Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: Andrew W on May 19, 2012, 06:52:01 AM
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I was on the Black Sabbath website last night:
http://www.blacksabbath.com/
Do you feel like there's someone missing from all those photos? I'm getting a nasty "Diary of a Madman" feeling abut this...
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It's really, really sad.
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It's really, really sad.
Agreed.
Likewise no non-Ozzy era Sabbath albums in the Discography.
The history page at least mentions Ward, but glosses over non-Ozzy stuff. Also mentioned that Ozzy quit and went on to enjoy much success as a solo artist. Errr they fired him! Oh and BS went on to have a line up change and enjoy some success with a couple of albums. It's like watching an American war film.
I smell management/Sharon. Shame on them.
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It's like watching an American war film.
But.. but.. but an exaggerated sense of accomplishment tied into a love story with music to let you know when shite's about to go down or it's time to feel sad is all we know!
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That is DISGUSTING! :x
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It's getting quite childish now. Insulting too. Do they really expect Sabbath fans to forget or ignore an original founding member just because they couldn't agree on a contract? They really must not have a lot of respect for the people who bought their music and made them millionaires.
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I don't know who is to blame for all the bull that seems to orbit around Black Sabbath. I am guessing Sharon but wouldn't want to go throwing accusations around, but whoever it is, they are such a petty, childish little dick of a person and need to grow the hell up.
I have lost so much respect for Ozzy, and I didn't really have much for Sharon to begin with anyway. Talk about growing old disgracefully.
I wonder if Tony is going to stand for all this pap considering all the nonsense he was put through at the hands of Ozzy's "management". I'd love to see Tony and Geezer boycott the "Sabbath Brand" and stage a proper walk-out.
What a way to insult the fans.
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Disgraceful treatment of Ian Gillan.
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Do you feel like there's someone missing from all those photos? I'm getting a nasty "Diary of a Madman" feeling abut this...
That is a $%&#ing disgrace. :evil:
You can even see Bill's arm in some of those photos, like "oh, there was some other bloke there, but he's not important enough to even edit out properly".
Several of Black Sabbath’s post-Osbourne albums - especially Heaven and Hell (1980), Mob Rules (1981) and Headless Cross (1989) - are highly regarded by hardcore fans. But when all was said and done, the classic lineup could not be bested.
The last sentence is, of course, a matter of opinion, but the "hardcore fans" bit sounds almost contemptuous. Personally I think nearly all the post-Ozzy albums are better than the last couple he sang on (not saying that was all Ozzy's fault, the band were clearly in a slump).
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It's her. She's the daughter of a bully boy front wheeler so it runs in the family. She pursues her interests with lies and aggression. She only saw pound notes when she married him anyway. Everyone knows how much of a money grabbing tart she is. Best just ignore it, she can't hide the truth
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Black Sabbath/Bill Ward Photo Statement
"At the request of Bill Ward, through his attorney, so as to not give the public the wrong impression about his involvement in the current Black Sabbath lineup, we have temporarily removed Bill Ward's images from the main pages of the blacksabbath.com official website. In accordance with Bill Ward's attorney's request, we are doing so for the duration of the forthcoming shows."
Apparently.
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Hmmm... And a quote from Geezers site.
I feel sad to see the Sabbath reunion becoming a bit of a soap opera on the internet. It has been a very tough year for us as a band, having announced our reunion plans, only for Tony to be diagnosed with lymphoma, leaving us no choice but to postpone the proposed Sabbath tour, and then for Bill to go public on his site about an un-signable contract. None of us knew how Tony was going to respond to his intensive chemo therapy, and radiotherapy. Ozzy and myself flew to England to be with Tony, and on his “good” days, we’d meet at his home studio and put ideas together for the upcoming album, all sitting down together, no drummer involved, just 3 of us quietly putting together ideas. We thought that when we had enough songs together for a full band rehearsal, we’d move back to L.A and put the whole thing together with Bill. Unfortunately, to our surprise, Bill issued a statement on his site saying he’d been offered an un-signable contract. He hadn’t told any one of us he was having contractual problems, and frankly those things are worked out between our representatives, and never between the four of us let alone in public. We had the idea of keeping just one show in this year, hoping that Tony would be well enough for that show, and that things with Bill would be sorted. As you may expect, a one off show at Donnington Festival (Download) costs an absolute fortune to stage, involving over 50 people, transport, air fares, hotels, meals, agents, promotors, accountants, lawyers etc, so none of us, expected to make much money from it- it was a one off Sabbath show for the fans, before we go into recording the new album. Apparently, this wasn’t acceptable to Bill’s representatives, they wanted an amount that was so unrealistic that it seemed to have been a joke. So we resigned ourselves to doing Download without Bill, hoping he’d change his mind and at least make a guest appearance. We started rehearsals a few weeks ago with Tommy Cluefetos, the drummer who will be on the Ozzy and Friends Tour. Brilliant drummer and good bloke. It was decided we’d better do a warm up show, to break the ice since we haven’t played together live. The O2 Academy was available in Birmingham, where we were rehearsing, so we decided on that, and to make a donation to Help For Heroes Charity, since we’d be ironing out any glitches we may have. Then Bill put out a further statement saying he’d been ready to play the Birmingham show , but he was expected to have to do it “for free”- well, I think that’s basically how you raise money from gigs for charity – you play them “for free”.
All I am saying is that there are two sides to everything. I do hope to play with Bill again some day. For whatever reason; it wasn’t meant to be this time. Bill’s made his decision, and I have to respect that. Hopefully this painful year will be worth the wait for the new Sabbath album and end in joy and happiness for all.
Stay frosty,
Geezer
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I think Geezer's version of events does perhaps get us closer to the truth.
No doubt Sharon is trying to take control and get everything the way she wants it, I don't like the way she seems to conduct business. On the other hand, I do get the impression Bill has flown off the handle about the contracts thing and said "that's it, I'm out" without really discussing it properly to try to resolve it.
It seems to me that most deals in showbiz (be that music, movies, even sport) are conducted at too great a distance, through agents, lawyers and middlemen, when in fact the best way to sort it out would just be for the principals to just sit down and talk it out themselves.
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All very interesting. I started reading this thread, one or two posts. I thought "probably folks getting worked up over nothing..."
So I went over to the site and saw all the pics. I was flabbergasted - every single pic cropped. I even showed Mrs R. I did wonder whether they might actually have been cropped at the request of Ward or his representatives, and then Mrs R spotted the May 19th statement.
So, although I was getting ready to go "bluddy hell, you're right guys...", I'm back in the position I was. Especially reading the Geezer statement quoted above.
It's six of one and half a dozen of the other. It sounds a bit like when SRV was chucked off the Let's Dance Tour just as it was about to start. Nobody really seems to know what happened, but it appears SRV was gutted his kit was being taken off the bus/trucks, Bowie was gutted when he heard his guitarist didn't want to play. From the little I looked into it, it sounds like SRV's rep was trying to push for more money (just before the key was turned in the ignition on the bus) than Bowie's business lot thought he was worth.
It's all a bit sad, but it does sound to me that Mr Ward, at the very least, is at least half responsible for the outcome that various parties are now having to market in a vaguely "acceptable" light.
EDIT: Philly posted while I was writing mine - yep, that's the feeling I've got.
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I wonder if it has more to do with Wards health issues - maybe he's scared that he can't actually cope with the shows, and wanted to blame someone?
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Andy R - without bothering to check it out on t'internet I remember reading an interview with SRV where he said the original deal for the Let's Dance tour was that Double Trouble would be the support act. At the last moment Mr B's management changed their minds so he quit the tour.
As far as the Sabbath situation, years ago I played in a 4 piece pub band with a singer who had an ego the size of the known cosmos. We always split our meagre earnings 4 ways until the singer announced one day that, as the star of the show (in his mind at least), he would henceforth be paid half the money and the other three of us could split the other half between us. Without having to resort to extensive legal proceedings we came to a decision that the drummer (big, ugly git) would kick him around the pub car park for 10 minutes (long overdue) after which we found another singer.
Sadly, in a band like Sabbath such decisions are more complex and, as Geezer says, are negotiated by their representatives with no input from the band members themselves. I don't see this situation as being all down to the loathsome Sharon although, going on her past form, it is not unreasonable to automatically cast her as the bad guy. Eventually the brand becomes bigger than the band.
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Yeah (SRV story) that's the original story I'd heard. But then a while back I heard the other story, not sure where. I seem to have a memory of watching some program that had the story, with bits of interviews with David Bowie and the surviving members of Double Trouble that seemed to support it. The Double Trouble guys didn't seem to know a lot about it - they had known about the possibility of supporting Bowie, but it hadn't really been a serious option and SRV was going off and doing the tour. And then suddenly he wasn't. David Bowie's input was along the lines of - it's a long time ago, not sure exactly what happened, it was real shame, pity I hadn't been available to talk things through when it all kicked off - I just heard "you havent haven't got a guitarist he's walked out", and I blamed him for years... turns out it might have been a misunderstanding due to his management wanting more money because he was starting to get famous in his own right, wish I'd known it wasn't SRV himself, we could have sorted it out, instead we just chucked him off the tour...
Who knows though? History gets rewritten all the time :lol:
Like you say, the brand gets bigger than the people involved - everyone has to tell the story to make the "brand", whatever bit of it they're involved in, remain as sellable as possible. Or at least that's what they think they're doing anyway! :lol:
Sounds to me like that's what's going on here.
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I wonder if it has more to do with Wards health issues - maybe he's scared that he can't actually cope with the shows, and wanted to blame someone?
Anyone know exactly what his health issues are? They seem to have led him to bail out a number of times, going right back to the early days with Dio.
Whenever I've seen interviews with Bill Ward he seems like a lovely gentle sort of chap, but perhaps he's just a bit flaky - maybe the rock'n'roll lifestyle doesn't really suit him any more.
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Well, that certainly throws a new light on it all.
...I stand by my opinions on Sharon / Management, though.
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maybe the airbrushing is nothing untoward.. could just be they did it so that people aren't disappointed when hes not playing at the gigs having not heard all the drama?
it looks bad, but could be good intentioned. anyone knowing sabbath knows bill's contribution, its quite different to the randy rhoads albums in that respect.
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The history page at least mentions Ward, however glosses over non-Ozzy stuff. Also mentioned that Ozzy stop and additionally went on to enjoy a lot success because a solo singer. Errr they fired him! Oh and BS went on to have a line up change and also enjoy a couple achievements by way of a few of records. It's like watching a particular American war movie.
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