Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Fusionista on June 01, 2012, 01:15:23 PM
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Looking for a guitar for jazz (which I may already own). Basically I want a 'piano' tone, not too woody, but more bell-like.
The state of play is that I have tried a lot of big archtops: ES175, D'Aspiranta, Peerless boxes, and finding them too bulky - just can't get on with the size and stiffness, especially the carved tops (this from a bloke who reckons Les Pauls are too small:-) and often the tone with the big jazzers is too 'dull'.
The guitars I know for sure I get on with are thinline. Got a 335 (maple body/maple block/mahogany neck/rosewood fingerboard) which is the purfick blues/rock machine - and it would probably do jazz too, but I don't want to ruin a good axe. Also have a Washburn HB35 (maple body/maple block/maple neck/rosewood fingerboard) which is like the Yamaha SA series: much brighter than the 335, surprisingly so - I am not sure this guitar will do 'wood', but it might with the right pup and it certainly has the musicality. Finally I have an ES137, which is like the 335 except mahogany block/maple neck - again it will do almost anything, so shame almost to make it specialist. Toying therefore with picking up an Epi Casino or a Peerless Songbird (full hollowbody maple/mahogany neck/rosewood board) but I have NO IDEA if they might cover the ground better than one with a centre block. Another potential candidate is the Schechter Corsair (which fascinatingly has a mahogany neck/mahogany block and ebony board!)
As to pickups I am thinking Half Note or Manhattan. The question is: am I even barking up the right tree by thinking P90 - for 'piano' wouldn't I be better off with humbuckers anyway ?
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On the timber side of things, would Mahogany sound a bit too dark for that bell-like tone? I'm wondering if there's anything around constructed of Korina which might give a closer quality to the sound you're after? Mind you that Ebony board might go some way to pulling it back towards the brighter end.
But, to quote your good self, I'm not sure if I'm also even barking up the right tree with this, heh.
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Far as I can tell from Youtube the Corsair is very bright - that surprises me. But you just cannot tell from videos, you need to do it yourself or ask someone who has been there 8)
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I assume your playing with flat wounds or half rounds already?
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I have an Ibanez GB10 which I use with the Tomastik George Benson flat wound set, and it gets a great tone. It has mini-humbuckers, which quite a few of the pure jazz boxes use (pickups not mounted to the body).
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Yes, I have tried both Thomastik (12's) and Gibson Flats (11's) the latter on the recommendation of Chris Standring. Of the two I preferred the lighter gauge - but that's because I usually use 10's and have a serious vibrato habit. Also briefly owned a GB10 which didn't sit comfortably for me. Sold it to a jazz musician for far less than it was worth (and he still didn't pay me!-) Looked unsuccessfully for a GB20 - has anyone ever seen one ?
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Also briefly owned a GB10 which didn't sit comfortably for me. Sold it to a jazz musician for far less than it was worth (and he still didn't pay me!-)
He didn't pay you?! :o
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You know the old joke: "What's the difference between a jazz guitarist and a loaf of bread ?" "A loaf of bread can feed a family" :?
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Maybe the Reverend Pete Anderson hollowbody signature could be something. It's aimed at country/roots-rock, but with the right pickups it might give you that bell-like tone without too much woodiness.
http://www.reverendguitars.com/reverend/guitars/signature_series/pete_anderson_signature.html
Here's a clip of the guitar doing some jazz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUa0jJnFUsw
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Great playing. Guitar looks and sounds sweet. Bigsby tailpiece - hmmm. Neck pickup, but still coming on a bit stringy on the top E 'n B and not quite chimey enough on the bottom notes - for me that is. Maybe slightly higher-gauge strings and - dare I say? - a touch of chorus might do it ?-) Keep 'em coming.
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This looks very interesting, but not sure about £800... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200768113352?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648#ht_739wt_1398
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I don't know the price on these, but maybe Godins 5th Avenue series has something you like.
http://www.godinguitars.com/godin5thaveseriesp.htm
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Godin are a good name plus you have a good choice of fittings, inc P90. Interesting 'wild cherry' top and body. Like to hear from someone who has/tried one. T
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I have a non-electric, non-cutaway 5th Avenue.
I didn't get it for jazz, but I was looking for an archtop acoustic to complement my flat-top dreadnought type. It copes with dead strings pretty well (like it has at the moment!) but with new strings I find it's it's an absolute joy to play. Very responsive to attack.
I picked mine out of a batch of five of them. It wasn't the prettiest (I have the satin black one) but it had the best tone for me - woody and rounded but still with a nice top-end and body. Some of the others sounded a bit thin to my ears when I was playing them, but not to the listener (I got the shop assistant to play them as well). One of the things I noticed was that this one seems to have a wooden bridge saddle - which I've confirmed since - the others had a plastic one which seemed to be the actual spec at the time... but who knows? :lol:
Anyway, I was intrigued/concerned about the wild cherry as well - but it seems to do a very nice job for me. It's my "go to" acoustic. It loves fingers or plectrum, can go percussive or bell-like with either. With double-stopping I can get very "piano-like" acoustic tones.
Unfortunately I had/have no desire to hear them amplified - so I've no idea how they compete in that area, nor what the pickups are like, so I can't be that much help. One thing I do remember reading was that the cuttaway versions apparently sound slightly boxy in relation to the non-cutaway if you're using them unamplified. This worked for me, I didn't want a cutaway, but I imagine it must affect the amplified tone as well.
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Some of the others sounded a bit thin to my ears when I was playing them, but not to the listener (I got the shop assistant to play them as well). One of the things I noticed was that this one seems to have a wooden bridge saddle - which I've confirmed since - the others had a plastic one which seemed to be the actual spec at the time... but who knows? :lol:
One thing I do remember reading was that the cuttaway versions apparently sound slightly boxy in relation to the non-cutaway if you're using them unamplified. This worked for me, I didn't want a cutaway, but I imagine it must affect the amplified tone as well.
Very perceptive comments. Guitars can sound very different when you are are playing them than when you are listening to another playing, unamplified. There is too IMHO often a difference between cutaway and non-cutaway guitars - attributable to the design rather than the individual guitar - which few ever seem to discuss: exemplified by the Les Paul where the double cutaway is quite different from the single-cut. And it's not always or necessarily compensatable through amplification/effects. The worst implication of what you're saying is that buying unplayed is a lottery - unfortunately needs must :|
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Yep, ideally, I think it's a try before you buy guitar (mind you, they ALL are to me! :lol:).
I've just realised, I've got recordings online where you can hear various things my 5th Avenue has done. I've just listened to them to pick out the ones that I think illustrate what it could do. This has done a couple of things for me - it's reminded me that I LOVE this guitar (I must go and restring it immediately and make some music :lol:), and it sounds to me like sticking a P90 on this guitar and playing it through the right sort of amp could indeed give piano tones (and it's got bog-standard medium round-wounds on it).
Anyway, these are the examples where the 5th Avenue was used exclusively. Usually recorded with a large condensor, most without a plectrum. The 5th Avenue also appears on some of the other tracks (follow the link in my sig for the whole lot), but is buried amongst other instruments - eg on "A Hundred and Twenty Pound" it is the only acoustic, but I should have used the flat-top instead, I couldn't use the acoustic track as much as I'd originally intended, and I realise now that's what's "wrong" with it :lol:.
http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/now-that-youre-sleeping (http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/now-that-youre-sleeping) - this one is just the 5th Avenue and vocals. You need to be aware that there are voices doing a bass part from around the second verse or so - otherwise all the instrumentation is 5th Ave. There's, er, quite a few of them in places! This one, on its own, probably illustrates most of the range of tones I can get out of it.
http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/sleep-instead-of-teardrops-cover (http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/sleep-instead-of-teardrops-cover) - 5th Ave, bass and a single vocal. Some of the guitar overdubs are the closest I get to jazz at the moment.
http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/sleeping-with-the-ghost (http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/sleeping-with-the-ghost) - this is 5th Ave, bass, and a lot of vox. The first serious use I made of the guitar, I'd had it a week or so by then. I bought it for playing stuff like this.
http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/the-knife (http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/the-knife) - again, 5th Ave, bass, and a single vocal. Sounds to me like there could be a very thin plectrum being used on the strummed rhythm parts, the rest is fingers.
http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/oh-darling-cover (http://alonetone.com/andyr/tracks/oh-darling-cover) - I include this one because it's the only one without overdubs. It was recorded "live" with just one mic to capture both the guitar and vocal. It sounds like I had my usual "electric" pick in my had - 80mm Nylon. To me it illustrates how it can do the job of a flat-top for me, but still has this quality in the low notes that I can't get from the flat-top (and the mic on this was placed to capture optimium vocal rather than guitar).
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I just had to take a brief break from my loooong sabbatical from the forum ( so I could actually practice / study the instrument ) - to try and chip in here.
I would say Manhattans with Thomastik Be-Bop 12 gauge roundwound strings ; or ( if you like heavier bass strings relative to the top strings ) the Newtone Archtops. I have used the 'Be-Bops' for your desired sound in the past - as they are more 'zingy and bouncy' than the ( also excellent ) Newtone strings. The Newtone 'Archtop ' strings will become relatively mellow after a few weeks, but the Be-bops stay sparkling yet warm.
The Manhattans give you advantage of the very open sounding Alnico 3 magnets - and of course being a single coil.
I currently use BKP Alinico II Stormy Mondays in my ' Practice till you drop ' guitar ( an Ibanez AF75 ) - and the Manhattans have done a similar job of transforming a 'Vintage' VS 575. That stays in the box for when I'm good enough to be seen in public again, as it is wonderfully large . I would stay with a thinline fully hollow guitar, as I really can hear the absence of a centre block.
Whilst Stormies are a sure bet , I still feel that the Manhattans are the BKP 'Secret weapon' for chord melody . I use the Stormies the most for practice and study, as they are the ones that sit in the guitar that is easier to pick up and leave around the house.
Cheers !
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Nice to hear from you again - seems like ages! Hope things are going well for you!
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Nice to hear from you again - seems like ages! Hope things are going well for you!
Thank you Ian ! :)
Things are a bit 'variable' - but my resolve ( and pleasure ) in studying the guitar stays constant, when I can muster the concentration. The 'Sabbatical' being a genuine and ongoing wish to actually play / study , instead of writing about what I intend to play / study.
I hope things are plump and warm for you too Ian. :D
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Thanks Guys. Andy - top tone ! And FF it looks as if I will have to persevere with the fat flatwounds, and virtually inevitable I will be buying some Manhattans to drop into a thinline hollowbody - with a mahogany neck. (Anybody see where I am going here ?-)
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Thanks Guys. Andy - top tone ! And FF it looks as if I will have to persevere with the fat flatwounds, and virtually inevitable I will be buying some Manhattans to drop into a thinline hollowbody - with a mahogany neck. (Anybody see where I am going here ?-)
Do try the Thomastik 'Be-Bop' round wounds - and ( especially for the price ) a set of Newtone Archtops ( also round wound on a round core ). The marked difference feel wise, is that I like Thomastik's relatively light yet sonically balanced sets, which make a set of Thomastik 12s feel like a set of Newtone 11s.
I only use tapewound, for a 'zero finger noise' effect. Don't wake up the listener ! :lol:
As you will know, the Thomastiks are very supple, but if you tend to grip a touch harder than I do, the Newtone 'Archtop' strings are a high quality item.
Let us know what eventually lit your fire ! :)
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Sorry I meant big jazzy roundwounds (didn't even know they existed !). As soon as the deal is in the bag and the guitar is in my hands I will post a pic with first impressions. But readers feel free to keep posting your views, it's all good.
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Hey, Derek's back! :D
(Sorry, totally unhelpful post)
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15,000 + posts and still going as strong as ever :D
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Still talking rubbish, you mean? :lol:
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Yo Derek!
I immediately thought of you the minute this thread started - I nearly posted "try searching for posts by Fourth Feline, maybe he's even watching and might join in"
Good to hear you're ok :D
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I just thought to add that with fully hollow 'Jazzers' the thinner coated guitars are said to be more "piano like' -and indeed when I rubbed down my AF75 to speed up the neck - and give a satin finish to the body - I genuinely heard a difference. I gather Eastman guitars are brighter and more resonant, although ( sadly ) not from personal experience.
To facilitate the easier use of 12 gauge strings e.t.c , remember to stick with something that has a set back 'Lyre' tailpiece' - as that voodoo seems to make every gauge feel lighter than on my solid bodied guitars.
The scale length ( If you don't mind a bit more tension on the strings ) is often cited as a tonal factor, ( I.E. that the 24.75" scale is not as bright as the 25.5" scale, the 25.5" scale length being the 'weapon' of choice with the 'heavy rhythym hitters' of the big band era.
I would add to that, the idea that a Maple neck might be usually thought to contribute a brighter sound than the mahogany neck , but of course there are so many other variables in the mix. Consequently, on my budget Jazzers, the Mahogany necked guitar is actually a touch brighter than the maple necked one
So as to not make the string type / gauge something that becomes just hard work on the fretting hand , Thomastik do go down to 11s in the 'Be-bop' strings - and of course 10s in the tapewound 'Swing ' series. I think you might like the Gibson 'L5' series strings too, as I tried a packet of their 10s - and found them to be good and 'Jazzy' bright on a solid body, albeit not as lush as the Thomastik or Newtone offerings.
All of the above are probably stating the obvious for the original poster - and the majority of readers, but I wanted to throw them into the mix of the conversation for sake of thoroughness - and the casual visitor.
( * Slight thread hi-jack * )
Thank you to PhillyQ and Andy R for adding to Ian's warm welcome, much appreciated . :)
Cheers !
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I would add to that, the idea that a Maple neck might be usually thought to contribute a brighter sound than the mahogany neck , but of course there are so many other variables in the mix. Consequently, on my budget Jazzers, the Mahogany necked guitar is actually a touch brighter than the maple necked one...
All of the above are probably stating the obvious for the original poster - and the majority of readers, but I wanted to throw them into the mix of the conversation for sake of thoroughness - and the casual visitor...( * Slight thread hi-jack * )
Very pleased as a relative newbie to make your acquaintance too :-) And please don't consider your contribution as 'stating the obvious'. It is counterintuitive that a mahogany neck might result in a brighter tone but of course that is is perfectly within the range of possibilities for individual guitars - even in the same model range. I had 2 ES-137s which were utterly different, one much heavier and brighter than the other (denser maple block I would surmise). With hindsight, probably should have kept that one and dedicated it to jazz, but that was then, and having two similar guitars seemed de trop when there was so much else to discover (and pay for).
As it is I do not think my next experiment will be a final destination by any means. But I am determined to get that 'sound in my head' which for the sake of defining it is: 'piano with more feel' (than most pianists seem to achieve).
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.. Just one last point :
I have found that a fully hollow guitar with the wooden bridge removed - and a light(ish) complete Gibson type 'Tune-o'matic' bridge assembly mounted into the top of the archtop, gives me better sustain and note seperation.
As an example, if I use an open string as a pedal tone for a voicing , the tune-o-matic bridge keeps it ringing a little longer, without the rest of the sound going all 'solid bodied' on me. I first tried it as an experiment on one of my archtops, as in my part of the U.K. there is a great low price ( cheap and cheerful ) guitar spares mail order company , from whom I could afford to order a couple, one with a narrow set of mounting posts - and another with the wider fitting. I realised that even if the experiment did not work , I could still sit the floating wooden bridge over the relatively small holes.
I did try a tune-o-matic top on the existing wooden base, but apart from having better note seperation, the sustain was not too much different. As regards the mounting of the 'new' bridge assembly into my precious archtops, I found enough meat underneath / around the bridge pickup area , to make it seem a safe idea.
I found that the wooden versions, give a subtle blending effect to chords, and therefore make it sound like less of a 'strum' when you are using a plectrum - and although I gather the mass of metal might be seen as a 'tone dampener' by many in the realm of the higher price Jazz guitar buyers, it worked for me - and gave the added bonus of making re-stringing less fraught - and of course intonation absolutely precise.
No doubt you will have experienced some of these attributes this with your ES137s, and partly on your 'top ticket' ES-175s - but by modifying a guitar(s) that was otherwise A) Fully hollow B) had a set back Lyre tailpiece , I was able to bring home the goods with new pots / caps and a pair of my beloved BKPs for under £500 per guitar.
I have not fallen out with wooden bridges, but a narrow mounting post slender 'Nashville' type bridge, ticked more boxes when it came to fine tuning the tone and attributes of a lively sounding 'workhorse' guitar. The only downside ( cosmetically ) - is that I found I needed to make a pair of light wooden sleeves to hide the screw threads on the mounting posts . I got the idea from looking at the pictures of the Peerless 'Robert Conti' model , but peerless position / mount the bridge to sit closer by design on that model.
Cheers ! :)
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Thanks for all the contributions above, which have definitely influenced my choice.
The die is now cast: Peerless Sunset with TI Bebop 12s.
Going to let it settle in, but expect to replace the neck pickup ('57 Classic) with a Manhattan down the line.
Will keep you posted.
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Thanks for all the contributions above, which have definitely influenced my choice.
The die is now cast: Peerless Sunset with TI Bebop 12s.
Going to let it settle in, but expect to replace the neck pickup ('57 Classic) with a Manhattan down the line.
Will keep you posted.
I genuinely think you would be delighted with a Manhattan in the neck postition . 8)
When you do get one , try a pickup height of 3mm between the top of the pole pieces and the underside of the strings, when the strings are fretted at the last fret.
The usual 'good to go' setting for the low to medium BKP pickups is 2 - 2.5 mm ; and whilst this is also true for the luscious Manhattans and sweet Stormy Mondays, I have found that a specific bias towards 'Piano' sounds and chord melody in general - often benefits from a touch more 'air' in the sound.
One of the reason I like my BKPs , is the fact that they are delightfully height sensitive - and give you a classic sound / platform from which you can then 'dial in' a number of subtle variations.
The last bit of minutae, is the use of a D'Andrea 'Pro-plec' for your test pick . I found them to give me the best ever sweet , round and yet focused '50s Jazz' sound. Fender clears in a medium are very open sounding, yet still avoid that annoying 'scratchy' sound. However, if you want to hear the note - and nothing but the note, get your hands on a D'andrea pro plec or two, in your favourite shape.
happy experimenting ! :)
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Hopefully my experience might be of help:
I started playing jazz on a Gibson ES135 - similar to the 137. It was OK but despite swapping pups and trying various strings and amps I could never get a convincing jazz tone, although it was quite a versatile guitar.
After many years I moved on to a Godin Kingpin and swapped the stock pup for what would now be called a Half Note. I was really into Charlie Christian and Grant Green at the time and the guitar was great for that, but not terribly suitable for more smooth, fluid styles.
I then went for a Peerless Sunset (thinline but hollowbody, floating bridge, etc).
The Sunset is perfect and I haven't even upgraded the stock Epiphone humbuckers.
I hear people mention the 'piano tone' a lot in jazz guitar circles. I've never really understood what they meant! I am also a pianist and can hear little similarity, except on occasion when listening to someone like Jim Hall who can have a very thumpy sort of tone.
Hope this helps!
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Oops didn't see page 2&3 of this thread!
Great choice by the way.
I have my Sunset strung with TI Swing flats, 13 gauge. When I get the cash will install some unpotted Alnico 2 Stormy Mondays.
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Hopefully my experience might be of help:
I started playing jazz on a Gibson ES135 - similar to the 137. It was OK but despite swapping pups and trying various strings and amps I could never get a convincing jazz tone, although it was quite a versatile guitar.
After many years I moved on to a Godin Kingpin and swapped the stock pup for what would now be called a Bluenote. I was really into Charlie Christian and Grant Green at the time and the guitar was great for that, but not terribly suitable for more smooth, fluid styles.
I then went for a Peerless Sunset (thinline but hollowbody, floating bridge, etc).
The Sunset is perfect and I haven't even upgraded the stock Epiphone humbuckers.
I hear people mention the 'piano tone' a lot in jazz guitar circles. I've never really understood what they meant! I am also a pianist and can hear little similarity, except on occasion when listening to someone like Jim Hall who can have a very thumpy sort of tone.
Hope this helps!
It was great to hear of your experiences with the hardware - and thoughts on 'Piano tone'. We don't get that much banter about heavily strung archtops around these parts ! I am surmising that what many call 'piano tone' is just a certain clarity of note defininition and the presence of subtle dynamics , combined with a sustain that is felt through the body of the instrument.
I appreciate that ( in theory ) sustain is sometimes thought undesirable in Jazz guitar circles, as you want the note to be sweet but die young, so the next note / notes in a chord sequence can be heard in their own right. Given that subtle left hand damping and choice of pick can 'control' that sustain, it becomes desirable to have a clear ringing sustain, for the ' Big finish' chords - and pedal notes e.t.c Those of us that never played the piano, but heard other people do so, tend to carry with us a memory of this cavernous resonance and sustain that seems to keep going when you leave the room . I suppose ( for me ) it is a sense of the note being pianesque - as it is struck with a jaunty 'bounce' - and therefore all the harmonics can swell up around the fundamental tone. So I suppose it is essentialy about producing 'the tone in your head' with the unplugged guitar - then choosing / setting the amp and cables to make the guitar sound physically bigger, as opposed to merely louder. To magnify the volume, but get out of the way of the tone. The Phil Jones AAD Cub comes to mind in that respect.
I like the whole T.I. flatwound sound ( currently using 12s for ease of movement , and increased subtlety in the dynamics ) - but looking to return to 13s when the fretting hand gets more practiced . I read in a rare Q&A session on a Japanese fan site for Joe Pass, that in later years, he used the T.I. Swing in 13 - and knew the guy behind the company. I like the fact that 13s just don't move sideways even if you grab a chord clumsily , and of course that wonderful firm feeling under the fingers in general.
As one who is gradually building an understanding and repetoire for solo, duo or trio work, the idea of string noise is undesirable ( as there will be nothing around me 'blasting ' loud enough to drown it out ) so flatwounds are my weapon of choice. They do of course tend to sound less '3D' that the corresponding Thomastik or Newtone Roundwounds, but rich and lush, instead of rich and 'springy'.
The idea of unpotted Stormy Mondays sounds brilliant ! I use the potted version in my modded Ibanez AF75 - and it gives a sound ( even in this relatively cheap guitar ) that I could happily use for many years to come. A close call between the Manhattans and these, but the Manhattans I have are Gold plated, whilst the Ibby has Chrome fittings.
Today's 'Google' time must include another look at the Peerless Sunset, not for credit card battering, but for the appreciation of a lovely thing . 8)
Cheers !
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What a relief to hear someone talking about proper music, rather than all this 'metal' nonsense. 8)
I was beginning to think that we were a 'lost tribe' :)
Tomastik flat wound 13s for me, on my Artcore AS103.
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What a relief to hear someone talking about proper music, rather than all this 'metal' nonsense. 8)
I was beginning to think that we were a 'lost tribe' :)
Tomastik flat wound 13s for me, on my Artcore AS103.
Excellent ! :D
I can imagine that the lower tension / better balanced T.I. strings feel nice , even on a guitar with a standard tailpiece. :) My assumption that the set back Lyre tailpiece reduces tension, might be purely psychological, or more realistically , it is probably to do with giving softer 'break angles' where the strings leave the bridge e.t.c. The AS103 would have been my more obvious thinline, due to it having the same neck and build qualities as the ( pleasantly surprising ) AF75.
I tend to bang on about the pleasures of the chord melody style, but for me, it's the joy ( after many years of Hacking my way through Blues / Soul / Rock'n'Roll styles ) - of finding something that really got me fascinated with the music itself - and a better understanding thereof. I choose the guitar , but love a good song. When I pick up a nice comfy guitar , with heavy flats on, It's natural to think of the guitar as my chosen tool for exploring the fascinating realm of what would perhaps usually be thought of as a pianist's repetoire. That satisfaction of experimenting with chord voicings , and training both the ear and mind to be better at going through a melody on the stepping stones of sweet / emotive / elegant chords e.t.c The greatest projected ambition, would be to work with/accompany a like minded, velvet voiced singer - ( or 'Comping' - as they say in our quaint corner of the woods 8)).
I also want to avoid doing what I did with the previous style(s) - and that is jumping ahead to the improvised single note stuff. After a further year or two on chord melody ( with a progressive , but relatively modest 'daily dabble ' in visualising / hearing the chord scales and arpegios ) - the rest awaits ; but I so enjoy the feel and completeness of the whole chord melody arena - that there are just so many beautiful songs that I want to inhabit first. That lovely sound of velvet notes at low volumes - and getting excited about buying a piece of sheet music - to ( in my case ) slowly 'spell' through, and take it to the guitar like we used to take a vinyl record to the record player. :D
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What a relief to hear someone talking about proper music, rather than all this 'metal' nonsense. 8)
I was beginning to think that we were a 'lost tribe' :)
I second that, Nice to have you back FF, great to have another Hepcat knocking about.
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What a relief to hear someone talking about proper music, rather than all this 'metal' nonsense. 8)
I was beginning to think that we were a 'lost tribe' :)
I second that, Nice to have you back FF, great to have another Hepcat knocking about.
Thanks, Lezard - most kind of you to say so. :)
With respects to the purveyors of other styles, I think it is nice to ( collectively ) represent all the possibilities of BKP's range. For me , the ' Hepcat friendly ' pickups exemplify what most of us like about Tim's stuff ; the openess, the dynamics - and the way that all tastes and styles are catered for. When Telerocker told us he was using his BKP Mules to cover the bases in a covers band doing " Everything from Joan Jet to Beyonce " it brought an appreciative smile - and of course reminded me that we have the whole range of players on here, 'cross pollinating' ideas and enthusiasms. I would not really feel like spending any online time on a Jazz specific forum, prefering the members, characteristics and general attitude of this one for banter - and the guitar itself for Jazz.
I really must plug into my Guitar Rig Mobile this weekend, and leave a few sound clips. I have a lot of work yet to do on those tunes, but meanwhile - hope to remind the casual browser , that the style / application is also covered by the BKP range - and you don't have to look elsewhere , if your tastes are less mainstream . :)
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....well said FF and Lezard#... 8)
...."respects to the purveyors of other styles"....! :D
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...."respects to the purveyors of other styles"....! :D
Not Too much respect though.... :)
I would not really feel like spending any online time on a Jazz specific forum, prefering the members, characteristics and general attitude of this one for banter - and the guitar itself for Jazz.
I'm on a few jazz forums myself, far too on topic.
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Hi I've come quite late to the discussion.
+1 on the TI strings - I have used the jazz bebop, George Bensons and the swings and have settled on the jazz swing sets for an awesome sound- 13s on a Gibson 175, 12s on a Hofner with a longer scale length.
The 175 has Stormy Monday in the neck (unpotted) and sounds really great. I have it set on the low side and play a lot of fingerstyle stuff.
One thing that no one's mentioned yet which I think contributes enormously to a good jazz tone is where to pick the string - whereas on "normal" guitars its often natural to pick between the pickups, for a decent jazz tone I find it best to pick more or less where the neck pickup is, for so called piano tones.
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Hi I've come quite late to the discussion.
+1 on the TI strings - I have used the jazz bebop, George Bensons and the swings and have settled on the jazz swing sets for an awesome sound- 13s on a Gibson 175, 12s on a Hofner with a longer scale length.
The 175 has Stormy Monday in the neck (unpotted) and sounds really great. I have it set on the low side and play a lot of fingerstyle stuff.
One thing that no one's mentioned yet which I think contributes enormously to a good jazz tone is where to pick the string - whereas on "normal" guitars its often natural to pick between the pickups, for a decent jazz tone I find it best to pick more or less where the neck pickup is, for so called piano tones.
Nice to hear the weapons of choice ( and indeed the very existence of ) another affecionado of the style. :D
Very valid point about the picking position ; as I think about my own natural picking postion ( more based on the way I hug the guitar close ) - I am somewhere between the neck pickup and last few frets. One of the things I love about the 20 fret 'all body , no neck' 175 style of guitar, is the fact that you have the strings running that unusually long distance , between machine heads and tail, then you have a relatively compact 'working area' of shorter neck and heavier strings. It really helps me get into the mindset of chord melody work , and the music itself. As you said, the tone itself sounds sweeter and richer - and that way your personal 'sound' gets moulded around your playing position. I can imagine the unpotted Stormy Monday is a revelation unto itself ! The Hofner sounds like a great contrast ( feel wise ) - and of course they appear to be very well thought out / layed out from the player's perspective. I would be interested to hear what you thought of the Manhattan, if you ever tried it. :)
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one of my friend, pro jazz guitarist, has a great jazz 'bell-piano' tone out of an old ibanez saber with bkp emerald in it.. go figure . :)
my es335 does the adam rogers tone perfectly, but not really well the piano tone unless i use a booster that i built before it, then i bring back a lot of clarity and note separation.
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one of my friend, pro jazz guitarist, has a great jazz 'bell-piano' tone out of an old ibanez saber with bkp emerald in it.. go figure . :)
No surprise there ; with a resonant body - and a nice 'open' sounding B.K.P. in there, it will certainly enable the 'snake charmer' who plays it , to draw out lovely tones. I think that clarity and adjustability are the common thread(s) between all the B.K.P. I have tried, from Stormy Mondays - to Warpigs. Power need not be dull - and a responsive guitar is an excellent foundation to build on, be it solid, semi-solid or hollow. :)
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I can get a nice dynamic and open jazzy tone from my Mules too.
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I also (re) disovered that 'Piano' tone with my Mississipi Queens in a cheap / quite heavy 335 copy earlier today , and light GeorgeL's strings ( 10,12,15,24,32,42 ) . Sometimes, It really is about finding that ( often unexpected) combination of random components - and an amp clear enough to reveal them. My amp was the diminutive and much used / loved Roland Micro-Cube, on JC120 model. Lovely tones. :)
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nice !!!! 8)