Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Thrull on November 12, 2011, 09:09:01 AM
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I have been kicking around getting a baritone for sometime. At the moment all my downtuned guitars are 24.75" scale length and and as you know things don't really intonate perfectly tuned at Bb (14-68) The BC Rich quad bridge allows me to come much much closer than a tune o matic would, but it's not perfect and I really think i would get a much better sound out of a baritone. The thing is I have yet to see one I really like. I'd really an SG baritone, but they dont seem to exist outside the customshop or a 4k price tag. I am really not a fan of ESP's viper shape which they do offer in a baritone. I want something with a very late 70's early 80's vibe but not in a strat or tele shape. I thought about ordering another custom shop rich, but their prices recently creep up another 1k from where they were last time i ordered a couple years ago... (american dollar isnt worth shite these days)
anyways, anyone one out there play a baritone? show it off, tell me what you like/ dislike about it. How much did you pay for it? was it worth i? regrets? no regrets? I want gain as much knowledge as i can.
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Technically i dont play a baritone as it seems to start at 27" nowadays but i do play an extended scale that is 26.5" and its perfect it put me off guitars with a shorter scale for the longest time as the fret spacing just felt right on it.
I use it with a set of aftermaths and it is an incredible combination.
Unfortunately its super strat shaped so doesnt tick all your boxes
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/62873_434474446559_515751559_5890181_7868367_n.jpg)
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/33891_434474376559_515751559_5890178_5689336_n.jpg)
However i highly recommend extended/baritones they are just simply incredible.
The only thing i didn't like was i had to stick .9s on to get it into standard and the tension was the equivalent of a set of 11s in standard.
It sits happilly with 10s in D standard though or 12s in C# Standard
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i know they did some quite nice looking Baritone Bich'es a couple of years back.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/Guitars/IMGP2076.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/theonlywarlock/Guitars/IMAG0222.jpg)
I've had this one for many years. I like it, it could have a bit less "bling"/tribals for my taste, but try finding a baritone that has passive pickups, is not neck-heavy, where the neck looks somewhat normal length, is no more than 27" and has such a nice lightweight construction - not easy. Over 27" things start to get rather uncomfy in my opinion.
Most come with EMGs or are Ibanez Superstrats (the RGXL). The old Mike Mushok Model from Ibanez was nice, his new one from PRS I don't like too much.
I can't give you a proper alternative, simply because there isn't one. You're stuck between the giraffe necked ESP/LTD Viper (neck heavy as crazy), the ridiculous long 30" BC Rich baritone, the 26,5" Schecters Ibanez models and the PRS Mike Mushok SE.
All of them probably not that easy to find anyway.
The other problem with baritones is that it takes practice and time to get used to, as you have to play more precise and it is more demanding; I'm not surprised Ibanez went with the shorter 26" (or is it 26.5") over 27"/28" on their new models. It makes a difference in how easy it is to play. And finally, the reward, the better tone (over a downtuned guitar) will only be audible if the rest of the equipment is able to go along.
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If it helps, here's my review of an Agile Baritone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5q0g1DP2ZU
Negative points of this particular guitar aside, I actually feel that it was a very comfortable transition from the 24.75 and 25.5 I am used to, up to the 27" scale. In fact, I was so comfortable with it, I could hardly feel the difference between 25.5 and 27. A little more of a stretch at the bottom end, but not by a lot.
I was so comfy with this transition that, actually, I rather wish I had bitten the bullet and gone for a full 28.75 scale Guitar, but not having anything to try out beforehand I went for the safer 27 option.
Sound-wise, you can really hear the difference on something in your chosen tuning on a longer scale neck. It's clearer, tighter and more responsive. That extra couple of inches helps a lot when playing lower tuned stuff. Harder to bend notes, yes, but I hardly care about that at all, a little extra effort is a small price to pay for a much better sounding guitar!
If you really want to hear the difference and get the best possible results, I would go for no less than 27, I would probably even recommend the 28" scale length and upwards if you can find something you like in that range. The 26.5 Schecters I tried were very nice sounding, but they did just sound like I was trying out a 25.5 guitar and didn't have the added tension I really needed for my style of play. The 27" is starting on the right path, but to get the full effect, as I say, I wish I had gone longer again.
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(http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/12/7/f_IbanezMMM1Mm_16236a4.png) always fancied a baritone..especially these ibanez MM1's
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I always liked that MM1, they still do them?
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some cool axes you all have, but unfortunately none of them are for me. The Ibanez RG shape is cool, but it doesn't really fit the look i want (70's and early 80's) also I am not a fan of floyds much. The F baritone, is really cool apart from the graphics. I'd end up itching to repaint it and I'd rather not. That MM baritone though I'm sure is nice, just doesn't doesn't do anything for me. And his PRS model is just ugly. I have however, been pretty intrigued by the Agiles, and I've always said if i were to buy an 8 string it would likely be from them. They're quite known in the extended range world and seem to give quite a bit bang for your buck. Everytime I think of buying i get cold feet for some reason and buy another BCR. I have a disease and cant get away from them. I am aware they built an archtop bich import a while back with a 30" scale, but they're quite hard to find these days and are not really worth the price they're fetching with bolt on construction. I am not really sure i want to jump all the way to 30 inches either. ARRG. A Baritone SG, or a Baritone NT Mockingbird would make me creme, but we're talking 4k for something i dont even know i would like in the end
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I implore you to research Agile a bit more if you want to go down that route. If you are anywhere in the world that isn't the U.S, you need to weigh up if it is worth the risk. Watch my video above for the full reasons, but in my experience, I got a bad one, and because I'm in the UK it would cost me a quarter of the price again just to send it back, and that's not including the over £100 I had to pay on import tax and the £117 I had to pay for it to be properly looked at and set up and they still weren't able to solve the warped neck issue.
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I implore you to research Agile a bit more if you want to go down that route. If you are anywhere in the world that isn't the U.S, you need to weigh up if it is worth the risk. Watch my video above for the full reasons, but in my experience, I got a bad one, and because I'm in the UK it would cost me a quarter of the price again just to send it back, and that's not including the over £100 I had to pay on import tax and the £117 I had to pay for it to be properly looked at and set up and they still weren't able to solve the warped neck issue.
ouch, sounds like it was an expensive experiment. shame. fortunately I am in the US, but I just stumbled across this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170725770148?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I may throw a bid on it.
I've also begun thinking about converting an Epi SG bass like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Epiphone-EB-0-SG-Bass-Guitar-Red-/160635706392?pt=Guitar&hash=item2566a25c18
wouldnt be too hard, fill the tuners and the pickup route, re-route and drill, add a kahler tremolo and bam. I think it may work. I've been pretty successful doing pretty radical mods before, so what the hell. besides I may be about to get one of these basses for 40 bucks
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Yeah it was a very sour experience for me seeing as I had to save up for a year to be able to afford it. Sucked the big one, but hey-ho, a lesson learned! Being in the U.S it would be a lot easier for you if anything went wrong, so in that case I say give Agile a go if you like any of their designs. I do believe that Agile also have a Baritone Les Paul shape model too, so that might be worth a look.
That LP in the ebay ad is the sex! What a lovely looking piece of kit! I also had the idea of modifying a short-scale bass, I think that's the way to go for my next project when I can get the money for parts. I've been watching ss Bass necks on ebay, as I have an old guitar body I can modify to fit it. Should be a fairly simple task, just gotta make sure the nut-filing is correct and the bridge is at the right distance and bingo! :D
The EB - 0 will make a fine Baritone SG if you are willing to do the work on it. :)
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I again want to stress that before buying anything longer than 27" you should really play it. One extra inch might not sound like much (well, to men it does ;-) ), but can feel quite different, especially on the lower frets.
They did make several more ESP baritones (including some more F-Models without graphics). I always wanted the Japanese F baritone (which looks like mine sans graphics). Phil Demmel (Machine Head) used an LTD FB-200 for a long time, which according to him sounded better than the more expensive models.
RAN guitars could probably make you a nice baritone, but I reckon with the weak $ it will be too expensive for you to be considered.
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Gibson must've had a one of their bright moments recently:
(http://images.gibson.com.s3.amazonaws.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Bass/USA/Explorer-Baritone/Gallery-Images/DSXBSBCH1-Finish-Shot.jpg)
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Explorer/Gibson-USA/Explorer-Baritone.aspx (http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Explorer/Gibson-USA/Explorer-Baritone.aspx)
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Gibson must've had a one of their bright moments recently:
(http://images.gibson.com.s3.amazonaws.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Bass/USA/Explorer-Baritone/Gallery-Images/DSXBSBCH1-Finish-Shot.jpg)
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Explorer/Gibson-USA/Explorer-Baritone.aspx (http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Explorer/Gibson-USA/Explorer-Baritone.aspx)
*jaw drops*
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*jaw drops*
Me too, bro, me too...
retails at the BigT for 1245€, first Gibson to tempt me in a loooong time
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Hah :P No more guitars for me :P Having 10 often feels like 9 too many.
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w00t Baritone Explorer!!! Nom nom nom. I still have yet to acquire an Epiphone Korina '58 reissue, such a lovely sounding guitar. Just can't justify it when I am trying to aim for a better Baritone next. One day....one day....
I like the Honeyburst LP Baritone too.
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really into the baritone LP. I have yet to see one for sale. never been a fan of the explorer shape. If you're going to go pointy this simply isn't pointy enough for me
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I've got a Septor 727 pro and it's great. It has the slightest bit of fret buzz on the low B, but nothing I'd moan about on a guitar that cost me less than £400. Nadzilla, did it change with heavy strings and a baritone tuning?
I've also got an AL3100 which is awesome. Rondo's return policy in the states is pretty legendary, so you probably want to look at something like this http://www.rondomusic.com/product1068.html
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Didn't change massively, have since raised the bridge a bit more. The top end is nigh-on unplayable, but there's reduced fret buzz at the lower frets now, which is good for the riff-writing at least, heh.
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Didn't change massively, have since raised the bridge a bit more. The top end is nigh-on unplayable, but there's reduced fret buzz at the lower frets now, which is good for the riff-writing at least, heh.
suprised you didnt sell it. just having a guitar with those problems around would annoy me to no end
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(http://www.google.dk/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.playbsides.com/media/JaguarHH_sm.jpg&sa=X&ei=xr7ATsCxJ87c4QTO4vGvBA&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNG5_Y5AF4ie2Lc5YJ5A2A8XOQNtIg)
Jaguar Baritone.
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(http://www.google.dk/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.playbsides.com/media/JaguarHH_sm.jpg&sa=X&ei=xr7ATsCxJ87c4QTO4vGvBA&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNG5_Y5AF4ie2Lc5YJ5A2A8XOQNtIg)
Jaguar Baritone.
It certainly is pretty. My band mate in Circle of Eyes: Kevin (sutekh hexen) has one. I love the look, but I play a fender and I just cant get what everyone likes. they just dont feel like they're solid to me. (a few telecasters, I've played have been exceptions) I played my buddies jag a few times, and in fact it was him who turned me on to the whole baritone thing, but and I am just not a fan of his. To have a baritone without an angled headstock is just plain idiotic. I have never been a big fender fan apart from Fender Jazz basses and occasional tele to be honest. The fact they don't angle their headstocks annoys me to no end.
that Baritone gibson Les Paul has given me some serious GAS though.
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Didn't change massively, have since raised the bridge a bit more. The top end is nigh-on unplayable, but there's reduced fret buzz at the lower frets now, which is good for the riff-writing at least, heh.
suprised you didnt sell it. just having a guitar with those problems around would annoy me to no end
It annoys the hell out of me, heh. But I'm not going to sell it until I can afford a decent new guitar, and I'm thinking of going the Daemoness route, so I need to save about a grand and then sell all my Guitars to finance it. The Agile will get sold eventually, but it will probably take 4 or 5 years to save the grand I need to get things moving.
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Didn't change massively, have since raised the bridge a bit more. The top end is nigh-on unplayable, but there's reduced fret buzz at the lower frets now, which is good for the riff-writing at least, heh.
suprised you didnt sell it. just having a guitar with those problems around would annoy me to no end
It annoys the hell out of me, heh. But I'm not going to sell it until I can afford a decent new guitar, and I'm thinking of going the Daemoness route, so I need to save about a grand and then sell all my Guitars to finance it. The Agile will get sold eventually, but it will probably take 4 or 5 years to save the grand I need to get things moving.
never heard of daemoness. cool name. Really sucks about your experience with agile, I'm still wating to find one and play one in person before i make the jump. I may just hold out and go for one of those new gibson LP baritones
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never heard of daemoness. cool name. Really sucks about your experience with agile, I'm still wating to find one and play one in person before i make the jump. I may just hold out and go for one of those new gibson LP baritones
Oh dude...you are in for a treat!
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001492372646
Check out the image galleries, and if you want to know how damn good they are, ask our very own Nolly who owns a couple.
The custom Dylan just completed for Misha Mansoor (Bulb) is beyond beautiful!
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.241984055861338.61727.100001492372646&type=3
Site here:
http://www.daemonessguitars.co.uk/gallery.php
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Haven't checked the Daemoness site in a while. The 7 string atlantean with the knotwork inlays is effing incredible.
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I've started a few topics about my Baritone which WezV made. Its called the Vociferator and takes influence from the SG and the viper. It's a multiscale instrument (which is surprisingly natural to play and I would absolutely, without hesitation and thoroughly recommend!) with 26.5 to 28" scale lengths.
Here's one topic:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14815.0
and here are a couple of pics
(I've just realised the old pics are no longer available, will see about uploading some new ones somewhere, but I've attached a couple here to keep you going)
Getting the guitar custom made was a really great process - WezV is a consumate professional and I couldn't be happier. I'm sure there are some local luthiers around your way who have the same philosophy! Don't necessarily rule it out as too expensive - you may be surprised.
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PS since those pics it now has an aftermath in it, which not only looks the beans but also sounds utterly fantastic! The Black Dog was also great, I just fancied a change and something with a bit more oomph :)
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I used to play baritone guitar on three songs with the country rock band until we decided to remove two of these songs from the set list. After that I thought it was not worth to bring another instrument for just one song.
Of course the baritone was always played clean in that context.
Cheers Stephan
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Rob Flynn Baritone V 27 inch scale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNyveFH1U58
worth checking out although you might not like the paint job
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Rob Flynn Baritone V 27 inch scale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNyveFH1U58
worth checking out although you might not like the paint job
very cool sounds, but not my thing at all. the graphics and the shape. Never been much of a V fan. I am pretty sure I am going to get the Gibson LP. I am still strongly considering ordering a BC Rich custom shop. Probably go with a Wave shape with a 28 inch scale and a kahler tremolo. If i go forward, the gibson will be a great guitar while i wait for the custom BC Rich to be done.
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I never really considered B.C Rich customs, how pricey do they get? Also how "custom" can you take them?
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they're do just about anything you want except make you a new shape due to ownership rights issues. They used to before HMG took them over. But they'll do just about anything to any of their models. prices creep past 4k (USA) pretty quick though. I have ordered 2 and love them both. I've owned a total of 4 HMG era USA handmades and none of them have disappointed. There were some horror stories of orders getting lost and being messed up in the late Bernie JR Era and early HMG transition era, 1999-2003 but they got it all sorted out now. They were changing shop locations and i guess shitee happens sometimes.
Here is the first guitar I ordered in 2007 and received in early 2008
2008 Mockingbird with Beast Headstock
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Necrite_ist_Krieg/104_0570.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Necrite_ist_Krieg/100_0237.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Necrite_ist_Krieg/100_0236.jpg)
Here is the 2nd and my go to #1 guitar. Took nearly a year to be completed but was well worth the wait
2009 Ironbird
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Necrite_ist_Krieg/104_0572.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Necrite_ist_Krieg/100_0241.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Necrite_ist_Krieg/100_0265.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Necrite_ist_Krieg/tb_ironbird_5.jpg)
I bought this Virgin used and kick myself almost everyday for selling it.
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Necrite_ist_Krieg/100_1198.jpg)
Also bought this 2009 Ignitor used, couldnt get into the shape after getting over the novelty of it being the RAREST of BCR shapes
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m54/Necrite_ist_Krieg/100_0404.jpg)
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Oh man those Customs are beautiful! I love the direction of the quilt on the Ironbird. Amazing stuff, dude, lovely guitars! Thanks for the info!
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thanks bro. I always say "Get (BC) Rich or Die trying" :lol:. I think the plan is to buy the gibbo and get a custom build going as well.
Here are the specs i've been kicking around
Virgin standard Baritone
Alder wings
Maple Neck through
Traditional 3+3 Headstock with Rosewood Overlay
quilt top
Ebony fretboard
No Inlays
28" scale
13-62 gauge strings tuned B standard
2 Dimarzio Humbuckers
Volume, 3way toggle, tone
Top Hat knobs
Black hardware
Kahler tremolo
Grover Super Rotomatics (Imperials)
Satin Black finish
"R" Logo
Virgin Bass case
2nd Idea
Wave deluxe Baritone
Mahogany Wings
Mahogany neck through
NO TOP
Traditional Headstock with rosewood overlay
Ebony fretboard
Diamond MOP inlays
28" scale
13-62 gauge strings tuned B standard
2 Dimarzio Humbuckers
partial active mockingbird style circuit
Top Hat knobs
Black hardware
Kahler tremolo
Grover Super Rotomatics (Imperials)
Tobacco burst finish
"R" Logo
Wave bass case
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Both awesome spec, but forgive me, I never liked the Virgin shape, heh. I guess some B.C Rich shapes are a bit like Marmite: you either love them or hate them. :)
I'm much more of a "traditional" B.C. Rich man, in that I absolutely love the Mockingbird, Bich, Eagle and Wave shapes. I do own two Warlocks, though, those are my fave of their pointy shapes along with the Ironbird.
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warlocks are among the nicest shapes ever made.
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Both awesome spec, but forgive me, I never liked the Virgin shape, heh. I guess some B.C Rich shapes are a bit like Marmite: you either love them or hate them. :)
I'm much more of a "traditional" B.C. Rich man, in that I absolutely love the Mockingbird, Bich, Eagle and Wave shapes. I do own two Warlocks, though, those are my fave of their pointy shapes along with the Ironbird.
all good. As a die hard bc rich fan, i love nearly all of them and hope to have one of all someday. I must say i hate the warbeast, zombie, and the wrath
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Good lord those BC Riches are gorgeous! Have you posted some more info on the 3-pickup Mock you're selling on here? PM'd, by the way..