Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: ZymoticPlague on May 30, 2012, 11:25:32 AM
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Well, I should start off by requesting no replies that completely negate the information provided within my post. PLEASE, don't suggest a "remedy" after I've clearly explained that it has already been tried, tried again and still did not solve the issue. Not to be crass, but I've talked myself blue in the face and typed my fingers ragged trying to remedy this and don't want to be going in perpetual circles forever with this with anyone.
This is the issue: I have a custom made single pickup guitar. Glued-in neck thru. Rock maple neck with an ebony fretboard set into a myrtle body with a burled maple top. 7 string floating tremolo with a Tremel-No. 36 frets, hence only one pickup. I ordered the alnico bridge Nailbomb 7 covered because Tim recommended it as the best fit for having a lot of variety in one pickup, as I would need it because I would be playing distorted/ clean & rhythm/ lead with the one pickup and trying to cover a lot of territory tonally and by genre, etc. A multi-purpose guitar, this is.
Now, the pickup sounds just fine clean, both full hum and coil tapped. Just rolling the tone knob off and on between tapped and hb is like toggling between pickup combos with a single coil and humbucked guitar. Sounds great. Distorted is an entirely different story though.
I cannot seem to rid of a buzzing/humming sound that I get with gain and I don't use an obscene amount of gain neither. EVEN if I switch between a multi fx module like a Korg Pandora (and using full noisegate) through a little practice amp, or running Amplitube Metal in Nuendo3 (obsolescent, I know!) going through a Digidesign MBox2 (using noisegate. *Also, this is the worst sounding of the 3 setups I use and there's no amp in this equation), or simple analog pedals through an old school tube amp (Boss NS-2 Noise Suppressor can't even get rid of the noise), I have the same problem more or less. I've tried different outlets in different rooms in the house. I tried different guitar cables in different orders with the 3 different setups. I have 2 other guitars, one with slightly hot passive HSS set and another with 2 active EMG. Neither have ANY noise problems whatsoever through all 3 aforementioned "rigs" that were tested.
I had the luthier that made the guitar AND installed the pickup check it out at least 3 times now. Everything comes back clear as far as there not being an issue with the grounding, as there is a test tone to confirm continuity EVERYWHERE including the pickup cover, etc etc etc. The solder joints all checked out, as the wiring, for he has installed a BK in many a guitar, and all without fault to any degree like this, save one pickup which he ultimately DID have to send back (a Black Dog) for being faulty, which is where I think this may just have to go towards as well.
I also bought a multimeter and tested at home just so I knew what to look at/for and also had checked at a well known guitar shop here for continuity, proper wiring, etc. Checks out fine.
Its metal components DO cancel out A PARTICULAR noise, (though not the droning, monotonous noise I have been speaking of) of which sounds like that of a grounding issue and is apparent when NOT touching the strings or metal components, but I have been told is just sometimes apparently inherent of hotter passive pickups(?)
The hum/buzz I originally spoke of, though, is present regardless. In fact, it actually sounds like a guitar cable unplugged from the guitar and on the floor, but LOUDER and more pronounced when plugged in. As mentioned, even with noise gates/suppressors in use, it is heard WHEN playing or sustaining notes.
Now...since this is NOT, I repeat, NOT a ground issue as should it be apparent thus far...nor any of the other problems I incorrectly diagnosed myself so far, what could it possibly be besides a faulty pickup?!?
OHHHH...and I should mention that the sound is literally 2x louder and worse sounding when coil tapped.
Oh yeah...and the volume knob makes scratching noises when rolled off and on, BUT...BUT only when the strings are not being touched. It is NOT the volume pot, which has been replaced 2x just in case and plenty of contact cleaner and compressed air has been blown in the current one to fix the problem IF that was the problem. The major red flag here being that it ONLY scratches when NOT touching the strings and rolling the volume up and down, which means goodbye volume swells and slow fade outs without having am/fm radio station changing sounds in the mix.
:' (
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Did you have the guitar made with the Nailbombs in, or did you have something like active pickups in it before hand?
I know you said you didn't ask for a remedy, but I really have to ask this, and if I'm right, it will take a matter of minutes to sort out and won't cost you a thing besides your time:
One thing to do is to check that the bridge (trem or hardtail) is grounded as this is a very common problem with the problems you seem to have. Most people who have this problem are players who have switch from active to passive pickups and have forgotten to ground their bridge. If you didn't have active, it's still worth having a look.
Like I said, sorry to advise a remedy since you said you've checked grounding, but bridge grounding is a very common overlooked aspect of grounding. In fact many people wouldn't even think twice about it. Sorry to hear about the problem though, it's a very annoying pain :(
If everything is fine though, message BKP and explain the problem, I'm sure they'll be happy to tae a look at the pickup and offer to fix/replace it.
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And you're saying none of this happens when you're running the same guitar through a clean set-up? Hmmm... I'm at a loss then (and my gut feeling is it's not the grounded bridge thing that Vintage Metal asks about - although I think it's right to consider/recheck it)
I'd recommend emailing this little lot straight to BKP and ask what they think - they'll want to make you happy.
Hope you get it sorted soon.
Welcome to the forum, btw :D
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If you're handy with a soldering iron or know someone who is, maybe you should do a quick swap and try the Nailbomb in one of your other guitars. If the problem persists with a different guitar, then it's probably the pickup.
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One thing to do is to check that the bridge (trem or hardtail) is grounded as this is a very common problem with the problems you seem to have.
that might be it- the tremol-no is grounded by a screw, not soldered, and it tends to come out.
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One thing to do is to check that the bridge (trem or hardtail) is grounded as this is a very common problem with the problems you seem to have.
that might be it- the tremol-no is grounded by a screw, not soldered, and it tends to come out.
Don't you solder it to the back of one of your pots though? I've got a small wire coming out of the side of the back cavity in my Les Paul, which is soldered to the back of my neck vol pot. Well I'm pretty sure this is my bridges ground wire haha.
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thanks to all you have replied so far! I really do value any input i can get; i was just overtly frustrated and must have expressed that well! :lol:
to answer the 1st reply: yes, I did have a *****y sounding 707 in there. The pots, jack, etc were replaced to meet the right resistance and there was a hole drilled (pained to see!) from the cavity and to the meet at the bridge, where the Tremel-no secures the ground wire with an allen wrench fitted screw (i figure thats the only purpose that screw could possibly serve) and the other end soldered to the volume pot.
I have contacted BK and have terrorized Mr. Mills quite enough now I think! Between the guru himself, the luthier of my guitar and even 3rd party opinion, no one has come up with a solution that hasn't been tested that would probably solve this. I figured it was time to branch out!
the vol. scratching issue has duped too due to the contradiction of how it does it, being the atypical way that most would encounter. Help!!!
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Oh yeah...and the volume knob makes scratching noises when rolled off and on, BUT...BUT only when the strings are not being touched. It is NOT the volume pot, which has been replaced 2x just in case and plenty of contact cleaner and compressed air has been blown in the current one to fix the problem IF that was the problem. The major red flag here being that it ONLY scratches when NOT touching the strings and rolling the volume up and down, which means goodbye volume swells and slow fade outs without having am/fm radio station changing sounds in the mix.
:' (
This sounds very odd. Is the volume knob metal or plastic?
I think Troy's suggestion of trying the Nailbomb in another guitar (and/or another passive pickup in this guitar) is a good one, although it is a pain in the arse doing pickup swaps.
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Just a couple things that came to my mind:
1/ there's much with ground issues more than just proper ground wiring on the guitar itself - "correct" grounding is about as common as nessie, be sure that whatever you do and however good you are, you WILL have ground issues.
2/ the "scratchy pot" syndrom (once you rule out defective pots) is most often seen in tube amps, and usually comes from DC leaking thru a faulty cap.
It obviously won't help much, but I thought I'd share this anyway, just in case it could help one way or another. Else, well, just what PillyQ said : swap your NB with the bucker in your HSS guitar (and no Phil, it's not a PITA, just plain boring).
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This may sound weird. But what strings do you have on the guitar?
I have found that some strings are non conductive/not as conductive as they should be.
Also the tremelno grounding point is useless. I had my ground attached there and still got some buzz althought not as bad as you are describing. I replaced the wire and attached it directly to the bridge and it instantly cured it.
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real quick: i can't put the NB in another guitar because it is for a 7 string guitar and i only have the one 7 string! it wouldn't fit even if i wanted it to, and i'd hate to thrash either one of these guitars here and have the pickup all hanging out or whatever to see if it does this or that. i think maybe it is the way it is attached to the tremol-no. i guess i can see about soldering it to the bridge.
as for the vol. knob, it is chrome finish metal. unfortunately, it's probably not my MusicanMan (amp) because it does it when i play through my computer (and actually is the worst sounding through my computer TBH).
if it is a ground issue with the tremol-no, wouldn't it not produce the test tone?
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real quick: i can't put the NB in another guitar because it is for a 7 string guitar and i only have the one 7 string! it wouldn't fit even if i wanted it to, and i'd hate to thrash either one of these guitars here and have the pickup all hanging out or whatever to see if it does this or that. i think maybe it is the way it is attached to the tremol-no. i guess i can see about soldering it to the bridge.
as for the vol. knob, it is chrome finish metal. unfortunately, it's probably not my MusicanMan (amp) because it does it when i play through my computer (and actually is the worst sounding through my computer TBH).
if it is a ground issue with the tremol-no, wouldn't it not produce the test tone?
By test tone i presume you mean the continuity beep? It did on mine but the ground wasnt the best connection. It was far better after i moved it. But also my issues weren't half as severe as yours sound
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sorry, yes the continuity sound from the multimeter. I think that might just be it. as for the volume knob...not sure. seems to do it for me more so than in the hands of others. possibly some weird charge my body puts off... :x
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The reason I asked the question about the volume knob being metal or plastic - you said the volume knob makes scratching noises when rolled off and on, but only when the strings aren't being touched.
So when you are touching the strings, there's effective grounding and touching the volume knob makes no difference. When you're not touching the strings, there's noise when you touch a metal part - the volume knob. That must be some kind of grounding issue.
I don't know what's wrong here, but I think it is grounding, one way or another. And I doubt it's the pickup that's at fault.
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another little anomaly: after resecuring the ground wire to the tremol-no, i noticed there are scratchy noises (like with the volume) when a metal item like an allen wrench is even just lightly rubbed across any metal. is there a grey area with proper grounding? ugh! this sucks! i can't WAIT to get this over with! Sincere thanks to all that have replied so far!
I hope I don't have this issue with the Holy Diver that I had ordered right after this one! doh! :roll:
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I'm no expert in unusual l scale instruments but is it possble that the neck scale length for 36 frets is just generating allot of noise that gain is amplifing ? seems to be beyond what a guitar pick up is designed for.I would expect that kind of range to need active pick ups , but again I have no real knowledege .but am intrested in the answer
I'd never heard of a 36 fret guitar so just googled it. damn. thats allot of frets and 7 strings at that .
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I'm no expert in unusual l scale instruments but is it possble that the neck scale length for 36 frets is just generating allot of noise that gain is amplifing ?
Simple answer : no. or more exactly: no acoustical / mechanical problem - whatever the string / neck scale length - would cause such issue.
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Are the pickup and control cavities properly screened?
I use a Nickel screening paint that works very well on the guitars I make
If you were local to me I would say bring it over and let me troubleshoot it for you.
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I am going to suggest something moderately insane.
Remove the pickup, wire it directly to a jack, plug that jack into an amp set for distortion. You will have removed all major variables to the pickup to determine if the pickup is the culprit.
If pickup direct to jack makes the noise with gain, there is your culprit. If not, you can safely say the pickup is not the culprit.
Myself, I would check over all bridge components to make sure you are grounding right. A broken ground can be any number of things. I have seen a bridge wire even, properly connected at both ends and since the insulation was fine looking, you'd have never known the wire inside was broken.
I might even replace the bridge ground wire on principle and make sure everything was soldered dead right, no cold joints.
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I'm still interested that the original post seems to imply that this noise is NOT present on a clean amp.
I know that gain increases the effect of buzzes and hums, but I would still expect to be able hear them through a clean amp. I would not expect to be able to say the following if I had an electrics issue of some sort in the guitar itself:
"Now, the pickup sounds just fine clean, both full hum and coil tapped. Just rolling the tone knob off and on between tapped and hb is like toggling between pickup combos with a single coil and humbucked guitar. Sounds great."
The other thing I'm wondering is how the pickup has been hooked up. Now, I haven't had a humbucker with 4 wires for multiple configurations for many years, so I'm no expert, but I do remember that you get strange effects if you don't get the hook-ups quite right (especially if it's a covered pickup? can't remember). Anyway, I read a lot on here that the BKP colour scheme for wiring is different than some big manufacturers use - is it possible the tech is not aware of this? (I doubt it, if he's already used BKPs)
I don't know though, I'm just chucking out the questions I'd have in my head if the problem was mine.
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the one thing missing in this whole equation, though, is the bridge cavity is NOT painted with conductive shielding paint. i'm gonna see if i can slather a bit o' that on and see what happens!
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the one thing missing in this whole equation, though, is the bridge cavity is NOT painted with conductive shielding paint. i'm gonna see if i can slather a bit o' that on and see what happens!
Make sure you connect it to ground, though, or it won't do anything!
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It sounds to more like something is broken, a cable, soldering joint, or a pot.
A) Touch parts with your fingers and see if the hum goes away while touching them (you act as an additional ground)
B) Cut the pickup cable off a little bit (just .5 cm) and resolder it.
C) Hook the pickup up straight to the output jack (no toggle switches/pots) and see it the problem stays the same.
I had problems like this before. Basically, if it sounds wrong to your ears there is something wrong with the wiring. It's as easy as that, don't trust the way it "looks", trust your "ears". I had to replace some parts on one of my guitar and on another I simply rewired everything new and then it worked. Don't ask me what was really wrong in that case.
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OHHHH...and I should mention that the sound is literally 2x louder and worse sounding when coil tapped.
This comment has me confused a bit. By "sound" do you mean the noise or is the signal level lower in full humbucking mode than in single coil mode? And if so, is this also the case when the amp is set clean?
Sorry to hear that you have such trouble with the guitar and pickup.
Cheers Stephan
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Definitely sounds like a grounding issue to me.
another little anomaly: after resecuring the ground wire to the tremol-no, i noticed there are scratchy noises (like with the volume) when a metal item like an allen wrench is even just lightly rubbed across any metal.
Has your tech somehow got the metal parts of your guitar connected to the pickup "hot"? That would explain the scratching coming through the amp, and the volume pot, like if you do it on the pickup slugs/screws of a correctly working guitar. I'd check for wires that are touching in places that they shouldn't, such as the pickup leads and the tone capacitor legs.
Other than that, the direct-to-output-jack test is always a good one to eliminate pickup issues :D