Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: DavidRees on December 23, 2011, 05:00:30 PM
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Anyone out there regularly play tuned down to E flat? If so, what do you reckon are the relative advantages both to you and the listener? All advice gratefully received
thank you and have a good Christmas everyone...
David
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I've been in Eb for quite some years now.
Advantages? I couldn't say. Usually it's at the request of the singer that we tune down a half step. Apparently, it makes a world of difference :?
It does seem to widen the sound a bit, but that may be totally in my head...
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My band did for a few years then the guy behind it left and we went to E. He is re joining the band so we will be going back to Eb.
Advantages: I does make singing a bit easier.The semitone seems to make a huge difference-more than you'd think so I must say I am looking forward to that.
I also think that it makes Fender guitars sound better (to my ears)though I am not so far convinced about the Gibson. The Fenders seem to like the lower string tension whereas the Gibson doesn't seem so happy.
Disadvantages- the other guitarists guitar doesn't seem to hold tuning so well. It is a pain having to re tune if you play with other people as some folk can't seem to get their heads around it-I cannot understand why this is so.
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I also think that it makes Fender guitars sound better (to my ears)though I am not so far convinced about the Gibson. The Fenders seem to like the lower string tension whereas the Gibson doesn't seem so happy.
On Gibson scale guitars, I use a heavier gauge of strings for tuning down a 1/2 step to a step. .011 instead of .010.
On Fenders it doesn't matter as much, indeed. Works fine until D with my standard .010s.
Disadvantages- the other guitarists guitar doesn't seem to hold tuning so well. It is a pain having to re tune if you play with other people as some folk can't seem to get their heads around it-I cannot understand why this is so.
I just keep a couple of guitars in E ;)
Easier to play along to albums as well.
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the only difference is you can use heavier gauge strings and thereby fatten your tone.think hendrix, stevie ray. if you use 11's in E they're so tight you can't bend 'em, but tuning down to Eflat makes your guitar playable.i've heard some
players go up to .15 or even .18 top e!.
i've read some stuff that said it helps deliver a more pleasing spectrum of harmonics across the fretboard (in eflat) but
i don't buy it.loads of great players sound great in e standard.
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I don't buy "bigger strings = fatter tone".
Tony Iommi anyone?
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I don't buy "bigger strings = fatter tone".
I recently tried the GHS Gilmour "G" set - heavier low strings - on my SG and it does indeed fatten the tone. Now whether you like it is another story (as far as I'm concerned I found it to be a bit OTT on this guitar).
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it may suit your ears better. I think Eflat sounds a bit more "right" than standard E
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sancho with all respect fatter strings do fatten tone considerably. this is much more noticable in cleanish settings with
'fendery' type amps. it doesn't mean you can't get a 'fat' tone with thinner strings especially if your using distortion
and a good sounding rig.bass and mid can be added at the amp.
as an experiment try a strat with 10's and compare with 11's .the tone is very different.
i use 10's for simplicity but prefer 11's detuned to e flat.i always forget which position i'm in with e flat :roll:
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I starting using it to learn a couple of tunes a few years back and I've been using drop Db as my main tuning for quite a long time now. It sounds more "right" to me than E standard ever did, and I think there's this kind of timbre to it that D standard and drop C don't really get.
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sancho with all respect fatter strings do fatten tone considerably. this is much more noticable in cleanish settings with
'fendery' type amps. it doesn't mean you can't get a 'fat' tone with thinner strings especially if your using distortion
and a good sounding rig.bass and mid can be added at the amp.
as an experiment try a strat with 10's and compare with 11's .the tone is very different.
i use 10's for simplicity but prefer 11's detuned to e flat.i always forget which position i'm in with e flat :roll:
If detuned to E-flat I would consider 0.11's. For E I prefer 0.10's on my strat. It's true bigger strings enhance the tone dramatically on strats.
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I use a 10-52 set for Eb and drop Db, and I love the way the high strings feel a little slinkier, though I think my low strings could be a bit heavier. But no one makes any 10-56 or 10-60 sets for 6 strings. :lol:
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But no one makes any 10-56 or 10-60 sets for 6 strings.
I think GHS did a Zakk Wylde Boomer Set that was 10-60 and another that was 10-70
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sancho with all respect fatter strings do fatten tone considerably. this is much more noticable in cleanish settings with
'fendery' type amps.
Ah, that's where I digress. I'm a Marshall kind of guy ;) Very rarely play clean...
as an experiment try a strat with 10's and compare with 11's .the tone is very different.
Could be. But on a Les Paul the difference is negligible. Probably something to do with humbuckers vs single coils as well.
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I'm possibly using Eb sometimes, or maybe even F... :lol:
I aim at E, but I only use a tuner when I'm about to record something (or play with other people, which is rare nowadays)... I'd rather tune by ear if I have the time, and often I'll take my reference off a keyboard (or another guitar) instead anyway.
I use 11's on all electrics now. Years ago it used to be 10s on fenders, and when I started using gibson scales as well I found the 10s to be far too floppy. So I spent a few years with 11s on gibson and 10s on fender - they seemed to balance reasonably well.
After a long break from guitar I got a new strat, and the only spare strings I had in the box were 11s - I gave them a go and never looked back.
Heavier strings definitely sound different - personally I'd say meatier. But whether that's down to the strings themselves, or how they make me feel and therefore how I hit them, I really don't know anymore. I do know that I have to take this into account when trying a guitar in a shop - I have to remember it's going to feel and sound a lot "better" (to me) if I get it home and rip the floppy strings off it.
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I joined a band who insisted on playing SOME numbers in E flat. I detuned my back up guitar (Gibson SG) and absolutely hated the way it sounded. Can't really explain why but it was bad enough for me to quit the band.
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I actually think it originated from when guitar players were playing with other instrumentalists as Concert Pitch is Eb, as well as you have some Brass instruments playing Bb. So I think it just made it easier on all the instrumentalists. Take Metallica for instance, they play in E Standard, but the Live S&M concert they played in Eb
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"E flat, the unloved ginger stepchild of the guitar chords"
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I joined a band who insisted on playing SOME numbers in E flat. I detuned my back up guitar (Gibson SG) and absolutely hated the way it sounded. Can't really explain why but it was bad enough for me to quit the band.
At first I hated it as well. It took me a while to get used to it. Now it doesn't make any difference to me, soundwise.
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don't want to appear an arse but concert pitch for pretty much the last century is A 440ish hz.this means your bottom
string (6 strings) is E not E flat. different reference pitches are more common before 20th century.
if your guitar sounds bad in e flat it's because your strings are too loose not because of the pitch.i.e a playability thing.it would be like saying i like an F chord but not F sharp, the quality of the chord is the same.obviously an open E (or Eflat) may sound better than F (or Fsharp) but thats because of the open strings which resonate truer than fingered.
the pitch is pretty irrelevent to the quality of the sound but very relevent if you want to use fat strings and retain playability.
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i normally stick to e
i keep a guitar or two in e flat so i can play along with songs which are in e flat, but that's about it
i guess if i were in a band and teh singer needed it to be tuned down to e flat i'd do that- but i prefer e if given the free choice, i think.
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don't want to appear an arse but concert pitch for pretty much the last century is A 440ish hz.this means your bottom
string (6 strings) is E not E flat.
Tuning a half step doesn't mean your guitar isn't in A440...
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I actually think it originated from when guitar players were playing with other instrumentalists as Concert Pitch is Eb, as well as you have some Brass instruments playing Bb. So I think it just made it easier on all the instrumentalists. Take Metallica for instance, they play in E Standard, but the Live S&M concert they played in Eb
A good point but not accurate.
Metallica had been playing in Eb since 95 as hetfield shot his voice and couldnt reach the notes correctly in standard.
This can be seen on death magnetic you can hear him straining on the final version but on the demos that are in Eb he doesnt strain at all. However Rick Rubin wanted to have him straining to hit the notes as it made him sound "vulnerable" :S
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But no one makes any 10-56 or 10-60 sets for 6 strings.
I think GHS did a Zakk Wylde Boomer Set that was 10-60 and another that was 10-70
You are right actually, I had forgotten about those. Been meaning to give them a shot...
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as hetfield shot his voice and couldnt reach the notes correctly in standard.
Should point out that your voice naturally deepens with age anyway.
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I've played in Eb for ages now, its a bit easier on the old digits if you gig regular (and have arthritis). It was to make top notes easier for our singer at first, but it worked out cool with me too. The tension on the low strings isn't quite what I've like, so will have to play with gauges at some point (playing 11s on Gibsons).
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But no one makes any 10-56 or 10-60 sets for 6 strings.
I think GHS did a Zakk Wylde Boomer Set that was 10-60 and another that was 10-70
You are right actually, I had forgotten about those. Been meaning to give them a shot...
DR Strings actually make them Gauges. I use 10-56 DR Jeff Healy sig set :)
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As you go up in gauge of string I find that you get less harmonic overtones and more of the fundamental note.
That is why blues players seem to love fat strings and why it suits stoner rock etc
Skinnier strings tend to get a higher amount of higher harmonics in the sound and this seems to give them more sizzle and maybe accounted for a little of that wasp in a jam-jar tone that some of the 80s waddlers using .007 and .008 gauge strings along with their choice of pedals amps and settings.
Eb tuning was almost the staple tuning of half the rock and metal bands in the 70s and 80s it seemed
It was also the reason that 99% of music notation, chord songbooks and some early tab books (prior to about 1986) were all wrong and even the artist who played the tune in the first place wouldn't be able to play the song from the songbook
On that note I found this
http://youtu.be/-KR7txrLvuY (http://youtu.be/-KR7txrLvuY)
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But no one makes any 10-56 or 10-60 sets for 6 strings.
I think GHS did a Zakk Wylde Boomer Set that was 10-60 and another that was 10-70
You are right actually, I had forgotten about those. Been meaning to give them a shot...
Found a set of DR 10-60s since I hate GHS, I'm looking forward to it. I'll even be trying that 70 in E standard as soon as I get rocksmith.
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As you go up in gauge of string I find that you get less harmonic overtones and more of the fundamental note.
That is why blues players seem to love fat strings and why it suits stoner rock etc
Skinnier strings tend to get a higher amount of higher harmonics in the sound and this seems to give them more sizzle and maybe accounted for a little of that wasp in a jam-jar tone that some of the 80s waddlers using .007 and .008 gauge strings along with their choice of pedals amps and settings.
Eb tuning was almost the staple tuning of half the rock and metal bands in the 70s and 80s it seemed
It was also the reason that 99% of music notation, chord songbooks and some early tab books (prior to about 1986) were all wrong and even the artist who played the tune in the first place wouldn't be able to play the song from the songbook
On that note I found this
http://youtu.be/-KR7txrLvuY (http://youtu.be/-KR7txrLvuY)
That makes a lot of sense. I always felt that a set of 11s sounded more focused and direct which would seem to be the case if it's exhibiting fewer overtones as you say. Really appreciate that Jonathan it clears a lot up for me.
Also that is one of my favourite sketches of all time and I can never see it enough so thanks for the reminder of that too.