Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Vintage Metal on May 01, 2012, 06:22:37 PM
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Hello to all in the forum!
My friend has recently got a set of Mules for his Les Paul, and I thoguht they were really good pickups. So I thought I'd give Bare Knuckle a shot.
I'm upgrading my EMGs in my Les Paul, and after searching through the forum I have come to the conclusion that the Miracle Man & Painkiller are usually the most recommended pickups to switch with EMGs, am I right? I'm a modern metal player by day, and I delve into other styles by night, so I thought I may look for a different kind of pickup as to an all out metal pickup. I was thinking of something that has sort-of vintage character and sounds organic, musical and expressive, but capable of handling a lot of gain without sounding like mushy peas. I would really like a combo that can provide rhythm, lead and clean sounds. Any clues on what I could use for this?
I also wanted to ask a question about cleaning up with the volume pot. Is it a good quality volume pot that makes a pickup clean up really nicely or just the pickup itself? I'd really like this feature, my EMGs just suck!
Thanks!
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Take a look at the new Blackhawks! Those were MADE for EMG replacements.
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Take a look at the new Blackhawks! Those were MADE for EMG replacements.
I had a look at them but I really don't like the design. I really wanted to keep gold covers if I'm honest. Plus I see the dc-rating is low, but I'm guessing it's quite high output? I'd also like to wait until other people have tried them so I can make a better educated decision and I may get them for my Jackson. Like I said, I'm not really after anything modern, just a pickup capable of playing modern metal.
I was thinking out of these for my Les Paul though --
Black Dog
Riff Raff
Emerald
Another which got me interested was the Nailbomb as BKP describes it as "a high output classically voiced pickup with a really organic tone." It kind of gives me the impression of the best of both worlds. This then leads me to wonder about the Rebel Yell as well as it's description is similar to the Nailbomb as you probably know?
It's a really tough decision. With the Nailbomb though, the clips I've looked up give me the impression it's a very dry pickup, which I'm not a fan of. I like my pickups to sound a bit wet if you know what I mean?
Thanks!
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Well I love my RY's can handle anything from Free-Metallica, but it's sweet spot is definitely somewhere like the Maiden or GNR type area. IMO
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I got a nailbomb in a LP clone and I don't find it dry at all. It's really aggressive and it took me some time getting used to, but it's very versatile and it's my experience that it can handle blues, rock, hard rock and metal.
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Well I love my RY's can handle anything from Free-Metallica, but it's sweet spot is definitely somewhere like the Maiden or GNR type area. IMO
I thought I'd also mention with my EMG 81/85 equipped Les Paul, I find the neck pickup on the lower strings very boomy, and I constantly find my treble on 10 when playing metal on the bridge (although I turn it to around 8 when wanting a fatter leadtone). I'm guessing I have a very dark LP? It's all mahogany with rosewood. Nothing else!
With the Rebel Yell, how expressive is it, and how modern does it sound? Also how fat is the mid range? I'm going to be playing many styles of metal on this guitar, but would like something which backs off for lighter styles also.
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How does the Rebel Yell compare to the Nailbomb also?
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I think the rebel yell is often described as an underwound nailbomb that has a little less mids and a little more highs. I'm not sure on this so someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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I think the rebel yell is often described as an underwound nailbomb that has a little less mids and a little more highs. I'm not sure on this so someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Looking at the chart, they seem identical minus the slightly lower bass on the Rebel Yell. I'm really interested how these compare to pickups such as the Emerald, Black Dog or RiffRaff.
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I can't deal in direct comparison seeing as the RY is the only set from BK Ive had. But I know the RR is like an underpowered RY, as it's said they can be played on the same settings on an amp. The RY is for someone who wants a clearer pickup, whose guitar is already naturally dark and muddy. Which I guess is what you have. In that case, yeah, I stand beind the RY in this case.
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I can't deal in direct comparison seeing as the RY is the only set from BK Ive had. But I know the RR is like an underpowered RY, as it's said they can be played on the same settings on an amp. The RY is for someone who wants a clearer pickup, whose guitar is already naturally dark and muddy. Which I guess is what you have. In that case, yeah, I stand beind the RY in this case.
What do you make of the neck pickup? Would the bridge be able to handle stuff like Trivium, Bullet, Killswitch Engage style of modern metal?
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You'll want the Holy Diver for great cleans, leads and rhythm tones that are capable of classic rock to 80s metal to modern metal.
The emerald/black dog/Riff Raff wont be able to do modern metal very well but the Holy Diver is practically a higher output version of the Black Dogs with a bit of Emerald mixed in.
For a great set that compliment each other you might want to take a look at the Emerald Neck/Holy Diver Bridge. The Emerald Neck is often described as the best neck pickup in the range because of it beautiful cleans, smooth yet angry leads and articulation and it compliments the Holy Diver Bridge really well. The Holy Diver Bridge is thick and aggressive but has great cleans and is great for coil splits too. They actually sound better than most single coils that i've heard.
The Diver isn't only a metal pickup though. It really excels at rock and 80s metal
That said, Rebel Yell are great too. They are basically a lower output nailbomb and a bit brighter. I wouldn't go for the nailbomb because people have complained about not being able to get it to leave the "90s metal" territory when using it in a Les Paul.
I'd go for either a Rebel Yell set or a Holy Diver set or an Emerald Neck and Holy Diver Bridge.
heres my review of the holy diver:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=27532.0
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the rebell yell has a ton of upper mids and less low mids, while the nailbomb has quite flat upper and center mids and lots of low end
both have a quite aggressive top end
it's like going from Ratt to Helmet or something, but both are quite versatile
depending on your amp and pedals, the riff raff might be a great option for anything, including metal
it sounds nothing like a rebel yell, though
it's actually closer to the nailbomb, but without the big low mids, and the midrange grain is much clearer and more open
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Oh yeah, the bridge can definitely handle that. The beauty of these is that unlike a lot of others, they really can do everything well, especially perfect if you're metal by day, other by night. The neck has some of the nicest cleans I've heard, but I'll warn you and say they are not perfectly clean. They do add a little touch of hair to the clean. That said, a RY/Emerald set could easily fix that problem. If you want woman tones or fluid leads from the neck, the RY is definitely good for that too, as is the Emerald. I'd say right now your best bet is either RY set, RY/Em, or maybe HD/Em. I'll put it this way, and this is just how I feel about it: On a scale from 1-10 in terms of gain and heaviness of tone, 1 being lowest and 10 being extreme gain, the comfort zone of the RY is probably like 2-8, and the HD around 4-10. I feel like it's just a matter of sacrificing a bit of heaviness for a bit better OD type gain, or vice versa.
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Wouldn't the Holy Diver sound exceptionally dark in my LP, seeing as it's already very dark?
Also what's more suited to metal, Upper Mids or Lower Mids?
How would you compare the Rebel Yell to the Emerald neck as well?
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If I'm honest, I just want our band/music to sound different to most other metal bands out there. I really want a sound where people will be like "how do I get that tone?". Something musically organic and expressive. I'm just sick of the traditional EMG and Peavey 6505 combo. It's been done to death!
I've also got a post before this one on page one, just incase you clicked straight to page two
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I would think so, but then again alot of people do put them in guitars like this for this kind of tone/
It matters what kind of "metal" you're talking about. Early metal stuff IMO wold actually be more upper mids, but anything mid-80s and beyond is probably lower-mids.
Like I said, I don't have any direct experience with this, but I feel like the RY neck is just a bit raunchier than the Emerald, both in cleans and dirty tones. RY adds a bit of hair and edginess to a clean, while the Em pretty much keeps it clean, and when overdriven, it's pretty much the same deal. It just matters if you want that extra little something that the RY has or not.
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If I'm honest, I just want our band/music to sound different to mot other metal bands out there. I really want a sound where people will be like "how do I get that tone?". Something musically organic and expressive. I'm just sick of the traditional EMG and Peavey 6505 combo. It's been done to death!
If you feel that way, then no doubt go for the RY's. They have a mor organic feel to them that screams hard rock, while still being metal. I think it's a cool little variation.
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I would think so, but then again alot of people do put them in guitars like this for this kind of tone/
It matters what kind of "metal" you're talking about. Early metal stuff IMO wold actually be more upper mids, but anything mid-80s and beyond is probably lower-mids.
Like I said, I don't have any direct experience with this, but I feel like the RY neck is just a bit raunchier than the Emerald, both in cleans and dirty tones. RY adds a bit of hair and edginess to a clean, while the Em pretty much keeps it clean, and when overdriven, it's pretty much the same deal. It just matters if you want that extra little something that the RY has or not.
I mostly play post-80s. I just really want a pickup to play modern metal that sounds like it has a life, as to just bland. But like I said, I delve into all other types of metal which are more musically demanding. Think power metal that involves a lot of lead work. The reason I wanted something that wasn't totally geared to metal was so I could play slow ballads with feeling, really working the volume pot. With most modern pickups I've played, I seem to feel the sound is getting carried away with itself and I can't keep the power of it under control.
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Well, if it were up to me, RY all the way. No doubt.
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Well, if it were up to me, RY all the way. No doubt.
I'll try that then. I'm just a bit scared that it wil sound too modern as I originally set out after a vintage type pickup that can play metal. I guess sometimes things work out the way you didn't expect.
Now it's just deciding the neck pickup. If anyone can give me a good comparison between the neck RY and Emerald, that would help a lot!
Thanks!
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Wouldn't the Holy Diver sound exceptionally dark in my LP, seeing as it's already very dark?
Also what's more suited to metal, Upper Mids or Lower Mids?
How would you compare the Rebel Yell to the Emerald neck as well?
Read the review. Holy divers are not dark at all! It is just a myth that was probably started when someone put them in a guitar with 250k pots. As longs as you have 500k pots it'll easily be bright enough. I'm actually thanking tim as if he were god right now that he recommended holy divers to me cos if I got the Rebel Yell then they CERTAINLY would've been too bright in my les paul with 550k/500k pots. Not that they're bad pickups at all. They just wouldn't have suited my particular needs and my guitar very well.
Rebel Yells are much more modern sounding than the Holy Diver or Emerald and a bit tighter. They'll work really nicely for 80's metal but 80 metal is really where Holy Divers are most at home.
Is your amp bright or dsark sounding though. I don't really have much experience with 6505s.
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I'm not trying to create any rifts or arguements, just giving my opinions. In the end, what we say doesn't mean a thing! It'll come down to your gut feeling. What's your gut feeling?
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I would say go with the RYs.
The previous descriptions given are very good and acurate.
Concerning the modern / vintage thing the RY is in my view a modern take on vintage qualitys. There is a nice vintage throwback in the voicing which is combined with qualitys from modern PUs. I think it really is what you want.
Can sound modern or vintage depending on your playing, amp, amp setting, pedals, etc. Really versatile.
Also it is height sensitive as shitee so you can actually just dial in the tone you want with the height.
My short review of it remains: IT ROCKS!!!!111eleven
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I wouldn't attribute the term 'vintage' to a rebel yell by any means
it's a quite bright 80's hard rock tone
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Well when I say vintage, I don't mean a true vintage sound. Just more af a vintagesque kind of quality. I'll give the Rebel Yell a go in that case.
What would you say for neck then? Calibrated set or Emerald neck? I love shredding on my neck, but I also like to play a lot of my cleans so I would need something that isn't boomy on the low strings and cuts nicely in the highs. I'm not really fussed about glassy and pristine singlecoil cleans. Just a clean that has a sort of sparkle to it. You've got too remember I'm upgrading the neck from an EMG 85, so I will probably be blown away either way.
With my amp, I'm selling the 6505 and I'm going to get something a lot more unique to give myself my own tone. But this will probably be a later thread if you think this would be a good place for suggestions?
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Oh and thanks to all the responses. Made my day PDT_001
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Aren't EMG's supposed to have good cleans? Anyways, I do think the RY set is more for your liking.
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Aren't EMG's supposed to have good cleans? Anyways, I do think the RY set is more for your liking.
I think the 60 is meant to havt decent cleans. The 85 is ok, whereas the 81 isn't really. It's the built in pre-amp and EQ that push your amp, so you always get that hint of dirtiness in your cleans. Kind of annoying really, but I guess the purpose was to push your amp for metal.
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I wouldn't attribute the term 'vintage' to a rebel yell by any means
it's a quite bright 80's hard rock tone
Oh well yes in a way you are right, but at my age 80s sounds are at the beginning of the vintage realm since they ended before I was born.^^
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Wouldn't the Holy Diver sound exceptionally dark in my LP, seeing as it's already very dark?
Also what's more suited to metal, Upper Mids or Lower Mids?
Being too dark a bit of a danger with the Holy Diver, Nailbomb and Black Dog.
All mids are good. Upper mids are more aggressive and cut the mix better, lower mids are fatter and make the sound fuller.
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And I'd say that also describes early metal stuff(Maiden, Priest, etc) compared to later( pick any band) lol
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I swapped out my 81/85 I had today for the Het set EMG's and damn they are nice. I'm hoping that more actives go down this path. I was going to put the 81/85 into another guitar but might go with BKP to have something different myself.
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I like the look of that set, and of course I love Jaymz lol. Those would be great, but I feel like they're too run of the mill, and that they can only do a few things great, not a lot.
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I've actually had a good chat with Ben at BKP and ended up deciding on the Emerald set. He was very kind and had a chat to me about it and it seemed that was the best choice overall, with the Blackdogs coming in a close second. I may need to try then out if I decide on a new LP. Would love to hear peoples views on these two calibrated sets. Really excited at the moment :)
And thanks for everyones help. I will definitely get round to trying the RYs at some point too. SBKP seems a great pickup brand to start building your arsenal with.
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Congrats! Let us know some results.
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Congrats! Let us know some results.
I definitely will. Just waiting for my Tax Rebate to come through then I'll be on the phone to order them.
Btw, am I best ordering them direct from BKP, or would I be good to get them through a dealer, as I can get them cheaper that way?
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That's dependent on a few things...Where are you located? What covers do you want?
I'm in the US, so I would have ordered from a dealer, but I got one covered/one uncovered, so I had to order directly through them. Enlighten us with your situation.
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That's dependent on a few things...Where are you located? What covers do you want?
I'm in the US, so I would have ordered from a dealer, but I got one covered/one uncovered, so I had to order directly through them. Enlighten us with your situation.
I'm from the UK, so it would be pretty straight forward thankfully, lolz.
I will definitely have to try the RY and BD sometime over the next year as they really seem something I want. But the Emeralds seemed to fit exactly what I was wanting at the current time :D
I hear you get chance to trade if it's not your thing, am I right in saying this? If so that would help a lot.
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'tis true