Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: JBASHORUN on February 13, 2006, 01:31:11 PM

Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 13, 2006, 01:31:11 PM
I'm looking to upgrade one of my guitars to better pickups.  Its a Gibson SG.  I play mainly thrash type stuff a la Megadeth, Death Angel, Pantera, Metallica, etc.  I was wondering which pickup would be best suited.  I've heard great things about the Warpig, but some say its pretty bassy and not much treble, and I don't want a muddy sound... I want good crunch, but there has to be enough clarity and versatility to tone things down for the more sensitive parts.  

Any suggestions as to which pup is best are appreciated.



PS:  It was a bit childish to delete my last post on the active pickups... what, is it ILLEGAL to mention other options?!!!
Title: Re: BEST BKP FOR THRASH
Post by: Ol on February 13, 2006, 01:44:48 PM
Quote from: JBASHORUN


PS:  It was a bit childish to delete my last post on the active pickups... what, is it ILLEGAL to mention other options?!!!


Your post was reported by several forum members as it was about another pickup and appeared as though you were spamming.  And considering it was your first post, it does not demonstrate much etiquette to talk about another pickup on our forum.   When you signed up to the BKP forum you accepted our terms and conditions, one of which is:

 "You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit."

I hope this is clear.  However, if there has been a misunderstanding, please accept my apologies.

rgds
Ol.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: genocidal tendencies on February 13, 2006, 02:04:07 PM
If I were a mod I would have moved it, not deleted it, but I guess that's just me.

Anyway, the warpig's certainly not muddy, but it's probably too bass heavy for old school thrash. It's designed more to cope with modern metal. For the bands you suggest I'd say the nailbomb is probably what you're looking for.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 13, 2006, 02:20:50 PM
Thanks for your reply.

I apologise if I offended BKP, but would like to confirm that I AM a potential BKP user.  Or at least I WAS until now!  Quality products, good image... the only downside I could see was the price, but considering they are handmade (and in England, as opposed to some far Eastern country) I can appreciate the extra cost.

My post regarding the active pickups was in order to compare the active pickup with BKP products to find out which would give a similar or EVEN BETTER sound, and to find out whether I would prefer a BKP.

You will note that I said I had not yet installed the active pickup, and for that reason I was looking for alternatives.  I wanted to know if the Warpig would sound similar, yet allow for more versatility by driving the amp less when on low gain settings.  Other members realised this, and kindly directed me toward the MiracleMan.  I then wanted to compare this to the active pup to understand how it would differ.

I really can't understand that mentioning another type of pickup is a problem...  The caption next to the 'Pickups' forum says "Get in the ring for EVERYTHING about pickups", not "This space is for free publicity of BKP products".  

I thought BKP was secure enough about their products to admit that there are other manufacturers of pickups out there, but perhaps I'm wrong.  If you can't compare BKPs to other pickups, what CAN you do?  

I might also add that I never once said anything derogatory about BKP in my deleted post, and if the post had continued, the discussion might have even worked out greatly in favour of BKP.

Ofcourse, feel free to delete my posts as you wish.  But when freedom of speech, and freedom of industrial competition is replaced with... "you will only say what WE want you to say" and "there is only one supplier, and that is US"... well, we all know what sort of people subscribe to that sort of mentality....


Spamming?!  WTF?!


Jb
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 13, 2006, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: genocidal tendencies
Anyway, the warpig's certainly not muddy, but it's probably too bass heavy for old school thrash. It's designed more to cope with modern metal. For the bands you suggest I'd say the nailbomb is probably what you're looking for.


Thanks, man... I'll try and check some of the audio samples.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 13, 2006, 02:42:46 PM
Hmm, just been checking out Tim's audio samples (the dude can play!).  But the audio clip of the Nailbomb-  he says he used some distortion effects, but it still doesn't sound that "heavy"... good thrash soloing/lead tone though.  Or maybe thats just because he didn't play such a heavy song.

Now the Miracle Man has that "heavy" sound for the powerchords, but it might be OTT, and not right if you try soloing with it, although I can't say for sure.

It would be good if there was a pup inbetween or a cross between the two!!!

Thanks again,
Jb
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: Ol on February 13, 2006, 02:46:25 PM
jb, thank you for the courteous response.

Quote from: JBASHORUN
Thanks for your reply.

I apologise if I offended BKP, but would like to confirm that I AM a potential BKP user.  


No offence taken.  But you have to understand that we would like the BKP forum to remain a cool chilled out place to be with quality sharing of information. And if part of that process is to be sometimes a little overzealous on acting on reported posts then so be it. What we don't want is the standard of the forum to drop to the level of other forums where people just post rubbish.  (And before you suggest it, I am not saying your post was 'rubbish' :-))

Quote from: JBASHORUN
I really can't understand that mentioning another type of pickup is a problem...  


Mentioning other pickups is NOT a problem, if mentioned in the right manner.  What I and the members who reported your post had issue with was the manner in which the 'other' pickup was mentioned.

Quote from: JBASHORUN
I might also add that I never once said anything derogatory about BKP in my deleted post,

True, and no one said you had.

Quote from: JBASHORUN
and if the post had continued, the discussion might have even worked out greatly in favour of BKP.

Perhaps.

Quote from: JBASHORUN
Spamming?!  WTF?!


We get a fair number of posts on the forum which need deleting because they are spam.  We have to make a decision on whether we think they are spam or not.  Sometimes we make the right decision, sometimes not.  After all, we are only human.  In this case, it appears to be in a grey area.

I shall be drifting off into the shadows again, so this will be my last post on the matter, but nevertheless, welcome to the forum.

rgds
ol.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: Kilby on February 13, 2006, 02:59:31 PM
Ermm,

I replied to the original posting, and it did look like it was a tech question regarding the active pickup you have already purchased rather than a question regarding a bareknuckle product.

It may have looked like spam (to some) though (to me) it just looked a bit off topic.

The guys here are not perscriptive over what can be discussed, but do try and keep things on topic. They are also rather generous in that they (unlike other pickup mfgrs) do not allow critisism of other mfgrs products.

However to get back on topic from your description the Nailbomb would be a pretty good pickup choice, though perhaps a Miracle Man may also be in the tonal range you want.


Rob...
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 13, 2006, 03:03:44 PM
ok, point taken...  its not wise to promote (intentionally or otherwise) another manufacturer's product on a company's website.  I can see why you might have objected.  I'll try and keep it BKP from now on!  :D

Jb
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: Ratrod on February 13, 2006, 03:41:43 PM
I was able to read your first post and hear the audio sample. If you liked the sound of that, I would suggest a Miracle Man. If you liked the bass of that sample but not the treble of it, the Warpig is the answer.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 13, 2006, 03:43:30 PM
Quote from: Kilby
from your description the Nailbomb would be a pretty good pickup choice, though perhaps a Miracle Man may also be in the tonal range you want.



Hmm, yes... I like them both, but for different reasons.  So... perhaps that could be solved by puting a Nailbomb in the bridge pos, and a MM in the neck pos?  sounds like a good idea...
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 13, 2006, 03:50:54 PM
Quote from: Ratrod
I was able to read your first post and hear the audio sample. If you liked the sound of that, I would suggest a Miracle Man. If you liked the bass of that sample but not the treble of it, the Warpig is the answer.


Yeah, I liked the sound of the active pup, so the MM would be good (Plus its passive, so no need to replace batteries and refit pots!).  But I'm really after a setup that can give me the "chugga-chugga" thrash basslines and muted powerchord riffs, yet still be versatile enough to play some good "widdly-diddly-dee" solo/lead licks too.

But maybe if I want that sort of thing I would have to consider both the bridge AND neck pickup, and maybe start using my switches more...


Thanks,

Jb
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on February 13, 2006, 03:56:37 PM
I played a quick thrash clip using the MM here:

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2141

A ceramic pup is going to have much tighter bass than Alnico V, imo, tho.
If you want a looser, chugging-type tone, the MM is probably not the way to go.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: jt on February 13, 2006, 05:51:55 PM
:D Ok here`s my Twopeneth worth. Having heard the EMG`s at LGS & in guitar shops for my money there`s no competition, i`d go for a Miracle Man, Nailbomb the Warpig might be a bit to New Punkish tho

 :D  8)
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: _tom_ on February 13, 2006, 06:00:37 PM
Cant Tim make a MM with Alnico magnet instead of its ceramic one? I thought I read somewhere that he did that, or was that ceramic warpigs? Anyway, for metal tones, Nailbomb seems the way to go for versatility
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: Ratrod on February 13, 2006, 06:14:25 PM
Click the link below for chugga chugga Warpig riffing.

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=469&highlight=suicide
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: tewboss on February 13, 2006, 06:35:49 PM
I'd also recommend the Nailbomb. It's a good replacement for a Seymour Duncan JB (which can sound muddy) that was used by Dave Mustaine etc. As far as I'm aware thrash bands didn't use active electronics until Metallica started the trend. I've got Nailbombs in my guitar and they are so much clearer than the JB in my other guitar.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: 38thBeatle on February 13, 2006, 07:00:41 PM
I will just chip in and say welcome to the forum- can't help with pups suggestions as I am a single coil type but it'll be interesting to see if you decide to get BKPs ( they are wonderful) and what you think when you have them.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: hobleguitars on February 13, 2006, 10:37:30 PM
Hey, welcome. I play the same genre's you do (i.e. thrash a la megadeth, death angel, etc.) and bought a Miracle Man for the bridge of my LP. With my anti-thrash set up (due to playing in a pop/rock group as well) I've still managed to pull off galloping/thrashing basslines and screaming middly-meeee solos just off that bridge pup.

I'd heartily recommend it for what you're playing, as the tight bass response means it's just as fun to chug along as it is too wail.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: lulusg on February 14, 2006, 02:53:04 AM
:)
Hi there. This is the SG with Warpigs. They have a clean, clear and well defined sound, they are very versatile indeed.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/BAREKNUCKLESG/DCP_0329.jpg)
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: Miracle Man Matt on February 14, 2006, 03:32:14 AM
Mate seriously, go for the Miracleman i reckon.

The MM is made for soloing!!!!!! so no worries about that, harmonics are nearly easier than my 81, but sound alot better and clearer! it also is the clearest PU I have and stomps on the 81.  

The 81 is more mid heavy and has less top end which gives it alot of the chuggyness (bands such as megadeth, pantera, metallica all use EMG 81's)

The MM I find even tighter than the 81 and has a ton more bass ( mine has dual allen head screws for even more bass and top!).  You might want to remember to boost some of the mids on the amp as the MM has a slight dip in the mids, which makes fast runs very fluid and smooth, but for stuff like metallica which has alot of mids, just remember to compensate.

Anyway hope this helps

MMM
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: Tim on February 14, 2006, 08:15:11 AM
Hi and welcome to the forum!

Couple of things first-I'm not against mentioning other makers p/ups and infact if applicable will recommend some if a BKP is not suitable however as we run and pay for the forum we watch it's content.If other members report posts as spamming we have to act.Please don't think it's a BKP only forum although most come here to find out about them, discuss usage etc.

OK, my suggestion would be the Miracle Man for serious heavy riffage.The bottom end is nice and tight, very fast and responsive with a nice cut in the highs that is neither shrill or dull.

To answer Tom's thread, we do make an Alnico V Miracle Man, it's normally used in the neck against a MM bridge but that doesn't mean it can't be used in a bridge slot.The main difference is in the bass response-it's warmer and not so surgically tight.

If you want anymore help don't hesitate to PM/email me :D
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: dave_mc on February 14, 2006, 06:17:52 PM
Quote from: Miracle Man Matt
The 81 is more mid heavy and has less top end which gives it alot of the chuggyness (bands such as megadeth, pantera, metallica all use EMG 81's)


er..... megadeth use the duncan jb, and pantera/dime used a bill lawrence (or more recently, dimebucker...)

 :twisted:
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: genocidal tendencies on February 14, 2006, 07:13:44 PM
and metallica didn't use EMGs either when they did their thrashier stuff, either.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: dave_mc on February 14, 2006, 09:22:42 PM
^true.

 :twisted:
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 17, 2006, 06:47:17 PM
Thanks a lot guys... and sorry for the delay in replying... my inbox sent the emails to the junkmail folder, so I completely 4got about this topic.

Well, I currently have the EMG active Zakk Wylde set in my Gibson SG.  Thats an 81 and 85.  Its funny actually, because I don't particularly like Zakk Wylde's songs.  But I heard some other guys like Metallica used them (not sure if thats true), but thats what inspired me to get them.  I think they're okay, but nothing special... very hyped up though!

From what I've heard in the audio clips, and from what you guys have been saying, I think its gonna have to be the Miracle Man.  I bought a Washburn Flying V recently, and I might try popping one in that to see how it sounds.

Gotta be worth trying....


Thanks again,


Jb
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 17, 2006, 06:58:10 PM
btw... TwilightOdyssey:  I thought the MM thrash clip was great!  Nice opening riffs, but still good for the treble string stuff toward the end.

HobleGuitars:  You have good taste, glad to hear there are more thrash-heads out there!
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: genocidal tendencies on February 17, 2006, 07:50:09 PM
^^metallica use EMGs, but not the ZW set. Last time I checked, hammett usually uses a 81/89 pair while hetfield uses a 81/60 pair. I think he does use the 89 sometimes aswell, though.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: dave_mc on February 17, 2006, 09:48:17 PM
^doesn't hammett sometimes use dual 81's as well?
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: Muttley on February 17, 2006, 10:09:03 PM
Quote from: JBASHORUN
...glad to hear there are more thrash-heads out there!


Another thrash-head here, although I don't really play thrash as such.

Favourites are Overkill, and I love Testament, Anthrax, early Megadeth and Death Angel too.  :)

Muttley
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: genocidal tendencies on February 17, 2006, 10:28:55 PM
^^now you mention it, I think he does. Not that it really matters, playing through all those mesas they could be using teles and you wouldn't know the difference.

Oh, and dave, next time you're on ug (since you're a mod and won't get banned for it), would you mind informing dreadnought that he's a hypocritical, power tripping little bitch for me please? I'd appreciate it if you could also mention that he flames more than chung (and he's more of a dick than either of us), and so consistency demands that he get banned himself. It's a shame, really. I mean, you expect most of the most to be assholes (actually just cas), but dreadnought actually used to be worth talking to. Now he's so far up his own arse he doesn't actually do anything other than find excuses to warn, flame and ban anyone he doesn't like. It's weird that something as simple as being modded could do that to someone. I really need to stop going on UG while I'm banned... Anyway, rant over. Warpigs, eh?
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: dave_mc on February 17, 2006, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: genocidal tendencies
^^now you mention it, I think he does. Not that it really matters, playing through all those mesas they could be using teles and you wouldn't know the difference.

Oh, and dave, next time you're on ug (since you're a mod and won't get banned for it), would you mind informing dreadnought that he's a hypocritical, power tripping little bitch for me please? I'd appreciate it if you could also mention that he flames more than chung (and he's more of a dick than either of us), and so consistency demands that he get banned himself. It's a shame, really. I mean, you expect most of the most to be assholes (actually just cas), but dreadnought actually used to be worth talking to. Now he's so far up his own arse he doesn't actually do anything other than find excuses to warn, flame and ban anyone he doesn't like. It's weird that something as simple as being modded could do that to someone. I really need to stop going on UG while I'm banned... Anyway, rant over. Warpigs, eh?


 :lol:

I can't really get in a fight with the other mods, especially since it's not really anything to do with me... :(

But i know what you mean- i find a lot of the time in the Secret mod forum that I'm one of the few guys who acts the same as i did before i got modded (power freak and mascot are also still the same)- a lot of the guys are "ban first, ask questions later".

what'd you get banned for anyway? (shoot me a pm, so as not to clutter up the BKP boards and this topic anymore! :D
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: Miracle Man Matt on February 18, 2006, 04:50:51 AM
Quote
er..... megadeth use the duncan jb, and pantera/dime used a bill lawrence (or more recently, dimebucker...)


ah, well Im pretty sure they used 81's at some point, maybe earlier on.  my bad, and my mistake with pantera, I ment Slayer (im pretty sure Kerry King uses 81's)

Anyway the MM will do all of this

MMM
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 18, 2006, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: Muttley
Quote from: JBASHORUN
...glad to hear there are more thrash-heads out there!  Favourites are Overkill, and I love Testament, Anthrax, early Megadeth and Death Angel too.  :)

Muttley



Nice one Muttley... Death Angel's "The Ultra-Violence" is a killer song!  One recommendation though... check out an album called "Extraction From Mortality" by a CHRISTIAN thrash group (yes, Christian as in Jesus!).  Its got some classic riffs.  quite hard to find though, as its out of print.  Ebay or Amazon would be your best bet...


Jb
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 18, 2006, 09:51:08 AM
Quote from: genocidal tendencies
Oh, and dave, next time you're on ug


You don't mean www.ultimate-guitar.com do you?  That website steals tabs from other websites!  :x
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: _tom_ on February 18, 2006, 11:15:13 AM
UG seems to be the only site WITH a good selection of tabs! Who cares if they "advertize" other sites tabs, at least you get what you want  :D
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 18, 2006, 12:20:02 PM
Quote from: _tom_
UG seems to be the only site WITH a good selection of tabs! Who cares if they "advertize" other sites tabs, at least you get what you want  :D



"Advertise"?!  I spent a long time tabbing out an Impellitteri song and submitted it to www.powertabs.net .  When that website temporarily stopped running, ultimate-guitar.com copied the COMPLETE tab database without permission.  Now my tabbed song is on the UG website without any mention of or credit to me for tabbing it out.  I don't object to my tabs being made available, after all, thats why I tabbed them out in the first place.  But I do object to them being used without giving me the credit for the hours I put in.

And UG was a bad website even before it copied all the powertab files... there are THOUSANDS of badly written TEXT tab files.  IMO tab programmes are far superior, and www.powertabs.net was by far the best for powertabs (before it temporarily shut down) and www.mysongbook.com was the best for GuitarPro files.  Between these two websites, I found no need to ever visit U-G.com.


Jb
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: _tom_ on February 18, 2006, 12:48:47 PM
Ohh right thats fair enough then, the text tabs normally say where they come from though I think?
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: MDV on February 18, 2006, 01:04:29 PM
Just to chip in late: I leap for my miracle men (two guitars with them) for thrash over my warpig. The pig sounds bigger, middier and more organic, great for thrash but better for vrey much heavier modern/death metal.

The MMs have a super-tight bass, smooth mid and sharp-but-never-harsh treble that make it THE best thrash pickup I've ever heard.
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: genocidal tendencies on February 18, 2006, 03:29:03 PM
Quote from: JBASHORUN
You don't mean www.ultimate-guitar.com do you?  That website steals tabs from other websites!  :x


To be fair, they're pretty much the only site that hosts text tabs anyway. If they hadn't copied tabs from a lot of other sites they would have just been lost. I agree powertab and guitarpro are better than text, but not everyone has them, do they?
Title: Best BKP for thrash
Post by: JBASHORUN on February 18, 2006, 03:45:09 PM
Quote from: genocidal tendencies
To be fair, they're pretty much the only site that hosts text tabs anyway. If they hadn't copied tabs from a lot of other sites they would have just been lost. I agree powertab and guitarpro are better than text, but not everyone has them, do they?



Yeah, I suppose you're right... although its nice to be credited for the work you do, especially when its a free service, like tabbing out songs.  The powertabs.net website claims it will be up and running again soon, so the tabs wouldn't have been lost forever, just temporarily unavailable.  I guess increased access to tabs can't be a bad thing. But I'd highly recommend powertab to anyone who hasn't got it... it is completely free to download and use!  :D


Jb