Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: GuitarIv on March 13, 2012, 10:10:56 PM
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Hey folks, I'm new to the forum and decided to sign up since I need some help...
Following Problem: I have a Custom Strat with a HSS configuration, and I had the problem that the hum from the guitar was unbearable. So I went to a Luthier to get the problem solved and he shielded the electronic chamber... which didn't help at all. The hum was still there, comming from the Singlecoils as well as from the HB. When I asked him why the guitar still was humming, he told me that it's a normal issue, since interferences are all around. Well strange thing: I have a Ibanez RG 350MZ (cheap model, made in Indonesia, 2 humbuckers installed) and use it in the same environment like the Strat and it doesn't hum at all. However, I kinda forgot about it and played my RG, with the Strat lying around. A friend of mine gave me recently a used Duncan Jeff Beck and I decided to put it in the Strat. I changed the pickups and soldered the HB like it's done in this diagramm:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=1h_2s_1v_2t_5w_as
Didn't touch the grounding cables or grounding soldering at all, and the guitar works but the hum is still there! And most annyoing: when I switch to the position where the neck and the middle SC are activated together, it cancels the hum.
So: Position 1 (Just Neck Singlecoil) hums like it is supposed to, Position 2 (Neck + Middle SC) doesn't hum, also fine, Position 3 (Middle SC) hums like supposed, Position 4 and 5 hum and they shouldn't. Now I don't know what the problem could be, I suppose the Humbucker is wired to work like a singlecoil or something? I also read something about being out of phase. I really don't know what's wrong and I'd appreciate every help I get, if you need pics, just tell me.
Thanks and cheers
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What make and model humbucker and singlecoils are you using?
It sounds like your humbucker is the problem, and may be wired as a singlecoil - what's the output like?
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The Singlecoils are two Duesenberg Vintage, and the Humbucker is a Seymour Duncan Jeff Beck. With Output, do you mean the Sound in general? Because i kinda noticed it sounds thinner than I expected it to do.
Oh and btw, I just read that by switching the hot cable with the ground cable you can remove the out of phase problem, should I try it?
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Have a check to see if your Bridge is grounded as well. My bridge wasn't grounded on my Les Paul and it would hum. Try taking your knobs off your pots, and tap them to see if the noise gets worse/better.
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Just took of the knops and touched the pots, nothing changed, the hum was the same
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Well sounds like everythings grounded. Try stuff like touching the pots inside the cavity with your finger and then a screw driver. Touch different parts, aswell as the toggle switch etc. It's best narrowing down the problem first by trying all the simplist, effortless tests.
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I will do so tomorrow, I might as well try to exchange the hot and the ground wires, maybe it's the out of phase issue. I'll post the results then, thanks for the help so far :)
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So: Position 1 (Just Neck Singlecoil) hums like it is supposed to, Position 2 (Neck + Middle SC) doesn't hum, also fine, Position 3 (Middle SC) hums like supposed, Position 4 and 5 hum and they shouldn't. Now I don't know what the problem could be, I suppose the Humbucker is wired to work like a singlecoil or something? I also read something about being out of phase. I really don't know what's wrong and I'd appreciate every help I get, if you need pics, just tell me.
ok, that threw me for a minute because you're numbering the positions the opposite way round from most people!
From what you're describing, the two single coils are working fine in that they hum cancel when combined. Like Mr Twinfan says, it sounds like your humbucker is only working on one coil and that coil isn't able to hum cancel with the middle pickup.
If the HB has exposed pole pieces then try tapping both rows with a magnetic screwdriver or a key, listen for a thump through the amp and it should be immediately obvious if you've got one dead coil. If only one set of pole pieces thumps then you either have a wiring problem or a broken pickup coil - disconnect the entire pickup and check its DC resistance with a multimeter (assuming you have one).
If you suspect a dead coil, you can be 100% sure by simply connecting the individual coils straight to the jack socket (I just hold them on the tip and ring of a jack plug, quick and easy) and seeing if it picks up any string vibration. With Seymour Duncan pickups one coil is black to white leads and the other is green to red. Those combinations across a multimeter or jack plug will tell you if the pickup's working.
If it is working - check all your wiring and soldering, especially on the backs of volume/tone pots which may have dry solder joints or bad connections. And if your pickup is dead, throw it away and buy a BKP.
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Sorry mate, I'm kinda new to all the pickup stuff and always trying to expand my knowledge, lesson learned :P
As far as the condition of the pickup goes: I'm pretty sure it's fine. I already tapped and scratched with an allen wrench over the polepieces and as far as I could hear it I had sounds on the same noise level. The humming issue was also present with my old Humbucker, a Duesenberg Model. I think (or hope) it's more the grounding problem. Or the "out-of-phase" issue, no one gave me an opinion on that one yet. Should I try to change the hot and the ground wire?
I need to get a multimeter yet, so I'll just change the hot and the ground wire and if that ain't working I'll try to find the weakest link in the grounding chain, as mbchepburn suggested I'll run my finger across the wires and soldered pieces to see if there's anything wrong.
And concerning BKPs: I'm planning to get some anyway, at the moment I'm just kinda broke so I have to go with what I've got ^^
Cheers
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I'll be honest, I don't think it's to do with phase. If you're picking up hum from somewhere then reversing the phase of the pickup will just reverse the phase of the noise voltage and you'd be back to square one!
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Hmm, I see. Well then I'll just check the soldering and I hope I'll find the problem...
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You may also want to consider your equipment. Have you any pedals? And does the guitar make the same noise in all amps, as well as other guitars being quiet with your amp? On my Bugera 333, I play with it in close vacinity to my guitar and the hum is pretty bad, but gets better the more I move away. But with a Noise Gate, this eliminates that problem.
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Nope, my equipment can't be the problem since my Ibanez doesn't hum at all, the Noise Surpressor doesn't cancel out the hum of the strat even when I'm not playing and as said when both single coils are selected the hum goes away instantly. :?
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when both single coils are selected the hum goes away instantly. :?
This is what leads me to suspect a non-working coil in the humbucker i.e. it's acting as a single coil pickup and humming!
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Well that would suck... as said I'll try a few things and keep you guys posted... till then I wish you a good night
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I said non-working, not broken! The coil may be intact but simply wired up wrong. Post a sound clip if you can, might help with a diagnosis.
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Well that's good to hear. The more you narrow it down, the easier it becomes. But to say you was also experiencing it with your other humbucker leads me to believe it could be something simple like a faulty pot/wiring. How many volumes/tones do you have, as it could orginate there due to the fact certain pickups use certain pots in the config. If you only have 1 vol/1tone, then its possible its a bad connection with the toggle switch. Aother story for me was that I got a cheap Les Paul Wiring Kit from Axesrus (I think), and it was only around £25. I had it wired by my tech and the humming was awful. Now this was brand new hardware with a qualified tech who is great. Well anyways...I bought 4 new pots from BKP and a Switchcraft Toggle - Problem Solved! Maybe you should invest in some new hardware? It'll be worth it.
when both single coils are selected the hum goes away instantly. :?
This is what leads me to suspect a non-working coil in the humbucker i.e. it's acting as a single coil pickup and humming!
He said he had the same problem with his other pickup, so I'm guessing it must be the wiring/hardware. But yeah if he had both pickupswired that way, then you could be bang on!
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Indeed it would be a rare coincidence if two humbuckers had the exact same defect - a wiring issue is more likely.
Just took of the knops and touched the pots, nothing changed, the hum was the same
Check whether the bridge is grounded. Normally if the bridge is grounded you should hear a slight reduction of buzz when you touch the strings, even on well shielded instruments. Plug in a guitar cord, take a digital multimeter (DMM) and measure the resistance between the bridge and the shaft of the guitar cord plug. You should get a zero reading. If you get anything else you need to connect a wire between any ground point (e.g. the back of a pot) and the bridge (on fulcrum/Fender/Floyd type bridges it is most convenient to solder the wire to the spring retainer claw).
While you're at it with the DMM - desolder the humbucker and measure each coil. You have 4 wires. Measure between the black and the two ones which are soldered together. You should get a reading of ca. 8k ohms. Then measure between the wire which was connected to the switch terminal and the two ones soldered together - again you should get something like 8k ohms. +/-20'% difference is nothing to worry about.
Post the measurements and we will move further with the search.
Good luck,
Stephan
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Ok guys, been kinda busy yesterday, so here's the news: I opened the guitar again and already thought that I found the problem, touching the 5 way switch with a screwdriver muted the hum out. Great I thought and connected the two parts of the switch together, not knowing that this caused the electronics to mute EVERYTHING out. I kinda created a killswitch... and I managed it to screw up the switch. Anyway, I'm getting a new one as well as borrow a multimeter by a friend of mine to check everything. Furthermore I'll upload some pics and a handdrawn wiring diagram of how the guitar is wired currently. Maybe you guys find something I don't see, because I think the grounding wires are kinda really messed up comparing them to the Seymour Duncan Wiring diagramm I found. Thanks for the help so far, this forum is awesome. And if nothing works I'll just leave the guitar lying around for some time and save up for a pre wired strat pickguard by bareknuckle :P
cheers
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A dodgy switch - damn, why didn't I think of that! :lol:
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Ok... so eventually I decided to give up on trying to fix the problem myself, considering that this is a 2500€ Custom Strat I was fiddling around with and tried out a really small guitar store a friend of mine recommended once... those guys fixed the issue, the humbucker doesn't hum anymore, the guitar sounds badass and I'm finally satisfied. Seems like it was a wiring problem, the grounding especially, my luthier $%&#ed up bigtime but those guys fixed it pretty fast and inexpensive. Anyway thanks you guys for the tipps and suggestions, you were really helpful nonetheless and I love this forum. :D
Cheers!
p.s.: still thinking about getting some Bareknuckles when I have the cash :P
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It's astonishing sometimes how guitar techs can make the simplest mistakes when it comes to wiring. There's really not a lot to guitar wiring once you know how switches and pots work and you've learned to read a schematic. Treat yourself to a multimeter sometime, they're essential for quickly diagnosing wiring faults.
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Will do so :)
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Yeah - not all techs are equally experienced or gifted.
Glad it got sorted out.