Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Nitwit on June 24, 2012, 09:37:04 PM
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As title might suggest I'm after a few new pickups in my old guitar, Actually it's a year old. Bought it for quite a cheap penny, as it imo looks pretty nice, not your typical Guitar God looking guitar, but it's something special. Heres a pic:
(http://www.eaglemusic.no/sitefiles/site4009/shop/77_12.jpg)
Yes all that fancy stuff around the sides are Mother of Pearl.
Not mine, but identical in every way, as you might see it has EMG Select pickups which I've been meaning to change for. Well, last year, since I bought it.
Not been playing guitar for all that long, but I think that thing is a dream to play on, but I want something more out of the sound so the time has come to change pickups, which I know nothing about, ofcourse. But I looked around and stumbled upon this site, and I thought, this is fancy. Why not put something fancy in my fancy guitar, so here I am.
Since I know next to nothing about pups or what goes with what wood and what suits what style of music etc etc, I was hoping to steal some wonderful advice from you people here on these boards. So, I'm gonna leave some specs on the guitar and the style of music I generally play and hope for the best.
Specs on it are as follows:
Basswood Body
Maple Top
Hard Maple Neck
I mostly play Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, Blues Rock and abit of Classic Rock thrown in the mix here and there.
Abit of Clean, some crunchy and distorted stuff, pretty varied really.
I was looking at the Mother's Milk pickups in Neck and Mid with The Mule in Bridge, thought those had a fancy sound to em. Might that be a good call or am I completely lost in the big scary woods of Pickups?
Thx for any advice you fellas might be able to provide.
Sincerely, Nitwit.
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Hi and welcome!
Nice poser axe ;)
As for pickups you are not totally off. Your combo could work well, but I would rather suggest you go up a bit in power: Irish Tours and Holydiver. The ITs are basecally the higher output and beefier version of the MM and the Holydiver I recommend as its prime wood is basswood (with the additional maple it should be nice). Very versatile stuff.
This is more leaned towards the hard rock / metal side of what you want. What you thought would go more towards the blues rock / classic rock part.
Both things (and other combos too) would work for what you want but with tendencies towards one style. Iīd say depends on where you focus.
Maybe you would be able to find some adjectives to describe the sound in your head? I know that is always a really hard thing, but it helps us a lot. Things like: agressive, smooth, warm, fat, chunky, bright, open, singing, screaming, organic, clean,.....
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Actually I'm more into the Blues Rock, Heavy metal kinda thing. So many different styles I like it's hard to find a combo that works for everything, probably why I got more guitars already than I got limbs. (On a note, none of the others are playable, mostly cheap arse guitars and one old beaten strat that can't be played right till it's fixed up abit, which is gonna cost me, big time. hency why I wanna fix up this one before I go on to my next purchase)
As for what describes the sound I hear in my head. Rather Beefy fat sound with a slight crunch to it, yet abit warm on the bluesy side and a smooth singing sound on the Heavy Metal side.
Kinda hard to describe.
Mostly, just think ZZ top and GNR and you got me pinned, but not a direct copy of the sound, abit smoother and warmer, yet with the possibility for abit more gainy and I guess brighter when the situation calls for it.
Most important ofcourse is that it sounds nice with whatever it is I'm playing at the time, so needs to be pretty versatile, can't have too much crunch or high end on the clean, I like it mellow. Actually, I like it mellow overall. But again, still want that high pitch crunchy goodness if I want it.
God this is hard when you pretty much want everything.
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I'd go with the Holydiver in the bridge too. It works great in virtually any guitar, is the most versatile pickup I've ever used and its primary home is exactly in the core tones you're looking at. If you look in the online shop you'll see the Holydiver paired with Irish Tours and Trilogy Suites. The Irish Tours will certainly do what you want and possibly surprisingly, so will the Trilogy Suites. Personally I'd go with Trilogy Suites as that's what I use and I wouldn't fancy anything with less power going with the Holydiver. Perfect for what you're looking for.
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That descriptions just screams out Irish Tour/Holy Diver. Both are very thick, fat and crunchy pickups and they excell in these woods.
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The Holy Diver/Irish Tour is a good option. If you want a bridge pickup a that's still beefy but with a more vintage character have a look at the Crawler. You could either pair this with the Irish Tours or maybe Slowhands if you want a thick smooth tone.
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Got alot of votes for Irish Tour/Holydiver here.
But yeah, I do like a vintage tone.
Tried searching around abit for some sound samples of a more Blues Rock style playing of those two pickups, thus far no go on that. Anyone got any idea where I might track one down?
I am aware that it'll sound different on different guitars, but I just need a pointer =p
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So appearently I'm just blind. Found a few clips, quite a few actually. Had to whirl listening to diff clips.
As for the Humbucker I do prefer The Mule over Holydiver and the Crawler that's also been mentioned, to me it just sounds smoother, and I do like smooth. And it still has some crunch in it, not too much but slightly noticable which I like. Also it's not as clangy if you get my meaning as the Holydiver and the Crawler.
But again, it all sounds different in any guitar. If I had the money I'd buy em all and test em all out, sadly I do not. One day perhaps.
As for the Singlecoils, again The Irish Tours sound abit more clangy and less smooth compared to the Mother's Milk pups.
But I'm not entirely sure which one these singlecoils I like the most.
Listened to various clips of these pickups and various combinations in various genres, Blues, 70's Rock, Clean, Hard Rock, and Blues rock. And the above are observations I made from those clips. While the Irish Tours sounds fantastic in a Hard Rock setting, imo it didn't really cut it in a bluesy setting, while the Mother's Milk pups sounds fantastic in a bluesy setting and abit tame in a Hard Rock setting but not bad. Didn't like the Holydiver in a bluesy or even clean setting either, so a Irish Tour/Holydiver combo is pretty much not that interesting, unless I've been listening to some missleading clips.
But it's hard to decide really. While I do adore the sounds I've heard coming from The Mule. I'm on a budget and do have to get one of them HSS sets rather than buying em induvidually, as I do have to import em seeing there's no retailer in my country. Which'll add a hefty sum to the total. Going with The Mule pretty much has the Mother's Milk pups locked down as the only option.
I'm mostly thinking out loud here, but this'll most likely be a permanent upgrade for the guitar, and I do take the guitars look into account aswell, as having that Poser Axe that it was so delicately described earlier by Kiichi, and dishing out high gain tunes on it just doesn't feel right in my head.
But I don't know. Next purchase will be a Gibson Les Paul Traditional 1960's which I've had my eye on for a while, might throw in a few extra bucks after I buy that one and if I'm not quite satisfied with the 57' Classics that's in it and go for an Irish Tour/Holydiver combo in that, as once I get it that will most likely be my primary Hard Rock through Heavy Metal guitar. And with some decently crunchy Blues Rock added on top.
Or would that do better with a Mother's Milk/The Mule combo?
So many possibilities, so once again I ask for advice.
Two Guitars, Two Pickup combinations, what goes where.
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I think you should take a serious look at an Abraxas bridge pickup. I think it's perfect for what you want if you prefer something more vintage than the Holydiver. It's largely designed as a Mule on steroids so will give you everything you like about the Mule but with a bit more kick for the heavier numbers. The Mule is a great pickup but I think you'd love the Abraxas. It has a very vintage feel but with a bit of balls and VERY smooth. It's very versatile. If you're not sure about the Irish Tours because you want something smoother then I think you should be looking at Slowhands. An Abraxas/Slowhands set would give you some very smooth vintage based tones but also be one of the most versatile sets you could buy.
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how are you gonna put single coils in a les paul?
The Mule is a great pickup (as are all BKPs) but it really wont be very capable of metal, regardless of how versatile it is. The AIV magnet will just make it too open and flabby sounding. You MAY feel the same way playing hard rock with it.
Honestly, the clips of the Holy Divers are remarkably bad (actually, most bkps have bad clips, i found that only the rebel yell, Mule, VHII and mothers milk have could demos).
A mule/mothers milk set will sound excellent but it really wont be versatile enough for what. They will turn your guitar primarily into a blues rock/classic rock guitar.
Also, that "poser axe" could not look more metal. That guitar just screams 80s metal all over it, not blues. I can't think of one blues guitarist who uses a guitar like that, whereas i can name a bucketful of hair metal bands that use guitars like that.
Skidrow, Whitesnake and Steve Vai to name a few.
Anyway, the demos of holy diver really don't show of it's versatility. All of them are playing metal with to much treble and horribly scooped mids. same with the cleans. the holy diver is a very capable hard rock and blues pickup and is far more versatile than just that. It's the fattest smoothest contemporary pickup alongside the crawler.
Here is a great demo of the holy diver that just came up on the players section:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=27930.0
Also, take a look at the Abraxas. It's like a mule on steroids and will be much more capable of hard rock... though im not so sure about metal.
^^ EDIT: DAMN NINJA'D!
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Abraxas in a Les Paul to give you an idea of the tone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P2OmLNUAvE
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how are you gonna put single coils in a les paul?
*snip*
Because I'm a nitwit.
Too much stuff, got confused -.-
But I do see your point. No, no Singlecoils in a Les Paul =p
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For the HSS guitar I am definitely standing by the Abraxas and Slowhand combination. The Abraxas is Bluesy enough to match what you like about the Mule but ballsy enough to play Rock while the Slowhands are great with Blues and will venture into Rock if needed and be hot enough to live with the Abraxas. Both are fantastically smooth pickups.
For the Les Paul, how about an Emerald set? The AV bridge pup will do Rock and even some Metal with a very vintage character while the AIV neck pup will give you that smooth Bluesy tone you love so much.
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Well, the guitar itself is of a quite local brand, as for that exact guitar, there's a few Blues and Jazz guitarists using the exact same axe.
As for the clips I've checked out, it's mostly the stuff in the Player section on the forums, those aren't bad are they? =p
Had a listen to those two clips you guys linked. The Holydiver do sound rather nice in that clip indeed.
The Abraxas does aswell.
Abraxas sounds abit too Crunchy though, might be the clip I don't know. But might go well coupled with the Slow hands as was mentioned, I don't know, haven't checked out that particular pickup as of posting, I will shortly.
As for the Les Paul, since I am as forementioned a nitwit. And completely forgot we were talking about both singlecoils and humbuckers, I'll put a pause on that for the time beeing, till after I've decided on a set of pickups (or rather we, as I'm pretty much trusting you fellas on this matter) and actually bought the Les Paul and played around with it abit.
That said, nothing is stopping me from buying yet another axe. (Apart from you know, rent and food) And throw The Mule/Mother's Milk combo into that. But it all depends on how much I like these BKPs tbh, as I haven't really tried a set before. And ofcourse, If I want to get another HSS axe, which is unlikely.
But yeah, from what you're telling me the Abraxas sounds quite nice, I'll see if I can look up some clips with a more bluesy feeling to it and check out the Slowhand aswell. And perhaps put that in it.
Might go with the Holy Diver and something else for the Les Paul. Because as I've said, I want the "Poser Axe" To be more of a Blues Rock, Classic Rock, some dabbling into Hard Rock Kinda thing.
While the Les Paul a more Hard Rock through Heavy Metal (Actually, not all that heavy).
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Didn't find any Abraxas bluesy clips, or rather Bluesy rock clips. But from the clips I did find, it sounded abit more like the kind of thing I would want in that Les Paul.
But to be versatile, which is also a good thing, I do think they might be able to compliment eachother pretty nice, if I ever want to play anything else without changing guitar. Ofcourse, would be cool to hear some Blues Rock on it.
Did find a few Slowhand ones though, and my god, they're nice. Me likey, me likey alot.
Think I might like em more than the Mother's Milk pups.
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Yeah, I responded to the Slowhands exactly the same way. I would LOVE to have some in my Jackson but they're just not hot enough to go with the Holydiver I put in there and certainly won't match the Miracle Man I'm now putting in that guitar. The best person to ask about the Abraxas is probably HTH AMPS as it's his favourite pickup and he's done clips of all sorts of styles. I'm sure he'd be able to give you some valuable information on how well an Abraxas would meet your criteria. I've heard him use the Abraxas on everything from Blues to Metal. I think he has a load of posts on You Tube and the vast majority of them are using the Abraxas. I sure can't think of a pickup that is better suited to what you want.
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Might be worth giving forum member Nolly a shout. I'm pretty sure he has a strat with Abraxas bridge and Mother's Milks in middle and neck. He has also played the whole BKP range so his advice should be good.
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Checked out HTH Amps on the Tube, and various other youtube clips of the pickup, and it does sound rather close that what I want.
So yeah, I think I might go with Abraxas and Slow Hand combo.
Now, these two aren't part of any HSS set, which I guess feature the Hum cancelling stuff. Is that gonna prove a big issue? (again, as previously said, I know nuffin about pickups).
Also, I gotta decide on a color for these things. I was Thinking cream for the single coils and a zebra for the humbucker.
But I do like Humbucking covers both for the tone and the look itself, and the covers BKP provides looks pretty darn nice. But not sure what'll go well with that guitar of mine, and not clash too much with the "bare" singlecoils.
Would a Gold Pickup cover look out of place on that guitar with 2 cream singlecoils? I do like the look of the Black Battleworn or distressed whatever you wanna call it aswell, not sure how well that's gonna go with the guitar though. Ofcourse, the pickups I got in it now are black so.
Anyone got some ideas? Like if you've actually seen these covers up close you might have some idea. =p
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So yeah, I think I might go with Abraxas and Slow Hand combo.
Now, these two aren't part of any HSS set, which I guess feature the Hum cancelling stuff. Is that gonna prove a big issue? (again, as previously said, I know nuffin about pickups).
I have an Abraxas/Slow Hand set - can't tell you what they sound like, because I haven't tried them yet!
As you say, you can't order them as a set through the online shop, so I ordered over the phone.
I chose the option of a reverse wound/reverse polarity middle pickup so I get hum-cancelling in positions 1, 2 and 4 on the five-way switch.
Also, looking at your guitar, you would need to order the Slow Hands "EMG-shaped", normal single-coils won't fit those pickup cavities.
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Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out
The EMG selcet single coils are often put in a body routing that doesn't have the little V shape on the pickups lower side
like this
(http://img.etonals.com/p/300/MC_SES.jpg)
whilst all the BKP single coils require that v to be cut into the body when being installed as they are like this
(http://www.axiomatic-music.co.uk/acatalog/DP117.jpg)
This could result in you needing to have some routing done to your guitar to fit these new pickups
The dimensions can be found here
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/downloads/dimensions/strats/strat_single_coil.pdf (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/downloads/dimensions/strats/strat_single_coil.pdf)
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So yeah, I think I might go with Abraxas and Slow Hand combo.
Now, these two aren't part of any HSS set, which I guess feature the Hum cancelling stuff. Is that gonna prove a big issue? (again, as previously said, I know nuffin about pickups).
I have an Abraxas/Slow Hand set - can't tell you what they sound like, because I haven't tried them yet!
As you say, you can't order them as a set through the online shop, so I ordered over the phone.
I chose the option of a reverse wound/reverse polarity middle pickup so I get hum-cancelling in positions 1, 2 and 4 on the five-way switch.
Also, looking at your guitar, you would need to order the Slow Hands "EMG-shaped", normal single-coils won't fit those pickup cavities.
Ofcourse, now that particular perdicament comes to light. I do hope ordering those Slow Hands "EMG-Shaped" as you put it won't add too much to the cost. Or if even possible, lest I'm screwed.
Also trying to find them dimensions on the EMGs aswell, guess I'll be needing that for the order. I'm going out on a limb and saying that the dimensions for EMG pickups are the same, no matter if I got what appears to be old Select pickups compared to new.
Also, EMG has their dimensions in inches rather than millimeter, which after a quick conversion doesn't match the Bare knuckle ones by about a mm or so. But I guess that's because of the conversion and so this is not a problem and that screw holes and whatnot is the same dimension, as is the size of the pickup itself, which means it's just the V shape that's the issue?
Probably a stupid question, but. Would appreciate some clarifications on this. I could ofcourse just go measure. But I don't trust me eyes.
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I can't speak from personal experience, but I believe the extra V-shaped "lip" is the only obstacle to fitting the pickups, all the other dimensions should be close enough to "standard".
BKP definitely used to offer an "EMG-shape" option for single-coils - I don't think there was any additional cost - but it may not still be available. Best to phone/email to confirm.
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I'll send em an Email to check. Not overly fond of phoning "overseas", specially with my cr@ppy english accent.
Cheers a bunch for pointing it out in the first place, I would not have thought of it otherwise and would be screeew-eeewd if I did order and couldn't install em.
So again, Cheers!
Now, the issue of finding the right color combination.. Tricky one.
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Zebra for the humbucker and black covers for the single coils :D
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Zebra for the humbucker and black covers for the single coils :D
Perhaps, does sound interesting, if going with Zebra there's pretty much only two ways to go, Black or cream =p
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In the process of ordering now. Yay. However, ran into a slight snag. Which is the spacing. I got no frikken idea.
I could ofcourse measure, but as the EMG selects ain't got no poles that's pretty hard, so I measured the distance between the Low E and High E string and it came up 51mm, which I guess is 50mm spacing on the humbucker. Is this the right way to go around it or am I once again, a nitwit?
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Sorry for bumping this again, but I have now ordered, and would like to sincerely thank everyone who has posted in this thread and for the invaluable advice they have given, you are truly an awesome bunch.
Pickups most likely won't arrive for a good while, but I am already excited beyond measure. Hopefully they're as good as you all make em out to be and that I didn't screw something up with the order and can't install em. (Yes, I did note the EMG shape thingy in the comment box when ordering, thx again for that btw)
So once more, Thank you all.
Nitwit signing out. (For now)
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Donīt forget to tell us about your experience with them once they arrive!