Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: choucas09 on November 09, 2011, 10:34:56 AM
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I mentioned elsewhere that I went to the Fender Custom Shop recently where I tried about 30 CS and MB guitars. When I came home I picked up my Tokai and thought not only could it easily live in that company, but had it been there badged CS you'd have picked it out as one of the better ones. Needless to say that made me very happy about a £425 guitar.
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Tokais are great, although of course (like Gibson or Fender) they make a lot of similar-looking guitars at vastly differing price points. Some of the top-of-the-line ones actually do approach Custom Shop prices, which I think is hard to justify for "copies".
My only complaint - compared with, say, Edwards - is that Tokai's Gibson-style guitars tend to be on the heavyweight side. Must be to do with where they source their mahogany, I suppose.
But yes, I kept my Tokai SG-155 in preference to a Gibson Pete Townshend Signature SG (although in retrospect I wish I'd kept both!)
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My wife got me a Tokai 57 LP copy. Haven't played it much yet (I officially receive it at our 11th anniversary) but a cursory test shows it to be better than my Edwards 92 (which was cheaper though)
A damn good Les Paul copy. I might get another one, if I can find a buyer for my Strat.
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Their bargain basement models are a bit dodgy though - in my opinion
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I should qualify that mine is an MIJ 1981 Springy Sound. I've not played a modern one.
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Their bargain basement models are a bit dodgy though - in my opinion
That's what I meant, you've got everything from Chinese LP copies costing under £300 to real high end Japanese ones costing £3,000 (although I can't believe anyone ever buys them!). And the model names are all just letters and numbers (LS48, LS370) -which aren't printed on the guitars - 20 years from now it'll be amost impossible to work out what you're getting if you're buying an old one!
Sorry, old moan... I'm like a broken record sometimes.
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Mine has Made In Japan stamped on the headstock. Cost about as much as a Gibson SG Standard, so it's definitely not bottom of the barrel. Apparently it's a series that's made for the German market.
The most expensive Tokai that dealer has is 2000 euro, but for those prices, I'd be looking at Heritage, tbh.
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Well I have 3 Les Pauls, 1 is a an epiphone that my wife got me & the other 2 are Tokai's both of which I love to death. I've played numerous Gibbo's as well as some lovely Edwards but I keep coming back to my 2 Tokai's
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I may have lucked out, but my Gibsons are all a notch above both the Edwards and Tokai. I have come across less than stirring Gibsons though...
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Arguably the highest end tokais (which I should stress I haven't tried) have more accurate specs than the custom shop gibsons- brazilian rosewood fingerboards and the like. Though whether that actually translates to a better guitar is up for some debate... maybe they're for the TGP crowd? :lol:
Don't get me wrong, they're very expensive (especially since the pound collapsed), but yeah. While I understand the argument, and even agree to a certain extent, I don't think the philosophy should be as simple as, "if you can afford a gibson, you should" (granted, you weren't necessarily saying that, you said you kept a tokai over a gibson).
But yeah I'd agree wholeheartedly that the bang for the buck tokais are probably the cheapest MIJ ones- they can hang with almost anything (it probably won't be better than your £3000 guitar, but it won't be embarrassed by it, either), for a very good price.
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Arguably the highest end tokais (which I should stress I haven't tried) have more accurate specs than the custom shop gibsons- brazilian rosewood fingerboards and the like. Though whether that actually translates to a better guitar is up for some debate... maybe they're for the TGP crowd? :lol:
Don't get me wrong, they're very expensive (especially since the pound collapsed), but yeah. While I understand the argument, and even agree to a certain extent, I don't think the philosophy should be as simple as, "if you can afford a gibson, you should" (granted, you weren't necessarily saying that, you said you kept a tokai over a gibson).
But yeah I'd agree wholeheartedly that the bang for the buck tokais are probably the cheapest MIJ ones- they can hang with almost anything (it probably won't be better than your £3000 guitar, but it won't be embarrassed by it, either), for a very good price.
As you mentioned, I wasn't exactly saying "if you can afford a Gibson, you should", I was just questioning the notion that anything which is just a copy of a Gibson - which is all these Tokais are, there's nothing inherently "Tokai" in the design - should cost anywhere near three grand.
(Compare something like a Heritage or Collings, which are essentially copies but have their own refinements of body shape, finishes, components etc)
I agree that the cheaper MIJ Tokais are the best deals - not only are they very good guitars, but they'll keep their value much better than the upscale ones. I've mentioned it many times, but I had an SG-75 which was less than half the price of my SG-155, but identical in construction - the only differences were cheaper (but still good) hardware and electronics, and lesser-quality timber (which doesn't necessarily mean a lesser-sounding guitar!)
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Yep, sure.
That being said, some of those higher end tokais are maybe closer to the "real thing" than the real thing is :lol: So for the tgp brigade who care what type of glue it's made with or whatever, it might be worth it- and just being a copy with no refinements doesn't matter as that's sorta the point :lol:
But I'd agree- when the cheaper ones are so good, I can't see going to £3k or more for one. Then again i wouldn't use those style of guitars for my main style of music, so I couldn't really justify £3k for one nomatter the name on the headstock :lol:
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Tokai re-use the model numbers so that an LS675 (or whatever) from one year can be completely different spec wise to the same model from another year. A local shop had a really nice Tokai LP copy advertised as a particular model but there was absolutely no way of telling what model it was from inspecting the guitar. I asked how they knew what it was and, after a very great deal of bulls*hit, the guy told me it was one of those things 'you just have to know'. He was not able to offer any explanation of how HE knew. As much as I liked it I couldn't work out if it was worth what they were asking.
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If you want to know the model no on a recent tokai, especially a uk import it's in the pick up cavity.I initially couldn't
identify mine (lp copy) because it wasn't labelled in the neck pup cavity where i thought it would be having read stuff on the forums.I trusted the shop though when they said it was an LS135, it was printed on the invoice and the specification made it very unlikely it was anything less.It was new or as new.
Later when i changed the bridge pup, there it was , serial no ULS 150. the U is for uk import the 150 means i got a better deal than i thought although spec wise there's no difference. actually the 135 is spec'd as having 2 piece back
and i knew mine was 1 piece which niggled me.
anyway great guitars, Choucus i share your sentiments. les pauls and fenders became classic 'cause they where good.
if someone makes them as good or better for cheaper than i care not what's on the headstock.
also above about 2K your paying for furniture (figured wood) looks nice but won't make you sound better.
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anyway great guitars, Choucus i share your sentiments. les pauls and fenders became classic 'cause they where good.
if someone makes them as good or better for cheaper than i care not what's on the headstock.
also above about 2K your paying for furniture (figured wood) looks nice but won't make you sound better.
+1
I mean Fenders and Gibsons aren't even made in the original factories any more (even in the same state in Gibson's case :lol: ), and have each been sold a couple of times since the glory days. I'm not saying they're bad guitars or anything, but this over-romanticisation of the two big brands isn't really borne out in fact, if you ask me. I'm not saying they're not good guitars- they may well be awesome, and your favourite guitar, but if they are it's because they're good guitars, not because they have the right name on the headstock.
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Personally I think Fender is in its second glory day - I have a couple of American standards, and a Mex Baja and they are superb playing and sounding guitars (although I admit they have had Jon at Feline's attention and BKPs, but then so do all my guitars) - in my view they excel the couple of mid 60s Fenders I have played (never played anything earlier).
As to Tokai - in 1983 I had a choice between a Springy Sound, a Fender Standard and a Squier JV and took the Squier - I wish I taken the Fender for value (although it had a maple board and was a dog to play) but the Squier played better than the Tokai and the Fender and was fiesta red with a rosewood board. Still the Tokai was very nice and I have occasional regrets about not taking it.
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^ even those jv squiers are quite valuable now :)
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Well maybe I just got lucky, but I'm telling you this guitar is exceptional.
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc119/jage7/DSC02601.jpg)
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mmm matching headstock, noice!
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mmm matching headstock, noice!
Yes indeed!
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i have loved most of the springy's and breezy's i have come across.
the only downside being the frets are a little too vintage sized, and often a little soft. but it would be easy to choose between an 80's tokai strat and anything fender put out back then