I'll deffo try a set then. You said they're quite tight, but how are the top strings for soloing? I like tight wound strings , but I also like a little bit of flex on the plain strings
-
Fine. You can get any gauge combinations you like if tensions your concern. Get an 8-70 set if you want.
-
So if I say that I want a set of roundcore strings that feels like 14-68 or 11-56 (with every in between gauge specified) and they should be as thin as possible without sacrificing too much sound they will make me those sets?
Can I also specify the material used for the wound wire?
Minimum order size being 6 sets as I take from the website.
-
Yes.
-
Holy shitee, I will so order from them. That sounds like a dream come true.
Not only my dream sets made to order but also increased core wire strength? Damn, that is too good to be true.
-
I am making progress in getting them to sound like I want now.
I backed them up even more and raised the pole pieces closer to the bridge on the bridge PU, which really helped.
It always amazes me how sensitive to height BKPs are.
Also I think the strings settling in helped a bit, though I will contact newtone right now.
Thanks for all the input so far, I am getting closer.
-
Keep it up, I'm using an Am in drop A on a multiscale baritone, currently with Newtone strings (bottom A is a 70). Tight, brutal and sweet sound - like you I go more for a crunch base to work from rather than a really high gain fizzy sound, and I use loads of mids. I absolutely love the AM for what I do, and also noticed how far from the strings it needed to be to get that sweet spot!
Roo
-
Keep it up, I'm using an Am in drop A on a multiscale baritone, currently with Newtone strings (bottom A is a 70). Tight, brutal and sweet sound - like you I go more for a crunch base to work from rather than a really high gain fizzy sound, and I use loads of mids. I absolutely love the AM for what I do, and also noticed how far from the strings it needed to be to get that sweet spot!
Roo
Good to hear that my aproach to the guitar sound can work with the AM...though your axe being a multiscale baritone and not a gibson scale might help a bit.
Btw, that "crunch base" was just what I was looking for to describe what I want in the sound, I just never could think of words that describe it properly...but heavy crunch hits it pretty good, Iīll keep that in mind.
-
I am slowly getting closer to the sound I want, learning about the pickup progressivly.
Strings from Newtone are ordered, now for the long wait...
In the meanwhile I want to rethink the wiring and am looking for some help. Did not want to do a new tech thread, so Iīkll try here first:
I currently have: 2 Vol, 1 Tone, 3 way toggle (neck, neck + bridge, bridge)
Basecally very basic right now.
Now I would like to switch the 2 Vol pots for Push-Pull pots if possible so each one can split the assigned HB when pulled, so I can in addition to the existing options also have neck split, bridge split, neck + bridge split, bridge + neck split, neck split + bridge split.
Is that possible so far?
Could I even add a phase on the tone pot on top of that?
If that is possible: Could anyone supply me with wiring diagrams or instructions to help me realize that?
Could you also recommend pots and caps I should use? (I can not get a hold of BKP pots and jensen caps easily as I am in germany. Jensen may be possible somehow, but alternatives would be great).
Also, can I alter the cap value so that the neck is tamed a bit more in the highs?
Hope you can help me as much as ever.
Cheers guys!
Ole
-
I wish I'd had gotten an AM for my 7 string rather than a c-pig. The pig it out of control on anything lower than E. But I'm heading down a different path with blackouts now. I did find it took time to get use to the BKP. But one thing I did learn is I have another geetar with EMG 81/85 in E and the c-pig in E just smashes them. A shame it's not working for me at lower tuning :(
-
A shame it's not working for me at lower tuning :(
Sure you tweaked your amp (which hopefully is NOT a Marshall MG 15-watt) after tuning lower ?
-
I have. The guitar/pickup combination is too dark. An AM would have given me better bass response and tone. I took a gamble and it hasn't paid off.
But enough of that. I am interested in an Aftermath for another 6 string I have which I tune to C.
-
I am slowly getting closer to the sound I want, learning about the pickup progressivly.
Strings from Newtone are ordered, now for the long wait...
In the meanwhile I want to rethink the wiring and am looking for some help. Did not want to do a new tech thread, so Iīkll try here first:
I currently have: 2 Vol, 1 Tone, 3 way toggle (neck, neck + bridge, bridge)
Basecally very basic right now.
Now I would like to switch the 2 Vol pots for Push-Pull pots if possible so each one can split the assigned HB when pulled, so I can in addition to the existing options also have neck split, bridge split, neck + bridge split, bridge + neck split, neck split + bridge split.
Is that possible so far?
Could I even add a phase on the tone pot on top of that?
If that is possible: Could anyone supply me with wiring diagrams or instructions to help me realize that?
Could you also recommend pots and caps I should use? (I can not get a hold of BKP pots and jensen caps easily as I am in germany. Jensen may be possible somehow, but alternatives would be great).
Also, can I alter the cap value so that the neck is tamed a bit more in the highs?
Hope you can help me as much as ever.
Cheers guys!
Ole
Have you tried it on a different amp? Because really a Tiny Terror + 2x12 cab with GH30 is not the best combination for such a low tuning. You're "toying" with the thought of altering caps, which IMO will do absolutely NOTHING to improve the tone, where 50-80 extra watts would help the power amp stay much more stable with such low tunings. Add in a pair of Electro Voice EVM speakers and that would make a world of difference, as opposed to changing pots and caps.
-
Have you tried it on a different amp? Because really a Tiny Terror + 2x12 cab with GH30 is not the best combination for such a low tuning. You're "toying" with the thought of altering caps, which IMO will do absolutely NOTHING to improve the tone, where 50-80 extra watts would help the power amp stay much more stable with such low tunings. Add in a pair of Electro Voice EVM speakers and that would make a world of difference, as opposed to changing pots and caps.
What you are saying makes a lot of sense, donīt get me wrong, but for me and my situation I still have to respectfully disagree I am afraid:
My setup works very well for what I do most of the time. This axe really is an exeption. It even works very well with a seven string axe which basecally is only half a step higher.
Therefore I still fail to see how the amp and cab are faulty.
I had this adjustment period for every new axe I got (even for the one with RY and Mule combo in drop D, which should work well with this setup), getting used to the sound, the behaviour and eq of the new PUs. And a lot of hight fiddeling.
Also, 90% of the time (I could use it once a week if I am very lucky) a higher wattage amp would simply be too loud more my needs if I did not also put in a power brake I am afraid, plus there is always the money issue.
You must also understand that I am not going for a typical high gain metal sound, but rather a Petrucci esque version of crunch, which this amp and cab do very well for my taste.
I wanted to change the caps for better ones while I was redoing the wiring and chaning the pots as well. I am not thinking they will change my tone very much at all, I just want the extra split options, which I am sure will sound different. If I could do that with my current pots I would, but they are not push pull.
I was asking for recommendations to not get shitety ones that would possibly make my sound worse.
Also I was only thinking about changing the value on the neck as there is a bit of hight content I donīt really like that is also fixed by rolling the volume down to 8. Just thought I could maybe do that with caps too.
I thank you for your advice, but maybe you can understand why I have trouble to follow it. ;)
-
Not sure I made my point properly.
At the same room volume, a 120 Watt Peavey 5150 will always be more precise and clearer on the low notes than a 30Watt Orange amp (is it 30?). The reason is that low notes are much more demanding of the power amp stage in general than higher notes, and a Bb tuning is basically already in bass guitar territory. Bass amps often have much higher wattage ratings than guitar amps, yet they rarely are the ones that blow your head off with sheer volume at a concert, if you think about it.
I could hear a direct effect of this when comparing my 20Watt Krank to my 50 Watt Marshall to my 120 Watt 5150 at the same volume.
-
Ahh, now I get your point.
So basecally I would profit from a higher wattage amp more or less all around if its main sound comes from the preamp stage?
Btw, the TT only has 15W^^
Thing is that getting another amp right now is simply not an option. It will be in the long run, but right now I have neither the money and on top of that if everything goes well I will be moving to another country to study next summer and right now it will be hell to take my guitars with me (if I for example move from northern germany to england). A big amp head is the last thing I need (I already want to take 3 electrics, 1 lap steel, 1 accoustic, 1 acc bass, a big 2x12 cab and my Orange TT with me. That and my PC with sound system and monitor is what I deem my survival basic xD).
-
I have the same problem, mostly because where I live (terraced housing and not a lot of space in my guitar room). In the end it comes down to the compromise you can have at home, since having a triple rectifier full stack at home just isn't going to do it.
15Watts is quite little though. I run my baritone (tuned to B) into a 20W Krank at the moment and there's only so much the Miracle Man can do to help. An overdrive pedal that tightens up the low end helps a lot though, IMO.
-
The space I live in is not even my issue, I will put a matrace on top of my guitar cases to keep em. Give me 15 (or less) square meters to live and sleep (toilet and kitchen excluded, lets say the dorm has is seperat) and I will bring all my instruments.
The getting it all from germany to england or somewhere else is what gets problematic.
Also believe me I would kill for a Mesa Boogie Mark V (my dream amp). That thing is everything I need and dream of....but Iīll have to come back in a couple of years for that.
As for the overdrive, I currently use an MXR supercomp and at times a MXR 10band eq (basecally always taking out low end) through a BBE Sonic Stomp (tightens a bit too) to push the preamp more. Should I get an overdrive on top / instead of that?
Back to my original question: Would you know anthing about how I would have to wire my guitar to get the split options I want and can you recommend a pot brand or something?
-
An overdrive would do a lot more than the BBE & EQ for tightening up your sound
-
Alright then, any recommendations on that end? Remember, my goal is Petrucci-esque high gain crunch.
Maybe I can get one on saturday when I go to a guitar effects pedals market where a lot of representatives of famous brands will be present^^
-
A lot of pros use the Maxon OD, or the Ibanez tubescreamer. Colin Richardson swears by the latter. I think the Visual Sound RT808 and the Digitech Bad Monkey are generally accepted alternatives.
-
I would say either the Maxon OD808 or a TS type pedal
Im currently using a custom pedal that i built that takes from both the OCD v3 and the Maxon OD808 and its incredible
-
Maxon OD808 is fantastic imo, probably the only pedal on my pedalboard i couldnt live without-it allows your original guitar tone to come through yet manages to add focus and tightness, its great!
-
The maxon sounds really nice, I think I have heard many a good thing about it here before. I especially like that the original amp and guitar sound is still there (not too much coloring).
Hopefully they have it there on saturday...
Either that or Toe-Knee would sell me one of his custom ones ;)
-
PM me and we can discuss it if you like!