Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: nfe on March 24, 2012, 12:45:23 PM
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Now that it's on the cards for those Brits not lucky enough to reside in Scotland. What are folks thoughts? Is it going to solve all our alcohol issues by stopping people getting smashed at home before going out to start fights and reduce alcohol-related health issues en masse or is it outrageously short-sited, condescending, specifically targeting the poor and likely to exacerbate the health and social issues it moots to provide an answer to?
You can wager which side I sit on :lol:
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Hopefully it gets people to use their imagination and do something fun that doesn't involve getting drunk on such a regular basis. Ask me this 5 years ago though, I would have been kicking off about taxing the poor etc.
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i was thinking about this last night, and while i agree it probably is targeting the poor, looking at it from the other angle you could say that they don't care if rich people die from alcohol-related disease :lol: So it's liable to offend almost everyone.
i don't drink at all, but i don't agree with it. because (a) it's sorta a sin tax, and while i'm not sure anyone has the moral authority to introduce one, I really think politicians would be well towards the bottom of the list of those who do, (b) i don't see why people who can drink responsibly should have to pay more and (c) those who really do have a problem are still going to drink way too much except now they're gonna be poorer, so it's going to adversely affect them even more (and their families).
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Can't say I agree with it either. It won't stop people drinking. And how much tax does the government get from beer and so on anyway?
Oh yes, and having 3 pints in an evening once a month does not mean you have a drink problem. [Apparently 6 units in an evening is a binge if you're a woman. Nonsense.
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On the one hand I think this is bad, and personal responsibility should be taught as a much higher priority in school. You can't trust most parents to do this from the exposure I've had to other parents of young kids since becoming a parent myself,
On the other hand, I can't help but wonder if my sister might be still alive if she couldn't have afforded to buy as much booze. :(
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My main concern is that it'll be completely ineffective regarding most of the issues we have with alcohol. The guys out fighting on Saturday nights aren't generally on the poverty line and they're already the folks drinking in expensive city centre clubs and the alcoholics are still going to drink, perhaps simply stealing it.
It doesn't have any positives that I can see. But it punishes folks who just want to buy a crate of beer for a summer BBQ.
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meh. I drink and smoke, and am well aware of the option not to. I generally choose to ignore it.
Decisions like this might be rationalised under the guise of reducing consumption by increasing cost, but the fact is its relying on steady consumption to generate greater revenue. All else is spin.
As to how it would affect our alcoholic culture, who can say? I'm inclined to think that people that are ####!!s under the influence of booze were ####!!s beforehand as well, and any social problems we have that are connected to alcohol are not created by alcohol. Youre responsible for your actions regardless of blood-alcohol level. Most people seem to get that. Some dont. Making it more expensive will not fix that. I'm quite sure our powers that be realise this too.
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This doesnt bother me much as i very rarely drink but when i do i have 3-4 pints in a pub and the price doesnt bother me at all.
im generally paying around £4 a pint anyway because i only drink peroni or bachus framboise when im out.
The best way to regulate it would be to have only one place as such that is able to sell alcohol outside of pubs/clubs
And then this place is regulated in such a way that people have to register and get a card in order to purchase the alcohol and theyre only allowed a certain quota.
I'm not saying that should be done but its the only way to solve issues such as binge drinking and general health related issues.
And to stop things being stolen the alcohol should be kept out of the "store front" and be selected from a menu type system and it is then brought out from the back somehow (a conveyor belt would be cool)
But again this is all coming from someone who doesnt really drink unless its a special occasion as i hate the effects it has on me even a single pint can leave me feeling less than par for a few days it just doesnt agree with my body.
I also no longer smoke but even if id did i think that tobacco should be a LOT more expensive than it is as ive only been quit since just before i got diagnosed with type 1 diabetes last october and i already feel a lot healthier... I do however miss smoking as it was something i did because i enjoyed rather than because i was addicted.
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I don't think any type of prohibition or regulation makes much odds to use/abuse. Stopping "binge" drinking is an educational and cultural issue, not one of cost and availability.
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I don't think any type of prohibition or regulation makes much odds to use/abuse. Stopping "binge" drinking is an educational and cultural issue, not one of cost and availability.
That is true. I think it would help if it wasnt as readily available.
Especially when you look at places like lidl where you can get 20 bottles of lager for £9
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I have been quite involved in lobbying against this farce of legislation - it isn't a "tax" as the extra money goes to the retailer!
All the above criticisms are correct and I could elaborate.
The Binge drinking Crisis is a Daily Mail creation more than anything. The British consumption of alcohol is at one of its lowest levels EVER! Much less than most European countries.
What we will get is a growth in illegal stills & deadly counterfeit Vodka which will kill and blind the poor in an instant. This has already started to happen.
The NHS stats have been rigged for years (this has been admitted too but not publicised).
Example:
I drink 5 pints sat quietly watching TV at home and then the ceiling falls down on top of me = I'm registered as admitted to hospital with an alcohol related incident.
Don't think this will stop at 40p!
40p won't work and then instead of repealing it we will get calls from all the puritans for 45/50/60 etc...
Smokers warned ya, people ignored them, now drinkers, next high fat food.... just wait.
"If you make a society foolproof, you get a society only fit for fools"
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The British consumption of alcohol is at one of its lowest levels EVER!
The NHS stats have been rigged for years (this has been admitted too but not publicised).
Example:
I drink 5 pints sat quietly watching TV at home and then the ceiling falls down on top of me = I'm registered as admitted to hospital with an alcohol related incident.
Got any links to information on this? It'd be right handy for ongoing debate on other forums.
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Two of my friends are pretty much the experts on the subject & have all their sources linked and detailed.
Pete Brown (great writer)
http://petebrown.blogspot.co.uk/
Chris Snowdon (fact master, puritan myth debunker general)
http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/medical-temperance.html
Main blog:
http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co.uk/
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When I was younger you could only buy alcohol in an off license and a pub.
Yes there were often fights at closing time , but generally it was harder to buy booze
Off licenses were only open certain hours usually and our local ones were well run & really kept more of a watchful eye on who was buying what and suchlike - a bit like a responsible pub landlord who refuses to serve a drinker once they are past their limit.
Now every flipping shop has gotten a license to sell booze (making lots of dosh for local council from sales of licenses), all the proper off-licenses have gone, and you see some people buying booze more at 9am in the morning.
We have a 10-20 convenience stores/newsagents 2 Tescos, 2 Sainsburys etc in the mile stretch of road that I live on - all selling booze. Some barely sell much else it seems, and often they are competing so hard against each other to sell that the prices do seem cheaper than they were 20 years ago.
I think this is one difference, the other being that so many folks get tanked up BEFORE they go out to save money and still get falling over drunk at the pub/bar/club.
I also notice the change in women's drinking habits more now and the effect it has
My ex used to go through 2-3 bottles of red wine a night if she went out and she certainly became a nasty hostile piece of work as the evening went on, and she was buying booze that certainly was more than the 40p per unit limit.
So price isn't anything more than attacking the poor in my opinion - from millionaire MPs who have no idea of the lives of those outside their circle.
I'm a total lightweight and barely drink at all , so I'm not really bothered by the price but I do wonder if they know what they are doing
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"If you make a society foolproof, you get a society only fit for fools"
+1 to your post in general, but this is a great quote, who is it?
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Sorry mate, it's something I heard and believe but can't take any credit for hence the quote marks. :P
BTW:
Alcohol, Obesity and Smoking Do Not Cost Health Care Systems Money.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/22/alcohol-obesity-and-smoking-do-not-cost-health-care-systems-money/
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:P :P :D :D
Minimum knife price planned for England & Wales
From the BBC:
The government is proposing a minimum price of £4 per knife in England and Wales in an effort to stamp out violent crime.
Ministers say the proposal would not affect responsible restaurants or diners. But they predict that it could significantly change the behaviour of those who cause the most problems for hospitals and the police, by making it more expensive to stab somebody. The cutlery industry said the plans were misguided and would hit consumers hard.
Similar proposals are already being considered by the Scottish Parliament. Under the proposal, a minimum price, such as the proposed £4 per blade, would act as a floor and retailers would not be allowed to offer potential weapons below that level. In effect, it would not alter the price of most table knives, but could significantly alter the price of heavily-discounted steak knives, bread knives and carving knives...
Prime Minister David Cameron said the government wanted to reverse a stabbing culture that last year contributed to a hundred thousand knife-related violent crimes and hospital admissions. "Binge stabbing isn't some fringe issue, it accounts for half of knife-related injuries in this country. The crime and violence it causes drains resources in our hospitals, generates mayhem on our streets and spreads fear in our communities. We can't go on like this. We have to tackle the scourge of violence caused by binge stabbing and we have to do it now. So we're going to attack it from every angle."
http://markwadsworth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/minimum-knife-price-planned-for-england.html
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The real problem with this idea is that it completely ignores the fact that we already have some of the most expensive booze in Europe.
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Does anybody actually think this is a good idea, so we can have a proper BKP forum heated debate? :wink:
I really don't think this is going to achieve the stated aims. Making people pay more for something is just.... making them pay more for something. On the other hand, smoking is definitely declining - but I'm pretty sure that's more down to successful health education (although it took a long time) than anything to do with pricing (I'm amazed anyone pays £6 - or whatever it is - for 20 cigs, but they do)
From a purely selfish point of view, the minimum price per unit of alcohol doesn't really bother me. But banning supermarkets from having cut-price deals pisses me right off - wine is one of the few things you can actually pick up at a bargain price when they have offers on. I don't want to have to pay £10 a bottle when now I can pay £5. :(
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Does anybody actually think this is a good idea, so we can have a proper BKP forum heated debate? :wink:
I really don't think this is going to achieve the stated aims. Making people pay more for something is just.... making them pay more for something. On the other hand, smoking is definitely declining - but I'm pretty sure that's more down to successful health education (although it took a long time) than anything to do with pricing (I'm amazed anyone pays £6 - or whatever it is - for 20 cigs, but they do)
when i quit smoking it was £7.40 for 20 marlboro and i didnt mind paying it.
The reason i actually stopped was because it was raining and i ran out of cigs and didnt want to get wet :D
Then i managed one day so thought why not just stop then i had health issues which kept me in line with it.
So what we really need is lots of rain!
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So what we really need is lots of rain!
Not much chance of that, Tony, if recent forecasts are to be believed!
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^ it always rains here :lol:
My main concern is that it'll be completely ineffective regarding most of the issues we have with alcohol. The guys out fighting on Saturday nights aren't generally on the poverty line and they're already the folks drinking in expensive city centre clubs and the alcoholics are still going to drink, perhaps simply stealing it.
It doesn't have any positives that I can see. But it punishes folks who just want to buy a crate of beer for a summer BBQ.
yeah
i mean i don't drink at all, but i'm not teetotal either (if that makes sense- I'm not off it for religious or moral reasons or anything like that)- occasionally I might not mind a glass of wine. It seems a bit ridiculous that someone who drinks as little as i do gets put off by the cost, a fair whack of which is (ostensibly, at least) to discourage binge drinking and the like.
it gets tiresome pretty quickly.
On the other hand, I can't help but wonder if my sister might be still alive if she couldn't have afforded to buy as much booze. :(
sorry to hear about your sister :(
But again this is all coming from someone who doesnt really drink unless its a special occasion as i hate the effects it has on me even a single pint can leave me feeling less than par for a few days it just doesnt agree with my body.
yeah same here. I don't like how i feel when the alcohol is having an effect on how sober i am, and i don't like how i feel the next day as my stupid stomach is so fragile i normally feel ill the next day (and i'm not talking binge drinking here, i'm talking like one glass of wine :lol: )
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yeah same here. I don't like how i feel when the alcohol is having an effect on how sober i am, and i don't like how i feel the next day as my stupid stomach is so fragile i normally feel ill the next day (and i'm not talking binge drinking here, i'm talking like one glass of wine :lol: )
im glad im not the only one. Yet i say this whilst drinking and planning a night out! I never learn...
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:lol:
same here. sometimes i just get sick of it and eat stuff i know disagrees with me. It doesn't help that the healthy food i like normally disagrees with me. but healthy food i don't like is normally fine. it's like it's taking the piss. :lol:
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:lol:
same here. sometimes i just get sick of it and eat stuff i know disagrees with me. It doesn't help that the healthy food i like normally disagrees with me. but healthy food i don't like is normally fine. it's like it's taking the piss. :lol:
All the stuff thats bad for you/disagrees with you tastes better!
Such as cheesecake....
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:lol:
same here. sometimes i just get sick of it and eat stuff i know disagrees with me. It doesn't help that the healthy food i like normally disagrees with me. but healthy food i don't like is normally fine. it's like it's taking the piss. :lol:
All the stuff thats bad for you/disagrees with you tastes better!
Such as cheesecake....
I think you may be right! Before I got diabetic and was eating my terrible high carb/sugar/trans fat diet, I used to suffer from irritable bowel syndrome.
Now I'm eating healthy, the IBS is pretty much completely gone.
But..... I wish I could still eat that stuff! :lol:
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I don't get the logic behind this moce. Look abroad: Germany, France, Spain: no taxes on alcohol (or almost none?). Not as much problems as England. Did I mention that in these countries you can buy/drink beer and wine from the age of 16?
England/Ireland: highes taxes in Europe on beer and wine, big problems. I think the age here is 18 as well, isn't it?
Something tells me right there that there's a cultural problem and that a minimum price won't solve it. It's just like Polish people, who have their thing with vodka and everybody knows it. Binge drinking is popular with many people in England, it is time to face it.
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Something tells me right there that there's a cultural problem and that a minimum price won't solve it. It's just like Polish people, who have their thing with vodka and everybody knows it. Binge drinking is popular with many people in England, it is time to face it.
Extending the opening hours for pubs and bars was supposed to turn us into a more "continental" drinking culture, but I don't think something like that can be achieved overnight! :lol:
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Does anybody actually think this is a good idea, so we can have a proper BKP forum heated debate? :wink:
Me. :)
I don't think it goes far enough.
I think we should also reduce the number of places it is for sale and possibly go down the same route as Finland where they have a much tighter grip of who can sell the stuff.
In addition we shouldn't sell beer in pints and wine glasses should be smaller.
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I think we should also reduce the number of places it is for sale and possibly go down the same route as Finland where they have a much tighter grip of who can sell the stuff.
Unsurprisingly, I don't know anything about Finnish drinking culture.
But that immediately made me think of the sequence in the Jim Jarmusch film Night On Earth with the three drunken guys in Helsinki riding home in a late-night taxi. Sorry, totally irrelevant....
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:D
I now have to watch that film
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:lol:
same here. sometimes i just get sick of it and eat stuff i know disagrees with me. It doesn't help that the healthy food i like normally disagrees with me. but healthy food i don't like is normally fine. it's like it's taking the piss. :lol:
All the stuff thats bad for you/disagrees with you tastes better!
Such as cheesecake....
I think you may be right! Before I got diabetic and was eating my terrible high carb/sugar/trans fat diet, I used to suffer from irritable bowel syndrome.
Now I'm eating healthy, the IBS is pretty much completely gone.
But..... I wish I could still eat that stuff! :lol:
i agree that sweet stuff etc. is bad for you, but is high carb really bad? i always put it down to fad diets (i.e. BS).
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its clearly a mistake. the minimum levels aren't that high now, and will really only affect the cheapest booze.. but once in place, it will be easy to keep increasing the prices.
i bought some cheapo table wine for cooking the other day which would have been affected the the measures. clearly cheap booze has its uses apart from binge drinking.
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:lol:
same here. sometimes i just get sick of it and eat stuff i know disagrees with me. It doesn't help that the healthy food i like normally disagrees with me. but healthy food i don't like is normally fine. it's like it's taking the piss. :lol:
All the stuff thats bad for you/disagrees with you tastes better!
Such as cheesecake....
I think you may be right! Before I got diabetic and was eating my terrible high carb/sugar/trans fat diet, I used to suffer from irritable bowel syndrome.
Now I'm eating healthy, the IBS is pretty much completely gone.
But..... I wish I could still eat that stuff! :lol:
i agree that sweet stuff etc. is bad for you, but is high carb really bad? i always put it down to fad diets (i.e. BS).
Simple carbs, starchy foods and sugars are pretty bad actually. This is a very interesting talk at University of California called "Sugar: The Bitter Truth": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&ob=av3e
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On the other hand, I can't help but wonder if my sister might be still alive if she couldn't have afforded to buy as much booze. :(
sorry to hear about your sister :(
Thanks mate.
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Does anybody actually think this is a good idea, so we can have a proper BKP forum heated debate? :wink:
Me. :)
I don't think it goes far enough.
I think we should also reduce the number of places it is for sale and possibly go down the same route as Finland where they have a much tighter grip of who can sell the stuff.
In addition we shouldn't sell beer in pints and wine glasses should be smaller.
The pint glass is my favorite thing about England. Proper glass size. In Germany I always miss the pint size somehow.
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i agree that sweet stuff etc. is bad for you, but is high carb really bad? i always put it down to fad diets (i.e. BS).
I'm getting into that dangerous territory of "this is what I've read", so usual caveats apply, I'm not a doctor etc.
But as I understand it, when we eat excess carbohydrates which we don't burn off, our bodies ultimately store them as fat. And it's that particularly bad type of fat which builds up around our internal organs and is linked with things like (you guessed it....) type 2 diabetes.
When the government, health lobbies etc go on about junk food, the emphasis tends to be on the dangers of the FAT content (they were even talking about taxing high fat foods, which almost brings us back on topic to this booze pricing discussion..... :lol:). But when you go to McDonald's and they say "do you want to go large?", which bits of the meal are going large? The fries. The drinks (i.e. the cheaper things they make a bigger profit margin on). And I suspect its the carbohydrates (whether starches or sugars) in those supersize fries and drinks which are the real cause of the obesity epidemic. Or at least, they're every bit as much to blame as the fat.
The idea that fat is bad and carbs are good is nonsense, but they keep pushing it on us.... All those "healthy" breakfast cereals.... full of sugar! Or those super low-fat yogurts Martine McCutcheon tells us about - if you look at the nutritional information the low-fat versions are almost always higher in sugar than the full fat versions.
Also nutritionally, starchy foods are a cheap source of calories - and therefore energy - but they're generally not particularly rich in vitamins or minerals. To a large extent, they're "fodder". To come back to McDonald's, next time you're in there (if indeed you ever do go there), take a good look at that soft white bun your burger comes in.... does that have any nutritional value at all? Maybe in the sesame seeds on the top! :P
(Sorry, way off topic!)
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:D
I now have to watch that film
It's good. I'm not a huge Jim Jarmusch fan, but I really like Night On Earth. :)
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Does anybody actually think this is a good idea, so we can have a proper BKP forum heated debate? :wink:
Me. :)
I don't think it goes far enough.
I think we should also reduce the number of places it is for sale and possibly go down the same route as Finland where they have a much tighter grip of who can sell the stuff.
In addition we shouldn't sell beer in pints and wine glasses should be smaller.
Simply answer this for me...
WHY?
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Does anybody actually think this is a good idea, so we can have a proper BKP forum heated debate? :wink:
Me. :)
I don't think it goes far enough.
I think we should also reduce the number of places it is for sale and possibly go down the same route as Finland where they have a much tighter grip of who can sell the stuff.
In addition we shouldn't sell beer in pints and wine glasses should be smaller.
So one place can sell more
Those few places controlled by fewer people...
Really, I dont think reducing market freedom will decrease demand. The supply will be the same, just from not as many people with less competition and variety.
And, seriously? So you drink more drinks, more frequently. You just want to make the wait for the bar longer dont you? That will make people more frustrated and increase 'alcohol related violence'.
Also, I really hope youre joking.
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Yet for all the tax and control in Finland, alcoholism is the country's biggest killer.
Sweden also is crazy when it comes to alcohol - and, once again they have massive tax on it. I remember going out with a Swedish girl in the early 90s and her town effectively stopped on Friday as everyone went to to Denmark to get smashed. Then I married a Dane and experienced the Swedish booze cruise invasion from the other end. (hmm pissed Swedish girls, quite nice :))
Can't say that Lord Snooty has his ideas right here (or anywhere else for that matter).
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Does anybody actually think this is a good idea, so we can have a proper BKP forum heated debate? :wink:
Me. :)
I don't think it goes far enough.
I think we should also reduce the number of places it is for sale and possibly go down the same route as Finland where they have a much tighter grip of who can sell the stuff.
In addition we shouldn't sell beer in pints and wine glasses should be smaller.
So one place can sell more
Those few places controlled by fewer people...
Really, I dont think reducing market freedom will decrease demand. The supply will be the same, just from not as many people with less competition and variety.
And, seriously? So you drink more drinks, more frequently. You just want to make the wait for the bar longer dont you? That will make people more frustrated and increase 'alcohol related violence'.
Also, I really hope youre joking.
I was having this convsation with the head of marketing for a major drinks company a few months back
State monopoly off licenses take away some of the power from the drinks companies from a marketing and promotions perspective and allow more control from the government, at the moment they have lost control.
It would also help the pubs
Smaller glasses are part of the culture in nations that have less of a drink culture.
I'm not saying serve in half pint glasses, just make them a bit smaller.
Look at Italy's culture and Spain's for that matter, they don't have anything like the same issues.
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...allow more control from the government, at the moment they have lost control.
And that's always such a good thing right? PDT_038
Why do you want them to "control" you?
Can't you control yourself?
You still haven't said what "problem" you're trying to solve, let alone established the efficacy of the mechanisms...
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Simple carbs, starchy foods and sugars are pretty bad actually. This is a very interesting talk at University of California called "Sugar: The Bitter Truth": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&ob=av3e
I'm not really talking about sugar, i'm talking about starchy foods. they're a pretty good, efficient (and cheap) way to get good, slow-release energy.
Thanks mate.
:)
I'm getting into that dangerous territory of "this is what I've read", so usual caveats apply, I'm not a doctor etc.
But as I understand it, when we eat excess carbohydrates which we don't burn off, our bodies ultimately store them as fat. And it's that particularly bad type of fat which builds up around our internal organs and is linked with things like (you guessed it....) type 2 diabetes.
When the government, health lobbies etc go on about junk food, the emphasis tends to be on the dangers of the FAT content (they were even talking about taxing high fat foods, which almost brings us back on topic to this booze pricing discussion..... :lol:). But when you go to McDonald's and they say "do you want to go large?", which bits of the meal are going large? The fries. The drinks (i.e. the cheaper things they make a bigger profit margin on). And I suspect its the carbohydrates (whether starches or sugars) in those supersize fries and drinks which are the real cause of the obesity epidemic. Or at least, they're every bit as much to blame as the fat.
The idea that fat is bad and carbs are good is nonsense, but they keep pushing it on us.... All those "healthy" breakfast cereals.... full of sugar! Or those super low-fat yogurts Martine McCutcheon tells us about - if you look at the nutritional information the low-fat versions are almost always higher in sugar than the full fat versions.
Also nutritionally, starchy foods are a cheap source of calories - and therefore energy - but they're generally not particularly rich in vitamins or minerals. To a large extent, they're "fodder". To come back to McDonald's, next time you're in there (if indeed you ever do go there), take a good look at that soft white bun your burger comes in.... does that have any nutritional value at all? Maybe in the sesame seeds on the top! :P
(Sorry, way off topic!)
I'm kinda just worried about throwing out the baby with the bathwater (sorry, i hate that term too :lol: ). I mean, I'm well aware sugar is bad, but I'm not sure decent quality starchy carbs are bad. I mean, sure, they don't contain too many vitamins etc. (though bread is normally fortified, whether that does any good I dunno) but they contain energy, which is kinda necessary too (!).
I'm just kinda wary of anything i read about health, frankly. Once the magazines and newspapers get hold of it, any relation to what the original scientific paper actually said is normally completely coincidental :lol:
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Look at Italy's culture and Spain's for that matter, they don't have anything like the same issues.
they also have really freakin' nice weather. Look at all the countries with bad drinking problems. they tend to be in northern europe. I.E. cr@p weather. people feel down because of the weather and drink more. Or drink because you can't go outside to do something fun.
I dunno, it might be nothing to do with that. Or it might. :lol:
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:D
I woke in this mood today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
It's not me I want them to control.
It's the industry that makes a profit selling a product that harms people that I would like to see more control over.
Each to their own, but, I just plain don't like pissed idiots and I don't like paying for their trail of destruction.
It's fine to go get drunk, I just despair that it is such a regular item on the agenda and that internationally the UK seems to be typecast as a bunch of pissheads.
Rant hat on.
4 people I know dead from alcohol.
Broken glass outside my house everyday for my dog to walk through in the morning.
I get a bit sick of the drink culture.
I'm not mad about this, just giving an opinion that as a nation, it wouldn't be a bad thing if we drank less and found something else to do with our time.
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Does anybody actually think this is a good idea, so we can have a proper BKP forum heated debate? :wink:
Me. :)
I don't think it goes far enough.
I think we should also reduce the number of places it is for sale and possibly go down the same route as Finland where they have a much tighter grip of who can sell the stuff.
In addition we shouldn't sell beer in pints and wine glasses should be smaller.
So one place can sell more
Those few places controlled by fewer people...
Really, I dont think reducing market freedom will decrease demand. The supply will be the same, just from not as many people with less competition and variety.
And, seriously? So you drink more drinks, more frequently. You just want to make the wait for the bar longer dont you? That will make people more frustrated and increase 'alcohol related violence'.
Also, I really hope youre joking.
I was having this convsation with the head of marketing for a major drinks company a few months back
State monopoly off licenses take away some of the power from the drinks companies from a marketing and promotions perspective and allow more control from the government, at the moment they have lost control.
It would also help the pubs
Smaller glasses are part of the culture in nations that have less of a drink culture.
I'm not saying serve in half pint glasses, just make them a bit smaller.
Look at Italy's culture and Spain's for that matter, they don't have anything like the same issues.
It is a governmental responsibility to promote well empirically supported information with regard to alcohols effect on health, for example. Not determine how or when we drink it.
This glass size thing is just $%&#ing daft. Lets walk through it.
Unverified claim: less of a drinking culture in europe. Proof, please. But even if true, it skips to:
Undemonstrated connection: glasses are smaller. Show me the causal link between container size and amount of alcohol consumed.
Undemonstrated reversal of undemonstrated connection. Its not established that smaller glasses make you drink less, rather than just more glasses, and its not established that its a result of a society that is less centred round alcohol, yet its assumed that IF its the case that a less booze-centric culture has smaller glasses then smaller glasses will make a culture less booze-centric. Tosh.
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Look at Italy's culture and Spain's for that matter, they don't have anything like the same issues.
they also have really freakin' nice weather. Look at all the countries with bad drinking problems. they tend to be in northern europe. I.E. cr@p weather. people feel down because of the weather and drink more. Or drink because you can't go outside to do something fun.
I dunno, it might be nothing to do with that. Or it might. :lol:
There is no such thing as cr@p weather, only cr@p choice of clothing :)
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What sort of clothes are you supposed to wear to stop it raining in your pint?
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[/quote]
It is a governmental responsibility to promote well empirically supported information with regard to alcohols effect on health, for example. Not determine how or when we drink it.
[/quote]
I think it's both
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What sort of clothes are you supposed to wear to stop it raining in your pint?
Beer.... Rain water?
That's an idea.
All beer should be weaker
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It is a governmental responsibility to promote well empirically supported information with regard to alcohols effect on health, for example. Not determine how or when we drink it.
[/quote]
I think it's both
[/quote]
Wow. Incredible.
What other private decisions and aspects of our personal life do you think we should hand over to our Benevolent Protectors?
-
What sort of clothes are you supposed to wear to stop it raining in your pint?
Beer.... Rain water?
That's an idea.
All beer should be weaker
You are an idiot.
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....Broken glass outside my house everyday for my dog to walk through in the morning.
I think you might find a moral panic is currently being manufactured about irresponsible dog owners and weapon dogs.. etc...
Once your desire for Govt regulation is done with drinkers don't be shocked when it makes sense for us to require you to apply for a Govt licence for owning a dog only from a state approved safe breed.
Plus...
Why don't we tax your dog ownership too?
Your dog places more demands on street cleaners/street lighting for late night walkies/extra park land/sh1t bins for your dog sh1t bags...
I couldn't care less about your dog but I'm using it to demonstrate that a personal choice of yours that gives you pleasure CAN be objected to in many ways by others who don't like your choices.
Be careful what you want the Govt to regulate - Once they get a taste for it and precidents are set there is no going back.
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....Broken glass outside my house everyday for my dog to walk through in the morning.
I think you might find a moral panic is currently being manufactured about irresponsible dog owners and weapon dogs.. etc...
Once your desire for Govt regulation is done with drinkers don't be shocked when it makes sense for us to require you to apply for a Govt licence for owning a dog only from a state approved safe breed.
Plus...
Why do you not pay a tax for your dog?
I could care less about your dog but I'm using it to demonstrate that a personal choice of yours that gives you pleasure CAN be objected to in many ways by others who don't like your choices.
Be careful what you want the Govt to regulate - Once they get a taste for it and precidents are set there is no going back.
This post is 100% MDV approved.
Carry on.
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Trying to legislate social change is always going to work in the end.
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I'm too pissed to care what any of you think or say. Plus I just let my dogs shite under the swings!
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It is a governmental responsibility to promote well empirically supported information with regard to alcohols effect on health, for example. Not determine how or when we drink it.
I think it's both
Erm..... you've surprised me there. :?
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It is a governmental responsibility to promote well empirically supported information with regard to alcohols effect on health, for example. Not determine how or when we drink it.
I think it's both
Erm..... you've surprised me there. :?
Is that your polite way of say "you've lost your $%&#ing mind"?
Very diplomatic, well done.
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:D
I woke in this mood today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
It's not me I want them to control.
It's the industry that makes a profit selling a product that harms people that I would like to see more control over.
Each to their own, but, I just plain don't like pissed idiots and I don't like paying for their trail of destruction.
It's fine to go get drunk, I just despair that it is such a regular item on the agenda and that internationally the UK seems to be typecast as a bunch of pissheads.
Rant hat on.
4 people I know dead from alcohol.
Broken glass outside my house everyday for my dog to walk through in the morning.
I get a bit sick of the drink culture.
I'm not mad about this, just giving an opinion that as a nation, it wouldn't be a bad thing if we drank less and found something else to do with our time.
Ok. Let's say everyone holds this opinion. Please provide any evidence that minimum pricing (or any further means of control) will have any effect on the above.
Evidence of any control and prohibition of intoxicants throughout history will demonstrate the opposite.
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It is a governmental responsibility to promote well empirically supported information with regard to alcohols effect on health, for example. Not determine how or when we drink it.
I think it's both
Erm..... you've surprised me there. :?
Indirectly they kind of do a bit of both. They set laws on measures and serving times etc.
Guys. Chill out. I am being light hearted.
I'm disappointed in some of the comments.
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What sort of clothes are you supposed to wear to stop it raining in your pint?
Beer.... Rain water?
That's an idea.
All beer should be weaker
You are an idiot.
True, but he started it with his standing outside in the rain drinking a pint
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Bring back prohibition
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:D
I woke in this mood today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
It's not me I want them to control.
It's the industry that makes a profit selling a product that harms people that I would like to see more control over.
Each to their own, but, I just plain don't like pissed idiots and I don't like paying for their trail of destruction.
It's fine to go get drunk, I just despair that it is such a regular item on the agenda and that internationally the UK seems to be typecast as a bunch of pissheads.
Rant hat on.
4 people I know dead from alcohol.
Broken glass outside my house everyday for my dog to walk through in the morning.
I get a bit sick of the drink culture.
I'm not mad about this, just giving an opinion that as a nation, it wouldn't be a bad thing if we drank less and found something else to do with our time.
Ok. Let's say everyone holds this opinion. Please provide any evidence that minimum pricing (or any further means of control) will have any effect on the above.
Evidence of any control and prohibition of intoxicants throughout history will demonstrate the opposite.
http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_091366.pdf
Well that's a start.
I do drink by the way, I just don't get drunk
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"commissioned and funded by the Policy Research Programme in the Department of Health".
"This set of studies attempts either to establish a link between changes in taxation and subsequent changes in alcohol-attributable harm or between changes in pricing and subsequent changes in harm."
Well. No bias there, then. It is worth also considering, as Afghan mentioned earlier, the "harms" considered to be alcohol related for such studies can be as tenuous as your roof collapsing on you after you've had a couple pints - ie, have no relation to alcohol other than the fact you happened to have had a drink when it occurred.
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Don't judge a book by it's cover.
There is some interesting information if you read all of it.
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Shobet is gunna be pissed!!!
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There's no minimum booze price in Spain and the village we go to every year seems to have pleanty of alcoholics.
It's generally all older men who sit in the bars every night playing cards and sinking large amounts of spirits.
They behave very well though (except for leaving their wives every night while they go out with their mates).
You would hardly know how much they drink.
The younger folks however are all outside until all hours. The girls stand in groups and the guys seem to drive past s fast as they can on their scooters in order to impress. Ages from say 15 to 20. None of them seem to drink and all behave pretty well as far as I can see.
I think drinking is not cool to the younger folks in Spain, it's only when they get older when the men go indoors in the bars, eat tapas and drink brandy all night, smoking and watching football that they really start to drink so much. Possibly it's becuase it's still very much influenced by the Catholic church?
So I think the UK has a social problem, drink is part of it but not the root cause. People who can't behave can't behave whether they are drunk or not, drinking may make them worse but there's plenty in the UK that don't need to get wasted to behave like t%&ts.
With regards to measure sizes, the pint is an old measure that has stuck in the UK becuase beer is supposed to be drunk at room temperature.
Hot countries use smaller measures (like in Spain or the schooner in Oz) so cold lager stays cold while it's drunk.
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Makes sense.
I totally agree with your perspective on the UK social problems.
Plenty of non drunk tw@ts on my estate, but it's nearly noon so that will change shortly
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17508963
Hmmmm...NHS charges for drunks anyone?
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:D
I woke in this mood today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
It's not me I want them to control.
It's the industry that makes a profit selling a product that harms people that I would like to see more control over.
Each to their own, but, I just plain don't like pissed idiots and I don't like paying for their trail of destruction.
It's fine to go get drunk, I just despair that it is such a regular item on the agenda and that internationally the UK seems to be typecast as a bunch of pissheads.
Rant hat on.
4 people I know dead from alcohol.
Broken glass outside my house everyday for my dog to walk through in the morning.
I get a bit sick of the drink culture.
I'm not mad about this, just giving an opinion that as a nation, it wouldn't be a bad thing if we drank less and found something else to do with our time.
i hate the drinking culture and big business too, but that doesn't mean i want to bring in draconian laws that impinge on people's freedom.
not to mention on the freedom of people who can do it responsibly. I was never a fan of keeping the whole class in because one person misbehaved. it's unjust.
Oh, and by the way, you know what annoys me a lot, and probably more than the drinking culture? Douchebags who let their dogs foul all over the footpaths, or who let them off the lead in parks where they run around scaring people and jumping up on them (both of which are illegal, i might add).
Using your own "cures", since you have no problem in infringing others' rights who aren't doing you any harm, when exactly are you going to be handing your dog in to the local government benevolent protectorate?
EDIT: dangit afghan made this point already. i really should read the whole thing before posting :lol:
What sort of clothes are you supposed to wear to stop it raining in your pint?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hwFxEP2b2Xc/TJZdMM218QI/AAAAAAAAABg/WCHkpZGb_jA/s1600/c--ktailUmbrella.jpg)
Maybe a little more metrosexual than you'd like, mark :oops:
There is no such thing as cr@p weather, only cr@p choice of clothing :)
what clothes do i wear to prevent the golf course, or the tennis courts, from being waterlogged?
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Sorry, I missed this thread and can't be arsed to read through 5 pages of it :)
Just wanted to point out that the minimum pricing *largely* affects things like Tenants Super, White Lightning and so on...
If you're drinking that stuff, you've got WAAAAY more problems than this minimum price policy.
I drink, and probably too much according to the recommended quantities, but it's decent booze all the way, thank you very much.
-
:D
I woke in this mood today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
It's not me I want them to control.
It's the industry that makes a profit selling a product that harms people that I would like to see more control over.
Each to their own, but, I just plain don't like pissed idiots and I don't like paying for their trail of destruction.
It's fine to go get drunk, I just despair that it is such a regular item on the agenda and that internationally the UK seems to be typecast as a bunch of pissheads.
Rant hat on.
4 people I know dead from alcohol.
Broken glass outside my house everyday for my dog to walk through in the morning.
I get a bit sick of the drink culture.
I'm not mad about this, just giving an opinion that as a nation, it wouldn't be a bad thing if we drank less and found something else to do with our time.
i hate the drinking culture and big business too, but that doesn't mean i want to bring in draconian laws that impinge on people's freedom.
not to mention on the freedom of people who can do it responsibly. I was never a fan of keeping the whole class in because one person misbehaved. it's unjust.
Oh, and by the way, you know what annoys me a lot, and probably more than the drinking culture? Douchebags who let their dogs foul all over the footpaths, or who let them off the lead in parks where they run around scaring people and jumping up on them (both of which are illegal, i might add).
Using your own "cures", since you have no problem in infringing others' rights who aren't doing you any harm, when exactly are you going to be handing your dog in to the local government benevolent protectorate?
EDIT: dangit afghan made this point already. i really should read the whole thing before posting :lol:
What sort of clothes are you supposed to wear to stop it raining in your pint?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hwFxEP2b2Xc/TJZdMM218QI/AAAAAAAAABg/WCHkpZGb_jA/s1600/c--ktailUmbrella.jpg)
Maybe a little more metrosexual than you'd like, mark :oops:
There is no such thing as cr@p weather, only cr@p choice of clothing :)
what clothes do i wear to prevent the golf course, or the tennis courts, from being waterlogged?
Both your point and dave's about the hound are quite far off the Mark and presume an awful lot about my dog and my responsibleness as an owner. Those douchebags annoy me potentially more than you
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You've not understood their point. They make absolutely no assumptions whatsoever about you or your dog. Afghan made THAT point too, in fact. They're saying that punishing responsible folks to try and also hit the bad in a scattergun approach is stupid.
Essentially, there are people who use alcohol irresponsibly so every should pay more = there are irresponsible dog owners so all dog owners should be controlled vigilantly.
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I get the points fine NFE
But re read their posts, there are plenty of assumptions in there
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No, there aren't. Whilst Afghan says "your dog" I think it's pretty clear he means it in a general fashion, directing specifically at you is just highlighting the unfairness of targeting people who don't deserve it to get the ones who do.
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I've got all day, but lets just agree to differ on this one as I'm unlikely to persuade you and vice versa :D
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I don't like agreeing to disagree when the other person is wrong :lol:
Afghan can clarify what he meant, but I think it's pretty hard to misconstrue. Accusing Dave of any assumptions is even more baseless. We'll see what they say, I suppose.
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So I think the UK has a social problem, drink is part of it but not the root cause. People who can't behave can't behave whether they are drunk or not, drinking may make them worse but there's plenty in the UK that don't need to get wasted to behave like t%&ts.
This is the problem
As I said before, alcohol is responsible for precisely nothing whatsoever.
The substance doesnt create the abuse and all people at all times are responsible for their own actions. Vandalism when drunk = vandalism. Assault when drunk = assault. There is no such thing as 'alcohol related crime' only 'arseholes that happened to be drunk while being arseholes'.
Matts invitation for a police state with fewer freedoms affects far more people that do no harm with alcohol than do. That isnt an acceptable trade to me, but, as long as the freedoms taken away from everyone else dont affect matt, its fine.
It's not me I want them to control.
This is it really, isnt it? The crux of it. If you cant see why this is a huge assumption and not just a hypocritical and egomaniacal thing to say but also a frankly very dangerous point of view, theres no helping you
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Where's my police state request?
I think you misunderstand my point and have read too much in to it?
By control I only mean indirectly influence.
I'm not Hitler :D
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It is a governmental responsibility to promote well empirically supported information with regard to alcohols effect on health, for example. Not determine how or when we drink it.
I think it's both
Police state might be a little far, but you want to allow the government to curb the liberties of millions for the actions of a few. Unacceptable, and a very slippery slope, as we are seeing.
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When did I say that?
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All the time in this thread. Like when you said the government should determine how and when we drink booze.
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You mean when I agreed it is a governmental responsibility to promote well empirically supported information with regard to alcohols effect on health?
I later clarified the other bit.
They determine how or when we drink it by setting the licensing laws and size of measures.
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Which do nothing but determine when any drunken louts blunder onto the street and wreck it, and how many drinks they have to consume to reach their desired state of intoxication. You've opined a lack of government control over alcohol distribution, outlet regulation, measure size and quantities consumed. You've complained of behaviour of some people when drunk, and seem to think the former somehow has an influence on the latter. Not so, as many in this thread have tried to point out to you.
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I still don't think you've got the right end of the stick from what I've typed matey
I fear if I type it this will go on and on and on and on... so I may send it as a pm instead.
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I still don't think you've got the right end of the stick from what I've typed matey
I fear if I type it this will go on and on and on and on... so I may send it as a pm instead.
Looking for more smilies Matt ? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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:D
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when does the minimum pricing start?
I dont drink but I will probably drop that, get wrecked, and fight as many people as I can before it gets too expensive for me to do so. If it ends up being fun, like many people, I could probably afford to do the same thing on more expensive booze anyway. It might turn my life around... who knows! That said... if it gets too much I could just go back to beating up drunks that annoy me.
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Using your own "cures", since you have no problem in infringing others' rights who aren't doing you any harm, when exactly are you going to be handing your dog in to the local government benevolent protectorate?
I thought it was pretty obvious that the way i worded it that I assumed you were one of the responsible dog owners. Apparently not. :lol:
I don't like agreeing to disagree when the other person is wrong :lol:
Afghan can clarify what he meant, but I think it's pretty hard to misconstrue. Accusing Dave of any assumptions is even more baseless. We'll see what they say, I suppose.
:drink:
This is the problem
As I said before, alcohol is responsible for precisely nothing whatsoever.
The substance doesnt create the abuse and all people at all times are responsible for their own actions. Vandalism when drunk = vandalism. Assault when drunk = assault. There is no such thing as 'alcohol related crime' only 'arseholes that happened to be drunk while being arseholes'.
Matts invitation for a police state with fewer freedoms affects far more people that do no harm with alcohol than do. That isnt an acceptable trade to me, but, as long as the freedoms taken away from everyone else dont affect matt, its fine.
I'm not sure I'd go that far. there are certainly alcoholics (a disease), and also some people do turn into dicks when drunk. One of my friends was like that, actually. It only happened when he was absolutely hammered, but he was the absolute nicest person you could ever meet when sober, and a bit of a dick when drunk. I mean, he wasn't going round setting fire to people or anything, but there was a definite change that could pretty much only be put down to alcohol.
that being said, i agree 100% with your overall points. :)
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This is getting silly.
I've no beef with you Dave.
I thought you were assuming a few things when you used the "since you have no problem infringing others human rights" bit.
That bit made me re-read your text from a different perspective, which wasn't how I interpreted it first time round.
Beer anyone?
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Beer anyone?
A nice glass of Shiraz for me, please. :)
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I have not got a problem with anyones dog...
The point I was making was that nearly all of our choices/pleasures carry positive and negative externalities which need to be balanced in a cooperative society.
When we turn to the "state" to manage these externalities society is failing and that failure should and can be addressed in better ways to preserve life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness.
There are sufficient laws in place to deal with all of the negative externalities associated with excessive booze such as anti-social behaviour & assault or irresponsible dog ownership.
ENFORCE THESE LAWS - punish the transgressors and let each man make the free choice to do the right thing or pay the legal cost of acting like a tw@t...
Being drunk should not mitigate a mans actions or be used as an excuse... throw the book at me if I act like a sh1t drunk or sober.
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Having been "discriminated" against for some time now (smoker), I've not got a lot of sympathy over this one - in fact, none at all :lol:.
It's all kind of "I told you so..." for me.
I do drink, but I've always regarded alcohol as far more of an issue to people and society than tobacco. (I have NO evidence to back this up, it's just the impression/vibe I've had for years).
When the smoking stuff was coming in, I was thinking "fine, if we're going to get all nanny-state about this, what about alcohol then?"
I don't want nanny/police-state about either. It seems to me that if you put a bunch of rules in place, it removes an individual's responsibility to behave in what otherwise might have been a sensible/considerate manner. If there's an "appropriate rule" in place, it tends to stop us having to think and consider our actions around the area that the rule was intended to "help". We tend to go to the "letter of the law" instead. For some that means stay inside it, for some it means "step over it as far as I can without getting caught".
And then if you don't enforce the rules properly... well, you're fecked! :lol:
Anyway, I want legislation against chewing gum - both the chewing of it, and the irresponsible disposal of it. Oh, and, ugly people, they need to be controlled as well... sterilisation might be an option?
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Join the queue, Andy, my white paper on telecasters, traffic wardens, middle lane drivers and the abolishment of Mactw@tty is far higher priority.
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Andy, that is spot on what I'm saying.
"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me".
-
Join the queue, Andy, my white paper on telecasters, traffic wardens, middle lane drivers and the abolishment of Mactw@tty is far higher priority.
:lol:
"Ugly people" is a very broad category, I think you can probably get the last three sorted under that legislation - just make sure you put in an amendment to clarify "sterilisation" well enough to "get the job done properly", I wouldn't contest it.
If you agree to support that, I'll happily support your "make telecaster ownership compulsory" legislation going through first :D
The chewing-gum thing can wait, it's just a minor annoyance (besides, anyone caught chewing gum could easily be prosecuted under "Ugly People", anyway).
Didn't you want something about mashed potato as well? We could probably squeeze that in betwen the cracks?
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^ ^ +1
^ mashed potato? do you want another famine over here? :lol:
This is getting silly.
I've no beef with you Dave.
I thought you were assuming a few things when you used the "since you have no problem infringing others human rights" bit.
That bit made me re-read your text from a different perspective, which wasn't how I interpreted it first time round.
Beer anyone?
no worries :)
I have not got a problem with anyones dog...
The point I was making was that nearly all of our choices/pleasures carry positive and negative externalities which need to be balanced in a cooperative society.
When we turn to the "state" to manage these externalities society is failing and that failure should and can be addressed in better ways to preserve life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness.
There are sufficient laws in place to deal with all of the negative externalities associated with excessive booze such as anti-social behaviour & assault or irresponsible dog ownership.
ENFORCE THESE LAWS - punish the transgressors and let each man make the free choice to do the right thing or pay the legal cost of acting like a tw@t...
Being drunk should not mitigate a mans actions or be used as an excuse... throw the book at me if I act like a sh1t drunk or sober.
+1- especially the "enforce the laws" bit. I'm a completely lenient liberal type, but it's pretty clear if a law is on the books (probably for a good reason) but isn't enforced, people just ignore it. heck it wouldn't even have to be that big a punishment- if they started handing out £20 spot fines for people letting their dogs run wild it'd probably stop it :lol:
fwiw i actually have no problems with preventing smoking inside public buildings- because that means i don't have to breathe in the smoke. But I'd go no further than that, and it appears that the ones who wanted that now want to do even more. I'm not on a crusade to ban smoking, I just want smokers not to expect me to breathe in their smoke, if we're in an enclosed space where both of us have equally valid reasons to be there. Which, if you ask me, is fair enough.
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I just want smokers not to expect me to breathe in their smoke, if we're in an enclosed space where both of us have equally valid reasons to be there. Which, if you ask me, is fair enough.
As a smoker, I totally agree with you!
If I open "Smokey Dave's Jazz & Fags Booze Club" though... come in and enjoy the smokey fog of smelly deadly dacadence or be asked to leave should you not like the members only practice of Jazzing and Fagging! :lol: :lol:
Notice: I said MEMBERS CLUB!
Or...
Make smoking in the UK totally illegal. (though foolish at least that would be logically consistant)
What we have now is stupid. A legal & taxable product that I cannot consume with other users indoors & will soon have to be sold under the counter in plain packs... JeeeZus.
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My dog just got attacked by another dog this lunchtime.
The owner didn't have it on a lead and was sat in a field drinking cheap cider.
A minor incident but the timing made me laugh.
In the heat of the moment I didn't get a close enough look at him, but I suspect he was chewing gum, had some mashed potato in his bag and potentially played Paul McCartney tunes on a telecaster when not drinking in a field.
He was probably a cyclist too.
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^ :lol:
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He was probably a cyclist too.
Dirty $%&#er. Did he make a quick getaway by jumping a red light?
(But oh, for the love of God, let's not start that one again.... :roll: )
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What we have now is stupid. A legal & taxable product that I cannot consume with other users indoors & will soon have to be sold under the counter in plain packs... JeeeZus.
Yep. I'm not really bothered about having to go outside to smoke - though me and friends definitely go to the pub VASTLY less since the smoking ban - but it'd be far more sensible to simply allow private businesses to make up their own minds. If lots of people are really bothered market forces would make the entire country no-smoking anyway.
Mostly I'm in a huff that when my Alexandrian society do a version of The Bacchae set in a jazz club I can't smoke cigars on stage :lol:
-
Before the smoking ban I used to shout at the radio/TV everytime I'd hear someone say "I don't go to pubs because my hair/clothes stink... I can't wait for the ban"
"You never go to pubs ANYWAY you F**KER!! and you won't go AFTER the ban!"
They stay at home drinking a bottle of wine watching Eastenders and nagging their partner then maybe, just maybe go to a pub twice a year and moan about people smoking outside!
I know way too many dull ass couples who sit at home and drink like fish - bottles of wine - way more than I could ever do.
That is why more than 10 pubs a week more or less are closing down...
SCUM!!!
I love my pubs and you puritan motherf**kers have sh1t all over the herritage of this country for NO f**king good reason.
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sounds like somebody needs a cigarette
-
Or some more White Lightning!
-
I really love the British/Irish pub!
I used to be able to visit anywhere in either country and find a nice looking place (after walking past a few dodgy ones) go in, sit at the bar...
Order a pint and read a paper with a fag on the go and wait...
Before too long, I'd have met a few nice people and be chatting away like a local. Glorious times!
Now all the little locals - many with long & proud histories - are going the way of the dodo... and for what?
Let smug middleclass c*nts sit in overpriced coffee shops tapping on iphones or blackberries but give me my PUB!!!!!!
(http://www.flickfilosopher.com/flickfilos/art/lifeonmars/pubtv.gif)
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Or some more White Lightning!
F**k off you ponce, I drink tax free Brut 33 like a proper man!
(http://overfitted.ddcr.biz/resources/brutadvert-1960s.jpg)
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Or some more White Lightning!
F**k off you ponce, I drink tax free Brut 33 like a proper man!
(http://overfitted.ddcr.biz/resources/brutadvert-1960s.jpg)
The bottle is the right size and shape to be used in your other pastime! Once you've drunk it that is. Remember to leave the top off for that fun casualty trip to break the vacuum!
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I just want smokers not to expect me to breathe in their smoke, if we're in an enclosed space where both of us have equally valid reasons to be there. Which, if you ask me, is fair enough.
As a smoker, I totally agree with you!
If I open "Smokey Dave's Jazz & Fags Booze Club" though... come in and enjoy the smokey fog of smelly deadly dacadence or be asked to leave should you not like the members only practice of Jazzing and Fagging! :lol: :lol:
Notice: I said MEMBERS CLUB!
Or...
Make smoking in the UK totally illegal. (though foolish at least that would be logically consistant)
What we have now is stupid. A legal & taxable product that I cannot consume with other users indoors & will soon have to be sold under the counter in plain packs... JeeeZus.
oh yeah, of course. If i were to walk into a cigar club or something i obviously wouldn't expect people to stop smoking on my account :lol:
I mean in more neutral places, say a restaurant or something like that.
I also agree with you regarding the mixed messages about its consumption- again, i have no problem with massive "THIS WILL KILL YOU (PROBABLY)!" warnings on it, but no advertising at all, plain packs etc. not so much.
Not that I'm any fan of advertising, mind- I hate it. But the things they're saying are wrong about tobacco ads could be more or less applied to most advertising, if you ask me :lol:
:)
My dog just got attacked by another dog this lunchtime.
The owner didn't have it on a lead and was sat in a field drinking cheap cider.
A minor incident but the timing made me laugh.
In the heat of the moment I didn't get a close enough look at him, but I suspect he was chewing gum, had some mashed potato in his bag and potentially played Paul McCartney tunes on a telecaster when not drinking in a field.
He was probably a cyclist too.
:lol:
that was pretty irresponsible of him letting his dog drink cider
(sorry that was terrible)
hope your dog's ok :)
Yep. I'm not really bothered about having to go outside to smoke - though me and friends definitely go to the pub VASTLY less since the smoking ban - but it'd be far more sensible to simply allow private businesses to make up their own minds. If lots of people are really bothered market forces would make the entire country no-smoking anyway.
Mostly I'm in a huff that when my Alexandrian society do a version of The Bacchae set in a jazz club I can't smoke cigars on stage :lol:
I dunno. That kind of thing tends to only work if you're in a big city. If you're in the sticks and have one pub to go to, market forces don't normally work so well.
fwiw i didn't go into pubs much before the ban. Not that i go into them much now, either, but at least now i'm not saying i'm not going in because it stinks of smoke.
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fwiw i didn't go into pubs much before the ban. Not that i go into them much now, either, but at least now i'm not saying i'm not going in because it stinks of smoke.
Dave, though I mostly agree with you and feel you shouldn't be forced to put up with the unpleasant aspects of smoke in a public building...
That statement about pubs concurs with my point...
"I don't go into gay bath houses because I don't like being propositioned"
OK... that's cool.
"lets ban gayness in bath houses"
Great... so you wanna go to a bath house?
"I don't like bath houses but it's good that I can now go if I ever want to without being propositioned"
Ehh? PDT_041 PDT_038
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Not that I'm any fan of advertising, mind- I hate it. But the things they're saying are wrong about tobacco ads could be more or less applied to most advertising, if you ask me :lol:
Shock horror, advertising is designed to emotionally compel people to make irrational decisions contrary to their practical best interests with false (mostly) or tenuous (at best) promises of increased social standing, sex appeal, material prosperity and existential fulfilment....and it works!
But its not allowed to work for certain things.
Banning advertising. Now we're talking my sort of totalitarianism :lol: Edward Bernays has A LOT to answer for.
I kid
A little bit.
Aside from anything else, it does no good. Advertising is a red queen effect. Removing that consideration and drain on income just makes an equally level playing field more ultimately profitable.
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I really love the British/Irish pub!
I used to be able to visit anywhere in either country and find a nice looking place (after walking past a few dodgy ones) go in, sit at the bar...
Order a pint and read a paper with a fag on the go and wait...
Before too long, I'd have met a few nice people and be chatting away like a local. Glorious times!
Now all the little locals - many with long & proud histories - are going the way of the dodo... and for what?
Let smug middleclass c*nts sit in overpriced coffee shops tapping on iphones or blackberries but give me my PUB!!!!!!
Dave, do you think it's the smoking ban which is killing off pubs (local ones, especially)?
I don't know if it is or not, but my impression is that "community" pubs (and "communities" themselves, for that matter) are dying off anyway as the population ages, and that younger people are more likely to travel to town centre pubs and clubs to do their drinking.
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I think there's certainly a cultural change which should take lots of the blame. I still drink in "local" pubs (city centre Glasgow, but local both in atmosphere and proximity to my flat) but generally me and a few pals will be the youngest by a margin, and we're all around 30.
And these are accessible, on the way to clubs, and one (The Horseshoe Bar) is the cheapest pub in the city. I think it's just that younger folks tend to gravitate towards places with chrome everywhere rather than good, wholesome, chipped wooden bars and burst seats.
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younger folks tend to gravitate towards places with chrome everywhere rather than good, wholesome, chipped wooden bars and burst seats.
I have found this.
I generally prefer the grubbier places for a few reasons.
My local dive the snooty fox is such a place. They have some awesome live bands there the staff are friendly as are the regulars but they are an exception to the rule as theyre all around 20-40.
its usually packed and i have not once seen any kind of conflict there which makes it a lot more comfortable.
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Most of my gigs are in pubs these days and as a lifelong non smoker, I prefer going home not stinking of fags and my gear ditto. Trouble is, as Dave has said, pubs are closing all over and many of my regular venues are either on the brink or have closed. I don't entirely blame the smoking ban however. I think there is the cultural shift that NFE referred to. I heard a young colleague talking about being in a pub where there was a live band playing and she said that they left shortly after the band started as they were too loud and played "old" music. Hardly a thorough survey or representative bunch but when I look at the punters at one of my gigs there are few young people around. Adding the cost of alcohol to the heady mix and it isn't looking good. My average of 50 odd gigs in a year will take a hammering this year I think. I have only played 6 this year in my main band compared to 10 by the same time last year.
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All great points.
Yes. The smoking ban has killed many pubs along with huge property prices for period buildings and Pub-cos that make running a Pub uneconomic for landlords and more attractive for redevelopment into housing.
Many old locals are what the trade call "landlocked" = they don't have room for a garden or smoking area at all.
It is a pincer movement that has seen off many a local.
No doubt about the cultural shift by the young.. but is that chicken or egg?
Pubs need to change and adapt to their market & communicate that change. We've heard alot about advertising but that is just a part of good communication.
If I produce/stock a drink young consumers might like/want but can't communicate its attibutes how will they ever know?
As for the "Binge Drinking Culture"
City centre bars all grouped together have tended to spring up in high-streets once filled with real shops and shoppers.
These shoppers have been lured out to mega-mart Tesco/ASDA out of town and the high streets left with empty retail space.
One lucrative use for retail space is stick a few bars/clubs type Yates there and lure the kids who take legal highs en mass with cheap shots who wanna get a blow job round the back of what was once a Dewhursts (butchers remember them?) and is now one of 10 charity or kebab shops filling the empty street.
It's a f**king social problem all right... Makes me want to cry. :(
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I am currently working for a brewer so this has had some effect on the business. Just a few points from a the big capitalist point of view. I dont necessarily agree with all of the points but its paraphrased from what i am being told at work
*Uk brewers pay 40% of all the beer tax in europe, we only drink 13% of the beer.
*UK beer tax goes up the stronger the beer is
*Cider and wine pay an EU flat rate of tax. a 3% cider is taxed the same rate as an 8% cider or 15% wine
*Due to supermarket deals and competitive pricing beer has previously been sold below cost, its currently only an average of 1.5p per pint profit and that is helped a lot by the posher brands that can be charged at a higher rate.
*most brand name beers already cost more than 40p a unit
*a 3l bottle of strong cider can usually be be had for around £3.50, under minimum pricing it would have to be sold for £6.50 - £3 extra profit margin, no extra taxation.
* Whether the retailer or supplier gets that extra profit is going to cause some issues
* most brewers will be releasing lower alcohol alternative that fall into a lower tax brand - expect to see many more 3% beers in the coming months.
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Before the smoking ban I used to shout at the radio/TV everytime I'd hear someone say "I don't go to pubs because my hair/clothes stink... I can't wait for the ban"
"You never go to pubs ANYWAY you F**KER!! and you won't go AFTER the ban!"
They stay at home drinking a bottle of wine watching Eastenders and nagging their partner then maybe, just maybe go to a pub twice a year and moan about people smoking outside!
I know way too many dull ass couples who sit at home and drink like fish - bottles of wine - way more than I could ever do.
That is why more than 10 pubs a week more or less are closing down...
SCUM!!!
I love my pubs and you puritan motherf**kers have sh1t all over the herritage of this country for NO f**king good reason.
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+1
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Dave, though I mostly agree with you and feel you shouldn't be forced to put up with the unpleasant aspects of smoke in a public building...
That statement about pubs concurs with my point...
"I don't go into gay bath houses because I don't like being propositioned"
OK... that's cool.
"lets ban gayness in bath houses"
Great... so you wanna go to a bath house?
"I don't like bath houses but it's good that I can now go if I ever want to without being propositioned"
Ehh? PDT_041 PDT_038
well, i sorta see your point, but at the same time it's not beyond the realms of possibility that i might go into one. and i certainly went into them a fair bit when i was younger and was pissed off at the stink all the time. and also it's not just pubs, it's many types of public building (restaurants, say).
there's also the whole effect it's having on people who work there. I know a lot of the people wanted it banned for that reason (which i'd also have sympathy with).
Shock horror, advertising is designed to emotionally compel people to make irrational decisions contrary to their practical best interests with false (mostly) or tenuous (at best) promises of increased social standing, sex appeal, material prosperity and existential fulfilment....and it works!
But its not allowed to work for certain things.
Banning advertising. Now we're talking my sort of totalitarianism :lol: Edward Bernays has A LOT to answer for.
I kid
A little bit.
Aside from anything else, it does no good. Advertising is a red queen effect. Removing that consideration and drain on income just makes an equally level playing field more ultimately profitable.
hehe :lol:
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There's still lots of decent 'real' pubs around. Generally the ones that offer a decent selection of real ales and decent food. It's a pity so many are going but most of the really good ones should remain.
But what was the norm, will become the niche.
I think part of the blame is because the brewery's are seeing how much money wanky bars make, so they close the low profit local local pubs and open new bars that attract the crowd with the $$$
I think the smoking ban is a bit of a smokescreen, an excuse for brewery's to close down pubs that have been there years that would otherwise cause outcry.... 'but we have to close it, the smoking ban has made everybody drink wine at home'...
In truth, lots of the older heavy drinkers now go to Wetherspoons where they can get the cheapest pints, stay away from the wife and soak up some of that amazing atmosphere. Honestly, just go to a big Wetherspoones, the amount of old boys in there at the weekend could fill 10 ordinary pubs.
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Flicked through the thread but is it me or do these "debates" turn into an episode of loose women?
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Dave, though I mostly agree with you and feel you shouldn't be forced to put up with the unpleasant aspects of smoke in a public building...
That statement about pubs concurs with my point...
"I don't go into gay bath houses because I don't like being propositioned"
OK... that's cool.
"lets ban gayness in bath houses"
Great... so you wanna go to a bath house?
"I don't like bath houses but it's good that I can now go if I ever want to without being propositioned"
Ehh? PDT_041 PDT_038
well, i sorta see your point, but at the same time it's not beyond the realms of possibility that i might go into one. and i certainly went into them a fair bit when i was younger and was pissed off at the stink all the time.
Eh? Still talking about bath houses? :?
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I think part of the blame is because the brewery's are seeing how much money wanky bars make, so they close the low profit local local pubs and open new bars that attract the crowd with the $$$
that is not the breweries - at least not most of them.
other than Greene King, Sam Smiths and Marstons most Uk brewers are not responsible for the outlets, and those guys are not known for their trendy wine bars ;)
The big uk brewers (molson coors, Heinekin UK, Carlsberg Uk, AB Inbev - yes all brought out by foreign companies) are just brewers/suppliers/wholesalers.
most pubs in the UK not tied to a big chain (punch, spirit, weatherspoons, barracuda etc etc) are free from any ties with a brewery - which is why you tend to see much more choice/variety from different brewers on bars nowadays
your comments could apply to a company like punch though, they have all kinds of pubs in their portfolio and would have the power to do as you suggest.
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*most brand name beers already cost more than 40p a unit
I'm not sure what's being implied here, but this does not mean they wont increase in price with minimum pricing. I think they're increase quite sharply to maintain the perception of a difference in quality between the value and premium brands.
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Just a fact - we have a new government policy on minimum pricing which currently wouldnt change the price on most brand name beers.
i think you may be right about brewers charging more for the perception of quality - but that already happens anyway. hence the price difference between brands like peroni and coors light, carling and corona etc...
but its a very competitive market at the moment and prices are dictated more by the large retailers than they are by the brewers. it will be interesting to see if minimum pricing changes that and who gets any extra profit.
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Yeah, I know what you're saying. Just it's a bit of a red herring that currently most brand drinks are above the pricing anyway, as it would still change them, because when Tesco's Bierre Speciale is as expensive as Carling, they still want to shift the Bierre Speciale, so the Carling goes up by the same distance. I think it'd be retailers rather than breweries pushing it up.
Will probably be far more notable on spirits than beer, though.
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Dave, though I mostly agree with you and feel you shouldn't be forced to put up with the unpleasant aspects of smoke in a public building...
That statement about pubs concurs with my point...
"I don't go into gay bath houses because I don't like being propositioned"
OK... that's cool.
"lets ban gayness in bath houses"
Great... so you wanna go to a bath house?
"I don't like bath houses but it's good that I can now go if I ever want to without being propositioned"
Ehh? PDT_041 PDT_038
well, i sorta see your point, but at the same time it's not beyond the realms of possibility that i might go into one. and i certainly went into them a fair bit when i was younger and was pissed off at the stink all the time.
Eh? Still talking about bath houses? :?
I noticed that but didn't like to mention... :o I s'pose you learn something new about people everyday. :lol: :lol:
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Minimum price per unit doesn't totally explain why a pint of watered down beer at a gig costs £4.25
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Flicked through the thread but is it me or do these "debates" turn into an episode of loose women?
you tell me, i've never watched loose women :lol:
Eh? Still talking about bath houses? :?
ahahahahahahahahaha i totally missed that
i meant pubs, obviously :lol:
I noticed that but didn't like to mention... :o I s'pose you learn something new about people everyday. :lol: :lol:
:oops: :lol:
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Minimum price per unit doesn't totally explain why a pint of watered down beer at a gig costs £4.25
It's quite a lot of effort to go about watering down the beer. Someone's got to pay for all those man hours!
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Flicked through the thread but is it me or do these "debates" turn into an episode of loose women?
you tell me, i've never watched loose women :lol:
Watched 5 minutes while flicking, one presenter had an emotional out burst to something she has no direct control over.
Making a fuss over variables you cannot control is just mental masturbation.
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Making a fuss over variables you cannot control is just mental masturbation.
Do you personally have the right to vote in the UK? (if not ignore the following statement)
I'm not usually blunt and will happily explain my point if required but ...
You sir, have just talked absolute bullsh1t...
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Making a fuss over variables you cannot control is just mental masturbation.
Do you personally have the right to vote in the UK? (if not ignore the following statement)
I'm not usually blunt and will happily explain my point if required but ...
You sir, have just talked absolute bullsh1t...
Hmm i kinda agree with him.
Whats the point in worrying about something that you don't have any control over?
Saying that though people still worry even though worrying wont change a thing
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You're all talkin shitee.
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Are we gonna end up with loads of moonshiners? - I do hope so :lol:
The price increases do take the piss though for the people who go out for a few social beers once/twice a month (i.e. me). The binge drinking problem is not a pricing issue, its a social/cultural issue and people who go out every weekend to get blasted will do so anyway (we've all been there and you generally grow out of it in your 30s).
So, who's gonna vote the Tories and Lib Dems back in next time since they're clearly doing such a better job ??!?!?!?!? :roll:
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Are we gonna end up with loads of moonshiners? - I do hope so :lol:
The price increases do take the piss though for the people who go out for a few social beers once/twice a month (i.e. me). The binge drinking problem is not a pricing issue, its a social/cultural issue and people who go out every weekend to get blasted will do so anyway (we've all been there and you generally grow out of it in your 30s).
So, who's gonna vote the Tories and Lib Dems back in next time since they're clearly doing such a better job ??!?!?!?!? :roll:
I grew out of it around 23 :D
And i never voted for them in the first place as i knew it would end up like this
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Are we gonna end up with loads of moonshiners? - I do hope so :lol:
The price increases do take the piss though for the people who go out for a few social beers once/twice a month (i.e. me). The binge drinking problem is not a pricing issue, its a social/cultural issue and people who go out every weekend to get blasted will do so anyway (we've all been there and you generally grow out of it in your 30s).
So, who's gonna vote the Tories and Lib Dems back in next time since they're clearly doing such a better job ??!?!?!?!? :roll:
i agree with your point, but don't act like everyone's the same. I never went out and got blasted every weekend. I don't much give a shite if people do (as long as they don't beat me up or throw up over my car or something- far as i'm concerned people can do what they like as long as they're not hurting others, as long as they afford me the same courtesy), but don't act like it's a problem for which everyone is equally to blame.
it's like the recession, "oh, everyone was living too high on the never-never, we're all to blame".
Nah, plenty of people weren't.
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Are we gonna end up with loads of moonshiners? - I do hope so :lol:
The price increases do take the piss though for the people who go out for a few social beers once/twice a month (i.e. me). The binge drinking problem is not a pricing issue, its a social/cultural issue and people who go out every weekend to get blasted will do so anyway (we've all been there and you generally grow out of it in your 30s).
So, who's gonna vote the Tories and Lib Dems back in next time since they're clearly doing such a better job ??!?!?!?!? :roll:
Are you really going to tell me you drink Tenants Extra or White Lightning on your occasional once/twice a month social beer outings??
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It's not only those that will go up in price.
Though for the record, I do drink white cider once or twice a month.
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It is only those that fall below the minimum pricing that will have to go up.
Free market pressures will keep the middle of the market from inflating by much. There's always a reseller out there looking to undercut others, that's just an inescapable and useful feature of capitalism.
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It is only those that fall below the minimum pricing that will have to go up.
Free market pressures will keep the middle of the market from inflating by much. There's always a reseller out there looking to undercut others, that's just an inescapable and useful feature of capitalism.
What about the proposal that they're going to ban retailers from making bulk-discount or buy-one-get-one-free offers on booze?
That would amount to a significant price increase for the middle of the market, assuming most of us look out for what's on special offer.
(Although there was some suggestion that there could be a legal challenge to such a ban)
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The entire thing is legally dodgy!
The EU competition law seems to be the only one we choose to ignore in Britain..
The UK plow ahead with
1) Minimum prices
2) Plain Pack Cigs
3) VAT on hot food (the pasty tax was only to stop the chip shops from taking the Govt to the Euro courts)
4) Can't order cigs over the internet from another EU country where cheaper tax rates apply...
BUT... we must NEVER deport terrorists!
Exception can be made if you are a British citizen and wanted by the USA for anything even copyright crime that isn't even a crime in the UK or if an EU arrest warrant has been issues by a tin-pot judge in portugal...
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It is only those that fall below the minimum pricing that will have to go up.
Free market pressures will keep the middle of the market from inflating by much. There's always a reseller out there looking to undercut others, that's just an inescapable and useful feature of capitalism.
It's only those below minimum pricing that will HAVE to go up. But when Tesco vodka is £16, you're not going to be able to buy Smirnof at £17.
Also, I think people grossly underestimate the amount of drink that falls below the minimum pricing. 45% of alcohol sold in the UK is below the 40p. It was as high as 60 or 70% for 50p. The majority of the lower cost branded beers (say Tennents, Carling etc) are sold at below 40p a unit in multipacks when on offer - which is near constantly - and they're not exactly low sellers.
It's been a LONG time since I've bought a multipack at over 40p a unit.
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Are we gonna end up with loads of moonshiners? - I do hope so :lol:
The price increases do take the piss though for the people who go out for a few social beers once/twice a month (i.e. me). The binge drinking problem is not a pricing issue, its a social/cultural issue and people who go out every weekend to get blasted will do so anyway (we've all been there and you generally grow out of it in your 30s).
So, who's gonna vote the Tories and Lib Dems back in next time since they're clearly doing such a better job ??!?!?!?!? :roll:
Not binge drinking? depends if you believe the government or not. for me, as a woman, if i have three pints in one night, that's a binge according to them. i believe it's either four or five pints for men. That is not a lot of beer.
having sat in Casualty recently, three pints more than once a month is considered to be a problem according to the posters.
No, it isn't.
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It's the threshold at which it can start to have negative health consequences, it's not saying that if you drink more than 6 units a night twice a month every month that you're an alcoholic, it's saying you should think about your drinking habits.
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I am an adult.
I workout 5 times a week... HARD.
I get pi$$ed up once a week... HARD
(hopefully, closely followed by f**king someone.... HARD).
Could the Govt please leave me the f**k alone. :x
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+ 1
'cept I don't 'work out' quite as much as that ! 8)
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Hmmm, I work out 7 times a week.... fairly HARD.
I don't do any of the other stuff.
Am I missing out? :?
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It's the threshold at which it can start to have negative health consequences, it's not saying that if you drink more than 6 units a night twice a month every month that you're an alcoholic, it's saying you should think about your drinking habits.
There's a difference between being a heavy drinker and being an alcoholic. As for my drinking habits... they've varied over the years. From a pint or so every night when i was at university, to several pints twice a week, to three pints once a month. That's not including the times when I've not drunk anything.
You may say that some of those times were too much. The point is, I *can* stop after one pint. Or after two pints. And having a pint today doesn't make me want another tomorrow.
I'll repeat. 3 pints is *not* a binge. Sorry if that sounds defensive, but that can't be stated often enough.
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Define binge then? You say it can't be stated enough, but how are you defining binge? The definition that the health promotion is using is that you intermittently drink more than is good for you on a semi-regular basis.
If you ate 3 chocolate bars in an evening you'd probably describe that as a binge.
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+ 1
'cept I don't 'work out' quite as much as that ! 8)
As the last time I checked there wasn't a workout for your liver (medicinal Qigong aside), perhaps not ;)
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Define binge then? You say it can't be stated enough, but how are you defining binge? The definition that the health promotion is using is that you intermittently drink more than is good for you on a semi-regular basis.
If you ate 3 chocolate bars in an evening you'd probably describe that as a binge.
Er, no I wouldn't. Unless we're talking about maybe one pound bars. and I fail to see what the semi-regular basis thing has to do with anything. Define binge? To me, a binge is a large quantity of something. Something done to excess, regardless of how often or not. Eating two 12 inch pizzas would be a binge. Drinking 6 litres of *anything* (even water) would be a binge.
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Something done to excess
This being the point surely?
It's the threshold at which it can start to have negative health consequences,
The regularity thing being because if you only do it once it's not that big a deal, if you do it with regularity then it's an issue.
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Something done to excess
This being the point surely?
It's the threshold at which it can start to have negative health consequences,
The regularity thing being because if you only do it once it's not that big a deal, if you do it with regularity then it's an issue.
tell you what, I'll switch to 2 pints a night, 3 times a week. because that won't be so bad for me... yes... of course it won't (sarcasm)
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Yes, because taking 8 paracetamol a day 3 times a week is as bad for you as taking 30 in one go (heavy sarcasm) :roll:
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:lol: touché
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Because yes, the difference between two and three is the same as between eight and thirty. Oh wait *no it isn't*. And i couldn't give a stuff about it being the same principle.
Look, I'm not going to argue anymore, because... well, I can't see the point. We'll have to agree to disagree, and if you can't then... (shrug) not my problem.
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It appears it is your problem, as you're the one who's taking it all very personally. It's about the amount that your body can safely metabolise. Once you're past that point you've crossed the toxic threshold of the substance and your body will suffer. If you do that with regularity it's a problem.
It's not complicated.
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^ yep
8 paracetamol (assuming 500mg tablets) is, as far as i'm aware, the maximum safe daily dose.
from the looks of it 2 pints is the safe daily beer dose (obviously depending on strength etc.).
pretty much a straight analogy :?