Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: awesomeguy666 on November 21, 2011, 05:40:43 AM
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Hi, guys. I'm looking to replace my current amp, a Fender Mustang I (it sucks, but what do you expect for $100?). I now have a budget of about $1000, +/- $100. I need an amp with a tight bass, as I play rhythm with a lot of palm-muted alternate picking, and I like to be able to hear each note individually. I play mostly thrash metal (Kreator, Exodus, Sodom, Megadeth, Testament, Overkill, etc.), but I also need to be able to get some well-defined death metal tones (Death, Deicide, Cannibal Corpse, Behemoth, etc.). I don't care a lot about cleans, as long as they aren't very dirty (duh). I would prefer to get a combo amp. I want something that will perform well at lower volumes (I practice at home) but am willing to get an attenuator if necessary. Also, I need something that will be good for studio recording, as my band plans on releasing a demo sometime soon. Currently, I'm considering the Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo. From what I've heard, it seems to be a good solution. The only thing I'm a little worried about is the 6L6 tubes; I've heard that they can have a flabby bass and that the EL-34's would be better for the tone I'm going for. So if you have any good combo amps with EL-34's that you think would be good for my style, please don't hesitate to suggest them. Thanks a lot for you help.
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Buy the 6505. It's the amp I would pick if I were moving into more extreme styles.
Just remember : a 1x12 combo won't sound as huge as a 4x12 cab. Don't expect it to rattle the house.
For 1100$ (I suppose you're in the States?) you should be able to pick up a used half stack, no?
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Randall amps kicks ass. The RG150g3 is a very underrated amp. My best buddy, Loomer have started to use them exclusively!
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Randall amps kicks ass. The RG150g3 is a very underrated amp. My best buddy, Loomer have started to use them exclusively!
I would go for it, but notice that I said I would prefer a combo amp, preferably one under 100w simply because it's less of a hassle (weight). Also, I don't want complaints from the neighbors.
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If you're going to be playing at home, the 6505 really is a no-brainer.
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If you're going to be playing at home, the 6505 really is a no-brainer.
I'm pretty much set on the Peavey 6505+ 1x12 now. The only thing left now is to try it out at Guitar Center. Thanks for the help.
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A 60 watt power section VS a 120 watter isn't going to help much in the loudness department. There's only a 3db difference in clean headroom between 50 and 100 watts, can't imagine 60/120 being that much different. It's a good thing the 6505+ sounds good at bedroom levels. Please get a adjustable bias mod on that thing. Having those 6L6s running properly instead of biased super cold really brings out the beast. It's the easiest little circuit to put in, too. No amp tech should ever charge more than $50 for that.
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A 60 watt power section VS a 120 watter isn't going to help much in the loudness department. There's only a 3db difference in clean headroom between 50 and 100 watts, can't imagine 60/120 being that much different. It's a good thing the 6505+ sounds good at bedroom levels. Please get a adjustable bias mod on that thing. Having those 6L6s running properly instead of biased super cold really brings out the beast. It's the easiest little circuit to put in, too. No amp tech should ever charge more than $50 for that.
What do you mean by installing an adjustable bias mod? Sorry, I know nothing about tube amps.
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My 60 watt Vypyr have 2 6L6's and they don't come across as flabby. I let them warm up for 5 mins before playing and they seem really consistent at any volume level. But my pre amp is solid state with a single 12AX7 tube used for effects not gain and I've heard you need some volume in 6505's to get them sounding good. That's going to be LOUD in a bedroom as I don't have my Vypyr past 1 on master volume with full gain and it goes to 13 so I can imagine how loud a 60 watt 6505 would be.
I know it's tough to compare a Vypyr to a 6505 combo but based upon what I'm doing at present then a 6505 seems the way to go as I like a lot of those bands mentioned. 6505 for high gain and the versatile Vypyr would keep me happy for many a year. I need to go play one myself.
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A 60 watt power section VS a 120 watter isn't going to help much in the loudness department. There's only a 3db difference in clean headroom between 50 and 100 watts, can't imagine 60/120 being that much different. It's a good thing the 6505+ sounds good at bedroom levels. Please get a adjustable bias mod on that thing. Having those 6L6s running properly instead of biased super cold really brings out the beast. It's the easiest little circuit to put in, too. No amp tech should ever charge more than $50 for that.
What do you mean by installing an adjustable bias mod? Sorry, I know nothing about tube amps.
Peavey doesn't have proper power tube biasing for any of these 6505 series amps. They have it permanently set very very cold to induce crossover distortion and help obtain the browned out EVH sound. Now if you or a local amp tech replaces the stock resistor with a smaller one and a potentiometer(like in most amps), you have the ability to adjust the power tube bias much warmer. In the end, it adds a lot of meat to the sound and helps reduce the fizzy nature of the 5150.
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Randall amps kicks ass. The RG150g3 is a very underrated amp. My best buddy, Loomer have started to use them exclusively!
Yup, this. Mine is a G2 though, but still. Massively underrated amps, I say.
Other than that, I'd say the 6505/5150 is a good bet in any case. It's been the de rigeur metal amp for the more "regular" sorts of metal for decades now.
EDIT: Just re-read the post and saw you needed something bedroom worthy. Then I say AVOID THE 6505 LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!! Your neighbours will hate you for playing too loud, and you'll hate yourself for shelling out that much cash for an amp which will only ever sound like arse because it can't be "opened up" properly.
If you're just practicing at home, buy something smaller, like one of those 1 watt Blackstar amps, or an Orange Dark Terror. Yes, I know you mentioned power attenuators in the other thread, but I seriously doubt they'll be able to go that low in volume.
What this does though, is make Madsakre's idea of a Solid-State Randall of some sort make even more sense. My RH100G2 can easily go down to bedroom levels and still sound the same, unlike a tube amp. However, it is very much gig-worthy once it's turned up properly, even at the completely ludicrous volume levels my band plays and rehearses at. The best part is, you can find them for very cheap, most places. Maybe even find a new one at a clearance sale somewhere! Seriously, you need to do this. Really. You'll thank me later.
tl;dr: Tube amps are the last thing you need in your situation.
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I think I had the Randall RG200G2 - it died on me after about 3 rehearsals, then I got the 5150-II (=6505+) with a 4 x 12 and never looked back. 200W solid state just doesn't hold a candle to the all tube 120W head muahaha.
But for bedroom playing, yeah you're right a combo is a good idea. Don't worry about 6L6s being flabby. They aren't. I defy anyone to play my setup and make it sound flabby how I have it set up. Even I can't make it sound bad, and I'm terrible! :)
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A 60 watt power section VS a 120 watter isn't going to help much in the loudness department. There's only a 3db difference in clean headroom between 50 and 100 watts, can't imagine 60/120 being that much different. It's a good thing the 6505+ sounds good at bedroom levels.
+1
if anything my 100 watt engl sounds better than my 50 laney at low volumes. the wattage doesn't seem to have all that much to do with super-low volume tones, it's the design of the amp/preamp.
where lower wattage amps might sound better is the size of teh gig- if the gig is big enough to turn up a 20 watter to where it starts to sound awesome, but not a 50 or 100 watter, then buying the 20 watter makes sense. But for bedroom volume, just buy whatever sounds best at that volume, regardless of the wattage.
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I think I had the Randall RG200G2 - it died on me after about 3 rehearsals, then I got the 5150-II (=6505+) with a 4 x 12 and never looked back. 200W solid state just doesn't hold a candle to the all tube 120W head muahaha.
But for bedroom playing, yeah you're right a combo is a good idea. Don't worry about 6L6s being flabby. They aren't. I defy anyone to play my setup and make it sound flabby how I have it set up. Even I can't make it sound bad, and I'm terrible! :)
Odd.. Mine has survived 30+ gigs and a tour so far.
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I want to make one thing clear: I just want to be able to turn the amp up to about 4 or 5 so that the tubes can get the best sound out. I'm not looking to turn it up above that.
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ampeg VL1002. enough said
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I've deleted several attempts at a concise and informative post without going to far in any one direction. In response to your last post..... Go play it first, man. Just hear it with your own guitar and your own hands and then decide if something needs fixing or if it's even the amp for you at all.
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I want to make one thing clear: I just want to be able to turn the amp up to about 4 or 5 so that the tubes can get the best sound out. I'm not looking to turn it up above that.
and as i thought i made clear in your other thread, with most valve amps, 4 or 5 more or less is full volume. they normally only get more saturated above that.
4 or 5 with a lower wattage tube amp is still LOUD, certainly in a home environment.
:)
I know you've heard a lot of people say that tube amps need to be turned up to sound good (and to a certain extent and for certain applications that's true), but don't forget, a lot of people saying that either play a type of music where power tube distortion is more desirable, or use amps where it's more of a necessity.
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4 or 5 on a 6505 is going to hurt your ears in a bedroom environment.
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The 5150/6505 gets most of its tone from the preamp.
I've had three, and they all sounded roughly the same, no matter how loud they were. Of course, set to a whisper they didn't sound very good, but the speaker plays some part in that as well.
The 6505+ combo seems to me to be designed for lower volume use, even with its 60w power rating. I've never owned one, but gave one in the store a pretty thorough testing. It sounded quite good at store friendly levels, which isn't all that loud.
I could also recommend the Carvin V3MC, but I don't want to sound like a zealot :D
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Alright, thanks.
So currently in consideration: Peavey 6505+, Peavey Triple XXX, Marshall JCM800
I'm going for a tone similar to Sodom's Agent Orange, Sadus's Chemical Exposure, Kreator's Enemy of God (with a little less bass), Tankard's Beast of Bourbon, and Exodus's Bonded by Blood.
For good examples of tone from each album (in order): Agent Orange, Certain Death, Enemy of God, Die With a Beer in Your Hand, A Lesson In Violence.
I really love the definition heard in Bonded by Blood, but I also want the "presence" heard in Chemical Exposure, Enemy of God (with a little less bass), and Beast of Bourbon.
I know that part of the tone comes from technique, which is why I've been working for the past few months to perfect my picking articulation.
Again, thanks a lot for your help.
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ampeg VL1002. enough said
How about an AMPEG SS-140C or VH-140C? I found a few covers on YouTube and I love the tone. I couldn't find any good vids (showing thrash/death tones) for the V-1002.
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Here's a modern recording of a 5150 playing thrash riffs in standard with EMGs(81/85).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbGNfJM5wyw&feature=relmfu
Same band, same guitarists using Seymour Duncans(JB and ?neck?) and Marshalls, JVM for the rhythm and Plexi on the leads, iirc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXdPoL1yQsA&feature=relmfu
Hopefully that can clear things up some about what sort of gain structure you are looking for. All of those bands you listed use different amps. Mostly Marshally and Peaveyish sounds so, unless you're looking for several amps, pick one. I'd lean towards the 5150/6505 for your needs.
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Thanks for those links. I'm now leaning towards the Peavey 6505 because it has a tighter tone, and in my opinion, it blends in with the double bass better. Also I like the sound of the downpicked palm-muted notes a lot more on the Peavey.
EDIT: I just found an AMPEG VH-140C 2x12 Combo on Craigslist for $450. There's a good chance I'll get it.
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ampeg VL1002. enough said
How about an AMPEG SS-140C or VH-140C? I found a few covers on YouTube and I love the tone. I couldn't find any good vids (showing thrash/death tones) for the V-1002.
the solid stae amps are afmous for death metal tone, but they are not loud enough at all for what i do. the VL series is basically a super hot rodded marshall witha a realliy nice clean channel too. Lee Jackson designed them and was pretty much single handedly responsible for the beginning of high gain amp movement in the late 80's. They are relatvily inexpensive and to me sound way better than most amps 3x the price. I would buy them over any ENGL, recto, mark series, 5150, marshall, orange, rivera, if i were playing metal. to be honest there are only a handfull of amps i like better than it and they're way more expensive than it. the VHT pittbull, Bogner uberschall, Fortin, bones, Saldano SLO, Yamaha T100, Knucklehead tre, and the new Houghs and ketner
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Alright, thanks for that bit of info. However, I'd still like to know the difference between the VL1002, the VH-140C and the SS-140C. Thanks, man.
Also, I am very strongly leaning towards the VH-140C from the demos I've seen. I found a 2x12 combo on my local Craigslist for $450.
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Alright, thanks.
So currently in consideration: Peavey 6505+, Peavey Triple XXX, Marshall JCM800
I'm going for a tone similar to Sodom's Agent Orange, Sadus's Chemical Exposure, Kreator's Enemy of God (with a little less bass), Tankard's Beast of Bourbon, and Exodus's Bonded by Blood.
For good examples of tone from each album (in order): Agent Orange, Certain Death, Enemy of God, Die With a Beer in Your Hand, A Lesson In Violence.
I really love the definition heard in Bonded by Blood, but I also want the "presence" heard in Chemical Exposure, Enemy of God (with a little less bass), and Beast of Bourbon.
I know that part of the tone comes from technique, which is why I've been working for the past few months to perfect my picking articulation.
Again, thanks a lot for your help.
It looks that you are almost on Marshall side..Boosted JCM 800/900 were used on most records in that era...However Exodus used XXX after Marshalls and now they play Engls but they still use moded Marshalls in studio..Mile Petrosa from Kreator plays Engls as well...5150/6505 is quite popular amp these days and if you want that modern brutal tone go for it...But for bands which you mentioned I would choose XXX no doubt...Engl Blackmore or Savage will do job well too..
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Alright, thanks. That gives me 3 amps to try out at GC: the XXX (or 3120), 6505, and the Crate GX-130C, which I've heard is the same thing as the Ampeg VH-140C. Again, thanks for all of your help.
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Alright, thanks.
So currently in consideration: Peavey 6505+, Peavey Triple XXX, Marshall JCM800
I'm going for a tone similar to Sodom's Agent Orange, Sadus's Chemical Exposure, Kreator's Enemy of God (with a little less bass), Tankard's Beast of Bourbon, and Exodus's Bonded by Blood.
For good examples of tone from each album (in order): Agent Orange, Certain Death, Enemy of God, Die With a Beer in Your Hand, A Lesson In Violence.
I really love the definition heard in Bonded by Blood, but I also want the "presence" heard in Chemical Exposure, Enemy of God (with a little less bass), and Beast of Bourbon.
I know that part of the tone comes from technique, which is why I've been working for the past few months to perfect my picking articulation.
Again, thanks a lot for your help.
It looks that you are almost on Marshall side..Boosted JCM 800/900 were used on most records in that era...However Exodus used XXX after Marshalls and now they play Engls but they still use moded Marshalls in studio..Mile Petrosa from Kreator plays Engls as well...5150/6505 is quite popular amp these days and if you want that modern brutal tone go for it...But for bands which you mentioned I would choose XXX no doubt...Engl Blackmore or Savage will do job well too..
I read that Mille Petrozza played a Peavey 6505 in studio for one of Kreator's albums. Also, note my budget. The ENGL's are WAY out of my range. I rather like the modern brutal tone, as you put it, just as long as I have my picking articulation heard.
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Yeah Engl are bit overpriced you´re right and quite modern sounding too but you can find some good deals in europe...If you are located in USA then Peavey 5150 seems to me best choice...I wouldn´t overlook some Mesa models as well because you can get them there realy cheap....
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I'm located in the U.S., so the ENGL's are not an option.
I haven't found any of the good Mesas available to me within budget (including tax and shipping), since none of them are nearby. Also, since I want to try before I buy, I doubt that I'll go for them. I know for a fact that my local GC has a Peavey 6505+ 112 combo, a Crate GX-130C (equivalent of Ampeg VH-140C), and possibly a Peavey XXX/JSX/3120. I can try them there. I've basically narrowed it down to these "three" options.
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Oh man... If you get an Ampeg VH140C I will die from jealousy :(
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Peavey XXX/JSX/3120. I can try them there. I've basically narrowed it down to these "three" options.
Do it man...You´ll be surpriced how good sounds XXX on rythm ch....100% EXODUS :twisted:
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Peavey XXX/JSX/3120. I can try them there. I've basically narrowed it down to these "three" options.
Do it man...You´ll be surpriced how good sounds XXX on rythm ch....100% EXODUS :twisted:
Do you know which albums Exodus recorded using the XXX? I'm guessing Tempo of the Damned or Shovel Headed Kill Machine onwards was using ENGL's, but if you have any more info about this, I'd love to hear it (my local GC may not have the XXX or 3120 in stock anymore).
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Yeah...On last 3 albums they used XXX for sure...Andy Sneap was producing these albums (at least last 2) so I think he used another reamped amp to mix double tracks together..Some people say he used Marshall DSL 100 for that purpose..When I saw them 5 years ago live they were still playing Peaveys....They switched to Engl after recording last album....
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Thanks, mate! :D
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Thanks, mate! :D
U welcome 8)
I love their sound too...I was searching for amp with similar sound I found that you can get close with Krank Revolution+...Check this song of my band....http://snd.sc/tPMKAj I used there Krank... I also use Engl E530 preamp (based on Savage) with E840 poweramp (it´s a lot cheaper than Savage or any 100W head) and it´s best thrash tone what I had ever...I also recomend to use active pickup to get right chunky tone....
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Thanks, mate! :D
U welcome 8)
I love their sound too...I was searching for amp with similar sound I found that you can get close with Krank Revolution+...Check this song of my band....http://snd.sc/tPMKAj I used there Krank... I also use Engl E530 preamp (based on Savage) with E840 poweramp (it´s a lot cheaper than Savage or any 100W head) and it´s best thrash tone what I had ever...I also recomend to use active pickup to get right chunky tone....
Again: budget problems. But I'm probably going for the XXX or 6505 at this point.
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peaveys are hard to beat for thrash, unless you really wanted the old school heavily boosted marshall JCM 800 tone with cranked boost pedals in the front
lot of metal bands used TWO boss super overdrives in series
if you go with peaveys, you also have two options... the roaring grind of the 5150 models or the dense and edgy tone of the ultra/xxx/3120/rockmaster family
both are amazing for thrash, but in quite different tastes
you could get great results with some of the older models, like the Triumph (which is a lot like a mesa mark III with some Peavey classic juice to it), the butcher (JCM 800 clone) or the VTM (hot rodded JCM)
those sell for quite cheap, so you could even buy two or three of them, depending on how much you wanna spend with cabinets
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Combos you should consider:
Peavey 6505+ 112 combo
Engl Gigmaster 30
Orange Th30
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peaveys are hard to beat for thrash, unless you really wanted the old school heavily boosted marshall JCM 800 tone with cranked boost pedals in the front
lot of metal bands used TWO boss super overdrives in series
if you go with peaveys, you also have two options... the roaring grind of the 5150 models or the dense and edgy tone of the ultra/xxx/3120/rockmaster family
both are amazing for thrash, but in quite different tastes
you could get great results with some of the older models, like the Triumph (which is a lot like a mesa mark III with some Peavey classic juice to it), the butcher (JCM 800 clone) or the VTM (hot rodded JCM)
those sell for quite cheap, so you could even buy two or three of them, depending on how much you wanna spend with cabinets
Oh yeah... Totally forgot about VTMs. Very awesome amps. Had those little dip switches that let you play around with a few values in the preamp circuitry without risk of getting fried. Now if only that had remained a popular option.......
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9042/1000853.jpg)
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peaveys are hard to beat for thrash, unless you really wanted the old school heavily boosted marshall JCM 800 tone with cranked boost pedals in the front
lot of metal bands used TWO boss super overdrives in series
if you go with peaveys, you also have two options... the roaring grind of the 5150 models or the dense and edgy tone of the ultra/xxx/3120/rockmaster family
both are amazing for thrash, but in quite different tastes
you could get great results with some of the older models, like the Triumph (which is a lot like a mesa mark III with some Peavey classic juice to it), the butcher (JCM 800 clone) or the VTM (hot rodded JCM)
those sell for quite cheap, so you could even buy two or three of them, depending on how much you wanna spend with cabinets
Oh yeah... Totally forgot about VTMs. Very awesome amps. Had those little dip switches that let you play around with a few values in the preamp circuitry without risk of getting fried. Now if only that had remained a popular option.......
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9042/1000853.jpg)
Not really much of a fan of the VTM's sound, or the Butcher's. They just seem like they won't go high gain enough without pedals.
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Whats your budget? i may have missed it
but how about a SLO clone
http://soundcloud.com/boyes/am
someone like Jackson RR could knock you one up i imagine as you are in the US
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Whats your budget? i may have missed it
but how about a SLO clone
http://soundcloud.com/boyes/am
someone like Jackson RR could knock you one up i imagine as you are in the US
That sounds very sexy. :P How much do they go for? Also, any specific clones in mind?
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Well it all depends on the parts used and the labour charges of whoever is doing it really.
but they can be competetively priced that one clip is of my Soldano SLO clone
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Well it all depends on the parts used and the labour charges of whoever is doing it really.
but they can be competetively priced that one clip is of my Soldano SLO clone
Ah. Then, that sounds unfeasible to me. :(
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why so?
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why so?
There is no proficient guitar tech/builder nearby. All I have is a Guitar Center, and they tend to overcharge for these kinds of things (i.e. services).
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Oh no i meant find an independant builder such as JacksonRR on here if he has the spare time im sure he could knock something up for you at a decent price depending how close you are it may have to be shipped etc but you will get a lot more amp for your money than buying something off the shelf
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they do occasionally pop up on ebay as well
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you could consider a Jet City JCA100H too and have it tweaked by someone - actually, even stock they kick serious arse.
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Yeah, the Jet Citys are some nice pieces. The new 20 watt line just got revamped with an effects loop and the same SLOish drive channel as the 100 watters. With an appropriate boost, I can't really see that failing you and maybe that could satisfy your cravings for power tube saturation.. I'm 30 mins north of Atlanta, GA and if there's anyway I can give you a hand, let me know.
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Yeah, the Jet Citys are some nice pieces. The new 20 watt line just got revamped with an effects loop and the same SLOish drive channel as the 100 watters. With an appropriate boost, I can't really see that failing you and maybe that could satisfy your cravings for power tube saturation.. I'm 30 mins north of Atlanta, GA and if there's anyway I can give you a hand, let me know.
Sadly, I live on the other side of the country. Also, no nearby Guitar Centers have the Jet City JCA22H. I'd already looked into that and ruled it out. Also, I've heard from most people that it's more of a rock amp than a metal amp, and since I can't try before I buy, it's no longer in consideration.
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Holy shite...I just brought home 5150 II head which I changed for my Engl racks yesterday...Crunch dimed all the way up is pure thrash...It sound quite similar to boosted JCM 800 /thicker/ and it can easy cover Slayer tone...Lead is pure brutal...It easy goes from Stuck Mojo to Suffocation with no boost...Bedroom is always issue but model II sound much better on low volume than 5150 original....
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Damn without budget restrictions I would say ENGL Savage 120 or Splawn Nitro or Quick Rod. But plenty of good suggestions and I'd say the 5150/6505 route is solid. Thrash Metal bands seem less on the 6L6 tone though, prefering cutting mids and crunch over the low end rumble. I'd retube whatever you get with KT88s or 6550 power tubes; a lot of thrash bands run amps on those tubes. EL34s are a good option as well; I just prefer the KT88s or 6550s. I had 6550s in a Peavy 5150 sig combo, and KT88s in a Meteoro MAK 3000 (facking 280 watts of MASSIVE dark tone; open chord palm mutes sounded like an anti-aircraft gun, and felt like the overpressure!).
My case for those tubes has credit: MAK 3000 is the Andreas Kisser amp, and Exodus recorded rhythym tracks with the Savage 120. Plus back when he was in business Derek of Rock Solid Amps of South Florida had a tone of awesome sample tracks of their boutique heavy amps and they nailed several different thrash tones, especially 80s thrash like ...And Justice for All and Master of Puppets, with the ENGL Savage 120, Fireball 60, Thunder, and Screamer. It's a damn shame they went out of business (and took down the website). There were plenty Exodus, Megadeth, Overkill, etc clips on that site each nailing the said tones with their own character added.
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Engl Savage 120!!!!
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I successfully snatched a used DV Mark Triple6 on Ebay yesterday for cheap,
to see how this new promising amp performs next to my 6505+.
http://www.dvmark.it/product_detail.php?id=19 (http://www.dvmark.it/product_detail.php?id=19)
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I successfully snatched a used DV Mark Triple6 on Ebay yesterday for cheap,
to see how this new promising amp performs next to my 6505+.
Please let us know how you like it and how it compares to the 6505+!!! I've been wanting to try one of these out for a while now, but just can't seem to find one to play through :?