Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: willo on February 06, 2006, 08:25:29 PM
-
That, really, is the big question.
Well, you see, I'm quite happy with my tone in a way, but I posted some random clips over at another forum, and someone commented that:
i agree with the money waster part, no offense, but all of the sound clips you have posted have sounded awful...
Now, I respect his opinion, and I certainly believe that the free Dell soundcard and 56kbps encoding of mp3s doesn't really help the guitar sound good, but it did get me thinking. Without a doubt this is the forum where I've posted the most soundclips and everyone has been damn nice, but then we're just a bunch of nice men aren't we? :lol:
So what I was wondering is, does anyone have any opinions regarding my tone - is it shite? Does it need more mids, bass etc? Or am I being overly paranoid? Knives out...
I know this is going to come across hugely self-obsessed and for that I apologise. I'm just geniunely curious as to what others think of my tone, honestly - were you all just being kind to me? If its shite, well I'd like to know and improve it ASAP!
Some examples (links to players room):
Early one (fuzz into solid state amp)
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=485
High gain into solid state:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1337&start=0
Old clean tone:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1136
Most recent tone, slightly overdriven:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2598
I mean, I thought all those tones were OK, but damn, its hard to be objective about your own tone - so forumers, please, any help?
-
well im not the best to comment on this as im 15 and have virtually NO experience or knowledge when it comes to the PHAT world of sound that is 'tone'....
to me the:
fuzz seemed to take the word 'fuzz' a bit too literally and sounded like a dodgy TV.
high gain seemed pretty good (i can only distinguish between really bad and really good tones nothing in between) and to me that really wasnt bad at all pretty nice.
clean sounded good no problems there at all.
slightly overdriven sounded great like the clean.
could have done with some more chord work in all of the clips though as in my opinion chords reveal LOADS more about tone than leads....
anyway... thats my meaningless take on things...
-
They all sound fine to me, but the high gain one, at the start, theres what seems to be the solo guitar whining, its unpleasant. I dont want to stir any offence, but some of the notes used in your solo dont fit with the backing. The solo itself is fine, with some hiccups and too many sustained notes...but still good.
I hope this has been some help, i know i always hate getting criticism, so im sorry.
-
ok slight change to my first thoughts- the guitar itself doesnt sound bad its just the constant background fuzz. the tone of the actual playing is cool.
-
None of them sound very nice, the high gain one especially, but good tone comes mostly from good technique, not pickups or guitar, even the makers will say this although maybe they might not want to. The recording method will not produce good sound no matter what, so first you have to improve the recording somehow, with a good soundcard/interface and mic, then make a recording minus the backing/cubase drums, for us to make a GOOD judgement on the quality of your tone. I don't know why people want to put drums and backing into the mix of what is only a soundclip of a pickup, it just gets in the way, the quality or complexity of a mini tune does not matter for this purpose IMO.
-
:D OK 1st, your Tones fine mate if there`s any problem at all it will be with the recording process. Are you using a good interface, sound card etc. how good was your speakers for monitoring the sound etc. i no how these P/U`s sound going straight through an amp the problem is allways trying to "Capture" it on Tape as it were.....
The reason some of us give clips with full backing is so that other players can hear what the P/U`s sound like in context of a band type scenario..... there`s no point having godly tone in your bedroom only as no bugger will ever hear it. [ except the neighbours ! ] It helps to hear thing in some kind of context.....
:D 8)
-
None of them sound very nice, the high gain one especially, but good tone comes mostly from good technique, not pickups or guitar, even the makers will say this although maybe they might not want to. The recording method will not produce good sound no matter what, so first you have to improve the recording somehow, with a good soundcard/interface and mic, then make a recording minus the backing/cubase drums, for us to make a GOOD judgement on the quality of your tone. I don't know why people want to put drums and backing into the mix of what is only a soundclip of a pickup, it just gets in the way, the quality or complexity of a mini tune does not matter for this purpose IMO.
If good tone only comes from good technique, why doesn't every one play guitars and amps bought from argos? Good tone is a combination of technique, guitar, pickups and amp - end of story.
Drums are often used in clips, because they are in songs and help you keep time. I dont understand how people cant destiguish between guitar tone and drums.
Willo, there are always people on the net ready to critisize other people, but you'll find these people never post clips and are very poor players, all talk, no action. If you are happy with your tone then that is all that matters.
-
Having good tone in a non band situation is almost pointless. So clips with drums and bass and other instrument really help grasp an idea of how everything sits in the mix.
Also , I think its a bit rude " first of look at your recording setup ". You dont know if this guy is living off Ģ10 a week let alone buy recording equipment.
Willo work with what you got, if you enjoy what your hearing keep it going. Take everyones opinion ( including what im saying ) with a pinch of salt. These people arent hearing what your hearing ( on so many levels ) so dont worry about.
Cool clips! :D
-
If good tone only comes from good technique, why doesn't every one play guitars and amps bought from argos? Good tone is a combination of technique, guitar, pickups and amp - end of story.
Drums are often used in clips, because they are in songs and help you keep time. I dont understand how people cant destiguish between guitar tone and drums.
Willo, there are always people on the net ready to critisize other people, but you'll find these people never post clips and are very poor players, all talk, no action. If you are happy with your tone then that is all that matters.
Yes a combination but good technique wins every time, a player with good technique can sound good with mediocre equipment, a player with poor technique cannot, i'm not trying to create a argument, this is all true imo, it doesn't require an argument. btw, since I spent over Ģ500 on bare knuckle pickups, I don't appreciate you insinuating I am a bad player here just to critizize others, that is not the case, and I am offended. What I said is in my opinion, and if you don't like it, that's fine, but there is no need to be snotty about it. I gave an honest opinion. As for putting other instruments into the mix, this is not what is generally done, it gets in the way, and if you listen to any other pickup clips from other pickup websites, or from guitar magazine reviews, you'll hear only the pickup, for a good reason. Pure naked guitar tone, nothing else, you can really hear it properly, and in this case it would help to give a better judgement on the tone overall.
-
Mate it sounded fine to me. You could hear every note and it wasn't stupidly overdriven. I've heard professional players with the worst tone. David Shankle is one, he uses so much reverb and delay that you can hardly hear anything.
-
I wasn't refering to you, I was refering to the origional critisizm that Willo mentioned.
-
oh :roll:
-
Hi guys, cheers for the feedback.
TooMuchHipHop - don't worry about it, I appreciate your honesty! There were a few mistakes in that song for sure, but some of them that 'don't fit' were deliberate (not all though, I'll grant you that!) I like screwing around with things a bit!
Sambo - ha, yeah, I like the fuzz a bit too much! That sample was quite old, I used way too much back then. That final clip is basically the tone I use nowadays.
Cattivo - I hear you, mate. Unfortunately, I'm in no way able to afford recording equipment, so it's straight out of the Hotplate into my free Dell soundcard (no idea what the spec is, the computer was dirt cheap) and out to audacity at 40kbps...I guess that's screwing with my tone a bit. I only use the PC to get some quick ideas down.
JT- thanks again, you're a true gent :D Steve, thanks too
Steve - thanks too, I appreciate what you're saying. I'm well aware of 'internet shites' :lol: , but this guy, well I don't care at all the music he listens to, but he's a decent guy. I think he just heard some really really rough boost pedal demo thing I made and made his point, and caught me at a particularly disillusioned point. I don't think he was just trying to knock me down aimlessly, though. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion I guess.
Lepersmeesa, thanks also. I appreciate what you're saying. In particular, I liked:
These people arent hearing what your hearing ( on so many levels )
I think I shall use that from now on as my excuse...makes me sound like John Coltrane or something! :lol:
One thing that I'm aware of, is that I guess I do have different ideas regarding tone to quite a few of the guys on here, because I don't particularly dig heavy metal/shred types. One guitar tone I love is Frank Zappa, which is a particularly nasal kind of tone. I think that's the thing I'm trying to determine, whether people don't like it because:
a) it doesn't fit with their idea of what guitar should sound like
b) cr@p recording
c) cos it genuinely is shite :lol:
Ho hum....things to consider...
Anyway, thank you all for your opinions and honesty, I appreciate it
-
iīm gonna listen to your clips and give you my review
Wait.
:P
-
Hails Man
iīll judge only the tone.
Clip 1 , very good. i liked it very much. it shows the vh II tone very well.
Clip 2 , BAD, but i still can hear the pickup in the background. *
Clip 3, not good, Better than the clip 2. *
Clip 4, Better than clip 2, almost equally to clip 3. *
*= the playing technique not help enough to enphasys the pickup tone.
Except on the clip 1. good playing and very good
Q:)
and donīt get upset.
iīm just helping
$%&#ing Hails
J.P
-
Hey Willo, it's hard to tell tone from clips that are recorded like this. I have stuff I've done in a pro studio and stuff I've recorded at home and the studio stuff is heaps better. Of course, that sounds obvious when you think about it, but what I'm saying is that it is difficult for us to accurately know what you're hearing at home from what you post.
That said, on a couple of tracks your tone was a bit muddy. I can't say what's causing it, but it's the kind of sound you get when the strings haven't been changed in a while. The bass strings, in particular, sounded much less defined than I like to hear them. This could also be your amp or nearly anything else in the chain.
On the second track you weren't properly in tune with the rhythm. Sounds flat to me. It varies throughout the song a bit, and you can PM me if you want to know my theories. ;)
-
:D As i said mate don`t read to much into any of this as we`ve all heard pops & farts on your recordings. The truth is that it sounds like the cheap sound card your useing. It`s very difficult to get your Tone down on a recording. I`ve been using a digital recording unit & look at the trouble i`ve had trying to get it to sound "Real"
Remember nothing counts untill you do "That" recording that says This is who & what i am. ie
Get your band together, Write 10 - 15 songs, select the 4-5 best & then blow Ģ1000 + in a recording session !!! THEN ask people if you`ve got a good Tone !!! :lol:
:D 8)
-
Hey WFD, I think it's interesting that you like the first one most - the most fuzzy one, right? Why is that? Is that cos you can hear the sound of the pickup more or something?
I'd also be really interested if you could tell me what it is you look for in 'good' tone - I honestly am so undereducated when it comes to this kind of issue.
and donīt get upset.
iīm just helping
#$%!& Hails
J.P
:wink: I won't get upset! It's not particularly nice to hear if someone doesn't like your tone, but then I guess it's not a nice thing to have to say either! I certainly think that, if I do have a problem, its better to get it sorted ASAP than swan around thinking everything's fine when it isn't really.
Searcher - I pm'd you...I'm interested in your theories!
-
shite! sorry willo, i never expected this much to come from a lil comment...
twas me that voiced my criticism on the tone, but i did hear a rough fuzz/boost demo and thought it sounded AWFUL.
and i never post clips because i havent anything to record with (yet...) and im not a show off, i'd rather strum some chords than widdle for hours.
i've explained to willo about the tone i heard, and he is decent enough not to take offence to it. and i never realised the tone could be blamed on the recording software until after i posted my comment (im really slow sometimes...).
-
shitee! sorry willo, i never expected this much to come from a lil comment...
twas me that voiced my criticism on the tone, but i did hear a rough fuzz/boost demo and thought it sounded AWFUL.
and i never post clips because i havent anything to record with (yet...) and im not a show off, i'd rather strum some chords than widdle for hours.
i've explained to willo about the tone i heard, and he is decent enough not to take offence to it. and i never realised the tone could be blamed on the recording software until after i posted my comment (im really slow sometimes...).
I've seen you about here, Badger...i thought it was a coincedence, not 'the' Badger! :D
Dude, there's nothing to apologise for! Don't feel bad about it...I'm not posting this here on some kind of self-pity crusade, I just thought it would be good to get some objective, independent opinion on my tone. It is important to me, so if it does sound cr@p (and I'm oblivious) I'd like to know, and do something about it. :D
-
well the clips you posted here sound pretty good, i think the tone is 'good'.
maybe my idea of good tone is different from everyone elses, i like to be able to hear whats going on, so note definition is a high priority. mind you thats probably why ive moved to acoustics more, gotta get a 12 string now i think.
i hate making new threads, so is there anything specific i need to look out for when buying a new 12 string?
-
Regarding note definition - I do need to scale down the amount of gain I use...it's really strange, my priorities shift so much regarding playing guitar, one minute I'm in some Guns N Roses phase, the next I'm stuck on Marc Ribot. I think I might eventually buy a Fender amp, get a nicer clean tone.
12 strings, no idea! I'd make a new thread though, no-ones going to blame you - this is like the world's friendliest forum, unless you mention Nickelback...also, there are probably quite a few people who've got useful info on 12 strings that automatically look past this thread. :P
-
This is an interesting one for me because it's made me think about what I look for in 'good tone'. I would always start with a clean tone (hence why I've got a fender HRD and am lusting after a 57 Twin) and look for a good balance across bass, middle and treble. I'd then look to tweak this so that it sits properly in the mix so that would vary depending on whether you're playing solo, with a full band or something in between. I'd also look at the amount of overdrive/ distortion I'm using but only after I'm happy with the basic clean tone.
I've found that with twin channel amps the sound can change drastically from one channel to the next which is a problem if they've got shared eq and which is why I'm now only using one channel of my amp and using the guitar volume for different tones with a boost pedal for lead - that way I get consistency across clean, overdrive and lead sounds.
Hope this helps.
-
badgermark does the frog in your avatar have magnetic hands and feet by any chance?...... cause if it does...............
-
Hey Willo,
Ideas about good tone change with mood, track, setting, band, recording equipment and playback equipment.
You are at the mercy of the sound cards in peoples PCs as well, the speakers on this laptop does this wierd phasing shite on some MP3s and not on others.
If you have some cash then even something like the cheaper USB based stuff which is now competing with the Line 6 tone ports will let you get the sound onboard the PC in a reasionable state.
Even in your current stage export the sound as a .wav and use somthing free like Lame encoder (free) to do an mp3 at a decent bitrate (not all mp3 converters are equal.)
Change of subject to 12 strings now:
I spent a lot of time trying out 12 strings before christmas (both electrics and acoustics) and found that it was difficult finding a neck that I found comfortable, they vary much more than 6 strings do.
If it dosn't feel comfortable you won't play it enough to get used with it.
What else I suggest getting the Roger McGuinn DVD, theres some 12 string acoustic stuff at the end of it. It's also a good intro of what can be acheived with a 12 string.
Needless to say I went for an electric 12 (I may want the neck pickup rewound so I suppose there is some bareknuckle content in this post)
Rob...
-
Try getting an SM57 and a cheap mic preamp, plugging into the line in of your soundcard. It'll make the recordings sound a lot more natural and professional, if that's what you're concerned about. Personally I think your tone sounds fine, much better tone than I've ever been able to coax out of a solid state amp. :twisted:
-
badgermark does the frog in your avatar have magnetic hands and feet by any chance?...... cause if it does...............
...if it does what? its a kerotan frog, not sure where or what it is originally though.
-
but does it have magnetic hands or feet? whats kerotan?
-
no it doesnt have magnetic hands OR feet. sorry to disapoint you. and google is your friend :wink:
-
:cry:
no google WAS my friend until he denied me acces to lots of chinas files and now hes not coming to my birthday party so NER!!!!!!
-
Hails Willo
i liked the first one because its the most well played and the ROUNDER wone
fizzy no, of course... very good distortion. the others are not well played, so, you canīt hear the tone, and the pickup sounds generic, lifeless.
as someone said, THE TONE, is the combination of your finger, guitar wood, amp, strings and etc.. but i guess the fingers play a good part of the equation
i canīt express myself more clear because i canīt speak/type english very well, otherwise, i would explain you exactly what it is.
Q:)
i didnīt post any soundclips, and the ones i did, are not good sound i guess
but, check out www.myspace.com/befamal
the track Demystifying the future has an awesome guitar tone, AT least for me.
very close to what i wanted.
the other tracks are kinda fizzy, BECAUSE of my fault. i positioned the mic in the center of the speaker cone.
so, itīs my fault. my bad,. hahahaha
$%&#ing hails
J.P
-
you really thought the first one was the best played? that's cool, I just always thought that was the most sloppy! :P Ah well, no bother!
I understand a bit what you mean, how sometimes you can't really hear the character of the actual pickup but you can in that clip - the big question for me now, is how to get the tone coming through more.
I listened to your tracks too! I thought they were cool, but not really my kind of thing so I wouldn't want to make some uneducated comment. But I quite liked the tone on the Demistifying song too, the recording was quite good, definitely better than mine!
BTW, you speak good english dude, very good english! Just I've never met anyone who laughs quite as much as you!
Hails! :wink:
-
hahahahaah and those nude girls with pyro hairs? ahahahaha
i like to laugh a lot. but iīm pretty shy in person, at least in the beginning of the meeting/conversation.
well.. on the first clip, you slopped less, you took the pick and attacked the strings with Confidence.
you need to get a good level of confidence with your Instrument.
itīs like : for an example.. when i started guitar(96, june) i alwasy played RIFFS. slayer, morbid angel, deicide and etc.
The first song i learned is that famous one from Nirvana-come as you are.
and the $%&#er that (now heīs not my friend anymore) showed me the riffs/notes , showed them wrong.. so.. i had so much passion and will to learn the riffs that, from the beginning of this day, i started to lov emusic a lot and learn all the stuffs by ear. i still donīt know any theory then. i just try to find notes that match the rhythm section.. and melodies too.
and then i do my lead.
i know only 5 or 6 scales.
itīs like a girlfriend... in the beginning, you donīt know her very well, and when you touch her(i mean, just place your hand on her arm or neck etc... you do that with shyness. you can feel her skin, of course, but, after you have her trust and you take her hand more, and touch her more, you feel it better, etc) with insecurity.
ah, did you understand the analogy? ahahahaha
in portuguese i can explain that pretty much, but in english, itīs hard.
hahahahaha cause i didnīt know how to think EVERYTHING in english, so, i try to translate somethings from portuguese to english=disaster
ahahahahahah
Hails.
J.P
-
I get what you mean, it's cool. Thanks! :D
-
That, really, is the big question.
Well, you see, I'm quite happy with my tone in a way, but I posted some random clips over at another forum, and someone commented that:
Willo - one man's"tone" is another man's poison. People like different styles/tones/equipment . You will never make everyone happy so don't worry as long as you enjoy playing.
For example - I love my Cornford amp - Tim and HJM think they are shitee (too dark :roll: ). I think that most (active) people in the forum are probably metal/shred biased. This makes me reluctant to add any clips (only one Boss Tele so far) although I have a very wide taste in music including metal/shred. At least you have contributed several clips which a lot of people have n't - by all means take heed of the constructive criticism above but don't let it put you off adding more clips.
-
Cheers - what can I say except thanks for the kind words and constructive criticism everyone! It's good to know if things need sorting out! :)
-
[/quote]
Willo - one man's"tone" is another man's poison. People like different styles/tones/equipment . You will never make everyone happy so don't worry as long as you enjoy playing.
For example - I love my Cornford amp - Tim and HJM think they are shitee (too dark :roll: ). I think that most (active) people in the forum are probably metal/shred biased. This makes me reluctant to add any clips (only one Boss Tele so far) although I have a very wide taste in music including metal/shred. At least you have contributed several clips which a lot of people have n't - by all means take heed of the constructive criticism above but don't let it put you off adding more clips.[/quote]
:D The idea of the players section is to help give us [ the rest of your forum bros ] the chance to hear BK`s range. Unless your Philking you won`t be able to afford the entire range of BK`s :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
so the idea is you can help narrow down your own search parameters to help you find the P/U`s that will most suit your style of playing. Don`t be afraid of putting clips on to this section just because your scared of people not likeing or thinking your a great player. We all want to hear the sound of your BK P/U`s
:D 8)
-
I agree,the more clips the better!
-
:D The idea of the players section is to help give us [ the rest of your forum bros ] the chance to hear BK`s range. Unless your Philking you won`t be able to afford the entire range of BK`s :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yeah - I bet if you put a dog turd in an aged nickel BKP cover (Brown Dog instead of Black Dog ?) Phil would find a guitar to fit it on :lol: ( I'm jealous really Phil :wink:)
-
I was a bit self concious about submitting clips Tellboy because no-one would describe me as a shredder. I think that everyone, with one or two ignorant exceptions (gone now thankfully) is open on this forum.It is the pups that they wanna hear using ordinary gear that normal people have
( as that is how most of us experience music) so post away matey.
-
No one has to be a shredder to post clips :D, but I think ideally, bkp guys could put together the LOT, using no lame effects like sustainers, just simply the amps own distortion, same riff throughout, little lead, some chords, and keep the amps settings the same, and record just a guitar, nothing else, 20 second clip would do perfect, that would be good! for us...