Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: LiveWire on May 08, 2012, 10:49:55 PM
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Hi folks, I'm new here. Just got tipped to enter this forum, found some good info, though I'm still trying to figure something out which I hope you guys can help me with.
With my band I play thrash metal so I need a fair amount of overdrive. No problem you'd say, but I got myself in a tight situation here since I use a plexi clone and want to plug straight into the amp, no pedals, no active pickups.
Currently I'm using a Dimarzio X2N and that works extremely well. Only trouble is, the guitar I have has much more to offer acoustically then the pickup picks up, and I hope a BKP can do that.
From what I managed to find out the Aftermath/Painkiller/Warpig are the ones with the highest output. But how would they be ranked output-wise, and can anyone confirm if they deliver as much output as the X2N?
Thanks!
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the x2n is hotter than any BKP
tonewise, the painkiller is probably the closest model, but it's not oversaturated like the x2n
hard to picture a non-hotrodded plexi doing thrash metal without any kind of booster, though
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Hi folks, I'm new here. Just got tipped to enter this forum, found some good info, though I'm still trying to figure something out which I hope you guys can help me with.
With my band I play thrash metal so I need a fair amount of overdrive. No problem you'd say, but I got myself in a tight situation here since I use a plexi clone and want to plug straight into the amp, no pedals, no active pickups.
Currently I'm using a Dimarzio X2N and that works extremely well. Only trouble is, the guitar I have has much more to offer acoustically then the pickup picks up, and I hope a BKP can do that.
From what I managed to find out the Aftermath/Painkiller/Warpig are the ones with the highest output. But how would they be ranked output-wise, and can anyone confirm if they deliver as much output as the X2N?
Thanks!
Hey dude! I play in the Thrash Metal band DARK ORDER. I Can help!!!. What type of guitar is that you play??? Is is bolt on? Neck Thru? Set neck? Woods??? Tremolo or hardtail bridge??? Pitch you tune to and whats yor favourite guitarists sound????.
I can already tell you that the Aftermath is not a pick up for straight into the amp Thrash Metal. It will be either three BKP pickups... the Ceramic Nailbomb, the PainKiller or Ceramic Warpig.
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I think no pickup will match the X2N - it's supposed to be one of the hottest pickups out there; the only ones I could think of that might reach that silly output (yes, silly IMO) could be the Seymour Duncan Blackouts.
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I would either go for a painkiller OR my new found love. The EMG Het set. Best distorted tone i've ever heard.
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@ Eric & Alex: Thanks, that seems clear. It's true I'm limiting myself here with a need of so much output. The thing is, I love playing straight into the amp and would hate it if I had to depend on a pedal. Have thought of building one into the guitar, but that's the same story then.
Attached a sound sample so you can hear the overdrive-level, this was with my old G12T-75 speakers though, did a major upgrade a while ago. Also, I have two X2Ns of which one delivers more output then the other, this is with the waeker one.
@ Dark Order: I'll definitely check out your band (if you have stuff online). Nice to have another thrash head gear hound around. That guitar is a Jackson Pro (basswood body, quartersawn bolt-on maple neck with ebony fretboard and Floyd, tuned in E). Like a clear/bright lead tone. I'm leaning toward the Painkiller (so thanks for confirming that Madsakre) but the Warpig seems more dangerous..
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The Painkiller is way more aggressive than the warpig. The warpigs are big and fluffy. The painkiller is more like a pitbull
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I think the Painkiller would be best, but I need to say, there are many GREAT mods you can do to that amp that would help a lot in getting your tone. I would recommend looking into a few of those to get your tone somewhere special.
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And like I've said before elsewhere on the forum, your favorite guitar tones are more likely than not driven by low-output pickups and very high gain amps. The tone you're imagining in your head might be something very different with just a pickup and a Plexi amp.
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@ Dark Order: I'll definitely check out your band (if you have stuff online). Nice to have another thrash head gear hound around. That guitar is a Jackson Pro (basswood body, quartersawn bolt-on maple neck with ebony fretboard and Floyd, tuned in E). Like a clear/bright lead tone. I'm leaning toward the Painkiller (so thanks for confirming that Madsakre) but the Warpig seems more dangerous..
For a guitar like yours, the Painkiller is Way way to bright and middy. I strongly suggest either a Ceramic Warpig OR a Alnico Nailbomb. You need good mids for Thrash, and in a strat type guitar like yours, with basswood and ebony frettboard, where bass wood is NOT a warm sounding wood, nor it is great with low mids, the Ceramic Warpig with slam the front end of your amp for that palm muted chunck, and or the Alnico Nailbomb has this real cool 'SD SH4 JB ala Anthrax palm muted chunk + mibs' just minus the fuzz of the JB
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I think the Painkiller would be best, but I need to say, there are many GREAT mods you can do to that amp that would help a lot in getting your tone. I would recommend looking into a few of those to get your tone somewhere special.
I modded it quite a bit, NOS parts and tried a range of different resistors and caps on relevant spots, dropped the voltage on the tubes. There's not a problem with the tone I'm getting. It's just that the pickup doesn't reveal everything the guitar has to offer.
@ Dark Order: I have several basswood bodied guitars, and this one actually has a pretty strong bass. The staccato palm mutes are the first to go when you're not reaching enough overdrive so that's a good thing to concentrate on. Fistful Of Metal is one of my all time favourites, and next month they're coming to town 8) The palm mutes on that album are aggressive, very sharp and bright, excellent. Though the overall guitar sound is pretty flat and not something to strive after.
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did you wire the gain stages in series (cascading)?
the miracle man is known for working pretty well in basswood and maple
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Hadn't heard about that yet, thanks for the heads up, I'm looking into it. There's a lot of ways to do a cascade I see, this will take some studying.
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I can already tell you that the Aftermath is not a pick up for straight into the amp Thrash Metal. It will be either three BKP pickups... the Ceramic Nailbomb, the PainKiller or Ceramic Warpig.
.....huh?
I find this confusing. The AM is just as capable of thrash right into an amp as those other 3. As is the MM and cold sweat. Even the crawler, in fact. And others, by reputation and from clips I've heard but I should just keep my comments to pickups I know, really.
Livewire: you should probably get a miracle man. You wont get quite as sharp an output drop as with the PK, AM or CS which should make the move from the X2N a bit easier, and its very responsive to different guitars for such a hot pickup.
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For a guitar like yours, the Painkiller is Way way to bright and middy..... where bass wood is NOT a warm sounding wood, nor it is great with low mids...
I disagree with this quote. I have found Basswood to be warm, and definitely not lacking in Mids. I also disagree that the Painkiller would be too bright for the wood composition in question.
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/BodyWoodOptions.aspx (http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/BodyWoodOptions.aspx)
The Painkiller is excellent for thrash in my opinion. The Aftermath can do it as well. The Painkiller is going to have more bite though.
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For a guitar like yours, the Painkiller is Way way to bright and middy..... where bass wood is NOT a warm sounding wood, nor it is great with low mids...
I disagree with this quote. I have found Basswood to be warm, and definitely not lacking in Mids. I also disagree that the Painkiller would be too bright for the wood composition in question.
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/BodyWoodOptions.aspx (http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/BodyWoodOptions.aspx)
The Painkiller is excellent for thrash in my opinion. The Aftermath can do it as well. The Painkiller is going to have more bite though.
I disagree with your quote. Basswood is a balanced wood so it's not that warm, it has a bit of everything (less bass than the others). It's sometimes called a flat sounding wood and for me it takes and reflects the characteristic of the pickups. Therefore the result from using a Painkiller on a Basswood body could make it sound too bright.
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I may be mistaken, but my statement is from my experience. I've never owned one, but have played a handful. :good:
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i got a RGD with a painkiller. i dont think it sounds too bright..
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Holy cr@p! That cascade is outrageous! Thanks again Eric, we've created a monster. Can't believe how much overdrive it added, still toying around with surrounding caps and resistors to get the tone right but this one stays for good. Finally the doors are open to the whole range of pickups.
Anyone tried the Aftermath and Painkiller? How would you describe the difference?
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Holy cr@p! That cascade is outrageous! Thanks again Eric, we've created a monster. Can't believe how much overdrive it added,
That is because the gains of cascaded stage do not add, they multiply so that the last stage in the preamp is easily overdriven. And yes, you would not need as much gain from the pickup itself.
Cheers Stephan
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the x2n didn't sound too bad i thought, though it is a little 2d maybe.
this is a job for ceramic. miracle man or painkiller i would have thought. painkiller has a strong attack, which may or may not be for you.
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Newbie here and somewhat confused...I write/play power metal with a progressive edge. But as for guitar sound I prefer a heavy almost doom metal sound with the grit and bite of thrash/death metal. I intended on installing a BK Warpig into the bridge position of a Schecter Omen 6 and from what I'm reading here I should use the Aftermath or Painkiller instead...Is this correct? I really liked the sound of the ceramic Warpig, but,I'm open to listening so that I get it right. \m/ :?:
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the ceramic warpig would suit your needs Bundydude
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Thanks Madsakre, much appreciated...Here's a question I posed to BK. I was told that since I use a solid state amp that I would not notice a difference in sound quality. So I guess what they're saying is that unless I use a tube amp, the use of a BK Warpig is pointless. Has anyone heard this before? Is there any truth to this? I'd hate to purchase the Warpig and not be able to hear a relatively large sound difference. \m/ :?:
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A question of curiosity...As previously mentioned, I write/play power metal (the US version, i.e. Nevermore/Flotsam & Jetsam/Metal Church//Iced Earth/etc...Not the Euro symphonic style) with a touch of progressive metal and some thrash and doom metal leanings. That being said and again as previously mentioned, I want to install a BK Warpig (Bridge) and a DiMarzio LiquiFire DP227 (Neck) into a Schecter Omen 6. I'm wondering if anyone knows how those two pickups compare to say the EMG's 81 & 85 or the Seymore Duncan Dimebucker or any of the Seymore Duncan Blackout models, or maybe someone knows of a different brand/style of pickups that might work. \m/ :?:
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that's an unboosted alnico warpig in a les paul custom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYM-W3vYOUE
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Holy cr@p! That cascade is outrageous! Thanks again Eric, we've created a monster. Can't believe how much overdrive it added, still toying around with surrounding caps and resistors to get the tone right but this one stays for good. Finally the doors are open to the whole range of pickups.
Anyone tried the Aftermath and Painkiller? How would you describe the difference?
how's it wired?
3 stages in series and the cathode follower like a JCM? what are the cathode and plate resistors and caps values?
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Thanks Madsakre, much appreciated...Here's a question I posed to BK. I was told that since I use a solid state amp that I would not notice a difference in sound quality. So I guess what they're saying is that unless I use a tube amp, the use of a BK Warpig is pointless. Has anyone heard this before? Is there any truth to this? I'd hate to purchase the Warpig and not be able to hear a relatively large sound difference. \m/ :?:
this is utter bullshitee. Typical rantings from a blues lawyer.
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how's it wired?
3 stages in series and the cathode follower like a JCM? what are the cathode and plate resistors and caps values?
Took me some time to fine tune the thing. Did the one wire "Randy Rhoads" mod so that would be three stages right? Kept the plate resistors stock value. Played around a lot with the cathode caps and resistors, ended up with 220uf/470ohm on v1a and .1uf/10k on v1b. That took care of the excess basses aquired through the cascade and kept the amp clear and focused.
However, this weekend I installed the Painkiller and had a test round. Also changed everything back to stock as a reference and ended up ditching the cascade. Had to admit it took away too much tone and articulate dynamics. The output level of the Painkiller is pretty impressive though, little less than the L500XL and X2N but still capable of thrashing like hell on a stock plexi :P Will make a recording this weekend and post it.
The Painkiller is pretty punchy in the high mids though, a little too punchy for such a bright amp. Am strongly considering to move to a Holydiver. Any ideas on that?
Edit: but first, John Fogerty live tonight in Amsterdam!!
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I was told that since I use a solid state amp that I would not notice a difference in sound quality. So I guess what they're saying is that unless I use a tube amp, the use of a BK Warpig is pointless. Has anyone heard this before?
This would be only true if by "solid state amp" they meant "cheap solid state practice amp". There are plenty of good solid state amps which would let you hear a difference between various pickups.
Cheers Stephan
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Removed a bypass cap brom the amp and that took away a great deal over excess brightness, much better balance now. Here's a clip, guitar straight into the amp again. Forum software woudn't allow me upload the full clip (3MB) for some reason.