Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Kenose on February 22, 2012, 01:44:26 PM
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Hi, first post here.
I've been playing for around 2 years and have recently started jamming with a band, so I'll need something of my own (I've been renting a cheap marshall combo). I've actually been putting off buying one for a while, mainly because I didn't feel 'worthy', if that makes sense? It's only recently I've realised I'm actually not bad and deserve some decent tones, haha.
In terms of what I want sound wise, a good starting point would be Adam Jones. Yep, I realise that must have been posted on thousands of forums worldwide, but I'm only using him as a loose reference and realise I won't get near to replicating his tone. I like tones with plenty of mid punch and clarity, and this especially holds true now that I'm playing in a band environment. Problem I've found when browsing amps is there seems to be a big 'jump' in price from what people deem as a decent amp to a good one. Realistically, my budget could go higher than stated but I'm also warey of being one of those dudes who has great equipment but limited ability!
I also really like to play inverted chords, tritones, unusual chord voicings etc, so note articulation is very high up on my preference list. At the moment, with the cheap gear I'm using, it's virtually impossible to play anything unusual without it sounding like mush.
So far, I'm liking the clips I've heard of the JSX, which don't seem nearly as expensive as the likes of Mesa Dual recs etc. I'm also looking to supplement the amp/cab with some Nailbomb pickups. Any help/advice would be much appreciated.
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Check out the Bugera range. And ignore the cr@p that people say they're unreliable. They're perfectly reliable. It's just when they first came out, there was a problem with some clip that kept setting on fire, but the rectified (no pun) that problem. They make clones of very famous amps and with a tube change, they sound awesome. I own 3. They've also released the Infinium range this winter which has self biasing and little lights on the back to let you know whether your tube is faulty or needs replacing. I just bought one of these new models and they're actually extremely good.
Bugera 333/333XL is a clone of Peavey XXX/JSX
Bugera 6260/6262 is clone of Peavey 6505/6505+
Bugera 1990 is a clone of Marshall JCM 900
Bugera 1960 is a clone of Marshall Plexi
They're currently about to release the Bugera Trirec and Magician which are clones of the Triple Rectifier and Mark IV by Mesa.
Seriously check out these amps and clips, and please ignore the cr@p people are saying about them. Mine are perfectly fine and reliable. Cheapest place for them are from Thomann between £300-£400 with the Infinium Technlogy. Without Infinium, you can look elsewhere for between £250-£350. The Infinium is only out in germany from what I can see, so since the Thomann Warehouse is in Germany, they manage to get them. You also get 3 Years Warranty on everything so no worrying about things breaking down.
Regarding Cabs, check out Zilla Cabs. They're hand made, have won awards and half the price. I have a Zilla Super Fatboy which was recommend for me in place of a Mesa Rectifier 4x12. And it was less than half the price.
Another amp to check out is the Laney Ironheart.
Any questions feel free to ask :)
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You may also want to look at Jet City, who do a nice range of keenly priced valve amps. I have a 20watter stored at my rehearsal rooms as it was cheap as chips but great sounding!
For the nice amount of money you have available, some good used amps will fall into your range. A used Marshall DSL50 and '1936' model 2x12 would be a good solid start if you want a known brand. Some of the lower wattage Orange amps will fall into budget too, like the Rockerverb series, but they have a unique sound you'd need to hear first hand before buying.
Best thing to do is to head to your nearest guitar supershop and try a load of amps out. Enjoy the hunt! :D
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They are both very helpful answers, so thanks! Gives me something to investigate when I get home from work.
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peaveys are pretty expensive in the UK. that doesn't matter if only they do the tone you want, but it's worth bearing in mind if you just want something which sounds "good"- you can get something which sounds "as good" from the likes of laney (though their prices have shot up recently :( ) for less money.
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peaveys do not sound like what you're looking for
if you want a cheap new amp with a good and open high gain tone, try a jet city 50 or 100 watter, or maybe an egnater tweaker 40
the jet cities sound huge and open
the egnater is more compressed and modern sounding
bugeras aren't reliable and their recto clone sounds like shitee (the peavey and marshall clones sound good)
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oh right yeah i completely missed where he said the tones he wanted :lol: :oops:
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Yh the Egnators and Jet City's are great!
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I saw them a couple of weeks ago and Jones was using a Diesel VH4 and a Marshall Superlead both through Mesa cabs(dunno which cabs). I think I'd stick with Marshally amps if I wanted to do an Adam Jones tone on a budget. Bugeras aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be. The first run issues have long been sorted out.
I did experience a very nice example of "the tone is in your hands" at that show. During a song, both Jones and Chancellor gave their instruments to the supporting act's guitarist and bass player. Night and day. All of the snappiness in the bass and the aggression and presence in either instrument instantly died. Whatever you get, I'd say play with some authority.
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^ Yeah, that's probably more a style issue than the actual equipment. The good thing about Adam's playing is, it's not nearly as technical as most people think, so he has room to be more aggressive (most of the 'riffs' are straight up power chord versions of the motifs that run through..). Out of curiosity, who supported?
Thanks for the further suggestions, people. Having played recently in the band situation, I'm more aware than ever about the importance of Mids in order to cut through. It' been really educational to just stand there and listen to how everything blends together.
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It was a band called YOB. Their set was pretty boring. It was very muddy sounding and the songs were very very similar. When Tool came on it was almost like someone said, "Oh hey. That knob for 300HZ was maxed out the whole time. Oops. Better fix that."
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You could also dig into he Egnater and Randall module series if you want some serious versatility. I just love the stuff and I know that a few others at the forums do as well.
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^ Thanks.
Is there any relationship between certain pickups and amps that I should be aware of - i.e. do certain combinations work better? E.g. would an amp that is heavy in the mid department be paired with a pickup that had high mids, or should it be offset with a different sounding one? I realise I sound a bit fussy considering it's my first proper rig (and the guy I'll be playing with seems pretty "ah, it doesn't really matter about what head etc you get"..), but the way I see it is I should get the best out of what I can have.
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Pickups match to guitars, not amps ;)
I would aim to get a nice solid benchmark amp, then see how you get on with it. You can fine tune afterwards, but be aware some people spend a lifetime 'fine tuning'.....
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I say take ya guitar to an amp shop. Try it on a Line 6 or something. They're bright amps, and you can try different model presets.
EDIT: IGNORE THIS COMMENT, I HAD 3 WINDOWS OPEN AND COMMENTED THE WRONG PAGE HAHA!
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+1 for the Bugera.
My friend uses Marshall exclusively. He has JVM 410H, and he has been in the studio tracking all the guitars with the Bugera 333XL. He said he was totally blown away buy, and recommended I get one to take on the road with me. I use a 89' JCM 2203H.
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do you want multi-channels, reverb, fx-loop?
Speaking generally about 'new' amps, I like the Marshall Vintage Modern range and you can get good prices 2nd hand. Nice thing is, you'll always be able to sell it as well.
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I say take ya guitar to an amp shop. Try it on a Line 6 or something. They're bright amps, and you can try different model presets.
That's one thing I definitely don't want; can't stand line 6's tones, and the presets are rubbish from my experience.
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EDIT: COMMENT NO LONGER RELEVANT
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It was a band called YOB. Their set was pretty boring. It was very muddy sounding and the songs were very very similar. When Tool came on it was almost like someone said, "Oh hey. That knob for 300HZ was maxed out the whole time. Oops. Better fix that."
Harrumph. Shan't hear a bad word about a sensational band like YOB, especially if they were supporting someone genuinely boring (at least since Ænima).
Do you really need a cab? If it's going to be used at home often then fair enough, but if you'll generally be able to use cabs at rehearsal studios/gigs then maybe it's worth allowing yourself a bit more for the head and worrying about a cab later?
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Engl.. Fireball 100
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It was a band called YOB. Their set was pretty boring. It was very muddy sounding and the songs were very very similar. When Tool came on it was almost like someone said, "Oh hey. That knob for 300HZ was maxed out the whole time. Oops. Better fix that."
Harrumph. Shan't hear a bad word about a sensational band like YOB, especially if they were supporting someone genuinely boring (at least since Ænima).
Do you really need a cab? If it's going to be used at home often then fair enough, but if you'll generally be able to use cabs at rehearsal studios/gigs then maybe it's worth allowing yourself a bit more for the head and worrying about a cab later?
If they were so sensational, they would have had lasers. Tool had lasers. :P
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There are many great amps out there.
After having gone through a gazillion of rigs in the past, best advise I can give you is to not underestimate the value of a decent cab. I would go 900 quid and spend 400 on the cab. Get an old Marshall (before the 80s and not the ones with G12T75s) - they sound great.
With a head, if I were you, I would look for something with not too many features. 1 or 2 Channels and not much bling bling, the less components in the circuit, usually the better it sounds in a band. More processed tones tend to get drowned out. A JCM800 will always be great. If feature laden is a must, why not get the JVM410 or 205, they are cheap in the UK and sound great, too.
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Regarding the cabs, I think you should definitely check out Zilla Cabs. They will make you any combo of casing and speakers. And they're a lot cheaper and better quality than mass produced
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A JCM800 will always be great.
^ +1
If you can't play rock and metal on a single channel JCM800 you might as well give up.
Add an OD pedal and or graphic EQ to the front end and away you go.
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With the Marshalls, it is obviously capable of playing metal, but I personally don't like the British tone of a marshall. I prefer the distortion of a Mesa or a Peavey. I just think it feels more fluid.
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Hi, first post here.
I've been playing for around 2 years and have recently started jamming with a band, so I'll need something of my own (I've been renting a cheap marshall combo). I've actually been putting off buying one for a while, mainly because I didn't feel 'worthy', if that makes sense? It's only recently I've realised I'm actually not bad and deserve some decent tones, haha.
In terms of what I want sound wise, a good starting point would be Adam Jones. Yep, I realise that must have been posted on thousands of forums worldwide, but I'm only using him as a loose reference and realise I won't get near to replicating his tone. I like tones with plenty of mid punch and clarity, and this especially holds true now that I'm playing in a band environment. Problem I've found when browsing amps is there seems to be a big 'jump' in price from what people deem as a decent amp to a good one. Realistically, my budget could go higher than stated but I'm also warey of being one of those dudes who has great equipment but limited ability!
I also really like to play inverted chords, tritones, unusual chord voicings etc, so note articulation is very high up on my preference list. At the moment, with the cheap gear I'm using, it's virtually impossible to play anything unusual without it sounding like mush.
So far, I'm liking the clips I've heard of the JSX, which don't seem nearly as expensive as the likes of Mesa Dual recs etc. I'm also looking to supplement the amp/cab with some Nailbomb pickups. Any help/advice would be much appreciated.
Dunno what wattage you are after but this is for sale on a local forum to me if you want to sign up to see it if interested and no it isnt mine
http://toonrockpages.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sellingandbuying&action=display&thread=50436
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[/quote]
Dunno what wattage your'e wanting but this is for sale on a local forum to me
http://toonrockpages.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sellingandbuying&action=display&thread=50436
[/quote]
It won't let you see the page unless you sign up.
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I would take a Jet city JCA50H (or actually maybe the JCA100HDM if metals your thing) over any new marshall or bugera or whatever else in the same price point, and a lot of second hand marshalls too. unless you're talking an old JCM 800 and you can get a good unf*cked with one. Nothing wrong with modded marshalls but a fair few on ebay are done at home electronics butchery.
The JCA's are Basically Budget Soldano's, you want clarity and midrange punch, this is what a soldano does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpqLHMXPTH4
Not massively sure why he boosted it because they don't need it.
There's the JCA50H also which is cheaper and can do anything the HDM can do with a little boost. But again I don't think it needs it. this is JCA100H doing metal, the 50H will just do power amp dirt sooner. But you'll be more interested in the preamp gain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyUAs26I3Oc
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Wow those are some of the worst clips of the jet citys that i've seen/heard!
And as for the boost it isnt neccesary but it can add a nice flavour and keeps the lows in check.
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Here's a decent JCA100 clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8ngqclheMM
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Yeah i picked those because of their metal orientated-ness, trust me though, sound way better in the real world. I tried the 50H out in a room full of bogners, high end marshalls etc etc and it stood up very well indeed, and they do get quite close to their big brothers for much less money
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I wasnt saying theyre bad amps. Just those clips were bad :lol:
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I know man :D
as for the boost thing, what i was driving at was that the amps don't need a boost to do high gain, i'm all for flavours and colours, although i have to say, with soldano's and their little brethern, unless the depth knob is all the way up, the bottom end is not something that traditionally needs kept in check. not too say they don't have an excellent low end, they're definitely more mid focussed amps.