Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: braintheory on February 21, 2012, 03:55:38 AM
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So I just got the DOD YJM308. There's a lot of different opinions about this pedal, but I think it's phenomenal. It's aggressive, super tight, articulate, gritty, and dynamic. This works great for rock and metal, but it's a bit too aggressive and edgy for when I play stuff like Eric Johnson, fusion leads, or any time I'm looking for a more pretty, sweet lead tone. So, basically I'm looking for the best od pedal I can get for a sweeter type of lead tone and I'm willing to spend as much as it takes. I've done a lot of research and it looks like some of the good ones include: suhr shiba, okko, maxon 808, t-rex may, bb preamp, visual sound, mad professor (possibly the best one), durham, homebrew, jetter, skychord, and klon. What do you guys think? Would any of those pedals be too edgy for what I want?
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Also, would any of the pedals I've listed stand out as being much better or in another league than other pedals I also listed?
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If you don't care about spending money;
You can check out the Keeley TS9 Mod+.
I use to own one, they are pretty sweet, and premo components.
You could also check out the Ibanez TS808 Handwired.
Those are pricy.
I now use the Maxon OD808 Ri. Its great for metal, and the likes of what I do.
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I use a Green Rhino MKII OD from Way Huge/Dunlop. It has a really cool knob that adds an extra 12db to your signal. With that on a clean channel you can get pretty close to a Johnson-esque lead tone - the Tube Driver one, not the Fuzz Face one. If you use it on top of a crunch sound things get pretty real pretty fast! Check one out.
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Lots of good pedals you've listed and a lot of them will get you there. I use an Emma Reezafratzitz (handmade in Denmark) for these kind of tones. This pedal is very tube-esque and dynamic and keeps your tone thick. It has a bias-knob to shift the character from class AB to A and all the degrees in between. Tonewise the Emma is a bit like a Maxon OD820.
(I use a Suhr Riot too. Great pedal, the Shiba sounds also very nice.)
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Why not have a word with our very own Juan Solo?
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Have a look at Emma's Stink Bug pedal. It's great.
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Have a look at Emma's Stink Bug pedal. It's great.
Yeah, I forgot that one. The Reeza btw is very good at low gain settings too and it has tons of gain on tap if needed. I use it at 10.00-11.00 o'clock.
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a tubescreamer is pretty smooth
you can get a joyo clone (the vintage overdrive) for £25-£30.
that'd at least let you see if you like the tubescreamer thing, and then if you really care you could spend more later on something boutique (not that there's a whole heap of point if you like the joyo).
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I just bought a Joyo Vintage Overdrive and it sounds pretty much the same as my TS808 - Its a very good deal in my opinion...
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agreed
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i've been using a barber direct drive which has got a real nice smooth drive to it plenty of scope for e.q adjustments too as it's got internal trim pots for bass and treble tweeks.
also a much under rated pedal which i''ve been using for 6 or 7 years now is the vox big ben overdrive. its got some kind of gimicky cool tube technology nonsense thing going on, but at the end of the day its drive sounds are smooth, vintage and creamy. don't think they make em anymore though.
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Just went of do some googleing on Joyo pedal's and came across this. http://www.strat-talk.com/forum/effect-effect/151219-warning-toxic-pedals-joyo-pedals.html
intresting if true. A company has been selling them with a huge mark up as boutique pedals.
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Freakish blues has also been doing this
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holy cr@p you'd think after you-know-who got caught no-one else would have tried this :lol:
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Eric Johnson = BK Butler Tube Driver (+fuzz face, but smooth tones can be had without)
also recommended is the sobbat DB-1. Smoothest sweetest sustainest OD i've heard and i've played and own a few including the tubedriver
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For smooth and sweet, the BB Preamp will do a good job.
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Regarding Tube Screamers, can somebody PLEASE explain the difference between the Original 808 and the TS9?
Also the TS9DX, what does this Turbo model improve on the TS9?
Regarding the others, what does the Handwired 808 do that the original 808 does?
And one last question, what's the fuss about the Keeley moded?
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Am up to my eyes at work just now, but if you can wait until tomorrow and no one jumps in first i can give you a decent low down on the keeley TS808 as i own a vintage chipped one. short answer, they're great but not worth the 279 quid that guitar guitar charge for the fully loaded mod
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Am up to my eyes at work just now, but if you can wait until tomorrow and no one jumps in first i can give you a decent low down on the keeley TS808 as i own a vintage chipped one. short answer, they're great but not worth the 279 quid that guitar guitar charge for the fully loaded mod
Yh cheers that would be great. I just want to know how they all compare. I currently own a TS9, so I will have a good referance point to work frrom.
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Regarding Tube Screamers, can somebody PLEASE explain the difference between the Original 808 and the TS9?
Also the TS9DX, what does this Turbo model improve on the TS9?
Regarding the others, what does the Handwired 808 do that the original 808 does?
And one last question, what's the fuss about the Keeley moded?
jack shiteee is the simple answer regarding the 808 versus the 9. iirc, two resistors in areas of the circuit which shouldn't be audibly different.
there's a big article on the tubescreamer on the geofex site. I'd like you, but whatever software it uses doesn't let you link to a specific page, just the homepage (and i'm too computer illiterate to figure out how to do it :oops: )
i think the handwired was an excuse to get £300 out of TGP types. heck the bog standard tubescreamers are way overpriced in europe already. you can get a clone for £25-£50, which if you're using it as a boost, will, odds are, sound identical.
EDIT: oh right you already have a 9. Yeah just keep the 9 and use that. you're overthinking it, i think. :lol: (yes i'm aware i'm guilty of overthinking things too all the time :lol: )
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Regarding Tube Screamers, can somebody PLEASE explain the difference between the Original 808 and the TS9?
Also the TS9DX, what does this Turbo model improve on the TS9?
Regarding the others, what does the Handwired 808 do that the original 808 does?
And one last question, what's the fuss about the Keeley moded?
jack shiteeeee is the simple answer regarding the 808 versus the 9. iirc, two resistors in areas of the circuit which shouldn't be audibly different.
there's a big article on the tubescreamer on the geofex site. I'd like you, but whatever software it uses doesn't let you link to a specific page, just the homepage (and i'm too computer illiterate to figure out how to do it :oops: )
i think the handwired was an excuse to get £300 out of TGP types. heck the bog standard tubescreamers are way overpriced in europe already. you can get a clone for £25-£50, which if you're using it as a boost, will, odds are, sound identical.
EDIT: oh right you already have a 9. Yeah just keep the 9 and use that. you're overthinking it, i think. :lol: (yes i'm aware i'm guilty of overthinking things too all the time :lol: )
Well I'll only have it a few more days as I had to get rid of it as I'm in a money crisis until next week as my main guitar broke so I'm trading it with my guitar tech haha. So obv I'll have to buy something else come next week. I actually only use it as a boost. What's the Turbo version of it all about? And which are these cheap copies? Is it the Joyo mentioned earlier?
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jack shiteeee is the simple answer regarding the 808 versus the 9. iirc, two resistors in areas of the circuit which shouldn't be audibly different.
Yet it makes an audible difference. The TS9 has a really honky mid-peak where the 808 is more balanced and more open sounding and this really comes from these two resistors values. The TS9 works better for higher gain tones (tighter lows and more mid boost) but I personnally prefer the 808 circuit.
wrt/ exact chip used, I wouldn't say it doesn't make any difference but really nothing compared to the difference you'll get from the caps and resistors tolerance variations - IOW, that's mainly snake oil and marketing bullshitee.
Oh and yes: the very best variant of this circuit I've ever played is the techniguitare.com Custom Screamer kit (french site, sorry), comes with the componants for both (TS9 and TS808) versions, it's deliberately not a true clone - there are a couple well tought-out variations on some componant values - and this thing just beats any other TS I've ever played pants down. Kicked my good old vintage TS9 (the only pedal I used for more than 15 years) from my pedalbord, 'nuff said.
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Blackstar HT Drive is a really nice pedal.
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jack shiteeeee is the simple answer regarding the 808 versus the 9. iirc, two resistors in areas of the circuit which shouldn't be audibly different.
Yet it makes an audible difference. The TS9 has a really honky mid-peak where the 808 is more balanced and more open sounding and this really comes from these two resistors values. The TS9 works better for higher gain tones (tighter lows and more mid boost) but I personnally prefer the 808 circuit.
wrt/ exact chip used, I wouldn't say it doesn't make any difference but really nothing compared to the difference you'll get from the caps and resistors tolerance variations - IOW, that's mainly snake oil and marketing bullshiteeee.
Oh and yes: the very best variant of this circuit I've ever played is the techniguitare.com Custom Screamer kit (french site, sorry), comes with the componants for both (TS9 and TS808) versions, it's deliberately not a true clone - there are a couple well tought-out variations on some componant values - and this thing just beats any other TS I've ever played pants down. Kicked my good old vintage TS9 (the only pedal I used for more than 15 years) from my pedalbord, 'nuff said.
The ICs actually do make quite a large difference. Some are higher/lower output with higher/lower power consumption and some are higher/lower noise
The NE5532 is my personal favourite but its a complete write off if you want to use the pedal with batteries as it chews through them in no time.
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jack shiteeeeee is the simple answer regarding the 808 versus the 9. iirc, two resistors in areas of the circuit which shouldn't be audibly different.
Yet it makes an audible difference. The TS9 has a really honky mid-peak where the 808 is more balanced and more open sounding and this really comes from these two resistors values. The TS9 works better for higher gain tones (tighter lows and more mid boost) but I personnally prefer the 808 circuit.
wrt/ exact chip used, I wouldn't say it doesn't make any difference but really nothing compared to the difference you'll get from the caps and resistors tolerance variations - IOW, that's mainly snake oil and marketing bullshiteeeeee.
Oh and yes: the very best variant of this circuit I've ever played is the techniguitare.com Custom Screamer kit (french site, sorry), comes with the componants for both (TS9 and TS808) versions, it's deliberately not a true clone - there are a couple well tought-out variations on some componant values - and this thing just beats any other TS I've ever played pants down. Kicked my good old vintage TS9 (the only pedal I used for more than 15 years) from my pedalbord, 'nuff said.
i'm not saying having a different chip (which some of the ts9s had, i think) makes no difference, as i had a biyang ts-alike which had swappable chips, and they made a noticeable difference. I'm saying more what you're saying in the second paragraph, which is that, assuming the same chips, i wouldn't worry about it. :) Especially when you consider the differences in price between the 9 and the 808- or maybe more importantly, between them and the cheap clones, which ironically often use the "right" chip.
Well I'll only have it a few more days as I had to get rid of it as I'm in a money crisis until next week as my main guitar broke so I'm trading it with my guitar tech haha. So obv I'll have to buy something else come next week. I actually only use it as a boost. What's the Turbo version of it all about? And which are these cheap copies? Is it the Joyo mentioned earlier?
yeah far as i'm aware the joyo is an 808 clone. it's (supposedly) true bypass, so it might be missing the buffers (dunno), but it sounds like a ts to me (not having one beside it to compare to).
tonerider does one too, but dangleberry seems to be out of stock.
that geofex site explains the difference with the turbo, too.
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the guys have covered the TS9/TS808 differences etc, there's more info here:
http://www.analogman.com/tshist.htm
While the chips make a difference, i don't think they make anything like as much difference as corksniffers reckon they do, i think the vintage JRC4558D thing is a way to justify charging more money. the variations of the 4558 chip are all pretty good, vintage or not.
The Keeley pedal tubescreamer.. well.. my opinion on it may be coloured as i was lucky enough to get a vintage chipped true bypass, mod plus one off the bay a few years back for what turned out to be a total steal compared to what they go for new, so am guessing the prices new were not even remotely close a few years back.
Anyways.. i digress. the Keeley (and analogman silver mod) both tighten up the low end (previously flabby) gets rid of the mid range hump (there is still a pronounced midrange as that's what a TS sounds like, but makes it less nasal and honky), gives you more range on the gain knob (at the lower end it's way way cleaner and at the top end there's more gain available), makes the pedal true bypass, and generally upgrades a lot of components for higher quality ones so you get less noise.
The fuss is that these companies are very good at marketing, and while they do improve these pedals in some cases considerably, I am just starting to not be convinced by how expensive the prices are starting to become:
http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/pedals_s_detail.asp?stock=06061010482429
to put that into context i got mine for about 130 quid used on the bay with a vintage JRC (as i mentioned) . There's corksniffers out there would and have literally creamed their pants and offer me stupid money for it. not that i would get rid of it. To be honest if i was going to spend that money on a pedal i would buy an analogman KOT, or the tubedriver. If i wanted a modded TS808 now i would get in touch with these guys.
http://www.pedalmods.com/
and if i wanted a TS9 or TS 808 i would but an old one of the bay from the 90's or early 2000's
Just saw the prices of the current ibanez reissues, so i take back what i said about Keeley's prices, they only cost £40 more than the base price of the basic pedal.. I can't believe how expensive the ibanez reissues have got. It's less of a question of whether the mods are worth it and more a question of is a tubescreamer worth it. I would say no, there's better pedals for less money.
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I have mucked around with op amps and whereas I would agree the user can tell slight differences (i.e. I noticed that Burr Browns are 'cleaner'), it is questionable if in reality the difference is as noticeable as the people who write reviews like 'the JRC4558 lacks the subtle distortion swirl of the TL072 la la la ...... I think there is more change in tone in pedals based on the inherent differences in tolerances of the components.
- I am sure you have all seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpTv2jAree8
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Can't really argue with that. Keeley included a TI4558 chip with the TS808 (glued in on the inside in a little socket). might switch them out for a laugh and see what happens.
The first statement he read out was from Keeley, Am glad i got mine for the price i did, because if i had have paid what some people have offered me for that pedal then watched this i would have been very very disappointed..
actually if you wanted an 808 type pedal that visual sound based on the reviews say would be a very likely candidate if you didn't want to shell out 139 quid for a TS9 reissue.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCZ7b5hqaxA
yep.. visual sound at 120 quid less than a TS808 reissue and 60 less than a TS9 reissue does it for me
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i'm not saying having a different chip (which some of the ts9s had, i think) makes no difference, as i had a biyang ts-alike which had swappable chips, and they made a noticeable difference. I'm saying more what you're saying in the second paragraph, which is that, assuming the same chips, i wouldn't worry about it. :)
My own TS9 ('81) doesn't have the "correct" chip (cr@p, I shouldn't say it, now I won't be able to resell it for 300+€ to a corksniffer xD), and there are no more difference between it and a reissue than between 2 reissues - they all basically sound like a TS9. I've A/B tested my TS9 with the TS9 version of the Custom Screamer and while there were more differences (the Custom Screamer sounded way better to me - more opened and organic) they still both had the TS9 character. Then I rewired the Custom Screamer in TS808 mode and the difference was (to me) much more obvious.
Especially when you consider the differences in price between the 9 and the 808- or maybe more importantly, between them and the cheap clones, which ironically often use the "right" chip.
Yeps. The TS (9, 808 or whatever) is a dirt simple and well known circuit, there's NO "special mojo" to be found in the old ones as far as I'm concerned and a clone with better quality componants will sound, well, better. Sorry for stating the obvious :mrgreen:
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^ yeah. :)
it is questionable if in reality the difference is as noticeable as the people who write reviews like 'the JRC4558 lacks the subtle distortion swirl of the TL072 la la la ...... I
yeah, that's kinda what i'm saying.
I'm not saying for a second that there's not some good and bad gear out there, because obviously there is.
But when you're at the point where you're saying "Pedal A sucks because it has two different resistors in a part of the circuit which shouldn't really affect much" maybe you're not seeing the wood for the trees, kind of thing.
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they do make such a big difference. But I'm sceptical. :lol:
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^ yeah. :)
it is questionable if in reality the difference is as noticeable as the people who write reviews like 'the JRC4558 lacks the subtle distortion swirl of the TL072 la la la ...... I
yeah, that's kinda what i'm saying.
I'm not saying for a second that there's not some good and bad gear out there, because obviously there is.
But when you're at the point where you're saying "Pedal A sucks because it has two different resistors in a part of the circuit which shouldn't really affect much" maybe you're not seeing the wood for the trees, kind of thing.
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they do make such a big difference. But I'm sceptical. :lol:
In the majority of the ts9s its actually also cheaper caps & cheaper IC's also.
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Most of the pedals talked about are just slightly modded Tubescreamer clones made from components that cost pennies each. The prices of some of them are shocking :(
OP, if you're still reading, you didn't mention what kind of amp you are using. Have you tried using a clean boost to try and coax the sound you're looking for from your amp? You can get some tight tones like that. Try an overdrive pedal with the gain low and the level up high. I use a BOSS EQ pedal to boost the level and kick my ENGL in the nuts and it works a treat.
Cheers!
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In the majority of the ts9s its actually also cheaper caps & cheaper IC's also.
maybe that's true, i dunno
but i'd still wonder at the suggested "fix" being to get an 808. i mean as i said, there are cheap clones which use the "right" chips. and maybe decent caps too. I mean an 808 is going for £150+, and as bigB said, it's a pretty simple well-known circuit which has been copied ad infinitum.