Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Twinfan on January 30, 2012, 05:58:01 PM
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Does anyone know if Black Dogs are just 'hot Mules'?
According the BKP site:
Mules = "42 AWG plain enamel wire"
Black Dogs = "modern polysol wire"
I'm guessing BDs are 42AWG too but the polysol insulting material affects the tone in some way and isn't vintage correct?
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I think I read somewhere in this forum that the Black Dogs have AWG 42.5 polysol wire. This makes sense if you take into account that the VHII is the highest wound BKP with AWG 42 plain enamel wire.
Cheers Stephan
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This makes sense if you take into account that the VHII is the highest wound BKP with AWG 42 plain enamel wire.
I certainly remember reading that the VHII at 9k is the hottest you can get with 42 gauge plain enamel - the bobbins are literally full, apparently.
So the slightly hotter BD would require a thinner wire.
I don't know what effect the insulating material has - it's tempting to say "snake oil" but then I'd probably learn it makes a big difference, and feel foolish.... :|
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I remember reading a post from Tim once where he explained that the Miracle Man and the Black Dog use the different, modern type wire - and why that is that way and what the difference is.
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Interesting! I didn't realise that.
I'm wondering whether to try BDs in my PRS Singlecut, but was hoping they were 42AWG. I wonder if can get Mules overwound until the coils are full instead???
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Oh sorry, I changed my post slightly! You were very quick in replying. I am not 100% sure that there aren't different types of AWG wires - whatever that actually is. I just remember rreading that those two pickups are different in that respect and that there was a distinct reason for that.
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Gotcha. I've just fired BKP an email to see what they suggest for me...
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I'm wondering whether to try BDs in my PRS Singlecut, but was hoping they were 42AWG. I wonder if can get Mules overwound until the coils are full instead???
Would that mean you'd end up with an AIV VHII?
I suppose the difference would be in the "stagger" between the coils, but I think Mules have a stagger anyway - maybe not as much as the VHII.
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I believe so. I'm wondering about an AIV overwound Mule/or a more symmetrical AV VHII...
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I think I read somewhere in this forum that the Black Dogs have AWG 42.5 polysol wire. This makes sense if you take into account that the VHII is the highest wound BKP with AWG 42 plain enamel wire.
Cheers Stephan
I can confirm that. Tim told me 42.5 awg spn.
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I've had an email from Tim who doesn't recommend overwinding the Mules at all, so he suggested normal Mules for me - but I think I want/need something a bit hotter. I've always liked Hunter's clips of his Black Dogs through his Shiva so I think they're going to be the set for me...
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And keeping the PRS pickup in the middle?
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Yep. It's a #7, which is a 7.8k Alnico pickup along the PAF lines. So I'll have Hot PAFs in the neck and bridge, with a regular PAF in the middle. Hopefully the ideal combo.
I've never tried Black Dogs in a mahogany/maple guitar so something new for me to try.
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I am not 100% sure that there aren't different types of AWG wires - whatever that actually is.
AWG = American Wire Gauge. It's a wire gauge unit, where higher values actually means thinner wire (ie, 43awg is thinner than 42awg).
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Yep. It's a #7, which is a 7.8k Alnico pickup along the PAF lines. So I'll have Hot PAFs in the neck and bridge, with a regular PAF in the middle. Hopefully the ideal combo.
I've never tried Black Dogs in a mahogany/maple guitar so something new for me to try.
I have a Black Dog in the bridge of my Gordon Smith Graduate 60 LP Stylee. It has alot more of a mid push than any other PAF style pickup I've ever used, so it does offer a very different voice for someone that usually uses PAF types. Infact, it seems to push an amp harder than a Crawler, mainly due to the big mids of the BDs.
Should I call off the hunt for the Dragon Is pricing then? 8)
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Yep. It's a #7, which is a 7.8k Alnico pickup along the PAF lines. So I'll have Hot PAFs in the neck and bridge, with a regular PAF in the middle. Hopefully the ideal combo.
I would then replace that #7 with a Mule or another BD neck. Both would certainly be clearer than the #7.
Cheers Stephan
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Sorted - BDs ordered via Jon @ Feline.
Brow - let me know about the Dragons, I may still take them anyway :)
Stephan - the middle pickup is only ever used with the neck and/or bridge pickup so I don't see the point in upgrading it for £100. It'll be good enough to blend in as required.
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I have a Black Dog in the bridge of my Gordon Smith Graduate 60 LP Stylee. It has alot more of a mid push than any other PAF style pickup I've ever used, so it does offer a very different voice for someone that usually uses PAF types. Infact, it seems to push an amp harder than a Crawler, mainly due to the big mids of the BDs.
That's interesting, since the Crawler itself is pretty thick sounding and middy. I'll try to remember that. :)
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It has alot more of a mid push than any other PAF style pickup I've ever used, so it does offer a very different voice for someone that usually uses PAF types.
true
much middier than the mule, riff raff, neck cold sweat, duncan '59, gibson '57 classic plus, burstbucker pro, 80's gibson pat number tim shaws, gibson 490t...