Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: nightflame159 on July 07, 2012, 03:51:41 PM
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Hey guys! I have a beautifull PRS custom 24 with the usual mahogany neck/body,maple top but this one have an ebony fretboard so the tone is punchier, its got a fast attack and a spanky top wich i like(acousticaly) but i dont hear it in the stock pickups.They sound too vintage and noisy when i crank the gain.
As this guitar is super easy to play and it got 24 frets, i want it to be my shred guitar. I play mainly 80's stuff, Dokken, Ratt, Iron Maiden, Ozzy, Megadeth, Metalica, Paul Gilbert...i like my tone to be clear with good top end and searing solos but still i want a bit of warmth to it.I want tight but not ultra death metal tight.And i like my lead to be wet and smooth(not too stiff or raw sounding) I play thru an Egnater mod 50 with el34 for the marshally stuff and i have a Mesa Mark IIC+ for the thrash metal stuff.Both amp played thru scumback j75lhdc speakers(they are warm and have a good 80's mid to them with smooth top end)
Pickups i tried in different guitars include: Tone zone(too muddy/thick didnt like it at all) EMG 81(good for downtuned stuff but in std tuning,way too stiff unatural sounding,sounds like a chainsaw) Emg 85(liked the top end and warmth of it but was too thick in the low end/low mids) Duncan JB(my favorite so far but there is someting i dont like in the midrange) So it could be something in between the emg 85 and JB, Id like the emg 85 to be less thick and less modern but keep the high mids and clear top end.
Heres some lead/rythm tone that i like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98mBitgGUxI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEMaEaZA8D8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_DFsM-w-xw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo5ZnwQy0Pk
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How many members will vote for the Holydiver? Probably 90% 8) at least.
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How many members will vote for the Holydiver? Probably 90% 8) at least.
Count me in to that 90%
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I considered the Diver but all the clips ive seen didnt had the clear top end that i like, it seemed too rounded polite top end to my taste...look at the links i posted youll have a good idea of what i like.
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The HD is more balanced than most other branded pickups. There is plenty of high end in the HD, plenty of mids and tightish bottom end. The thing that bothers me about the CU24 over the CU22, is the honky low end. The HFS bring out that natural honky tone that i am not too keen on plus some very loose bottom end.
That Miller dude is ace, i don't think the HD would be a million miles from that. My other fav is the VHII.
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Ok so the Holy diver would probably be the best bet. Did any of you compared it with a suhr aldrich? I never tried the suhr but i always liked Doug aldrich tone...also wich neck pickup would fit best with the Holy diver? I tend to like clear hot paff in the neck...the duncan 59 i think is too boomy and so far i liked the air norton i had in an ibanez the best.
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The Air Norton was not a bad neck pickup, too bad it's always paired with the Tone Zone. The Mule is the best PAF style neck that BK do, but not totally sure if it pairs perfectly with the HD. Maybe the Abraxas neck would pair with the HD better.
The Aldrich Suhr pickup seems to be swapped out on many guitars. Can't comment as i have never tried one.
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Ok so the Holy diver would probably be the best bet. Did any of you compared it with a suhr aldrich? I never tried the suhr but i always liked Doug aldrich tone...also wich neck pickup would fit best with the Holy diver? I tend to like clear hot paff in the neck...the duncan 59 i think is too boomy and so far i liked the air norton i had in an ibanez the best.
The Holy Diver almost nails Doug aldrichs tone with a bit of Tweaking. It's much less muddy than the Suhr Aldrich pickup though. Doug Aldrichs tone is one of my favourites and it's what I asked for when I wanted pickups. I was recommended HDs and rightly so. They rock!
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Holydiver would do what you want for sure but if you need it with a touch more aggression and tightness, get the Miracle Man. Both are awesome.
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Im really torn between the holydiver and miracleman right now the clips ive heard of the miracleman i liked the tone but i didnt had good experience with ceramic magnets..the emg 81 i tried was stiff and cold and i see the miracleman is supossed to sound like the emg but is it warmer and less surgical? Also wich neck would go well with the miracleman if i go with it?
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Im really torn between the holydiver and miracleman right now the clips ive heard of the miracleman i liked the tone but i didnt had good experience with ceramic magnets..the emg 81 i tried was stiff and cold and i see the miracleman is supossed to sound like the emg but is it warmer and less surgical? Also wich neck would go well with the miracleman if i go with it?
Although the miracle man is a great pickup I honestly think that the HD would be the perfect fit for what you've described, as do most other users here. Bare in mind that most of the clips of the HD are extremely poor and a real injustice to it. Often with too much gain to be plausible for any pickup or just recorded very badly.
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The Miracle Man is NOT cold and too surgical but I do understand your fears as the same thing put me off a Miracle Man for a long time. I've owned both pickups and I also have a PRS CU 24, albeit an SE version, so my own experiences seem to be really relevant here. I started by putting a Holydiver in the bridge of my Jackson Soloist (maple neck-thru with alder wings) and here is the review I wrote about it:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24376.0
Obviously I was very impressed; in fact, I was so impressed I decided I wanted to put a Holydiver in the bridge of my PRS and sounded Tim out about it. To quote his reply: 'I love the idea of a Holydiver in the PRS' and so it seemed to make a lot of sense. I was VERY tempted to keep the Holydiver in both the Jackson and PRS but eventually decided that it would make more sense to give each guitar a distinct character but I didn't want to move too far away from the Holydiver tone. I asked for something that was warm, thick and fluid like the Holydiver but tighter in the bass, more screaming in the highs and with a bit more aggression. The unanimous response was Miracle Man so I decided to take the plunge and that's exactly what the pickup is. The review I wrote of the Miracle Man is probably a bit further down but here's a link anyway:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28004.0
Both will do exactly what you're looking for but the Holydiver will give you more versatility while the Miracle Man will give you a more Metal feel. As for a neck pickup to go with them; when I talked to Tim about putting a Holydiver in the bridge of my PRS, I asked for a neck suggestion that would give me a kind of Dave Murray neck tone but from the early Maiden albums when he was using PAF pups and I'm guessing you may be after something similar. Tim said that in many ways the Cold Sweat was the obvious choice but his personal preference was the Emerald neck as that would nail the required tone and give a tremendous amount of versatility, especially when paired with a hotter bridge pickup like the Holydiver. I see no reason why it shouldn't work equally well with the Miracle Man.
So, either the Holydiver or Miracle Man will be awesome in the bridge and put an Emerald in the neck 8)
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I would be the 10% if you weren't complaining about something being "too vintagey"
I was gonna recommend the NECK cold sweat in the BRIDGE position
one of the best lead pickups I've tried in the bridge position and definitely the clearest and most articulate one
sounds a lot like Paul Gilbert's work with his main PGM guitars but with all the BKP mojo
second "vintagey" option would be the VHII, which is hotter a little more scooped
BUT, you want something hot, so the holy diver is hard to beat
being a JB fan that's missing "something", I bet you'll find it in the holy diver
the NECK miracle man, which is the same as the bridge MM but with an alnico magnet, is also a great lead pickup in the bridge position
quite fluid and thick, like the holy diver, but even fatter and little more modern sounding
a bit like the emg 85, but no near as hot and way more organic
the bridge ceramic miracle man is amazing for leads, but sometimes gets trebly in the higher strings
I love the clarity on faster shredding and thickness on lower strings
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I was also one of the 90% for the Holydiver but if you fear that it will be too polite, consider the Rebel Yell - lots of mids and bright cut. Another good option would be the Miracle Man - same tonal color but more aggression in the lows and highs compared to the HD.
Cheers Stephan
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I think im gravitating towards the miracleman bridge with the vhii neck..would they go whell together? If down the road i dont like the MM i could always send it back and get the holy diver. Another set that caught my curiosity is the Emerald set...i like the eq, it seems to cut and be clear but could it handle 80's metal tone? I have a boost i can use, as long as it stay clear and tight enough...
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I think im gravitating towards the miracleman bridge with the vhii neck..would they go whell together? If down the road i dont like the MM i could always send it back and get the holy diver. Another set that caught my curiosity is the Emerald set...i like the eq, it seems to cut and be clear but could it handle 80's metal tone? I have a boost i can use, as long as it stay clear and tight enough...
The VHII doesn't sound like a very good match with the MM, to be honest. If you were to get the MM bridge then the Cold Sweat neck or MM neck would be the most ideal match. The emerald might work too, though.
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I have a PRS Custom 22, without tremolo, and I've tried a couple of BKPs - Nailbomb bridge, Cold Sweat (both neck and bridge), and Holydiver set.
Less versatile combo - Holydivers, but they nail 80's rock\metal tones perfectly, and I haven't found them smooth as described, thay are pretty midrange-agressive pups, focused and dry.
I tried to dail right height to make them "smooth and fat" but haven't succeded yet.
Crawler in my Suhr is much more smooth, thick and less cutting, actually I like it more than Diver (also I like Suhr more than PRS, he-he) :lol:
Currently I have them in my PRS because I need a good cut through the mix on leads (we have another two guitarists in the band, and also a keyboard player).
I play heavy progressive rock, close to metal.
But my favorite for neck PU would be still Cold Sweat, on of my favorite pup's ever.
Nailbomb also great pickup, but more modern voiced (say, modern, new-metal) than CS or HD.
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I have a PRS Custom 22, without tremolo, and I've tried a couple of BKPs - Nailbomb bridge, Cold Sweat (both neck and bridge), and Holydiver set.
Less versatile combo - Holydivers, but they nail 80's rock\metal tones perfectly, and I haven't found them smooth as described, thay are pretty midrange-agressive pups, focused and dry.
I tried to dail right height to make them "smooth and fat" but haven't succeded yet.
Crawler in my Suhr is much more smooth, thick and less cutting, actually I like it more than Diver (also I like Suhr more than PRS, he-he) :lol:
Currently I have them in my PRS because I need a good cut through the mix on leads (we have another two guitarists in the band, and also a keyboard player).
I play heavy progressive rock, close to metal.
But my favorite for neck PU would be still Cold Sweat, on of my favorite pup's ever.
Nailbomb also great pickup, but more modern voiced (say, modern, new-metal) than CS or HD.
I don't know what it is with your set of holy divers but mine, and seemingly almost everyone else's, are certainly not dry or mid-range agressive. The Cold Sweat and nailbomb are both reasonably scooped pickups which which may accentuate the mid range of the holy diver to you but it is actually quite balanced. The nailbomb is far more aggressive. Also, I find it hard to believe that the holy diver is less versatile than the nailbomb, I know that there are numerous users on the forum who would argue against that.
I'm not dismissing your experience with certain pickups or what you have said, I just believe that there is something in your rig, whether it be amp or guitar or both, that is giving you different results to the ones that people normal describe getting...
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the diver I had in 3 guitars wasn't that aggressive, but the other I had in my '73 lp custom was quite aggressive in the upper mids and sounded definitely drier and tighter
they both were uncovered and read 16k
guess that was the guitar, not the pickup
my lp custom has a very thin neck (thinner than today's slim taper 60's neck), ebony board and a quite dark and dense body
it has a deeper and more aggressive tone than most les pauls I played
"modern" les pauls (anything post-norlin) are usually middier, more resonant, little less punchy on the bass and not as spanky on the picking attack
koreans/chinese are usually less evertyhing... less resonance, less middy, less bassy, less bright...
but that changes for each guitar, so that kind of comparison can get quite messy, specially considering the pickup height relationship with the particular guitar resonance...
there are plenty of dry sounding clips of the holy diver out there
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I'm here with Eric with no offence to the ohers, but I had this pu in three different guitars - PRS Custom 22, Fender Strat Plus and Washburn WI66, and on each of them HD shows pretty the same character - dry, focused, aggressive. Maybe it's perfect guitar for shred, but for tasty, thick leads I would take Crawler anyday - much richer, less aggressive, less focused and scooped but with nice roar, which I like.
My HD is covered, don't if that will make a difference.
As for my gear - it's pretty simple, I don't like pedals a lot, only delay, rest I try to achieve through my amp - Marshall JVM 205, or Peavey Classic 30. Sometimes I use external OD - Tonefreak Abunai 2, to saturate sound a bit.
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Interesting. My Holydiver was in the Jackson and I loved it because it was smooth and thick but with a bit of aggression. I've heard some great clips of a Holydiver in a Les Paul too so I see no reason why it wouldn't work in a PRS, especially as Tim thought it was a great choice. As for the Crawler; I've always liked the clips I've heard but assumed it would be too dark in mahogany and perhaps a tad too tame and vintage for my tastes. Having said that, my PRS is hardly excessively dark so I can believe it could work. The only other pickup I've ever really considered for the PRS is an Abraxas.
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Ok guys thx a lot for your help! I think i decided to go with the miracleman set. I have 2 last questions
1- is it easy to make it sounds like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnERleA2DuE
because ive hear some really good clips of it and on some other it sounds way more brutal and death metal...wich is not really what i want but this youtube clips is pretty much the kind of tone im looking for.
2- is the neck miracleman anything like an emg85 in the neck? Cauz emg85 in neck is way too thick and boomy to my taste...i want a clear paf style neck...maybe a nailbomb? The coldsweat neck is not really my thing...kind of not scooped and paff enough.
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Ok guys thx a lot for your help! I think i decided to go with the miracleman set. I have 2 last questions
1- is it easy to make it sounds like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnERleA2DuE
because ive hear some really good clips of it and on some other it sounds way more brutal and death metal...wich is not really what i want but this youtube clips is pretty much the kind of tone im looking for.
2- is the neck miracleman anything like an emg85 in the neck? Cauz emg85 in neck is way too thick and boomy to my taste...i want a clear paf style neck...maybe a nailbomb? The coldsweat neck is not really my thing...kind of not scooped and paff enough.
depends on how you use it
it smooths out and cleans up quite well in the right amps and settings
the neck model sounds a bit boomy for my tastes, at lest in les pauls
it sounds amazing in the bridge position, though
quite different from the actual bridge model (they are the same, with different magnets)
it's middier, fatter and smoother than the bridge model
really thick lead tone
the nailbomb neck is quite scooped and high output
very trebly and focused, though
quite different from the cold sweat, which is less aggressive and more midrangy
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I've heard some really good clips of it and on some other it sounds way more brutal and death metal...wich is not really what I want
I haven't found the Miracle Man to be particularly brutal or Death Metal at all otherwise I wouldn't be using it. That was more my experience with the A-Bomb. The Miracle Man has aggression but it's controlled and not OTT at all. It always makes me smile when I play it and I've heard the same response from others. :D
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As for the Crawler; I've always liked the clips I've heard but assumed it would be too dark in mahogany and perhaps a tad too tame and vintage for my tastes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZtPULUgWso
Too "vintage" you say? 8) :lol: