Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Tappivanukas on April 17, 2012, 02:50:41 PM
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So I'm going to buy Fender American Standard Stratocaster. It has alder body, maple neck and maple fingerboard. I've got already Nailbombs in my Gibson Explorer, so I would like to try something less hot for Strat.
First for the humbucker. I'm interested in Vintage Hot series, especially VHII and Black Dog. I can consider Vintage and Contemporary series too if you think they would suit my needs better. From Vintage series I'm interested in The Mule and Riff Raff and from Contemporary series Holy Diver, Crawler and Rebel Yell. For single coils I was thinking Irish Tour or Slow Hand. If somehting else would be better, tell me.
I mainly play traditional Heavy Metal like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, King Diamond, Mercyful Fate, Accept, Angel Witch, etc... So I think I don't need too much gain even all those bands have distorted/overdriven guitars. I also play some 70's hard rock like Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Rainbow and some blues too.
The pickups should have good clarity, sound big and edgy, tight but not too tight, singing and screaming leads and have good dynamics. Good cleans would be plus too.
So guys tell me what pickups would suit my need best.
I hope my English is good enough that you can understand me. 8) Thanks!!!
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Hi and welcome!
For the bridge pickup VHII would tick all the boxes you listed. If you want more output, go Rebel Yell.
For the single coils it depends if you want to split the VHII in the #4 position (#1=neck, #5=bridge) or keep it as a full humbucker. If you go VHII and split, Mothers Milk would be a good combination - I think Telerocker has that. If you go VHII unsplit or Rebel Yell, Irish Tours would be a good match according to the description.
I am yet to try the BKP singles, however so I am going purely by description and what I have read in the forum.
Cheers Stephan
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Hi and welcome!
For the bridge pickup VHII would tick all the boxes you listed. If you want more output, go Rebel Yell.
For the single coils it depends if you want to split the VHII in the #4 position (#1=neck, #5=bridge) or keep it as a full humbucker. If you go VHII and split, Mothers Milk would be a good combination - I think Telerocker has that. If you go VHII unsplit or Rebel Yell, Irish Tours would be a good match according to the description.
I am yet to try the BKP singles, however so I am going purely by description and what I have read in the forum.
Cheers Stephan
Yes Ihave VHII and Mothers Milks in my Fender American Series HSS-strat. Ash body and rosewood fretboard. With a maple neck I would prefer Irish Tours or Slowhands (more mids, still good cleans). The VHII is really balanced in a strat. It provides wicked leadtones when you dig in. Very touchsensitive pickup, punchy and cleans up well too. Splitted tones are good.
In my other customstrat (swampash, maple neck, ebony fretboard) I have a Crawler and IT's. This set sounds a bit bigger. The Crawler is fat, with a round but not dull topend (enough treble). Really growls when pushed. Leadtones above the 12 freth keep their weight. A PAF on steroids. Splits very well with the middle IT. I have it wired that I can use Crawler full with middle IT and splitted with middle-IT.
There are more good combo's:
Abraxas (a leaner, bit more chimey Crawler) + Slowhands or Irish Tours. Or an IT in the middle and Slowhand in the neck.
Holy Diver (more modern sounding) + Slowhands or Irish Tours.
Choiche is for all a matter of taste.
I think a Holy Diver/Slowhands combi would fit your musicstyle.
I would not put a Rebel Yell in this strat. I think the RY excels in darker sounding guitars (mahogany). Could be too bright in a strat.
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I'll always be the first to praise the RY, but they're not in their comfort zone in bright guitars. Then again, some eq'ing and height adjustments could fix that. Riff raff could work, as well as VHII. I'd personally go VH
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I've realized over the years that buying something with the mindset "I'll change/do this or that to fix it" has left me with empty pockets and a new problem.
I'm an American Strat alder maple/maple diehard. Stay away from the RY, RR and god forbid you ever put an Emerald in there, unless you want to invest into a parametric EQ. The highs are gonna take your head off or at the least irritate your ears. When you try to fix it, you'll also be taking away other frequencies that need to stay...unless you want to invest in a world class parametric EQ, just so you can have that particular pickup?
All the suggestions and combinations Telerocker has stated will be quite lovely in your guitar performing your listed tone desires. Listen to clips too, but IMO you'll love the varieties he has suggested.
Good luck. :)
Edit: grammer.
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I'm interested in Vintage Hot series, especially VHII and Black Dog. I can consider Vintage and Contemporary series too if you think they would suit my needs better. From Vintage series I'm interested in The Mule and Riff Raff and from Contemporary series Holy Diver, Crawler and Rebel Yell. For single coils I was thinking Irish Tour or Slow Hand. If somehting else would be better, tell me.
I mainly play traditional Heavy Metal like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, King Diamond, Mercyful Fate, Accept, Angel Witch, etc... So I think I don't need too much gain even all those bands have distorted/overdriven guitars. I also play some 70's hard rock like Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Rainbow and some blues too.
The pickups should have good clarity, sound big and edgy, tight but not too tight, singing and screaming leads and have good dynamics. Good cleans would be plus too.
So guys tell me what pickups would suit my need best.
I hope my English is good enough that you can understand me. 8) Thanks!!!
If you want Vintage Hot, I think you're probably on the money with either the VHII or Black Dog. I'm not at all convinced the Vintage range would suit what you want but if you fancied the Mule, you should certainly look at an Abraxas, which is largely a Mule with a hotter wind so would suit your Rock stuff better and is also arguably more versatile than many of the others. However, based on your description, I'd go for a Holydiver in the bridge. It's voiced perfectly for that era of music, has excellent clarity, sounds big and is tight without being extreme. It will add a lot of body to a Strat. It's also one of the best lead pickups BKP do. The Holydiver really does tick a lot of your boxes.
I'm less sure about neck and middle positions because I have less experience of single coils but when I got mine, my first thought was Slowhands but Antag mentioned he'd paired Slowhands with a Holydiver and found them a bit underpowered, suggesting Trilogy Suites instead. I talked to Tim about Slowhands and he also said that Trilogy Suites were a better option so that's what I went for and I haven't regretted it. They're very versatile pickups and will suit your music perfectly.
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Ok now I'm fighting between VHII and Holy Diver. Can't decide which on. For single coils I go for Slow Hand because it has more mids.
I've got few new questions for single coils. Should I get vintage stagger or flat magnet profile? Quote from FAQ: "A vintage stagger handles the heavier 7 ¼" radius of a vintage fingerboard and works well right up to @ a 10" radius. Flat magnet profile gives better string to string balance on modern radius finger boards of 10" and flatter." American Standard Stratocaster has 9,5 radius, so maybe vintage stagger? Is there any difference in voicing? Second question is about baseplate. There is no talking about baseplate under neck pickup, but I would like to try it. What you guys think about it? Would it work? Usually it's used under bridge pickup, but in FAQ there says: "Whilst it is most common to fit one to the bridge coil only, the zinc plated steel baseplates work well on middle and neck coils too."
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IMO you should get the flat profile, much better string to string balance on the 9.5 radius.
I would not get a baseplate for the neck, plenty of bass there, you can control the bass voicing with the pickup height. BKP are very sensitive to height adjustment...very. :)
I personally would go for the Black Dog with the Slow Hand, they'll work good together EQ, voicing, and gain. If you did that combo, order the Black Dog open poled (no cover).
If you click the ordering page for HSS, you'll see all the sets BKP recommends, there are lots of them...I'd go with one of those sets.
All the above is my opinion from experience with the same guitar and woods you have...your results may differ, good luck and hope I've helped. :)
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Trilogy Suites have plenty mids and the Holydiver certainly does.
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I've got a Crawler in my bridge - good mids :)
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I agree, there are good mids in the Crawler and I've always liked the tone of it but I think the Holydiver is better suited to his style of music.
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I agree, there are good mids in the Crawler and I've always liked the tone of it but I think the Holydiver is better suited to his style of music.
+1. I completely agree ^
I was thinking and should have mentioned that in my last post, but he seemed so set on the Slow Hands.
Yes, the Holydiver fits his desires for the rock style and gain he'll need...it rolls off nicely, splits well, and the Trilogy Suites would be the preferred choice for the single coils.
The Trilogy Suite rolls off much nicer than most would think and the in-betweens are lovely, perfect set for him really. However and again, if he's set on the Slow Hands, I stand by my recommendation of the open poled Black Dog.
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I agree, there are good mids in the Crawler and I've always liked the tone of it but I think the Holydiver is better suited to his style of music.
+1. I completely agree ^
I was thinking and should have mentioned that in my last post, but he seemed so set on the Slow Hands.
Yes, the Holydiver fits his desires for the rock style and gain he'll need...it rolls off nicely, splits well, and the Trilogy Suites would be the preferred choice for the single coils.
The Trilogy Suite rolls off much nicer than most would think and the in-betweens are lovely, perfect set for him really. However and again, if he's set on the Slow Hands, I stand by my recommendation of the open poled Black Dog.
I'm worried about that Holy Divers and Trilogies might sound too modern to me. Those bands I mentioned in my first post doesn't have the most modern tones.
How would VHII work with Slow Hand? I have to listen some clips about Black Dog.
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I mainly play traditional Heavy Metal like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, King Diamond, Mercyful Fate, Accept, Angel Witch, etc...
They're not modern tones as we might understand them today but even though the Holydiver is in the contemporary section, it doesn't have a particularly modern voice either. It's a VERY flexible pickup and its primary home is these sort of sounds.
I also play some 70's hard rock like Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Rainbow and some blues too.
I'll grant you, this is more Vintage Hot territory but the Holydiver will cover this easily. I play Deep Purple, Rainbow, Free, AC/DC, Eagles, Animals, Eric Clapton, Gary Moore and plenty others beside in my band and I use the Holydiver for the lot and it does it brilliantly. For what it's worth, I also play Motorhead, Black Sabbath and Thin Lizzy with it too. Although Eric Clapton and Gary Moore is the only Blues we do, when I play at home, I almost exclusively play Blues and again, it's the Holydiver that does it.
The pickups should have good clarity, sound big and edgy, tight but not too tight, singing and screaming leads and have good dynamics. Good cleans would be plus too.
You just described a Holydiver/ Trilogy Suite HSS set :D
By all means look at the others and they may well work for you but the set you described is Holydiver/Trilogy Suite without a doubt.
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This ^
How modern or old school you want them to be...can and will be controlled by your amp &/or pedals if you use them.
I would not combine the Slow Hands with the VHII, their respective EQ curve will not let them work together as you switch between them on the fly...they are not EQ'd or designed to work as a set IMO.
Slartibartfarst42 has kindly laid it out for you, quit fighting it :) we're trying to save you a headache, time and money.
You got great opinions here, it's the best we can do from this perspective, good luck and enjoy.
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VHII and Slowhands is not the ideal combo, pick IT's in this case. For more bass and lowmids you can order baseplates.
I think the Diver does the mentioned styles quite well, but if you want to go more vintage(hot) a Abraxas/Slowhand-combo serves you well too. The Abraxas closes the gap between classic PAF and contempory rocktones. You can easily play Satriani-stuff with it and it does classic rock and hardrock in the best way. And this one beefs up your strat too.
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Ok thanks for everyone's recommendations. I'm still gonna ask one question. :lol: Which one would be better for me: VHII and Irish Tours or Black Dog and Slow Hands? What kind of lead tone Irish Tours and Slow Hands have? I know that VHII and Black Dog have enough output for me. I couldn't find so much clips someone playing Black Dogs, but much VHII. I loved that clip where Steve Stevens played VHII. So raw sound. That kind of tone I'm after. Can Black Dogs do that?
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Black Dogs have more centermids. I don't have experience with them. I don't know if they fit the bill in a strat. They are picked for LP's usually (Page, classic rock). Because your strat has a maple neck I thought Abraxas/Slowhands would be a nice beefy set for all kind of rock/light metal. Nevertheless, VHII and IT's would be a great combo. I love the VHII, it can scream really bad, has clarity, a balanced voicing, superb harmonics and touchsensitivity. The IT's are gritty and smokey and handle gain very well. I play lots of solo's with the neckpickup. They clean up good too. Maybe take 300k pots to balance the tonal spectrum. 500k could make the IT's a little too bright.
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I went back and re-read your original post that started this thread...please disregard my two earlier posts. :oops:
You want the Holydiver bridge and Trilogy Suite middle/neck HSS set, no doubt in my mind. :)
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I just bought a set of slowhands with a holydiver i the bridge for a maple neck strat, and here's what i have to say about it:
The slowhands are really bitey, very uppermiddy and cutting, no singlecoil 'sag' but a very immediate and responsive feel. Very nice cleans and good lead tone, very good pickups, but i was expecting they'd have a bit softer feel to them. Now, i have 500k pots since a bought a prewired kit from bkp, so that might explain it, but i'd say that if you buy a pair of slow hands dont expect to get mellow jazz pickups, but angry cutting rock pickups!
The holydiver has a nice throaty midrange and can handle heavy distortion really well. They are that kind of pickup that sounds good in any gain setting, but 'feels' the best with lots of distortion. A bit more compressed than i'm used to, but if you want to play heavy metal on a strat they are a very good choice.
The pickups arent the greatest combination, they have a very different sound and feel to them. I pick that combo because i wanted both a metal strat and a rock/blues strat, and decided to combine them in the same guitar, and i will probably never use them both on the same song. So to me thats the perfect combo, but if you want pickups that go well together, pick another setup. Trust the HSS suggestions! :D
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Trust the HSS suggestions! :D
+1000
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Trust the HSS suggestions! :D
+1000
Unfortunately there isn't a suggested HSS set for every humbucker!
Nothing for the Abraxas, for example. I went for Abraxas and Slow Hands... when I ordered from Tim he didn't make any comment as to whether that was a good combo or not, so I assume it'll be OK. :lol:
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Trust the HSS suggestions! :D
+1000
Unfortunately there isn't a suggested HSS set for every humbucker!
Nothing for the Abraxas, for example. I went for Abraxas and Slow Hands... when I ordered from Tim he didn't make any comment as to whether that was a good combo or not, so I assume it'll be OK. :lol:
Crawler/IT's are listed, so why wouldn't Abraxas/Slowhands work. Choices/combinations depend on the guitar (rosewood/maple board etc) and the styles you want to cover with them. There are no absolute rules.
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There are no absolute rules.
I completely agree with that. :)
My opinion on staying with a factory set is based on this being the OP's first BKP HSS. Equally as well I stand by my HD TS/TS suggestion based on the original post.
I would be interested to know Tim's recommendation if he read the OP's telling of an alder maple/maple Fender Strat and coping those bands/tones.
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Crawler/IT's are listed, so why wouldn't Abraxas/Slowhands work. Choices/combinations depend on the guitar (rosewood/maple board etc) and the styles you want to cover with them. There are no absolute rules.
I agree, absolutely.
But given the fact that BKP does offer "standard" HSS sets, it's interesting to see that - for example - the Crawler set has Mother's Milks and the VHII set has Irish Tours. You'd almost expect it to be the other way round, based solely on the relative output of the pickups (I'm not saying those choices are "wrong"!!! :P )
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I went back and re-read your original post that started this thread...please disregard my two earlier posts. :oops:
You want the Holydiver bridge and Trilogy Suite middle/neck HSS set, no doubt in my mind. :)
This has been said by you, me and others on this thread but for whatever reason I can't understand, the OP seems dead set against it. Neverthless, what he describes is undoubtedly still a Holydiver/Trilogy Suite set.
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I went back and re-read your original post that started this thread...please disregard my two earlier posts. :oops:
You want the Holydiver bridge and Trilogy Suite middle/neck HSS set, no doubt in my mind. :)
This has been said by you, me and others on this thread but for whatever reason I can't understand, the OP seems dead set against it. Neverthless, what he describes is undoubtedly still a Holydiver/Trilogy Suite set.
The reason why I'm not interested in Holy Diver and Trilogies is that I want lower output. I already have Nailbombs in my Gibson Explorer and that's for more extreme things. But anyway my decision is done finally. :lol: I'm gonna buy VHII and Irish Tours. In my opinion they are closest to what I want. I hope I'm not wrong. :lol:
Thanks for everyone's patience and help!!!
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Well I'm sure you'll like them a lot, though I would point out that the Holydiver is VERY different to a Nailbomb. I made my decision on new pups some time ago but sadly I can't act yet as I'm making some major changes to my rig first.
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Crawler/IT's are listed, so why wouldn't Abraxas/Slowhands work. Choices/combinations depend on the guitar (rosewood/maple board etc) and the styles you want to cover with them. There are no absolute rules.
I agree, absolutely.
But given the fact that BKP does offer "standard" HSS sets, it's interesting to see that - for example - the Crawler set has Mother's Milks and the VHII set has Irish Tours. You'd almost expect it to be the other way round, based solely on the relative output of the pickups (I'm not saying those choices are "wrong"!!! :P )
Ha! I've always wondered why it wasn't the other way around too Philly. :)
I've also given the Abraxas/Slowhands more thought, originally I figured the Abraxas would be too toppy with Slowhands...but! we're dealing with the ol' trick of pot resistance in combining singles with buckers, and from countless hours of doing this myself over the last 2 years with BKP HSS sets, it could be a sweet set indeed!
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I've also given the Abraxas/Slowhands more thought, originally I figured the Abraxas would be too toppy with Slowhands...but! we're dealing with the ol' trick of pot resistance in combining singles with buckers, and from countless hours of doing this myself over the last 2 years with BKP HSS sets, it could be a sweet set indeed!
I was thinking of mucking about with a combination of 250k and 500k pots, plus resistors..... but at Tim's suggestion, I actually went with three 300k pots - naturally, being me, the guitar's not put together yet so I don't know how it sounds. :lol:
I was more worried about compromising the sound of the single-coils than the humbucker, so I think the 300ks will probably be fine for me.
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I went back and re-read your original post that started this thread...please disregard my two earlier posts. :oops:
You want the Holydiver bridge and Trilogy Suite middle/neck HSS set, no doubt in my mind. :)
This has been said by you, me and others on this thread but for whatever reason I can't understand, the OP seems dead set against it. Neverthless, what he describes is undoubtedly still a Holydiver/Trilogy Suite set.
The reason why I'm not interested in Holy Diver and Trilogies is that I want lower output. I already have Nailbombs in my Gibson Explorer and that's for more extreme things. But anyway my decision is done finally. :lol: I'm gonna buy VHII and Irish Tours. In my opinion they are closest to what I want. I hope I'm not wrong. :lol:
Thanks for everyone's patience and help!!!
You could be good with you're VHII IT set. They are way too toppy in my alder maple/maple, but you might use heavier strings &/or have a darker sounding guitar than mine. It's possible you'll need to experiment with different pot values and maybe resistors too.
The Gibson Explorer all mahogany with rosewood fretboard is quite the different beast than a Fender alder maple/maple Strat...as is the Nailbomb and the Humbuckers talked about in this thread.
I've come to realize I never understood your quest for your Strat...your original detailed posting of the guitar you're outfitting and the bands you covered were screaming HD + TS in my experienced opinion.
Anything's possible with EQ, boosts, amps, speakers, etc...and we all hear differently too. Good luck with your new set, BKP's are world class and the best IMO. :)
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I've also given the Abraxas/Slowhands more thought, originally I figured the Abraxas would be too toppy with Slowhands...but! we're dealing with the ol' trick of pot resistance in combining singles with buckers, and from countless hours of doing this myself over the last 2 years with BKP HSS sets, it could be a sweet set indeed!
I was thinking of mucking about with a combination of 250k and 500k pots, plus resistors..... but at Tim's suggestion, I actually went with three 300k pots - naturally, being me, the guitar's not put together yet so I don't know how it sounds. :lol:
I was more worried about compromising the sound of the single-coils than the humbucker, so I think the 300ks will probably be fine for me.
Oh I think you're going to be Golden with all 300ks in that set. :D Good call by you and Tim.
And yes...I've to come notice over time the pace at which you build your sweeties. :lol:
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The VHII/IT's will work fine if you pick the right pots. I earlier recommended 300K pots. Oh, and btw, VHII and Mothers Milks work really nice together in a strat too, but I have a rosewood board. You will love your choice, the VHII is a wicked pickup! Really screams when pushed.
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Oh I think you're going to be Golden with all 300ks in that set. :D Good call by you and Tim.
And yes...I've to come notice over time the pace at which you build your sweeties. :lol:
Well, to be honest, my pace is.... no pace at all. :|
There are so many things I need to get done at home, guitar projects being just a fraction of them. I really need to take some holiday time.