Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: eighteen-0-nine on July 06, 2012, 01:20:40 PM
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Hi all,
I'm about to buy a new Jet City amp, and I can get the 50w 2x12 combo for £350, or the 100w Head for £280, or the 50w Head for £250. But for the heads I'd have to buy a cab which could rench it up out of my price range.
How loud would the 50w combo be, and would it be suitable for gigging in pubs, clubs and venues?
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there's actually not much difference in volume between a 50w and 100w, the difference is in headroom, how loud the amp can go before the power section breaks up into overdrive. with a 100w this is later so therefore more clean volume, with a 50w this is earlier, so less clean volume.
A 50W head is probably way more than needed for pubs, as for clubs and venues, depends on the size of venue
bear in mind a lot of rock guys back used to use 50W heads over 100w heads for that very reason of earlier breakup. these days we have master volume amps and the current "in" thing seems to be daft amounts of preamp gain.
I like a healthy combo of both. however the thing with power amp breakup is there's a speaker interaction element as well. so cranking your amp with an attenuator will not yield the same results as cranking your amp without.
i would say if you need clean tones, at a pub level and small - medium club venue, 50W is still more than enough because mostly these days things are miked or Di'd direct to a mixing desk so the sound dude can carefully ensure he doesn't break the local councils decibel limits...
Could always get a lower wattage combo, they also are an "in" thing these days, low wattage rock amps.
last thing, with the amp your choosing a lot of people would say it's higher end brothers are voiced differently between 50 and 100w, 50 being more classic. don't hear it myself
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good points about the lower wattage amps. You can crank them better and loud enough for pub gigs, saw an amazing oasis cover band the other day and the 'Gem/Bonehead' was using a 15W blues junior with volume to not even half way and that thing sounded amazing and easily cut through over loud marshall stack bass cab, drums and another guitarist. For pub gigs I'd aim for 15-30W and for bigger venues mic it up.
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Thanks for the Advice :)
Would the combo be sufficiant though, compared to a separate head and cab?
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depends on what you end up going for. If you go the lower wattage route, then a combo would be fine.
If you go the 50W 2x12 route the combos can get big and heavy very fast. i find a separate head and speakers, while weighing more in total, easier to handle individually. and a lot of times venues have some form of backline, even if it's just a f*cked up scuffed old 4/2x12. in that case all you need to do is take the head. you can also get low wattage heads voiced for high gain rock these days too.
Whether it's a combo or head and cab makes no odds to the volume, it does to the projection, but by and large, miking up tends to eliminate projection issues anyway, because the sound engineers sticking it thru the PA
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Well the 50w Head is £250 an the combo £350. Can I get a good 2x12 for £100? If so, any advice or suggestions?
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You'll struggle to get a new 2x12 for £100, but used you might just make it. The trouble is, two used 12" Celestion speakers will cost £100 on their own.
Personally, I'd get the 50w head and save up a bit more cash to get a decent 2x12.
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buy the combo, you won't get a decent 2x12 cab unless someone's about to get the bailiffs around and wants to get rid sharpish. Only problem with combos is the weight and difficulty in transporting/
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But would a 50w combo sound the same as a 50w head with a 2x12 cab? To say it's the same amp, that is.
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A 50W amp is cheaper to revalve too.
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But would a 50w combo sound the same as a 50w head with a 2x12 cab? To say it's the same amp, that is.
not different enough that you'd notice. depends on whether its open or closed back. best thing to do is try both setups
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Another thing I'm worried about is price. I'm buying from Thomann and they are really cheap. For example, Thomann sell the 100w head for £280, but here in the UK, theyre £499.
Anyone got any advice about this?
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is that £280 inc shipping? if not, you might find that price increases dramatically
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Free Shipping. Just checked
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Out of those choices, I'd personally go for a 50W combo. I gigged with a 50W 1X12 combo for years. Even at 50W though, it was way too loud for most of the pubs/clubs we played. If I was about to start gigging I'd personally be looking at 18W (I don't crave too much crystal clean headroom though :lol:).
I'd agree with the weight thing, though. I have a bad back now - possibly due to that amp :lol:
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just bear in mind with the combos, one of the 50 watt combos is based on the preamp in the heads and one isn't (based on the lucky 13 maybe, which is a completely different amp, i think... never tried it, though). make sure you get the right one if you do decide on the combo.
regarding thomann, i've always found thomann pretty good and their low prices normally are just a good deal (as long as you're not buying b-stock stuff, never bought anything b-stock).
so odds are there's nothing to worry about (though bear in mind you'll need an EU-UK adaptor- don't buy the thomann one, it rarely actually fits the type of plugs fitted to amps... amazon does ones which work for about £4 for two of them).
touch wood. :oops:
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just bear in mind with the combos, one of the 50 watt combos is based on the preamp in the heads and one isn't (based on the lucky 13 maybe, which is a completely different amp, i think... never tried it, though). make sure you get the right one if you do decide on the combo.
regarding thomann, i've always found thomann pretty good and their low prices normally are just a good deal (as long as you're not buying b-stock stuff, never bought anything b-stock).
so odds are there's nothing to worry about (though bear in mind you'll need an EU-UK adaptor- don't buy the thomann one, it rarely actually fits the type of plugs fitted to amps... amazon does ones which work for about £4 for two of them).
touch wood. :oops:
What do you mean about the preamp thing? as in one is based and one isn't?
Also, don't amps usually run off kettle leads anyways? So it would just be a case of swapping. Normally when I get an amp I usually get both the UK and Euro plugs.
I just want to try and leave no stone unturned.
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i thought the JCA20 was based on the lucky 13? and the 50 and 100 based on the Hotrod
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i thought the JCA20 was based on the lucky 13? and the 50 and 100 based on the Hotrod
Oh that's what was meant. It will definitely be the 50/100 watt. Has anyone had experience with Jet City amps?
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I had the 20w head
much better built than asia made vox amos and some of the other big brands
I'd get the 100w head for that price, though
you can always run it at 50w by pulling two tubes out
a 100w head putting 50w still sounds bigger than a 50w, as it must have bulkier transformers
I'd buy this and a harley benton 2x12 with v30's, which is probably the cheapest well built cab with stock good speakers in the market
I love 50w amps, though, and would take the 50w head if it was cheaper
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Just went and looked at JCA, Dave_mc is absolutely right. The one of the 50W combos is based off the HR50 and one is based off the lucky 13
the JCA5012 is 2 channels with shared eq and separate channel/masters, based off the HR50, the JCA5212RC is 2 channels with separate eq and based of the clean circuit of the lucky 13 with, as far as i can tell, same OD channel as the JCA5012.
I guess the JCA5212RC has a spanking clean type sound, and the JCA5012 has the regular clean to overdrive sound on channel 1.
I've heard good things bout the 13's clean channel, but never really had an issue geting a clean sound out of HR50+ so i guess what you'd be paying for, in all practicality, with the RC is a separate eq on the clean side. oh, and a reverb too
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Thanks for that. I didn't even realise there was 2 different amps. I'll have to do a bit more research into this. The idea of the clean circuit definitely sounds appealing, but I'd really want that lead sound that Soldano is famous for, too.
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ok so, been looking back thru your posting history to try and get an idea of what kind of music you're actually trying to play, look s like you're into your metal.
Think carefully about buying a jet city. They are stonking amps yes, they kick the arse of most things in their price range yes, but am not sure the lineage is right for you.
As we all know JCA are, by and large, soldano designed with a few of the other independent manufacturers (THD) contributing some models. Soldano are one of the archetypal high gain amps, yes, and JCA do the best approximation of their sound on the market, in fact they get quite close, they just miss out some of the subtleties of the sound, but we're talking a mass produced amp at a fraction of the cost so no complaints.
Here's the thing, Soldano's can do metal very well, in fact they can destroy most other amps out there, but what they don't do, or at least are not voiced for, is scooped out metal of the kind that seems to be the fashion at the moment. what most metallers forget is the scooped sound they hear on records a) isn't as scooped as they think it is, and b) is the result of much production tweaking and, these days, more than a few plugins.. so a lot of people that buy soldanos or there derivatives are disappointed because it's not the sound in their heads. but thats because they're not listening to them right in a band context,and when they get them to the rehearsal room, they're scooping them and taking all the mids out, which is where a guitar lives.
they have a lot of preamp gain, but not the stupid amounts that end up as an over compressed mush that brands like krank are capable of. they are a very mid crunch voiced amp and as a result are very unforgiving. if you make mistakes, if your playing is sloppy, it won't get hidden behind a bunch of compression and harmonics. not to say it's not rich sounding or doesn't sustain, it does both in spades., but it's also very open and articulate and very touch responsive. you hear playing dynamics, you hear string separation, you hear all the notes in a chord, and also the notes in the run you just fluffed. Having mine, made me a better player, but i promise you i sounded like sh*t for the longest time.
It also doesn't have a huge booming low end, it has a tight percussive one.
If you need a quick fix, modern voiced, uber pre amp gain machine. this is not the amp for you. If you want a timeless voiced, agressive, responsive open, articulate, high gain bugger that makes you work hard to get the best out of it, the best being far better than anything else out there in the production world, then buy a soldano or it's baby brother here.
Look at the soldano website and see who's used them. always suprises me, given the reputation soldano has, the amount of guys who use them and aren't known for high gain craziness. says a lot i think
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You described exactly what I'm looking for then. I'm not going to be buying this for the typical 6505 Modern Metal. Going to be using this to write and play actual songs, as to the sheer brootal riffage. I'll just have to decide which of the 2 is best for me.
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Had a proper look into this now. The one based on the lucky 13 doesn't look the ticket for me as you need a distortion pedal for lead tones. The other Jet City looks the ticket though. Going to go and play them both in Manchester on Monday though.
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Thomann recently had a big price drop on all the Jet City stuff - the Picovalve which used to be around £280-300 is now £155 and a lot of the cabs are around half the price they used to be.
I wonder if they're about to be discontinued or something (as the entire Blackheart amp line now seem to be.)
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Had a proper look into this now. The one based on the lucky 13 doesn't look the ticket for me as you need a distortion pedal for lead tones. The other Jet City looks the ticket though. Going to go and play them both in Manchester on Monday though.
to be fair, the crunch channel, which is what the 1st lower gain channel on most traditional soldano amps is, isn't as low gain as you think. It's more than capable of doing JCM 800 type levels of gain. and nothing wrong with a good quality pedal for pushing something over the edge.
That being said, the channel can also do clean fairly well (not glassy or anything) so i don't think there's much to be gained from having the more expensive amp when the less expensive one suits you better.
I know Soldano will mod a lucky 13 to have the full Soldano lead channel over the crunch, so it's clean/lead instead of clean/crunch. And i know JCA were modding some of their amps last year, maybe the do something similar.
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(a) What do you mean about the preamp thing? as in one is based and one isn't?
(b) Also, don't amps usually run off kettle leads anyways? So it would just be a case of swapping. Normally when I get an amp I usually get both the UK and Euro plugs.
I just want to try and leave no stone unturned.
(a) yeah, as in they're different amps
(b) good point, that'd work too.
Just went and looked at JCA, Dave_mc is absolutely right. The one of the 50W combos is based off the HR50 and one is based off the lucky 13
the JCA5012 is 2 channels with shared eq and separate channel/masters, based off the HR50, the JCA5212RC is 2 channels with separate eq and based of the clean circuit of the lucky 13 with, as far as i can tell, same OD channel as the JCA5012.
I guess the JCA5212RC has a spanking clean type sound, and the JCA5012 has the regular clean to overdrive sound on channel 1.
I've heard good things bout the 13's clean channel, but never really had an issue geting a clean sound out of HR50+ so i guess what you'd be paying for, in all practicality, with the RC is a separate eq on the clean side. oh, and a reverb too
from what i hear, the lucky 13-based one doesn't get that heavy. Only soldano i've tried is the avenger, though (and i haven't tried any of the jet cities).
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Here's the thing,
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they have a lot of preamp gain, but not the stupid amounts that end up as an over compressed mush that brands like krank are capable of. they are a very mid crunch voiced amp and as a result are very unforgiving. if you make mistakes, if your playing is sloppy, it won't get hidden behind a bunch of compression and harmonics. not to say it's not rich sounding or doesn't sustain, it does both in spades., but it's also very open and articulate and very touch responsive. you hear playing dynamics, you hear string separation, you hear all the notes in a chord, and also the notes in the run you just fluffed. Having mine, made me a better player, but i promise you i sounded like sh*t for the longest time.
(...)
Never played a Soldano, but my new amp (custom made by a friend) 's "crunch" chanel is based on a mix of the astroverb and SLO, and the above is exactly how I would describe it - possibly unwanted side effects included, and being fed with BKPs doesn't help :lol:. Well, being able to play overly distorded minor 9+ chords and hear each and every single note (in 2 guitars band with a heavy rythm section) is quite cool, but you have to accept hearing all your mistakes and floppiness too, since you can no longer hide behind the bluriness.
wrt/ the 50/100w thing: my own amp is a 20 watters (exactly 18w straight clean on the oscillo), done three gigs with it, one rather big outdoor stage, one small/mid-sized indoor stage and one small pub, and I definitly don't have a need for more power - for the record, even for the largest outdoor stage I had to roll down the master a wee bit.
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50w is more than adequate. I use a 60w 1X12 combo and it works perfectly well for the pubs we usually play. Yesterday I played an outdoor gig and they were complaining I was too loud at the other end of the field and I was only a 1/4 of the way up on the master volume and the channel volume had barely moved either. Same thing happened last year when I played in the staff band at the school where I teach. We were in a hall with 600 kids in it and even when I used to use a 40w 1X12 I still had to turn it down. For me, I've never yet come across a venue where a 50w 1X12 isn't perfectly adequate and if I did need more, I'd just mic it.
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I've been gigging the Jet City 50H and matching 2x12 cab for a while and its perfect for me. I like the fact it is easy to carry as it is in two parts and it had all the sounds I like to use live.
I revalved mine with decent preamp and power amp valves and it made a ton of difference.