Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Mr. Air on May 01, 2012, 06:46:03 PM

Title: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Mr. Air on May 01, 2012, 06:46:03 PM
I'm no metal player, but I like to fool around with some metal-like riffing, but I haven't really got a guitar that suits the need. Well I might have, but I'm not willing to detune it and slap on thicker gauge strings. So I was pondering what kind of guitar type would best for me. Here's my thoughts

7 string: Pros - Versatile as you don't need to down tune it. Cons - I wider fretboard that probably takes a goos amount of time getting used to.

Baritone: Pros - Only 6 strings and built for low tunings so no intonation problems. Cons - A bit limited as it can only handle low tunings.

Standard down tuned guitar: Pros - Only 6 strings and if I get tired of low tunings it's possible to go back to normal tuning. Cons - Chance of intonation problems.

A fourth sollution could be getting my hands on a drop tune pedal and let that handle my problems.

So what's your advice?  :D
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Toe-Knee on May 01, 2012, 07:00:05 PM
Something like the ibanez RGD is what i would go for.

its just below baritone at 26.5" so you can use standard tunings without immense tension.

I currently use it in Eb rather than D that it comes in as standard. Also i prefer it for the higher tunings over my 25.5" guitars too. It has a nice snap to the sound.
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: JDC on May 01, 2012, 07:08:03 PM
How low do you actually want to go?
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Twinfan on May 01, 2012, 07:16:24 PM
^ this.  It'll mahe a big difference in what will suit you best!
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Mr. Air on May 01, 2012, 07:21:20 PM
How low do you actually want to go?

I actually might not want to go that low. I think the lowest will be B (but I'll probably stay go with C and C# most of the time) and as far as I know 24,75 scale lenght guitars can manage this. Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Toe-Knee on May 01, 2012, 07:22:53 PM
How low do you actually want to go?

I actually might not want to go that low. I think the lowest will be B (but I'll probably stay go with C and C# most of the time) and as far as I know 24,75 scale lenght guitars can manage this. Or am I wrong?

I wouldnt advise it. It is doable but not optimal. At the minimum id use a 25.5 for that.

The RGD that i mentioned has a native tuning of D standard/Drop C so i reckon that will be optimal for you.

I think there are a few schecters with 26.5" scales too
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Mr. Air on May 01, 2012, 07:31:21 PM
How low do you actually want to go?

I actually might not want to go that low. I think the lowest will be B (but I'll probably stay go with C and C# most of the time) and as far as I know 24,75 scale lenght guitars can manage this. Or am I wrong?

I wouldnt advise it. It is doable but not optimal. At the minimum id use a 25.5 for that.

The RGD that i mentioned has a native tuning of D standard/Drop C so i reckon that will be optimal for you.

I think there are a few schecters with 26.5" scales too

Thing is I'm not to keen on the Ibby design or pointy guitars in usual  :?

Doesn't In Flames use Gibsons in very low tunings?
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Toe-Knee on May 01, 2012, 07:34:05 PM
How low do you actually want to go?

I actually might not want to go that low. I think the lowest will be B (but I'll probably stay go with C and C# most of the time) and as far as I know 24,75 scale lenght guitars can manage this. Or am I wrong?

I wouldnt advise it. It is doable but not optimal. At the minimum id use a 25.5 for that.

The RGD that i mentioned has a native tuning of D standard/Drop C so i reckon that will be optimal for you.

I think there are a few schecters with 26.5" scales too

Thing is I'm not to keen on the Ibby design or pointy guitars in usual  :?

Doesn't In Flames use Gibsons in very low tunings?

Ahh i can see where that would lead to problems :D

They do but i imagine they also use incredibly thick strings.

with a 26.5" scale you can get a good tension with 10s in D/C

Do you have a particular budget in mind? If you are doing it cheaply vintage may offer something suitable at a good price.
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: richardjmorgan on May 02, 2012, 12:36:45 AM
How low do you actually want to go?

I actually might not want to go that low. I think the lowest will be B (but I'll probably stay go with C and C# most of the time) and as far as I know 24,75 scale lenght guitars can manage this. Or am I wrong?

I wouldnt advise it. It is doable but not optimal. At the minimum id use a 25.5 for that.

The RGD that i mentioned has a native tuning of D standard/Drop C so i reckon that will be optimal for you.

I think there are a few schecters with 26.5" scales too

Thing is I'm not to keen on the Ibby design or pointy guitars in usual  :?

Doesn't In Flames use Gibsons in very low tunings?
I'm rather of the view that if 56s on a Les Paul are good enough for Bill Steer to use on Heartwork, they're theoretically fine for anyone, and the only reason not to do it comes down to personal preference.

I use 12-56s on my Gibson V in my band where I'm tuned down to C# (sometimes drop B) and, since a setup from Jonathan at Feline, it's been absolutely fine for me (seem to remember he had to flip one of the saddles on the bridge round to get it to intonate ok, but that's no biggie as far as I'm concerned). That said, I do like a bit of give in my strings, so if you're used to much higher tension, I can see how it may feel a bit flappy.
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Loomer on May 02, 2012, 08:06:32 AM
I'd go 7-string if I were you.
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Madsakre on May 02, 2012, 08:34:37 AM
if you have more than one guitar, then go baritone. They sound alot better in low tunings
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Loomer on May 02, 2012, 08:43:33 AM
Or have your cake and eat it too, by getting a baritone 7-string :lol:
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Madsakre on May 02, 2012, 09:10:02 AM
(http://www.schecterguitars.com/Products/Telerik.Web.UI.WebResource.axd?imgid=637e4cd4c14840b7942fea43e6d07945&type=rbi)

<3


http://www.schecterguitars.com/Products/Guitar/Blackjack-SLS-C-7.aspx
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: oncesolemn on May 02, 2012, 11:44:18 AM
I use a Gibson Les Paul with Elixir 12-68s, tuned to B.  No issues with intonation or action, and provides good tension especially on the lower strings.  Hooking a Holydiver up with that lot sounds immense! 8)
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Mr. Air on May 02, 2012, 11:59:51 AM
(http://www.schecterguitars.com/Products/Telerik.Web.UI.WebResource.axd?imgid=637e4cd4c14840b7942fea43e6d07945&type=rbi)

<3


http://www.schecterguitars.com/Products/Guitar/Blackjack-SLS-C-7.aspx

That Schecter looks quite cool. As for 7 strings I had my eyes on an Agile Intrepid in blue that have just been removed form the website.
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: JDC on May 02, 2012, 01:06:19 PM
String gauge/tension is going to make a difference in relation to the scale length too, ie on the lowest string, longer scale lets you use a thinner string while keeping the tension so you maintain the clarity while a shorter scale will need a thicker string so there will be more beef.

Longer scale will also make the higher strings harder to bend ie more tension so it will feel closer to bending 10s instead of 9s (google string tension calculator if you want to get nerdy about it ;) )

If you want to play in C/C# I don't see the point of uptuning a 7, if you want the 7 you need to ask yourself if you will really use the upper strings

I have an agile intrepid 8 (28.6"), don't know what your preference is for necks but for widdley shredding like there is no tomorrow I personally think it's 2mm too thick and the body needs more contouring for my picking hand, wish it had a locking nut to make bending slightly easier
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Sifu Ben on May 02, 2012, 04:43:49 PM
I've got an SG in C# with a 10-52 set, not a problem, and I've got a 27" 7 string (Agile) in B standard and it doesn't really require much adjustment.
Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Alex on May 03, 2012, 11:55:12 PM
It is a lot a matter of taste and feel. 7-string or baritone are really different animals. I love the fact that the 6-string baritone I have is not as cramped and has a naturally wide neck, but other playes might prefer 7-string normal scale guitars.

However, some comments to other posters:
I agree with SifuBen that 27" isn't such a huge difference, although it is noticeable and tends to require a bit cleaner and more precise fretting.

I think .56 on a LesPaul might have worked for Bill Steer in Carcass, as Richard pointed out, but IMO the sound on Heartwork is oversaturated and lacks definition, as well a result from the Colin Richardson "wall of sound"-production. Bjoern from In Flames uses a .62 for B flat, but I think his guitar is EQ'd a lot to sound relatively dry and not overly bassy. Each to their own, I'd say. I think it was Kerry King who once said that it depends on the guitar sometimes, some just hold tuning and intonation a lot better even with thinner strings. That might be very true sometimes.



Title: Re: What to choose for metal and lower tuned stuff
Post by: Lucifuge on May 06, 2012, 05:42:08 PM
Tony Iommi is known for down tuning on an SG with light gauge strings, so it can definitely be done.