Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: JamesHealey on March 20, 2012, 09:08:00 PM
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Hi guys,
I hope this post isn't against the rules but as a BKP regular I thought i'd share what I've been up to for the past few years.
About 3 years ago I started working for Hiwatt UK and JMI Amplification on the assembly line and gained some valuable experience working for the Music Ground affair but I decided to distance myself from their practices (less said about that the better really) and go at it alone.. So I started Healey Amplification which I managed to keep afloat for a year or so whilst I've had some loyal customers who've ordered plenty of amps It's a real struggle doing it on your own.
So I got in touch with Wienbrock Amps at a guitar show and after having a good poke around inside their amps and being thoroughly impressed with the quality. We started to collaborate, I've been working with them now for the past 6 months, we're about to launch a new amp in Frankfurt, this amp is called the Gaucho it's an amplifier I've designed in conjunction with Rob Wienbrock and It's a beast!
It's a 20w 6V6 amplifier, it's got it's roots in the early 60s plexi circuit, but without the troublesome blocking distortion that can happen on some of these amps in the 2nd gain stage, it's also got a revised power supply and this all adds up to the biggest fattest boldest British Overdrive tone!
I hope you guys have some interest and i'd love to invite any BKP forum member down to our factory for a bash on our stuff!
If anyone has any questions about our stuff I can answer most questions :)
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working for the Music Ground affair but I decided to distance myself from their practices (less said about that the better really) and go at it alone..
(http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2012/3/20/57a93493-4e8f-4fef-a67a-84c7cd220587.jpg)
Joking aside the amps look nice - as does the site
Hope Franfurt MusicMesse is good for you
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Just having a look at the Wienbrock website, there's a few tasty looking amps there! I particularly like the idea of a 1 Watt pushpull 6SN7 output stage, that's very intersting to me.
I notice a distinct preference for 6L6 output tubes though, why no EL34?
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Looks an interesting bit of kit
will keep an eye out in Toneworld
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Cool may have to come try one
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Nice one, just been all round the site. Some cool looking amps there.
Hope it goes well for you :D
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If it's anything like my Wienbrock it'll be awesome!
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working for the Music Ground affair but I decided to distance myself from their practices (less said about that the better really) and go at it alone..
(http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2012/3/20/57a93493-4e8f-4fef-a67a-84c7cd220587.jpg)
Joking aside the amps look nice - as does the site
Hope Franfurt MusicMesse is good for you
:lol:
sounds good, though :)
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Just having a look at the Wienbrock website, there's a few tasty looking amps there! I particularly like the idea of a 1 Watt pushpull 6SN7 output stage, that's very intersting to me.
I notice a distinct preference for 6L6 output tubes though, why no EL34?
I have often wondered this myself, I think Mr Wienbrock has his reasons for not using EL34's although our Comanchero, Caballero and ME-5 Bass Amp will all run EL34 as an option..
I think one of the reasons for avoiding EL34's is the quality of modern EL34s is pretty bad, all the valves we use are Russian Military Spec N.O.S and hold up to the punishing voltages..
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I've just finished building a Wienbrock ME-5 2x12 combo for myself with the Gaucho circuit inside. I'm going to be running the High Brit and the Ace 50 in the combo which is a firm favourite here at Wienbrock.
It's a great speaker combo and should be tried by all who wish to achieve rock greatness ;)
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Hi James,
I hope to order a new Gaucho but a combo version as opposed to the head and cab I tested one at The Den.
Both the Hobo and Gringo I tested can show the difference in the 5 pickup positions on my Strat much better than other amps. They also have a great natural overdrive/distortion if pushed hard (volume v high) but the Gaucho seemed to be more suited to getting overdrive/distortion (I guess plexi like) when the Bright switch was flicked and VOL control turned up reasonably high.
But the overdrive gets much better the more you push it and also the harder you dig into to the strings. I was going to ask whether the gain could be tweaked a bit more so the VOL doesn't have to be pushed that far and so break up occurs sooner? As my Strat has a Gibson 490 humbucker in the bridge position this usually gets there first if you see what I mean!
I believe valve amps don't work this way and need to be wound up to get the best etc. out of them. Neil from the Den has informed me better on pre-amp and power amp gain and I now have a better understanding of it than I did plus that's where I learnt you designed it as well! It was interesting to note above why EL34 valves aren't used at Weinbrock.
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EL34s are inherently a less reliable valve than 6L6 or 6V6-style valves (beam tetrodes).
Furthermore, most "designers" simply copy the Marshall 3.4k loading for their 50W amps. This loading is too low at typical HT voltages, circa 450VDC, to prevent the valves over dissipating when driven harder.
The problem with higher loading is that this causes the screen current to increase, so you need to use much larger screen grid resistors.
I find interesting as some who "designs" and builds amps how many people seem to focus on what your amp/s don't do rather than on what they do, eg why is there no master volume/ effect loop, or even why don't you build an EL34 loaded amp!
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We use a pair of 6V6s in the Gaucho and it's an 8k primary OT, with a HT of around 470v which is producing about 26w before clipping, so it's a very conservative 20w rating!
We use NOS Military Spec Russian valves which take the punishment of this high HT all day long.
EL34s are one of my favourite sounding valves but I wouldn't want to guarantee them for 90 days lol
Rob is a big fan of the Beam Tetrode Family and Kinkless Tetrodes.
No Pentodes to be seen at Wienbrock.
I also have my theory on Rob's love of 5881 loaded Marshall tones, he grew up in New Jersey and everything Marshall shipped to America came loaded with 5881s to survive the shipping, where as in the UK we used EL34s.
Food for thought? Either way our amps sound fantatic with any of the valves we use 5881, 6550, KT88 and 6V6s..
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EL34s are inherently a less reliable valve than 6L6 or 6V6-style valves (beam tetrodes).
Furthermore, most "designers" simply copy the Marshall 3.4k loading for their 50W amps. This loading is too low at typical HT voltages, circa 450VDC, to prevent the valves over dissipating when driven harder.
The problem with higher loading is that this causes the screen current to increase, so you need to use much larger screen grid resistors.
I find interesting as some who "designs" and builds amps how many people seem to focus on what your amp/s don't do rather than on what they do, eg why is there no master volume/ effect loop, or even why don't you build an EL34 loaded amp!
Haha so true, especially the FX loop.. I've tried all sorts of loops.
Interrupt loops, Series Loops, Parallel etc etc.. None of them work without screwing up the tone of the amp, so you're going to have one you need to pick the design and then work the amp around it making the amp match the loops tone sucking properties.
Sticking a Master Volume or an FX Loop into an already designed amp is always going to be an after thought and causes nothing but poor tone and or noise.
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Hi James,
I hope to order a new Gaucho but a combo version as opposed to the head and cab I tested one at The Den.
Both the Hobo and Gringo I tested can show the difference in the 5 pickup positions on my Strat much better than other amps. They also have a great natural overdrive/distortion if pushed hard (volume v high) but the Gaucho seemed to be more suited to getting overdrive/distortion (I guess plexi like) when the Bright switch was flicked and VOL control turned up reasonably high.
But the overdrive gets much better the more you push it and also the harder you dig into to the strings. I was going to ask whether the gain could be tweaked a bit more so the VOL doesn't have to be pushed that far and so break up occurs sooner? As my Strat has a Gibson 490 humbucker in the bridge position this usually gets there first if you see what I mean!
I believe valve amps don't work this way and need to be wound up to get the best etc. out of them. Neil from the Den has informed me better on pre-amp and power amp gain and I now have a better understanding of it than I did plus that's where I learnt you designed it as well! It was interesting to note above why EL34 valves aren't used at Weinbrock.
Head and cab is always the better option imo it's far more versitile.
If you want a Gaucho that clips a little earlier this is possible, just specify it when ordering it's not a major issue :)
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It was interesting to note above why EL34 valves aren't used at Weinbrock.
To dispel any mystery - the reason we use 6n3c-E valves (essentially a ruggedised military version of the Sovtek 5881WGC and not to be confused with the cheaper 6n3C type...) is because they were expected to last 5000 hrs by the former Soviet military and have proven to be the most reliable valve we have ever used... it's the same reason we use 6n6c's (denoted 6V6GT by our suppliers)... they can take extreme plate voltages and fair bit of knocking around... in fact I have a pair of 6n6c's made in 1956 by the =C= factory in my Gringo combo and they sound fabulous... 8)
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I really like the 6n6c it even looks cool 8)
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Just out of interest...
When you use the 6n6c's do you use them with higher plate voltages? I know the JJ 6V6 is another valve that can handle a plate voltage higher than what would be considered 'usual' for a 6V6, but I don't think it sounds very 6V6ish.
If you use the 6n6c's at the higher voltage, do you label them as 6n6c's on the chassis, or in the manual or somewhere and suggest only those valves should be used, or do you mention somewhere they are 6V6 types or even list compatible valves?
With 6V6 based amps running higher plate voltages, I might be concerned that someone would just go out and throw in some more 'normal' 6V6's and have them fried straight away. Was that a consideration during the design phase? Do you worry about that? (if thats how those valves are run). I once ordered some JJ 6V6S' from hotrox but they sent me tungsol ones. Had I not checked the datasheet for the tungsol's they would most likely have been destroyed in my amp, along with anything else prone to damage during an output tube failure. I returned them and got the JJ's.
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That is damned good point Dmoney... thanks for your input... we will - in future - point out that these require 6V6 types that can take higher plate voltages...
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That is damned good point Dmoney... thanks for your input... we will - in future - point out that these require 6V6 types that can take higher plate voltages...
Cooooool! glad to be of help.
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Learning more from the above discussion.
Well, I've gone and put in an order for the Gaucho 112 with Neil R - enjoyed selecting the options on the amp which I've never had the pleasure of doing before and look forward to getting to know it :D
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Started building it already! Can't wait for your feedback, it's a great amp to make rather labour intensive compared to a gringo for instance earnmy wage building them ha! But i love making them.
That's one thing i love so much about the wienbrock gear is i know full heartedly that no corners are cut, no stone left unturned.
I've assembled for a few manufacturers now and it's horrid knowing your putting sub standard parts into an expensive amp or the circuit design could be better. I know we use the best components humanly possible and the layout and build quality is second to none. Mr wienbrock ceases to amaze me with his attention to detail and ability to think laterally in the layout design
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Hi James,
Yes I look forward to providing feedback to you through Neil R once I get the amp and have time to explore and hoppefully it will be useful to you all. Hopefully, the other feedback I may get won't annoy the neighbours and my hearing :)
I've been reading up on valve amp designs and related electronic theory and find it very interesting & fascinating. I still remember the old B & W televisions we used to have and the wait for it to warm up. The memory of the warm glow of the valves inside is very appealing to me :D
Seeing pictures on the 'Net of what's inside a 1966 Marshall 'Plexi' (J Hendrix's old amp 7206) re: components and wiring made me think as a layman how simple it all looks.
I guess economics, fashion and people's requirements have impacted on amplifier designs in the years after as effects loops, reverb, other additions to amplifiers demanded by users etc. have perhaps ruined the purity of the original guitar amp design? This has also been noted above I guess and is reflected in Wienbrock's design philosophy and approach, i.e not to get in the way of what an electric guitar can produce through quality design, componentry and manufacture?
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Seeing pictures on the 'Net of what's inside a 1966 Marshall 'Plexi' (J Hendrix's old amp 7206) re: components and wiring made me think as a layman how simple it all looks.
I guess economics, fashion and people's requirements have impacted on amplifier designs in the years after as effects loops, reverb, other additions to amplifiers demanded by users etc. have perhaps ruined the purity of the original guitar amp design? This has also been noted above I guess and is reflected in Wienbrock's design philosophy and approach, i.e not to get in the way of what an electric guitar can produce through quality design, componentry and manufacture?
The classic amps of yesteryear (which were used to define rock music) are indeed relatively simple; however this does not mean it is easy to understand exactly how they work, as very subtle changes can have dramatic effects on the outcome. Clearly the less components in an amp, the more critical each one can be.
Attention to detail is paramount in getting good results with this style of amp. To back up what James has said, I've only had my hands on one Wienbrock amp, but I was very impressed with the build quality, attention to detail and tone.
Smaller builder can have more selective appeal, but a big manufacturer's products have to have wider appeal as they have shift more units simply to stay in business, and so have to include features like fx loops etc as that's what people want.
Having said this, I'm still surprised how many poor sounding amps (at least top my ears) there are on the market.