Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Eyes Wide Shut on February 06, 2012, 07:38:14 PM
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After countless hours researching pickups, talking to many people on here - all who have been very friendly and helpful - I've come to the conclusion of having either an Abraxas or VHII in my Alder guitar.
I just wanted to ask how these pickups compare to each other?
Cheers yet again,
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can't comment on the abraxas, but i recently put a vhii in my alder strat. it kind of retains an air of straty- ness (yes that word is in the oxford dictionary) but obviously with loads of balls and it balances really well with the stock fender pickups. it does a good tom morello rage against the machine too which i don't normaly play, but since putting the vhii in, i keep finding my guitar in drop d. very strange!
which ever one you go for, i don't think you'll be dissapointed.
or buy one of each and chop and change at your leisure.
i also put a mule in my mates strat recently and that works really well too.
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Well the Abraxas is apparantly a hotter version of the Mule. Because I'll be using the pickup to record my Instrumental Solo album, it kind of has to be a pickup that speaks well, rather than just pure power. I'd need a pickup that cleans up as well.
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Both will work, it's a matter of taste. The Abraxas being the beefier one, I guess. I have Mules and a Crawler and the Abraxas sits between them. Hotter, with more mids then Mules, but crispier and not that fat in the midrange as a Crawler. Would beef up your strat for sure. I like the balance of AIV-magnets.
I have the VHII in an quite percussive American Series-ash strat and it's a great match if you're looking for that brown sound. A balanced pickup, enough mids in a strat, highs are present but not shrill at all, great articulation and a easy one to get the overtones jumping out. It really sings. A versatile wicked rockpickup that cleans up to a near single coil-vocal quality.
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quite clearly telerocker is a lot more articulate with his pickup descriptions than me.
but yeh, what he said!
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Both will work, it's a matter of taste. The Abraxas being the beefier one, I guess. I have Mules and a Crawler and the Abraxas sits between them. Hotter, with more mids then Mules, but crispier and not that fat in the midrange as a Crawler. Would beef up your strat for sure. I like the balance of AIV-magnets.
I have the VHII in an quite percussive American Series-ash strat and it's a great match if you're looking for that brown sound. A balanced pickup, enough mids in a strat, highs are present but not shrill at all, great articulation and a easy one to get the overtones jumping out. It really sings. A versatile wicked rockpickup that cleans up to a near single coil-vocal quality.
God this is so hard haha. Regarding the "Brown" sound, I'm not really after this all the time. I'm more after something versatile for Instrumental Rock/Metal. I'll have my Mahogany Nailbomb/Cold Sweat guitar for the more extreme metal instrumentals, so I know I definitely want something a little less contemporary, but also not really vintage. I'm more after a lead tone that really sounds organic, touch sensitive and open. Something which sounds really vocal as if the guitar is speaking through your fingers. That's why I was thinking about the Abraxas over the VHII. I was feeling the extra DC might make it handle the distortion I play with, overdriving the amp better; but the Alnico IV magnet would bring back some of that Vintageness to the overall sound. I don't really want the extreme Vintage sound like Slash, or the Modern Nailbomb style sound - I'm after a more higher output pickup (I think), with a Vintage Character for that extra Vocal quality.
Any advice?
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crawler
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crawler
Sorry to be an "Ass" asking a bizillion questions lol, but why do you say the Crawler? I've listened to the clips, and the top end seems extremely rounded, which I'm not a fan of over rounding the top end. But yet again it could be amp settings, EQ, or a warm guitar on the clip, so just thought I'd ask @)
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the crawler seems to have everything you're describing. trouble with listening to the sound clips is they are never gonna be representative of your setup. its always a tough call choosing the right pickups and you don't always get it right first time. but it is fun and expensive experimenting!
telerocker should take over here as he has crawlers and i do not.
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I don't think you want the Crawler when you want to do metal with it too. You'll find the bass a tad too soft and not tight enough. The treble is indeed quite round and, as the Abraxas, is still has some PAF-flavour. The Abraxas is a little more open and has more 'air' in the topend.
I think you underestimate the leadqualities of the VHII: organic, touchsensitive and open, the qualities you're looking for, it's all in there. It can sound huge with the right amp.
The next question is: did you consider the Holy Diver? It's fat, organic, more focussed then a vintagehotpickup and provides stellar leadtones. Cleans up and splits good too. It will certainly add beef to an alder guitar; tones above the 12 fret stay meaty.
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crawler
Sorry to be an "Ass" asking a bizillion questions lol, but why do you say the Crawler? I've listened to the clips, and the top end seems extremely rounded, which I'm not a fan of over rounding the top end. But yet again it could be amp settings, EQ, or a warm guitar on the clip, so just thought I'd ask @)
The Crawler is indeed rather warm & fat - "rounded" - yet with enough bite to cut thru the mix and a nice low-mid growl. Great singing lead tones FWIW and a truely versatile pickup, much more "polite" than the ABomb but still rocking.
It does match part of your whishlist, at least the "something a little less contemporary, but also not really vintage" and the "more higher output pickup with a Vintage Character" thangs. But yes, you might find it a bit too smooth and compressed, depending on the guitar - mine are on a maple going-thru neck / maple sides / rosewood fretboard 80s japanese Vox, so a very different beast, and one that already sounds a bit "compressed" (going-thru neck effect I think) unplugged. In your own alder strat it will possibly sound brighter and more open, can't tell (but it has been designed to sound good in strats). From what I know of the Abraxas, it should be a bit brigther and less compressed, rawer, and way more vintagey - but still beefy.
Oh and yes: the Crawler bridge is AV, not AIV. The Crawler neck is AFAICT very close to the abraxas, just tweaked to match the hotter and more modern AV bridge.
Hope that helps...
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I don't think you want the Crawler when you want to do metal with it too. You'll find the bass a tad too soft and not tight enough. The treble is indeed quite round and, as the Abraxas, is still has some PAF-flavour. The Abraxas is a little more open and has more 'air' in the topend.
I think you underestimate the leadqualities of the VHII: organic, touchsensitive and open, the qualities you're looking for, it's all in there. It can sound huge with the right amp.
The next question is: did you consider the Holy Diver? It's fat, organic, more focussed then a vintagehotpickup and provides stellar leadtones. Cleans up and splits good too. It will certainly add beef to an alder guitar; tones above the 12 fret stay meaty.
I was originally thinking the Holy Diver as a potential candidate, but I ended up wanting a more Vintagey tone. Plus, even though I like the mids, I kind of want a higher cut in balance with the mids. This is what points me more to the VHII, but the description of "esquisite vocal" and higher output/Alnico IV of the Abraxas, make me go more to the Abraxus. Each pickup has it's own descriptions that equally make them as appealing. OMG, please say I'm not the first person to suffer Bare Knuckle Syndrome :/
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The output of the VHII is not dramatically less then the Crawler by example. On paper yes, in reality the gap is not big at all.
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I'm just thinking. What do you think of this for a plan. I'm buying myself a Cold Sweat Neck and possibly a Nailbomb Bridge for my Mahogany Guitar. Would it be a good idea to get these fitted and explain what else I'm looking for that these pickups don't do? Then I'll know exactly what's acheiveable with them, and be able to describe exactly what I want from the other pickups so I have a complete spectrum of sounds between the two guitars?
It's an idea. But i don't know if it's a good idea or not :/
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That's certainly not a bad way to go, even though you cannot always adapt the results of pickups in one guitar to another guitar. In your case it makes sense since I understood you want two guitars specialising in different things.
One remark to Crawler vs. Abraxas: I have both sets, and I tried them in the same guitar. I would describe the Crawler bridge as fat, slightly dark, smooth and compressed, not really open and not really tight. The Abraxas bridge is also fat, smooth but not dark and a lot more open than the Crawler. With the neck pickups the comparison is similar - the Abraxas is brighter and more open. Unless your guitar is one of the real bright ones I would strongly prefer the Abraxas over the Crawler.
If you want a more open tone than the Abraxas you have to go to a lower power model, e.g. VHII.
Cheers Stephan
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This is the email I've just got back from Tim -
I do think you'd really enjoy the VHII, it's certainly no slouch when it comes to output and has a wonderfully dynamic and open tone. However if you want more saturation then the Abraxas will certainly do that while retaining a lovely vintage character to the tone and the Emerald neck is absolutely beautiful - a very popular choice for a lot of players especially those that enjoy that AT tone.
I just wondered, when you say "saturation", do you mean the pickup is less dry? Kind of like the Aftermath is very dry, but the Abraxas is more wet giving it a more fluid tone making your mistakes less pronounced? I'm just very terrible when it comes to pickup lingo.
With the Emerald, can it handle gain well? Also with the Abraxas/Emerald combo, would you recommend a 5-way Ibanez or a 5-Way Rotary in HH format. Or would you just recommend HSH format?
One question which is more about cosmetics, I bought a Miracle Man second hand the other day, and it has hex bolts with the covers. How would this sound with the Abraxas/Emerald?
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I just wondered, when you say "saturation", do you mean the pickup is less dry? Kind of like the Aftermath is very dry, but the Abraxas is more wet giving it a more fluid tone making your mistakes less pronounced? I'm just very terrible when it comes to pickup lingo.
"Saturation" is basically the term for how hard a pickup drives the amp, i.e. output. Whether a pickup feels "dry" or "wet" is more a question of attack and EQ.
With the Emerald, can it handle gain well? Also with the Abraxas/Emerald combo, would you recommend a 5-way Ibanez or a 5-Way Rotary in HH format. Or would you just recommend HSH format?
I personally don't like HSH - there is just no room to play. The question of whether to use a slide switch or a rotary is one of handling preference. I bet most folks here on the forum would prefer a sliding switch. Given the choice I would always prefer the 5-way switch to a 3-way - more sound options from one switching element.
I have never played the Emerald but it is said to handle gain very well.
One question which is more about cosmetics, I bought a Miracle Man second hand the other day, and it has hex bolts with the covers. How would this sound with the Abraxas/Emerald?
I have heard that the Abraxas neck is often used with contemporary BKPs so why not? Tim once recommended that I try my Crawler neck with the Miracle Man because that allegedly works well, too. Cosmetics on the other hand are a pure personal preference. Whether hex bolts affect the tone - I don't have a clue.
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks for that Stephen.
And regarding your last comment, I meant having an Abraxas Bridge/Emerald Neck with Hex Bolts. Not for the neck to be combined with the Miracle Man haha. I just wondered how the set would sound with hex bolts as apposed to screws?
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@Eyes Wide Shut: I think you're over-thinking the whole damn thing. Please take no offense - BKP Syndrom, indeed, been here, done that, have the T-shirt :mrgreen:, but you won't know until you ear it on your guitar.
From experience, Tim's advises are more often than not dead on, even when they're not what you expected - the guy is a seasoned (and talented) guitar player, he does try all it's pups himself with as most guitars as possible, and for sure keep records of his customers feedbacks. He really knows his job, and not only the "builder" part.
For the record, I would never have bought the BGF52 set if it wasn't for Tim's advises, I was kind of skeptical but decided to give it a try and I have no regret. I only once returned a BKP (RiffRaff bridge), and really the problem was neither with the pup - which was pretty good and exactly what I asked for and what Tim described -, but with, well, what I asked for, which wasn't what I really wanted for this guitar. FWIW, I since orderer a RiffRaff set for another guitar and I couldn't be happier with it.
To make a long story short: you seem to know what you want for the mahogany strat. Order it, try it, if it works for you then take a little time to think about what you expect from your alder axe, and go for what Tim says (if you don't like it, remember you can ask for a swap or refund). If the first set don't work for you (rather unlikely IMHO but some people have hard time with the clarity, definition and note separation that are the brand's trademark), then just send it back.
My 2 cents...