Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: sambo on January 27, 2006, 08:30:02 PM
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ok so im using the exact phrase that 'badgermark' used to describe nickleback in another thread- "money-loving whores". this poll is not about liking/dislking nickleback or their music its about whether you think they are money lovers or not...
im assuming most people on here know exactly what i mean by money-lovers but for those who arent sure heres an example, again another quote from our friend badgermark...
"nickleback wrote someday to sound almost exactly like this is how(...) on purpose. they saw it was a hit and apparently based the whole song as a rip off of themselfs. the bridges/choruses/breakdown sections are all roughly at the same place, it has the same sorta progressions, and the same lyrical subject matter.
nickleback are money loving whores"
so there you have it- thats the kind of thing money-loving whores do...(apparently)
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Yeah, I agree with badger, although more toned down. They right generic AM radio hits, that they know will be successful. I don't consider that to be 'art', rather more of a profession, in which case then they are success hungry, why? success = money, so therefore they are money hungry. at least thats my take on it. I wouldn't call them artists, basically, the music they make is so generic that its hard to detect any true individual personality within the music, an individual voice.
Also, don't take it so much to heart that he dissed Nickelback :wink:
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Dude you know they are APPAULING. its not even interesting to listen to when all the songs are the same, and they're all rubbish!
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lol i didnt take it to heart dude its just that i really dont see how he can have so much faith in a story he heard somewhere.. thats like believeing everything you read in The Sun. also, i dunno how much of their stuff youve heard but nickleback have some really different songs which are DEFINATELY not generic radio hits... for example.. 'because of you' 'never again' 'where do i hide' 'flat on the floor' e.t.c e.t.c....
the only thing i would say is that the only songs they release as singles are their less heavy, more pop/generic ones which could be perceived as money-loving but in my view its just being clever- targeting and audience and producing music that suits that audience well. i mean ive heard people on this forum saying that they respect mcfly for the same thing- doing a certain job well, but i dont see mcfly being described as money-lovers. and in my mind mcfly are FAR more generic and FAR less like artists than nickleback...
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Dude you know they are APPAULING. its not even interesting to listen to when all the songs are the same, and they're all rubbish!
Indy speaks the truth :D
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ok 2 major thing wrong with that quote from indy...."they are ALL the same"... 1.) thats just ignorant because there is NO WAY that ALL their songs sound the same- compare photograph to learn how to crawl for example.. (not that you can because i ebt youve never even heard both those songs) 2.) you havent listened to ALL their songs anyway so you cant possibly say that they're all rubbish.
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ok 2 major thing wrong with that quote from indy...."they are ALL the same"... 1.) thats just ignorant because there is NO WAY that ALL their songs sound the same- compare photograph to learn how to crawl for example.. (not that you can because i ebt youve never even heard both those songs) 2.) you havent listened to ALL their songs anyway so you cant possibly say that they're all rubbish.
I've heard alot of them (my sister likes em) and they actually do sound very similar, typical cheesy cr@p rock :lol: I HATE when the singer fades in his gritty "ooooohh"' 's !
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i hate nickelback now
I have th album with "how you remind me" on it, and i liked it. I also like the song "leader of men" off their first album (although i've never got round to getting the album), but their more recent stuff (3rd and 4th albums), singles anyway (i haven't bought the albums!) have been just terrible- they used to be a rock band, now they're just writing hits to get into th charts, it's so tame (even compared to their own earlier stuff, that i'm sure a lot of other people consider "tame"!).
Rant over- i just hate it when a band i quite like totally sells out to sell more records and alienates the people who got them where they are, the "real" fans (not tha't i'd go so far as to say i was a fan, but i did like them, at one point).
:twisted:
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i completely agree with you- i even said in my earlier posts- all their singles are written to target the pop audience.... but you admitted you hadnt heard their recent albums and their music in general is NOT generic or manufactured believe me. and as for tom... in what way do you find them similar? ok so you dont like chad kroeger... but i really dont share your view on the similarities.. what albums/singles have u lsitened to?
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^nickelback's old singles (IMO) WEREN'T generic, toned down pseudo rock, and now they are.
I don't HAVE to go by the new albums, even judging by the singles, they've sold out.
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Their very first album "Curb" is much better than any others (still not my cup of tea though). The lead guitarist can shred aswell I believe (my sister has the live dvd :roll: ) Not that shredding is anything to go by..
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i thought curb was their second album... silver side up the first wasnt it?
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i think their first album on a major label was the one with leader of men on it (can't remember the name offhand! :oops: or maybe it'd be :oops: if i did know it!), silver side up was (definitely) their second major label album.
They may have had one album on an independent label, it's rings a vague bell that they might, but again i'm far from certain.
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lol sorry dave.. didnt mean for it to sound like you SHOULD have heard the recent albums...
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^ :lol:
cheers, sambo!
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i think their first album on a major label was the one with leader of men on it (can't remember the name offhand! :oops: or maybe it'd be :oops: if i did know it!), silver side up was (definitely) their second major label album.
They may have had one album on an independent label, it's rings a vague bell that they might, but again i'm far from certain.
Its called the State :lol: I'm embarrased I know so much about em
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Its called the State :lol: I'm embarrased I know so much about em
yeah, that's the one!
curb probably was their first (indie label?), then, the state the second, and silver side up their third.
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I liked some of their early stuff but now all their song sound the same with alot of whining in it. I does sound alot like Bon Jovi and Britney Spears. Same song writer perhaps? It's known that Bon Jovi and Britney share a songwriter. :evil:
Also, they take on every endorsement (read: sponsor deal with loads of free stuff) deal they can get their hands on.
When they asked Chad in an interview why he played PRS, the answer was: "Because I get them for free"
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Well they probably are, but they're just trying to make a living. Remember, bills don't pay themselves :wink: plus with the life style they're living, you need alot of money to fund it. It's a shame they sacrifice good song writing for generic pop rock cliches but oh well :D
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Jeebus, i make one post here and the next day we have one pissed nickleback fan and a shite load of arguments.
I read the interview i mentioned in a pretty decent magazine (to be honest it was probably total guitar, i'll hunt about for it later), and was a direct quote, they really did write someday as a direct copy, e.g 'hey guys! lets have a quiet intro, a lil louder verse and rock out for the chorus! oh and put a simple breakdown in, the ladies LOVE it!'*
i didnt mean to offend you sambo, if you like the band then fine, i'm not judging anyone at all, for example, i bet 90% of people here would mock me if i came out and said i hate guitar solos and love pop bands like modest mouse and death cab for cutie :wink:
* note, this is a dramatisation of (possibly) real events**
**ie, i made it up.
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OK,
NOT A NB huge fan or anything and music is subjective so NOT gonna get into that but.
1. Why not make as much money as ya can while ya can (might be short lived)
2. Saw them live recently in Houston (Buzzfest 2006) and they BLEW away Audioslave live!!!!!!! Blew em away! I saw the Audioslave in Cuba film and now saw them live and Chris IMO cannot sing live even close to his recordings!. NB put on one hell of a SHOW (old fashioned rock with fire,flashes etc.) Also, being in Texas they played homage to Pantera and handed out free Beer (R.I.P. Dime).
3. If you were given free PRS to play, would'nt you? ;)
4. USA is the major market for them so of course they are radio friendly, but live they KICKED ASS.
Anyway, I always think the live show is what a band is really about, then producers and record exec's have less to do with a "product".
Just my insight :)
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well thank you dakine and steve!!! im not thanking you cause i think your taking my side or anything its just your looking at it from a neutral, more realistic point of view... and fair enough badgermark...
btw i wasnt pissed off because you were insulting nickelback it was the WAY that you insulted nickelback... i would feel exactly the same if it was about a band that i didnt like at all....anyway... i think its time that the subject of nickelback was closed now and never raised again lol.
p.s dakine- i know what you mean about nickelback live- they're AMAZING!
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Take a listen to this, it's been around for quite a while. :lol:
http://odeo.com/audio/61326/view
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I don't like them, but so what if they are money loving whores, why shouldn't they be? The music business is not about music, it's about money. What is the problem with them? What have they done wrong?
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The music business is not about music
BUT IT SHOULD BE. ITS BLASPHEMY TO DOCTOR ART JUST SO THAT IT SELLS - MUSIC AND ANY ART IS MEANT TO BE A FORM OF EXPRESSION, NOT A PLOT FOR MATERIAL GAIN. nickelback's crime is posing as artists when they are nothing more than MONEY LOVING WHORES
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dude dont get into this again!!! i proved you wrong on msn i can prove you wrong again and again! you have no evidence ALL your information (like i said before) is just passed on from other people or just gossip! like various other REASONABLE people have said- who cares if they make a little extra money for themselves- most people in their situation would (like you said yourself!). its ridiculous for you to say that they are wrong to be greedy and then turn around and say "all of us want more money and power" like you said in another post!!! it doesnt make sense!!! i think you need to go away and actually THINK about what you are saying before you just blurt out loads of things that you are so sure are correct just because they're your opinion!
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I think some need a reality checkup.
Look, here's the deal. Ya take a contract and then have to abide by it.
If you are NOT commercial you will not do too well.
If you are not pleasant to listen to you will NOT sell any records and will be dumped.
This is business and VERY complex.
A little aside. I was in a band back in the day. We gigged,we had a manager and we were having FUN. Then our manager got hold of a backer to get a contract. One day I walk in (past a Rolls ROyce in the parking lot) and the manager says he wants me to meet the "backer" (rest of band was already there, and NOT hooting and hollering about it). I then get introduced to CHARLIE KRAY (older brother of the Kray twins). I left the band that day.
When you go from hobby to pro. you jump into a pool full of sharks. If you can make some money, do it. It's not as if NB was playing "hardcore" or anything then went soft for radio.
Good lord, it is VERY complex.
Of course everyone is entiteld to their own opinion, just remember all is often NOT what it may seem.
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The minute you sign a contract, thats when it becomes a business. And lets face it, I think we all would like to get signed.
Of course, there are varying degress of corporatisation of music; but it is still a presence the minute you sign on that dotted line. That's just a simple fact, your music starts to become commodified at the point you agree to recieve money for it based on sales.
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The music business is not about music
BUT IT SHOULD BE. ITS BLASPHEMY TO DOCTOR ART JUST SO THAT IT SELLS - MUSIC AND ANY ART IS MEANT TO BE A FORM OF EXPRESSION, NOT A PLOT FOR MATERIAL GAIN. nickelback's crime is posing as artists when they are nothing more than MONEY LOVING WHORES
But it's not, and it never really has been, that's the way it is, and that's the way it will always be, so don't get your nickers in a twist about it. Money talks. If some record company boss spotted you and your band playing, thought you had talent, offered you a deal, you take it. Then they tell you what to do, what to wear, what to look like, and even buy songs for you, you just do as your told, and if you're lucky, you'll make lots of money. This is how things work in popular music. Maybe if nickelback expressed their music the way they wanted to, they'd still be playing in shitety pubs and rock clubs, and what good is that?
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Maybe if nickelback expressed their music the way they wanted to, they'd still be playing in shitety pubs and rock clubs, and what good is that?
Well, they wouldn't be on the radio for a start... :lol: :wink:
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Well i think you guys' opinions on music suck to be honest. You're all assuming that everyone wants to sell out, and those who don't are failures, playing bars and clubs? thats where the music belongs. Bars and Clubs are at the music's roots; the people who fish it out and kill the music with their money so that its suitable for MTV suck just as hard. Sure, we all want money; but I'd take no sum to sell out and do what they tell me to :shock:
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Well there must be a lot of very successful bands that didnt "sell out" and start making cr@p music.. ACDC anyone?! Rage Against the Machine (unless you count Audioslave as selling out)?! I cant think of any more now but there must be some :lol:
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ah the old art/business debate. I just love it when that happens.
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whats so bad about being on the radio :? ??? maybe if its a specific station like radio 1 or something stupid but most good and bad rock bands are played on radio stations all the time!!!
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well i dont think everyone wants to sell out but i think that money influences most bands/artists choices a lot. i know what your saying about how music belongs in the small pubs/clubs but when bands become big and maybe make some extra money for themselves, what are they doing wrong??? theres a big difference between being a bit greedy and "selling out". after all if a band like nickelback create two songs that are almost identical, and are both extremely successful then you cant criticise them, because their giving the fans what they want- isnt that what music is about instead of the size of venue?
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I just thought about my post above and thought - pretty much all of ACDCs songs are similar :lol:
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actually quite a lot of em are now you mention it...
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Don't even begin to compare Nickelback to AC/DC, we're talking a WHOLE different ball game here. Thats just talking the piss mate.
:twisted:
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hahah I know, ACDC havent sold out or anything but alot of their songs are very similar to each other is all I was saying. They are more successful than Nickelback (I'm guessing) and didnt sell out.. So you dont have to sell out to make big money!
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Ummm, similar songs?
Can we say Status Quo ROFLMAO
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haha status quo i forgot about them!!!
what exactly does everyone here understand as "selling out"??? for example would you say selling out is going to TOTP or MTV or is it more than that- like producing generic hits or whatever??
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Selling out = accepting a contract which then puts business control in the hands of "bean counters". Anyone, anyone who thinks ANYTHING else is dillusional!!!!!!!!! As soon as a business and money is involved you NEVER have full control again.
So, therefore every single band/performer who has a contract is a Sell Out by definition.
Go chew that over.
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Dakine, spot on, exactly what I was trying to say earlier on.
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I always thought of selling out as when you change your music style radically in order to please more people.. I guess thats what your defenition says but I cant really explain it, someone else may be able to better.
I dont really care about this topic anymore I wish I never posted in it :lol:
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lol tom.
to add to what you said dakine: theres a reason why everyone calls it the music 'business' and thats because just like any other business the overall goal is make more money!
im not sure that changing your style of music radically to please more people is selling out becuase if it pleases more people then surely they are making 'better'/more successful music and are therefore 'better'/more successful musicians/band?
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Look at it this way.
I hold several belts in Martial Arts and used to compete.
When someone won a title, did that make them the Best/Champion? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
There is ALWAYS someone who does not want/need to compete,go into public eye who is BETTER.
Same with musicians. There is ALWAYS someone better.
If you choose to play out in a band, then go pro., you have made a choice.
Good luck to ya.
But business is business!
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Overkill, Destruction, VoiVod, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Hammerfall, Cradle OF Filth, Judas Priest... all successfull bands who never sold out, and always kept doing what they want and enjoy! (theres more, those are my metally biased names i had to to hand :P).
I disagree with dakine (maybe cos i like bands who have always done what they wanted... and even lost record contracts because of not doing like they were told... and bands who self release alot and whos record labels are simply a means of distributing their music to bigger audience)
And i disagree with those who confuse selling out with 'gaining popularity'.
And with those who bash bands which pop up during trends..
eg Bullet For My Valentine were VERY well known and respected just for their live performances way before the whole 'melodic hardcore' (or whatever) trend came out about.
The reason bands 'pop up suddenly' is that once ONE band makes waves and starts selling, every record company wants a piece of the cake and scours bars\pubs\the live scene to find a similar band whos pretty good.. then they make them an offer, shove mr marketing behind them and hey presto they appear on TV aswell! Just happens some are better than others...
Its not selling out, its being able to do what you love and get paid for it.
A sell out would be: "hey, you guys cut your hair, and sing this song our producer wrote and we'll give you money and let you have some of your own tracks on the cd aswell!!"
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^i agree with chrisola
i still say nickelback sold out, though, on the basis that i used to like them and now they suck.
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^i agree with chrisola
i still say nickelback sold out, though, on the basis that i used to like them and now they suck.
+1 pretty much. Now lets end this thread before it gets violent :lol:
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There's nothing wrong with being on the radio. Ask yourself the following question: Where will Nickelback be in 20 years?
What's 'in' today is 'out' tomorrow.
Have listen to some well known classic albums. All of them still sound fresh today.
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:roll:
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I was merely trying to make a sweeping (but often quite accurate) statement.
Sure "some" bands DO manage to retain intergrety, but many (due to their management,knowledge,leverage etc.) get badgered/made to do the "puppet" thing for the bean counters :)
ANyway, this whole thing is about moot.
Like NB, buy their stuff.
Don't like em then don't :)
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good summary there dakine to finally draw this to a close! lol.
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3. If you were given free PRS to play, would'nt you?
No - nothing can take me away from my custom guitar. I can tell you now that nothing they could give me would be able to match it, this axe is made for me inside and out. I chose every single little part so it has exactly what I'd want from guitar. If I was made to play anything else on stage, I'd smash it up or something so I had to use my custom instead.
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3. If you were given free PRS to play, would'nt you?
No - nothing can take me away from my custom guitar. I can tell you now that nothing they could give me would be able to match it, this axe is made for me inside and out. I chose every single little part so it has exactly what I'd want from guitar. If I was made to play anything else on stage, I'd smash it up or something so I had to use my custom instead.
I like to choose my guitar, I don't want a guitar to choose me.
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yer but if you were offered free prs' then you wouldnt turn them down... you could just use it once on a song in a recording studio or something its not like you would be dramatically affected and have to change your gear completely. i spose there are some people that can honestly say they wouldnt accept free guitars and i commend them for that but if i was, no matter if i had a better guitar or not, i would DEFINATELY still take them.
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C'mon guys, this is getting silly!
EVH uses a Peavy, why? Cos they specd it like the EBMM that was computer designed for him and he already had a Peavy contract. I bet it's not a "standard" peavy though.
Alot here like Vai, he uses an Ibanez, why? Cos they asked him what he wanted and made it for him. Does he get them free? I reckon.
Not to mention Mr. I am everywhere and mostly drunk Wylde.
Maybe NB gets their PRS modded, maybe not. Point is, Product placement and sponsorship are part of the B U S I N E S S . C'mon, say it with me, you know you can :) ALOT (not ALL!!!!!!!, good lord gotta write like a darn lawyer now for fear of qoutations) successful bands/musicians make money by product endorsement. Does this mean you or I can purchase that exact same instrument? Sometimes but often not as exactly modded I would guess.
I am better with cars LOL (my upbringing). Do you think a Mitsubishi Evo VIII is the SAME rally car used in WRC? Hmmmm, nope. But is it marketed as a WRC rally car for the masses, hmmm, yep.
Stop nitty picking. Either like NB or don't.
I stand by seeing them live and enjoying myself. Do I worship them, have their posters on my wall, line up at 6am when their new cd comes out? NO! But I enjoyed their show.
Do I think they "sold out" ? I don't BL**DY care. I liked their show :)
Would I, if in the postion of being offered several guitars by several major comapnies take an endorsement? Probably YES.
1. They are free and come with $$$$$$$$$$$
2. They have almost infinate backup. Sure, nice to have your favourite guitar but if it is your almost Daily tool for work, hate for it to break,get lost etc. (dunno how Angus copes!!!!).
3. They are Customised.
4. You get Lots of em.
Downside, you have to do mag. and personal appearances for them :( uugghhh.
But, who cares. Good lord. To be bl**dy honest NB are Canadians which to the people here (in US) makes em second rate human beings anyway ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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P.S. on the old adage All Press/Coverage is Good Press/Coverage, to the casual reader/poster here NB are getting some real GOOD press by creating such a stir :)
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yer i think i've never really been one for the idea that music is all about the attitude/passion and the WAY you do things- i just care about whether i like the sound of something or not... a lot of people get pissed off about bands 'selling out' and being too manufactured but i really couldnt care less about that- (i know most 'hardcore' rock fans will be in outrage right now) i just listen to music i like and dont listen to stuff i dont like- and for me music doesnt go much further than that. i mean its not as if i take offense if a band takes loads of endorsements or changes its style- they have the right to do that and if i dont like how they change then ill just listen to something else. i think too many people believe in the whole "without us theyd be nothing and they have a commitment to stay loyal to us, the fans" thing which i personally think is a load of bo***cks- bands dont have any responsibility to keep true to their "roots" or whatever- they can do exactly what they want and if that means taking every endorsement they can get their hands on and becoming a pop band then thats their choice. its kind of strange actually how a lot of people have been saying that they dont like bands that are manufactured and get told what to do but respect bands that do what they want- well what if a band WANTS to change its style and does it regardless of its fans? most of the people i just described would probably say they are selling out or being disloyal to their fans so its a lose/lose situation for the band- stick with what they are doing to please the fans (which could not be what they really want to do- which could be seen as being money-loving) or take their music in the direction they want to go and be accused of being disloyal to the fans and selling out.
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Just to chuck in my $0.02 artistic integrety dosn't make you rich (not very often anyway).
However if you are a commercial success not every track you do has to be pre chewed pap.
If you have commercial success you are in a position to produce worthwhile album tracks and B sides. As long as the record company get their 2 or 3 singles of an album they don't seem to give a shite.
Look at the Police if you want to see a band that had albums full of filler, apart from the singles their quality control was non existant.
As for songs it's not just the content but they way there preformed that also matters after all Richard Thompson does a killer version of 'Oops I did it again' and The Lords of the New church did an amazing version of Like a Virgin
However for all those who like me can't stand fake angst, anger and alienation try this from a couple of years ago.
http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00174.wmv
I feel so angry that I lave to put up with being paid to travel around the world, the girls, and the sponsorship deals :(
Kilby...
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ahahahaha that vids hilarious.... even though its ridiculously harsh of the portugese....
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ahahahaha that vids hilarious.... even though its ridiculously harsh of the portugese....
From what I remember the band insisted that the food and drink stands where closed some 30 minutes before they where due to play (so the audiance would pay attention to them apparently) and that they took to the stage really late (I heard an hour).
I guess the audiance didn't react to well to the band demands upon the audience.
Oh Canada thank you for Nickleback, Deline Dion, Bryan Adams, Bare Naked Ladies, Neil Young and Rush
Well Rush and Neil Young I can tolerate, but the rest of them I ask you !
Rob...
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Oh Canada thank you for Nickleback, Deline Dion, Bryan Adams, Bare Naked Ladies, Neil Young and Rush
Well Rush and Neil Young I can tolerate, but the rest of them I ask you !
Rob...
Canada also gave us the wonderful Tea Party though, and that makes up for a multitude of sins. :)
Muttley
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Don't forget Avril Lavigne... :shock:
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Don't forget Avril Lavigne... :shock:
I had then you reminded me :(
Hmm theres another person who was moulded by the record company, started off as a country music act and then released a song that she couldn't spell
Rob...
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Don't forget Avril Lavigne... :shock:
As I said, a multitude of sins. ;) :P
Muttley
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Great vidio clip. :lol:
I wanna go home and listen to some rock n' roll. (while I'm having a beer and a hamburger)