Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: chopeth on February 18, 2012, 02:01:25 PM

Title: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: chopeth on February 18, 2012, 02:01:25 PM
I just wondered if is it possible...I want a specific sound with concrete characteristics and i don't know if bareknuckle make it...has anyone a custom bk? is it pretty much expensive than a normal bk?
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Attica! on February 18, 2012, 03:14:37 PM
I think it all depends on the person. I think Nolly has worked with Tim on some pickups, and MDV originally laid out the idea for what became the Aftermath. I'm not sure though why Tim would for them, but not everyone. He probably has a very good reason. If you want to get a custom one though, there's no harm in messaging Tim. But if no luck, try Bulldog pickups. Hayden from there used to work at BKP and he does some great custom pickups.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: HTH AMPS on February 18, 2012, 03:17:51 PM
What type of tone are you after? - the BKP range is quite expansive, surely there is something.

I'm fairly sure they will discuss minor variations from specific models if you ask - i.e. a slightly hotter version of an existing pickup.

Best thing is to call them and discuss what you're after.

Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on February 18, 2012, 04:06:08 PM
I think you'll find that they have become 100% inflexible from deviating from the range now
It's a recent decision I believe

I wasn't even allowed to have a run of Alnico 5 powered Mules for my forthcoming 20th anniversary series :(
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: ericsabbath on February 18, 2012, 04:58:39 PM
my riff raff has a custom taller alnico 5 magnet for more output and punch, but that was Tim's idea
when a friend asked for the same custom riff raff, they said they wouldn't change specs
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: fbloke on February 18, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
Tim made me a pair of overwound Stormy Mondays that are slightly hotter than normal, they're amazing. That was about two years ago though, I suspect that BKP are now very busy due to their reputation spreading and simply don't have the same time to spend on individual orders.  I will, of course, sell you the Stormies for a mere Ģ 1000 as they are now "vintage and rare" Bareknuckles!  :wink:
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: HTH AMPS on February 18, 2012, 05:14:40 PM
I think you'll find that they have become 100% inflexible from deviating from the range now
It's a recent decision I believe

I wasn't even allowed to have a run of Alnico 5 powered Mules for my forthcoming 20th anniversary series :(

Thats a real shame, you've been a supporter from the early days Jon.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Alex on February 18, 2012, 08:05:10 PM
I had a Holy Diver with black hex bolts, but I sold it.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Miracle Man on February 18, 2012, 10:47:52 PM
I have a CS bridge with double screw coils. Bought it a few years ago though. What pisses me off is that I really wanted a Custom Riff Raff just like the one Eric has as my next pickup  :shock: 

Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Philly Q on February 18, 2012, 11:31:12 PM
I had a Crawler set in purple/black zebra.

I guess something like that might still be possible, since it's a cosmetic thing rather than a modification of the actual pickup specs.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Attica! on February 19, 2012, 12:19:43 AM
I'm actually curious to what the tonal differences between Hex Bolts & Screws are? I got a Miracle Man set with Hex Bolts (purely cosmetic) and wondered what the difference would be? I'm talking about single row, as to the double row on the Aftermath
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: chopeth on February 19, 2012, 01:02:06 PM
tim has told me he doesn't do customs :(
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on February 19, 2012, 04:13:10 PM
It may be because BKP are now SO BUSY that taking on one-offs is too disruptive to the flow of work.

It may be that having oddball one-offs is too confusing once they inevitably hit the secondhand market
I still feel that labelling  the pickup models on their baseplates - even with just a sticker - (so MMB would be Miracle Man Bridge position whilst TMN would be The Mule neck) would be a good idea - both for in store identification if working with a number of pickups or or when people are selling secondhand models .

It would potentially also allow for a "custom/custom shop" label too enabling the identification of a non-standard pickup at some later point.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: WezV on February 19, 2012, 04:46:00 PM
shame for those of us who are used to ordering off menu, albeit usually based on Tim's advice

but the range is pretty expansive now, not sure of any other makers that have such a varied range

I guess the real question is whether people would now be willing to pay a little more for custom options outside the range
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Philly Q on February 19, 2012, 04:59:18 PM
Does the online shop still have that "additional info" box where you could specify additional details, or has that gone out of the window too?

Presumably you can still have minor options like the flipped magnet for PRS guitars?
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: WhiteRam on February 20, 2012, 03:39:23 AM
Does the online shop still have that "additional info" box where you could specify additional details, or has that gone out of the window too?

Presumably you can still have minor options like the flipped magnet for PRS guitars?

Yes the box is still there Philly, I used it recently with excellent timely results and personal correspondence with Tim.  My minor option was to have a single coil bridge' polarity and wind to replace a humbucker in an HSS set.

Edit: abbreviated content.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Philly Q on February 20, 2012, 08:41:13 AM
Thanks, I'm glad that's still there!  :)
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: DaveyHoran on February 21, 2012, 03:18:11 PM

I'm guessing its got to the stage where all the worth while mods already exist (as other pickups in the range). Its impossible to think that BKP have not already tried every possible wind / magnet combo etc. By asking for a custom wind you are effectively asking them for a pickup that either already exists or has failed to make the cut as a BKP pickup.
 
It also seems non-productive to have so many constant variations on the production line.

A defined set of BKP tones and limited cover customisation makes business sense.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Lucifuge on February 21, 2012, 05:22:04 PM
Even some of the options that used to be available are not any more; for example the Mule used to have a choice of Alnico 2, 4, or 5, but is now only available with A4.

Edit: actually, it might have been the Stormy Monday that once had a choice of magnets, I can't exactly remember.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Philly Q on February 21, 2012, 05:31:40 PM
It was certainly common to have a choice of AII or AIV in the Stormy Monday, but I don't remember if it was ever a "clickable" option in the BKP shop.

Same with the AV Mule - a number of people have bought them in the past, but AIV was always the standard.  Looks like I've missed my chance to try AV.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: PhilKing on February 21, 2012, 07:48:10 PM
The magnet choice was always a write in option and it existed on Stormy Mondays and Mules (though Alnico 5 was not a standard option, it was always a custom option).   
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: pagan7 on February 21, 2012, 09:00:18 PM
I had a calibrated set of ceramic Nailbombs made for me with three ceramic Painkiller magnets in both bridge and neck pups , along with nickel bolt poles rather than the usual iron screws, but that was over a year ago, so yes a shame if they can't do one off customs like that anymore , but quite understandable given the success BKP are enjoying .
Perhaps a production run is possible if your name is Manson :)
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: HTH AMPS on February 21, 2012, 09:31:46 PM
It was certainly common to have a choice of AII or AIV in the Stormy Monday, but I don't remember if it was ever a "clickable" option in the BKP shop.

Same with the AV Mule - a number of people have bought them in the past, but AIV was always the standard.  Looks like I've missed my chance to try AV.

it's not that big of a job to change the magnet over in a pickup Philly - just take it slow and you'll be alright.

Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: HTH AMPS on February 21, 2012, 09:36:00 PM
I had a calibrated set of ceramic Nailbombs made for me with three ceramic Painkiller magnets in both bridge and neck pups , along with nickel bolt poles rather than the usual iron screws, but that was over a year ago, so yes a shame if they can't do one off customs like that anymore , but quite understandable given the success BKP are enjoying .
Perhaps a production run is possible if your name is Manson :)

"money talks and bullshitee walks"   :lol:

Its always gonna be that way, if the money is right and there is a decent profit to be made, then why the hell not.  I understand why BKP are doing this and would expect a custom shop in the future; makes good business sense.

Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on February 21, 2012, 09:54:35 PM

Perhaps a production run is possible if your name is Manson :)

I noticed more exclusive variations for Mansons in the guitar magazine this month - so I guess it does depend who you are:

Manson's ones had special covers and everything - they look like a variation on the Fender wide spaced pickups - they call it the 2B4T

(http://www.mansonguitarworks.com/assets/images/shop/products/main/main_35.jpg)

To be fair Tim had told me I could have the A5 Mule for my 20th anniversary Lion sets , but Ben has said no I can't - make do with a Riff Raff or whatever.

It does make me feel like a poor relation somewhat.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: FernandoDuarte on February 21, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
To be fair Tim had told me I could have the A5 Mule for my 20th anniversary Lion sets , but Ben has said no I can't - make do with a Riff Raff or whatever.

It does make me feel like a poor relation somewhat.

 :? Isn't Tim the guy who has the final word at BKP?
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on February 21, 2012, 10:08:24 PM
To be fair Tim had told me I could have the A5 Mule for my 20th anniversary Lion sets , but Ben has said no I can't - make do with a Riff Raff or whatever.

It does make me feel like a poor relation somewhat.

 :? Isn't Tim the guy who has the final word at BKP?

Ben said it as if it was Tim's decision - I found it was odd that he'd done a 180 degree reversal on what he'd discussed with me.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: FernandoDuarte on February 21, 2012, 10:19:58 PM
Ben said it as if it was Tim's decision - I found it was odd that he'd done a 180 degree reversal on what he'd discussed with me.

Yes... And it sounds a little sour to me, to be fair :?
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Kiichi on February 21, 2012, 10:26:14 PM
To be fair Tim had told me I could have the A5 Mule for my 20th anniversary Lion sets , but Ben has said no I can't - make do with a Riff Raff or whatever.

It does make me feel like a poor relation somewhat.

 :? Isn't Tim the guy who has the final word at BKP?

Ben said it as if it was Tim's decision - I found it was odd that he'd done a 180 degree reversal on what he'd discussed with me.
I donīt know your exact relationship or usual way of buisness with BKP, but I recon you are somewhat of a valued customer with good ties.
I would probably have confirmed this decision with Tim directly if possible, if even just in a way to ask about the reasoning for this change of mind.

After all you are a long time valued customer, stockist and we are talking about a 20th special edition line of guitars here, not any old axe or regular stocking up on PUs for regular sale.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: WhiteRam on February 21, 2012, 10:36:22 PM
I recognize and understand all points of view here.  I would like to custom tweek a few BKP's myself, to the point of sitting side by side with Tim and really nailing it down.  

This gives me a worthy challenge to work towards being successful as a guitarist &/or composer.  It's a goal with a reward if I produce the worth.  So from my point of view I actually like how BKP is setting new boundaries.

Not many products I would endorse just for the money, I have to strongly like it.  Also, after reading this thread, I asked myself...would I rather have BKP stock offerings in my guitar or pampered custom work from anyone else.  I'll take BKP.

Nobody has the meticulous quality of componetry, the overwhelming harmonics under gain, quiet single coils, and pinch harmonic voicings that one can choose their preference of just by tweeking the height...holy sh*t!, and we all know it's immeasurable how sensitive BKP's are as we fine tune.  

Some very kind gentlemen on this forum of which I'm respectful, not making an argument, just some thoughts. :)
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Philly Q on February 21, 2012, 10:56:48 PM
It was certainly common to have a choice of AII or AIV in the Stormy Monday, but I don't remember if it was ever a "clickable" option in the BKP shop.

Same with the AV Mule - a number of people have bought them in the past, but AIV was always the standard.  Looks like I've missed my chance to try AV.

it's not that big of a job to change the magnet over in a pickup Philly - just take it slow and you'll be alright.


Just a wee bit patronising there Ian?  :P

I know, I have swapped a pickup magnet before.  But it means having to obtain a replacement magnet from somewhere, and then getting the pickup re-potted.  Would be a hell of a lot easier not to have to bother.

Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: henriquepaiva on February 22, 2012, 01:08:27 AM
One of the reasons Tim stops doing custom, is that you can get a result which is not extensively tested. And he doesn't want odd pickups around.

This is the answer i got when i asked for a A4 PG Blues.

"I'm afraid I don't like doing that - I don't want odd versions of my pickups going out as it confuses the options available. Anyway, the PG Blues sounds great with AII."
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: FernandoDuarte on February 22, 2012, 01:16:08 AM
One of the reasons Tim stops doing custom, is that you can get a result which is not extensively tested. And he doesn't want odd pickups around.

This is the answer i got when i asked for a A4 PG Blues.

"I'm afraid I don't like doing that - I don't want odd versions of my pickups going out as it confuses the options available. Anyway, the PG Blues sounds great with AII."

I can see that, but the A5 Mule was his suggestion sometimes...
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Tim on March 09, 2012, 09:38:50 AM
Just for the record Alnico V has never been an option on Mule humbuckers - I did originally offer AII or AIV as an option, back in 2003/2004 but as the range expanded I made the firm decision that Mules sounded and performed their best in the majority of guitars with Alnico IV and likewise the Stormy Monday with Alnico II. I personally don't like AV in the Mule, the mid range response gets very hard and unpleasant to my ears but that doesn't stop some customers asking for it. The Riff Raff humbucker is designed with Alnico V and the coil design supports that use. At the end of the day I try to make sure that what goes out into the market place are pickups that I have tested fully and stand 100% behind.
Sometimes what are perceived as 'custom' options ie using different magnets or adjusting winds up or down can be impractical especially given the amount of time I've put into the original voicings. Different just for the sake of being different isn't a valid reason for changing the spec of a pickup however if, after considerable interaction with a customer I feel that their guitar has a very specific design or response outside the specifications of any of the pickups I make I will then adjust a model accordingly. I have to be honest and say that with the range of pickups we offer this is a very rare occurrence.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Twinfan on March 09, 2012, 10:16:26 AM
Bottom line - trust the expert  ;)

Cheers for the input Tim  :)
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Kiichi on March 09, 2012, 10:21:16 AM
Thanks for that info Tim, as always, love it when you chime in here.

Clear point, well explained and very much understandable.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Loomer on March 09, 2012, 11:32:50 AM
Does this also mean that HS Pig90's will be history? :(
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Tim on March 09, 2012, 11:39:48 AM
No because 'under the bonnet' HSP90s and P90s are the same - the only difference with HSP90s is I have to grind the bobbin down to accommodate the cover but the wind and magnet design is exactly the same so I'm more than happy to make HSP90 versions of the Pig 90.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Kiichi on March 09, 2012, 12:00:16 PM
That is very great to hear. I thought as much, but confirmation is really nice.
Any chance it will join the constant lineup like the Pig90 originally did?


I really meant to try a HSP90 for some time, but have not found the right guitar for it.
Just got a Feline Headless, all mahahony downsized, semihollow les paul, with only a neck PU.
Wanted a HSP90 to play clean folk stuff a la Dylan, Fleet Foxes and Bon Iver. Went with an MQ I ordered a few days ago, after Ben recommended it.
Still I am not quite sure. Sides the insane output the Pig90 would have in my mind been maybe a nicer choice. Or a HSBlue Note, which would be my absolute favourite if it were real.
Hope Ben was right again.^^



Also if I may ask Tim, is there any other "semi custom" besides the HSP90 you are comfortable with?
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: darkbluemurder on March 09, 2012, 12:17:36 PM
Just for the record Alnico V has never been an option on Mule humbuckers - I did originally offer AII or AIV as an option, back in 2003/2004 but as the range expanded I made the firm decision that Mules sounded and performed their best in the majority of guitars with Alnico IV and likewise the Stormy Monday with Alnico II. I personally don't like AV in the Mule, the mid range response gets very hard and unpleasant to my ears but that doesn't stop some customers asking for it. The Riff Raff humbucker is designed with Alnico V and the coil design supports that use. At the end of the day I try to make sure that what goes out into the market place are pickups that I have tested fully and stand 100% behind.
Sometimes what are perceived as 'custom' options ie using different magnets or adjusting winds up or down can be impractical especially given the amount of time I've put into the original voicings. Different just for the sake of being different isn't a valid reason for changing the spec of a pickup however if, after considerable interaction with a customer I feel that their guitar has a very specific design or response outside the specifications of any of the pickups I make I will then adjust a model accordingly. I have to be honest and say that with the range of pickups we offer this is a very rare occurrence.

Tim,

Thank you very much for the clarification.

I must say I am very happy with your pickups as they are.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: FernandoDuarte on March 09, 2012, 02:47:42 PM
Sorry if I give a wrong information, I remembered reading sometimes it, but I may have confused things :)
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Tim on March 10, 2012, 09:55:23 AM
I am considering putting the Pig 90 into the HSP90 range and the Supermassive 90 too as we get asked so much for this - as I said in my earlier post, they're essentially the same pickups just a different way of mounting them and it obviously make sense if you've got humbucker cavities to stick with humbucker-size and vice versa.
Where possible I try to make sure all available options are listed on each pickup profile on the site and also in the shop.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Loomer on March 10, 2012, 05:31:31 PM
I am considering putting the Pig 90 into the HSP90 range and the Supermassive 90 too as we get asked so much for this - as I said in my earlier post, they're essentially the same pickups just a different way of mounting them and it obviously make sense if you've got humbucker cavities to stick with humbucker-size and vice versa.
Where possible I try to make sure all available options are listed on each pickup profile on the site and also in the shop.

I currently have a ceramic HSP90 (that Madsakre originally ordered, the infamous "Para Bellum") and it is a truly terrifying pickup white I love to bits. It would be cool to keep the ceramic option if possible :)

In any case I'm just glad the hsp90 stays!
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: I am Incinerator on March 14, 2012, 04:13:51 PM
I don't have a doubt in my mind that there isn't a set of BKP's out there for everyone :)

At first I was unsure of what I wanted tonewise from my '95 LP Studio.  I thought I was totally set on a set of Mules since they seemed to be closest to what I imagined in my mind.  I believe it was Ben(?) that also recommended the Mules when I e-mailed a little while ago with some questions.  Then I found a clip of exactly what I was looking for tonewise and e-mailed again.  Tim answered me with a definite answer, down to the last "clickable" option for a set of Riff Raffs.  I only asked if I could get particular bobbin colours and covers as well.  I like the customer service and the time taken out to answer a few questions and hear some insight on the pickups.

Now, I just need to get some money freed up to get some Riff Raffs pots and caps!
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Marco78 on January 08, 2013, 09:59:18 AM
Now I have understand because Tim don't want change your pickups, probably he is right!!! ;)
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: richard on January 08, 2013, 11:26:02 AM
Tim doesn't sell snake oil. After years of SD insisting that the JB is unchanged since it's earliest incarnation there are now at least 4 JBs available. And, if you've nailed your range what's the need for a 'custom' shop other than to extract more cash from the punters ? I still think Feline is a bit a special case though.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Alex on January 08, 2013, 03:30:19 PM
Tim doesn't sell snake oil. After years of SD insisting that the JB is unchanged since it's earliest incarnation there are now at least 4 JBs available. And, if you've nailed your range what's the need for a 'custom' shop other than to extract more cash from the punters ? I still think Feline is a bit a special case though.

I have the 35th anniversary Jazz & JB set actually, and it sounds very different from the stock JB you buy normally. It was a big surprise to me, really.
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: Philly Q on January 08, 2013, 03:58:59 PM
Tim doesn't sell snake oil. After years of SD insisting that the JB is unchanged since it's earliest incarnation there are now at least 4 JBs available. And, if you've nailed your range what's the need for a 'custom' shop other than to extract more cash from the punters ? I still think Feline is a bit a special case though.

If you have the time available and the manufacturing capability, I can see the sense in offering "custom" models which don't fit into the main range due to limited demand.  It would only be extracting cash which the punters wanted to spend.

Presumably that's the basis on which the Duncan custom shop operates (although someone will probably shoot me down now and tell me they're mass-produced in a sweatshop by small Indonesian children....)
Title: Re: bk custom ? is it possible?
Post by: ericsabbath on January 09, 2013, 06:03:33 AM
maybe I can sell my custom unique riff raff on ebay uk for a small fortune...


nah!