Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Eyes Wide Shut on July 11, 2012, 08:59:50 PM
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I currently have a custom guitar made from a thin mahogany body, maple neck & rosewood fretboard and I'm looking for a set of pickups to cover bands such as Bullet For My Valentine, Trivium, Killswitch Engage, All That Remains...the typical Metalcore band. I currently play through a Peavey 5150 60w combo.
Now I know the default would probably be Black Hawks, but I'd like to weigh up my options first as I'm not keen on the design. And regarding the Aftermaths and Painkillers, I found them slightly dry.
I heard the Miracle Man & Holy Diver may be an option as I read on the forum that someone said they're great for Bullet For My Valentine music. I then read a Miracle Man review that really turned me onto that, but I remember someone saying that it's a pickup better suited to single guitar bands, whereas the Holy Diver's uppermids help in that dual guitar area.
Help is always greatly appreciated.
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At least some of those bands have used both Seymour Duncan JB and EMG pickups so it depends. The Black Hawks could certainly be good but so could a Holydiver and Miracle Man. With the Holydiver you'll need an overdrive to get to the more extreme tones you want so I'd say Miracle Man all the way. It may well have been my review you read and I can tell you for sure that it is NOT just for single guitar bands. I play in two bands at the moment and we have two guitarists in both of them and the Miracle Man cuts through like a hot knife through butter. It's awesome.
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Yeah it was actually.
How do you compare the MM to EMGs (if you've played them?) Obviously they'll be better, but how are they better than EMGs?
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My experience with EMG is limited and I may be a bit biased as I don't really get on with actives but I'll do my best.
I find the EMG pups to be rather sterile and lifeless whereas the Miracle Man is warm, organic and full of character. I always think of it like playing a modelling amp (EMG) and then suddenly changing to a full valve amp (BKP). I also find the Miracle Man to be much thicker and more fluid sounding. Bass notes have real body to them that isn't quite there with EMG while the highs really scream while retaining some serious weight to the notes. To me, they represent the ideal pickup for what you want. They have the warmth and smoothness of the Holydiver (so you're covered for when bands like BFMV used the JB) but also with tightness and aggression (so you're covered for when they moved to EMG). A Miracle Man is like having the few bits you might like about EMG blended with all the awesome qualities you get with the Holydiver. The tone you're after is grounded in 80's Metal but with a modern edge to it and to me, that's a Miracle Man. Thinking of it like a passive EMG doesn't even begin to do justice to what this pickup can do.
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Sounds perfect for me that! But I'd really love to know how they compare to the Black Hawks, if anyone can chime in?
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I had a kse style band when I bought my first bkp (holy diver)
tried the miracle man in the same guitar months later with the same band
both pickups did a great job
the diver is a bit more boost dependent, though
the miracle man is tighter and punchier, the diver is fuller on the mids and smoother on top
both do great fat pinch harmonics and fluid leads
they sound nothing like each other, though, but they work great for the same thing in different ways
tried the cold sweat after the miracle man, and actually liked it better than the MM, but for ealier 90's thrash metal, specially Pantera and some old Testament and Exodus
for the modern stuff, the miracle man and holy diver are hard to beat
the single guitar vs dual guitar thing is bullshitee, in my opinion, unless you're plugging your pickup straight into some sort of toneless speaker bobbin
peaveys are very mid heavy amps and usually combined with mid heavy speakers, mid heavy overdrive pedals, mid heavy guitars, etc
also had emgs in that guitar
emg 81 sounded dry and toneless in the bridge
I liked the emg 85 in the bridge, but it was too fat and round
the miracle man sounds quite different
it's punchy in the bass and low mids like 85, but not as overpowering, and the upper mids are more controlled
on fast shredding, it sounds a lot like the emg 81, specially on the clarity aspect, but it's warmer and quite toneful
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I'm really interested in the Miracle Man. I'm just trying to figure out which one between that and the Black Hawk. It's a hard choice.
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The Black Hawk crossed my mind too before I went with the Miracle Man. I went with the Miracle Man partly because I had a lot more information on it and partly because I'm not keen on the look of the Black Hawk. I have no regrets. For what I use it for I can't conceive of the Black Hawk being better in any way. Perhaps the Black Hawk is better with cleaner and jazzy sounds but as I'm not using that guitar for those tones it really doesn't matter. I have no direct experience of the Black Hawk but like me, for what you want it for, I can't see it being an improvement on the Miracle Man. That pickup really is perfect for what you want.
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I have Blackhawks and I think the Miracle Man would fit those bands sounds better. The Blackhawks don't really have an 80's roots feel to me.
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Thinking about it actually, do you think the Miracle Man would be a good choice if I'm also delving into bands like UFO, Michael Schenker, 80s Metal bands in general, etc? But metalcore will be my number 1 choice. I just want a thick lead tone, as to a sharp one. I want notes to have weight.
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YES, YES, YES.
80's Metal is my primary home, hence my love of the Holydiver. The Miracle Man maintains a kind of 80's Metal feel to it but with a bit of extra punch and aggression. My band plays UFO and Schenker as well as other 80's Metal bands and it works beautifully but because of the extra tightness and aggression, it will also go on to do BFMV and Trivium, especially because their sound is so obviously heavily influenced by 80's Metal. I know it's a big decision and I'm the last one to talk because I'm usually hopeless at deciding on a pickup but you're honestly starting to over think it. The only exception to my usual hesitancy was the Miracle Man and life was a lot less stressful as a result. I asked about what I wanted, the overwhelming view was Miracle Man and I bought it - simples. One of the best decisions I've ever made. What you're after sounds VERY similar to what I was after and the overwhelming view here is that you need a Miracle Man.
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YES, YES, YES.
80's Metal is my primary home, hence my love of the Holydiver. The Miracle Man maintains a kind of 80's Metal feel to it but with a bit of extra punch and aggression. My band plays UFO and Schenker as well as other 80's Metal bands and it works beautifully but because of the extra tightness and aggression, it will also go on to do BFMV and Trivium, especially because their sound is so obviously heavily influenced by 80's Metal. I know it's a big decision and I'm the last one to talk because I'm usually hopeless at deciding on a pickup but you're honestly starting to over think it. The only exception to my usual hesitancy was the Miracle Man and life was a lot less stressful as a result. I asked about what I wanted, the overwhelming view was Miracle Man and I bought it - simples. One of the best decisions I've ever made. What you're after sounds VERY similar to what I was after and the overwhelming view here is that you need a Miracle Man.
Miracle Man it is then.
What you reckon for the neck? I do like the sound of the Miracle Man neck for pure shred, but I fancy something more versatile that can also play cleans. But again having a great articulate attack, for pure shred :)
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The Cold Sweat is the usual choice but Emerald also makes an incredibly versatile alternative. Both are fantastic neck pickups.
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Thought I would resurrect this thread since it addresses my situation so well:
Looking to float between 80's Hard Rock: Ratt (DiMartini), Whitesnake (Vandenberg, Campbell years), White Lion, EVH etc and current metal: Zakk, KSE, Unearth, Disturbed, Slipknot etc. I love Dan Donegan's sound particularly (Disturbed).
So after reading this thread it looks like I should go MM in the bridge to get the heavy stuff down and also lean into the 80's feel (with a bit of extra oomph I'm guessing).
For the neck, it looks like ones from another sets are being recommended. Is there a reason the MM neck is not the easy choice to pair with the MM bridge?
What would you recommend for my situation? I'd probably split the neck and use it for cleans/lighter stuff as well as soloing the heavier styles.
As a side - these will be put into a to-be-built Warmoth Tele HXH setup with trem. Thinking alder body/maple neck/asthetically pleasing fretboard, but could be swayed on the wood types (will post in appropriate forum once pickups locked down).
Thanks all.
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So after reading this thread it looks like I should go MM in the bridge to get the heavy stuff down and also lean into the 80's feel (with a bit of extra oomph I'm guessing).
That is the perfect way to describe it based on my experience. A lot of what you mention suggests a Holydiver and I have one of those in a PRS and love it so for my Jackson I wanted the same basic 80's Metal feel but with a bit more aggression in the bottom end and slightly more screaming highs. That's exactly what the Miracle Man gave me. It's still quite a smooth pickup with a surprisingly warm and organic feel but it also gives a very serious nod towards more modern Metal styles. Having said that, the Holydiver will also do what you're after, especially with an overdrive pedal and be a bit more versatile but the bottom line is, both are excellent; it just depends if your priority is smooth or aggressive.
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So after reading this thread it looks like I should go MM in the bridge to get the heavy stuff down and also lean into the 80's feel (with a bit of extra oomph I'm guessing).
That is the perfect way to describe it based on my experience. A lot of what you mention suggests a Holydiver and I have one of those in a PRS and love it so for my Jackson I wanted the same basic 80's Metal feel but with a bit more aggression in the bottom end and slightly more screaming highs. That's exactly what the Miracle Man gave me. It's still quite a smooth pickup with a surprisingly warm and organic feel but it also gives a very serious nod towards more modern Metal styles. Having said that, the Holydiver will also do what you're after, especially with an overdrive pedal and be a bit more versatile but the bottom line is, both are excellent; it just depends if your priority is smooth or aggressive.
Assuming you are talking neck here? Maybe I should go MM/split HD to give me more options and allow me to lighten it up a bit when I want.
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No, actually I'm talking about the bridge pickups. Most people go for different pickups in the neck because they're looking for different things from that position. I like the Holydiver and Miracle Man for the bridge because it suits what I play but for the neck I like something that's more versatile and offers a more creamy lead, a bit like Dave Murray. The Cold Sweat and the Emerald will do that so they're my favourite neck pickups.
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I have no experience with the Miracle Man neck. Spec wise it looks like it has loads of power which would lend itself well to soloing in the upper register of the fretboard.
Cold Sweat neck is a nice pickup, very articulate and singing, can do cleans well, too. I have one in my PRS for a few years now and still no intention to change it. In another guitar however it was too muddy on the low strings (sounded fine on the treble strings though). I replaced it with an Abraxas neck which is still in that guitar together with a Cold Sweat bridge. It has no problem keeping up in volume with the Cold Sweat bridge. So I guess Abraxas neck would also be a valid choice.
I also like the VHII neck, a bit more vintage feel, a bit more output than the Cold Sweat neck but also very articulate and singing. For cleans I may prefer the Cold Sweat.
I once got the recommendation from Tim to try the Crawler neck (because I had one) with the Miracle Man bridge as he said that would work well, too. Never got around to try that but from an output perspective I think there would not be any problem since I tried it once paired with an Alnico Nailbomb and it had no problem keeping up with that one.
So the best thing to do would be to contact the BKP team, discuss your tonal goals with them and consider their recommendation. In fact many lower output pickups work in the neck position due to the increased string movement.
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks guys for the input.
I'll give the BKP team a shout and see what they say. Will post their thoughts here in case others are in making a similar decision.
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So after some back and forth with Ben from BKP, and some hemming and hawing, and some more hemming, and relistening to the clips more...
I'm going to go HD bridge, VHii neck.
HD should give me enough metal when driven but not overpower the VH, and of course knock the 80s metal sound out of the park.
The VH will give me more versatility, especially split, as well as handle the genres that I mostly play. Hoping to make this rig a bit of a quiver killer since I dont have the or funds to have guitars for different sounds.