Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: staringatthesun on November 28, 2011, 01:53:19 AM

Title: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: staringatthesun on November 28, 2011, 01:53:19 AM
I had a guitar tech install my new 7 string PK where an emg 81-7 used to be and it has way less output, sounds no where near as full and is flubby in comparison.  Does this mean it was not wired correctly or is it really way less output than an 81 or 707??  How do I know if its hooked up correctly?  Any help would be awesome!!!
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: 4Eyes on November 28, 2011, 08:29:46 AM
did your guitar tech changed also pots in your guitar?
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: darkbluemurder on November 28, 2011, 08:36:25 AM
I was thinking the exact same thing. Any passive pickup wired to 25k pots (which are the usual choice for active pickups) will sound very dull. With a powerful passive humbucker I would choose 500kA pots.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: Madsakre on November 28, 2011, 09:07:00 AM
Yes the Painkiller has less output than the EMG-81. It does not have its own preamp, since its a passive pickup.

Change the pots like the others say. I run with a 550k pot. The painkiller is my fav pickup.
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: Roobubba on November 28, 2011, 09:10:06 AM
I was thinking the exact same thing. Any passive pickup wired to 25k pots (which are the usual choice for active pickups) will sound very dull. With a powerful passive humbucker I would choose 500kA pots.

Cheers Stephan
I'd like to see a pot rated for 500kA! :D
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: Madsakre on November 28, 2011, 09:17:55 AM
that would be the most dangerous thing since mutant Man/crocodiles
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: darkbluemurder on November 28, 2011, 09:26:40 AM
I was thinking the exact same thing. Any passive pickup wired to 25k pots (which are the usual choice for active pickups) will sound very dull. With a powerful passive humbucker I would choose 500kA pots.

Cheers Stephan
I'd like to see a pot rated for 500kA! :D

The "A" in 500kA just denominates that it is a logarithmic or short "log" pot, as opposed to a 500kB, which would be a linear pot.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: Madsakre on November 28, 2011, 09:57:28 AM
I read it as 500.000 Ampere xD
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on November 28, 2011, 11:23:21 AM
Also check if the pickup is close enough to the strings  - the Ibanez 7 string I worked on last week was suffering with weak sound and the pickup was 3-4mm away from the strings.

Once adjusted closer it developed much more output

Remember that pickups sensitivity works on an inverse square rule - so double the distance results in a quarter of the output
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: staringatthesun on November 28, 2011, 10:37:39 PM
I almost guarantee that's what it is.  I even asked the tech the same thing.  So now do I get the 500 or 550?  What are the differences in sound?  U guys r awesome thanks for the good advice!
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: staringatthesun on November 28, 2011, 10:43:29 PM
Also, I am the one that installed the emg and I don't remember putting in new pots.  What I do remember is installing a green capacitor between the vol and tone pot.  It is still soldered in place.  Sorry to sound stupid but I bought this thing and installed the emg a long time ago.  Could the green capacitor be messin it up?  Should I just unsolder it?
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: Kiichi on November 28, 2011, 11:18:54 PM
It is true there are many awesome people on here. I have never been so active in a forum before and felt so good in one. This forum truely stands out for everything music related.

I donīt know about the cap and if green is some kind of colour code for a value, but donīt think that is your main problem.
If the 550 pots you are reffering to are the BKP ones, get them, I have only heard good things about them. They are higher quality than the 500 ones.
As I said I donīt know much about caps, but if you are ordering BKP pots you may also concider getting the Jensen Caps BKP offers. Again, I have only heard good things about them (sides the size xD).
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: staringatthesun on November 29, 2011, 01:00:28 AM
The cap installed is a 104k that came with the emg, I don't know much about these things.  Should I change the cap? what should I change it too?   Thanks again everyone
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: staringatthesun on November 29, 2011, 03:31:38 AM
So when I got home I took the pots out and sure enough they were 25k.  I rummaged through some stuff and found the stock 500k pots and broke out the soldering iron.........     (drum roll)........     FIXED!!  If you guys aren't already, then you should be guitar techs.  Great forum here can't wait to contribute!  Thanks you all!!!     Only thing is, now the guitar sounds almost too twangy on the low A.  Maybe I just need to get used to something besides a 707 and tweak my axe fx a lot differently.  Maybe it's because the PK is in a cheap ass Basswood Ibanez 7321 and the 707 is in a higher end mahagony schecter???  I don't know but I plan on tweaking the cr@p out of everything now that it is working right thanks too you guys!!
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: darkbluemurder on November 29, 2011, 08:51:08 AM
The cap installed is a 104k that came with the emg, I don't know much about these things.  Should I change the cap? what should I change it too?   Thanks again everyone

104k means 10 0000 pico farad (pf) which equals 10 nano farad (nf) or 0.01 micro farad (uf). If you like how the tone control works then there is no need to change it. If you think it does not enough through the rotation or does not get dark enough with the control all the way down, try a bigger value (e.g. 0.022 uf which is the standard value for humbuckers or 0.047uf). If you think it takes away too many highs, try a lower value (e.g. 0.0047uf or 4.7nf). The "right" value is the one that gives you the sound you want.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: darkbluemurder on November 29, 2011, 10:35:24 AM
The cap installed is a 104k that came with the emg, I don't know much about these things.  Should I change the cap? what should I change it too?   Thanks again everyone

104k means 10 0000 pico farad (pf) which equals 10 nano farad (nf) or 0.01 micro farad (uf). If you like how the tone control works then there is no need to change it. If you think it does not enough through the rotation or does not get dark enough with the control all the way down, try a bigger value (e.g. 0.022 uf which is the standard value for humbuckers or 0.047uf). If you think it takes away too many highs, try a lower value (e.g. 0.0047uf or 4.7nf). The "right" value is the one that gives you the sound you want.

Cheers Stephan

Ooops - 100.000 pf = 100 nf = 0.1 uf. Sorry about that.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on November 29, 2011, 10:46:52 AM
The cap installed is a 104k that came with the emg, I don't know much about these things.  Should I change the cap? what should I change it too?   Thanks again everyone

104k means 10 0000 pico farad (pf) which equals 10 nano farad (nf) or 0.01 micro farad (uf). If you like how the tone control works then there is no need to change it. If you think it does not enough through the rotation or does not get dark enough with the control all the way down, try a bigger value (e.g. 0.022 uf which is the standard value for humbuckers or 0.047uf). If you think it takes away too many highs, try a lower value (e.g. 0.0047uf or 4.7nf). The "right" value is the one that gives you the sound you want.

Cheers Stephan

Ooops - 100.000 pf = 100 nf = 0.1 uf. Sorry about that.

Cheers Stephan

Yes - the 104 will be too big IMO

I would go with a 223 or a 103 (0.022uF or 0.01uF....although I am loving the 0.015uF Jensen /BKP)
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: Kiichi on November 29, 2011, 10:48:58 AM
Good to hear that it was the simple thing.
Now the tweaking comes...play with the hight of the PU (and maybe even carefully the pole pieces) and be amazed how much that changes your sound. You can do a lot of tweaking there. After that of course your amp setting will need one or two as well, but take time to get used to the PU and fiddle with it.
When I got my aftermath I had to to have it go way down and raise the pole pieces closer the bridge up on the lower 3 strings. World of difference in sound
Title: Re: new painkiller sounds bad
Post by: 4Eyes on November 30, 2011, 08:11:00 AM
Also check if the pickup is close enough to the strings  - the Ibanez 7 string I worked on last week was suffering with weak sound and the pickup was 3-4mm away from the strings.
how close do you recommend? I have PK set about 3-4mm away from strings and I have no problems with output, it sounds ok to me. I didn't have to change amp's gain setting when swithced from EMG 81 loaded guitar  :)