Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: wfe06 on July 25, 2012, 01:52:09 PM
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Hello fellow BKP-lovers,
I'm a new user here... decided I'm gonna invest in a BKP set soon. But I have no idea what to choose! There are way too many choices and they all seem great.
I'd like to replace the 500T and 496R on my '05 Gibson Les Paul Classic with something clearer and more versatile. I play styles that range from classic rock (ex: Slash) to hard rock (ex: Black Stone Cherry) to alternative metal (ex: Alter Bridge).
So basically I need a nice clean tone - mostly on the neck pickup - and a gorgeous, clear distortion that shouldn't be muddy. I tend to use the bridge pickup for soloing most of the time. What do you guys suggest?
PS: I'm open to mixing different pickups in the neck and bridge position... i.e. they don't have to be both Nailbombs, or both Rebel Yells, or both Black Dogs, etc...
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Holy Diver bridge.
Cold Sweat or Emerald neck.
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Thank you for your feedback!
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Holy Diver bridge.
Cold Sweat or Emerald neck.
Although, the Holy Diver is recommended for bolt-on brighter guitars, but my LP has a warm tone (as all LP's do) and has a set-in neck.
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I have a few LP's with BK's, but for what you are looking for I would suggest an Emerald bridge and Mule neck. That combination gives a great Gary Moore, Paul Kossoff and Peter Green sound on my LP, while still letting me drive a bit harder with the bridge if I want. The Mule neck gives you the versitility you are looking for, though if you want a little cleaner tone, then a Stormy Monday would also work. I think that either neck pickup would give you what you want, the SM has a bit more of a bell like tone where the mule can give a bit more fatness in the cleans.
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Holy Diver bridge.
Cold Sweat or Emerald neck.
Although, the Holy Diver is recommended for bolt-on brighter guitars, but my LP has a warm tone (as all LP's do) and has a set-in neck.
That will not be a problem it all. The recommendations are VERY vague. I have a Holy Diver in my les paul and it's excellent.
In fact, the Holy Diver is Tim's (BKP's founder and CEO) favourite pickup for that sort of music and he primarily uses LesPauls. In fact, the sound clips are with les pauls.
Anyway, +1 for a holy diver bridge and Enerald or cold sweat neck.
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Holy Diver bridge.
Cold Sweat or Emerald neck.
Although, the Holy Diver is recommended for bolt-on brighter guitars, but my LP has a warm tone (as all LP's do) and has a set-in neck.
Holy Diver rocks in all guitars......never heard a complaint from anyone about it. Classic rock to metal is the Holy Diver bridge, but other BKP could do a good job.
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I think there's a number of combinations that could work really well
Holydiver/Emerald
Holydiver/Cold Sweat
Emerald/Emerald
Emerald/Mule
Abraxas/Emerald
Abraxas/Abraxas
Abraxas/Mule
As Slash uses Alnico II pickups and the more modern tones suggest at least AV and possibly ceramic; in many ways the alnico IV of the Abraxas may be the best compromise as it's vintage enough for Slash but hot enough for the modern tones.
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Rebel Yells will cover classic rock and go a lot further if you want them to. They are aggressive but put them in a band mix and they are great for making sure you cut through. I'd love to try Holy Diver and Abraxas though.
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I have a few LP's with BK's, but for what you are looking for I would suggest an Emerald bridge and Mule neck. That combination gives a great Gary Moore, Paul Kossoff and Peter Green sound on my LP, while still letting me drive a bit harder with the bridge if I want. The Mule neck gives you the versitility you are looking for, though if you want a little cleaner tone, then a Stormy Monday would also work. I think that either neck pickup would give you what you want, the SM has a bit more of a bell like tone where the mule can give a bit more fatness in the cleans.
+1. Perhaps an Abraxas as a bridge alternative, if you want a tad more mids.
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Rebel Yell bridge, Emerald neck.
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FWIW, I have 3 classics-one with Mules, one with Stormy, and one with Rebels...the Rebels are perfect for that style of music-my fave pup of all time
-make sure you check the value of the pots in your Classic...could be 300k
-the Rebs sound incredible with my Boogie Mark amps(which I play most often), but they also kill in my Bray and Glaswerks...very flexible
-the others sound killer,too, but the Rebs work a little better for the more modern stuff-Ilike the smoother sounding sustain I get in the highs...not harsh or biting,really works well with higher gain applications
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my les paul classic is loaded with a rebel yell in bridge position and a mule in neck position. RY neck sounds even cleaner than the mule, but slightly single coilish and scooped on mids. the mule is better for slash tones. anyway a rebel yell is exactly what you're looking for, in my opinion...
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alter bridge and black stone cherry sound "very ceramic"
a c-bomb or miracle man should be great for that, but won't get a true slash-like tone
maybe the alnico nailbomb with knobs rolled off a bit
I like the holy diver better for most stuff, but it sounds nothing like any of those bands, in my opinion
more like a middy, fat and fluid Jerry Cantrell meets Eddie kind of tone than the heavy and edgy Tremonti sound (Mark used a 500t in the past, by the way, and his signature pickup was based off that... and black stone cherry's guitarist plays stock classics with the 500t/496r set)
my bandmate has a miracle man loaded PRS McCarty that previously had a cold sweat and also had a PRS tremonti treble pickup
the tremonti treble sounded quite wild, hairy and angry, somewhat like the 500t... (or a starving human-eating werewolf :lol:)
the cold sweat was cleaner, brighter and more focused sounding, with less midrange body... really articulate response
the miracle man sounds punchier, pretty thick in the bass and low mids and has a more modern and controlled overall response, and still quite versatile, at least in that particular guitar... it cleans up pretty well and he gets quite awesome cleanish tones out of it
for the neck, a mule or cold sweat should be fine (second being hotter and more aggressive on the top and mids than the first)
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as expected, about 10 plus pups have been mentioned...and all are great!How about your amp/cab/gear?
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*Snip*
As Slash uses Alnico II pickups and the more modern tones suggest at least AV and possibly ceramic; in many ways the alnico IV of the Abraxas may be the best compromise as it's vintage enough for Slash but hot enough for the modern tones.
I'm rather new to BKPs myself, I don't have a warm sounding Mahogany Guitar, but I do have a Basswood one with the Abraxas in bridge. And I gotta agree with what Slartibartfarst42 says here about the Abraxas. I'm a huge Slash fan, and play everything from early Guns 'n Roses to his (imo better) latest solo project. And the Abraxas catches the sound dead on with abit of on guitar/amplifier dial turning. My thus far favorite riff to play on my Abraxas is the Nightrain intro riff, it's straight out of the record.
In my opinion the Abraxas handles gain well, but not too much, I usually keep mine at 4 or 5 and it gets a very good string distinction and very good singing tone, which is great for Slash stuff.
I was asking pretty much the same question as you are asking back when I wanted to get my first BKP set. Altough, with abit more Bluesy sound to it.
Altough, I classified Slash more as Hard Rock. And Lynyrd Skynyrd as an example for Classic Rock. Might just be me, again I also consider The Beatles to be Classic Rock.
I really can't tell you how it plays for stuff like Black Stone Cherry or Alter Bridge, as I don't play much of that stuff.
However, judging from what I've heard of those bands, I think the Abraxas will do ok. Something abit hotter will be best for that stuff. But it all comes down to what you play the most. The Abraxas will hit the Slash tone dead on, anything hotter will still sound good, but I doubt it'll be as great as the Abraxas to get the awesome Slash sound.
Altough, I can say I find it extremely, and I can't put enough emphasis on that, good for for solos, it's clear and the string distinction is superb on mid gain. It chokes abit of you crank the gain though.
Now that that's said. Here's some random inexperienced rambling.
I too might be getting myself a Les Paul Classic soon, that or the new standard (Got a thread about it on the Guitars, Amps & Effects forum, to try and get some opinions on the guitars before I try and buy, occasional faults, neck feel, build quality feel and that kinda stuff)
And I've done quite abit of research to find a pickup to go well with that which I want abit hotter than what my current Abraxas can provide. And considering we both have similar music taste.
I've quite set my eye on the Nailbomb, which sounds great imo. Mr. Air posted a soundclip to show it's versatility here: https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=27953.0
That clip alone pretty much sold me. Search around abit for some soundclips, most of the clips are very metal oriented though. At 4:20 (coincidence, I think not) You'll find the Nightrain riff, I think it sounds great. With the gain dialed down just another notch, I think the Nailbomb will do a decent imitation of the slash tone, but with a tad more crunch to it
As for your Neck Pickup. Well, my only BKP neck is a Singlecoil, that won't help ya much. But the Abraxas does good things clean in the bridge position atleast, albeit abit bright and twangy for my taste atleast on my basswood, but in the neck I see no reason why it wouldn't shine.
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as expected, about 10 plus pups have been mentioned...and all are great!How about your amp/cab/gear?
Wow, there are still way too many choices! Perhaps a look at my gear will narrow it down?
- '05 Gibson Les Paul Classic
- Randall RM50 (with the Blackface and Ultra XL modules)
- Krank Revolution combo
- Mark Tremonti power wah
- MXR Carbon Copy
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By the way, I tried getting some help from the Bare Knuckle staff, and Tim himself recommended a set of Nailbombs. Most of my playing leans towards high-gain... so I'm thinking maybe the ceramic bridge would be fine? What do you guys think?
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I'd take a warmer pickup for the neck, since the neck nailbomb is pretty high output and a bit trebly
a cold sweat or vhII should be fine and still hot enough for metal leads
even a mule might work well if you don't mind the output mismatch
for the bridge, both nailbomb versions should work, ceramic leaning towards alter bridge, alnico being a bit more versatile for mellower stuff if use the volume and tone pots
but I'll bet the c-bomb cleans up well too, since the cold sweat and miracle man do that without issue
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Don't underestimate how aggressive and tight the A-Bomb can be. I found the alnico Nailbomb far more aggressive than the ceramic Miracle Man and I can't imagine the C-Bomb will be toned down in any way. It's all personal preference I guess but I found the Holydiver far more versatile than the Nailbomb but I think the Nailbomb will work better in a dark Les Paul. You might want to look at a Rebel Yell too as that's based on the Nailbomb.
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Don't underestimate how aggressive and tight the A-Bomb can be. I found the alnico Nailbomb far more aggressive than the ceramic Miracle Man and I can't imagine the C-Bomb will be toned down in any way. It's all personal preference I guess but I found the Holydiver far more versatile than the Nailbomb but I think the Nailbomb will work better in a dark Les Paul. You might want to look at a Rebel Yell too as that's based on the Nailbomb.
The thing is, I'm no longer sure how much output I need exactly. I like my tone punchy and warm mostly, and my playing leans more towards high-gain playing as I mentioned earlier.
My guitar is an LP Classic so it has a carved maple cap, which doesn't make it THAT dark... I found it to be pretty bright for a Les Paul, but that might be because it has the stock pickups (500T/496R). What do you think?
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I'd take a warmer pickup for the neck, since the neck nailbomb is pretty high output and a bit trebly
a cold sweat or vhII should be fine and still hot enough for metal leads
even a mule might work well if you don't mind the output mismatch
for the bridge, both nailbomb versions should work, ceramic leaning towards alter bridge, alnico being a bit more versatile for mellower stuff if use the volume and tone pots
but I'll bet the c-bomb cleans up well too, since the cold sweat and miracle man do that without issue
Great, but how does the Cold Sweat bridge pickup compared to the Nailbombs bridge pickups (in terms of output/saturation)? I've been kinda torn between the two. I'd really hate an annoyingly saturated tone like that of the Blackhawks, but at the same time, I still prefer hot pickups. By the way, I almost NEVER use the bridge pickup on my clean channel (I would probably only use it once every blue moon in the middle position with the neck pickup). So it really only matters that it sounds punchy and warm oh high-gain, and that it cleans up acceptably using the volume knob on my guitar.
I leave all the clean stuff to the neck pickup to take care of the job.
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the neck nailbomb is pretty shar, bright, focused and scooped, so I suppose it's a heavily underwound version of the bridge nailbomb, considering the voicing and dc as well
sounds like a heavily (clean) boosted neck riff raff or something, but more scooped
the cold sweat is a little hot for a neck pickup, but nothing over the top
it has a very slight midscoop, like most PAF descendant pickups, but it feels middier and more balanced than most low outputs, which might give the alse impression of a middy shredder dimarzio-like pickup, but the closest it would get would be a PAF pro or something, not some sort of nasal liquifire or air norton that metal guys seem to love
the neck nailbomb is a little more articulate due to its hotter output and stronger picking attack, but the cold sweat is a really clear sounding neck pickup as well
it sounds pretty tight and consistent under heavy gain, but retains some warmth on the top
compared to a neck riff raff, for example, it's hotter, middier and a little less bright, so it feels more modern sounding
compared to the neck mule, it has a stronger picking attack and pushes the amp a little harder, so you get more sustain for leads and power chords, but might require some volume pot tweaking to clean up on gain channels
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Alright, I've decided that the bridge pickup should either be a Cold Sweat or a Holy Diver.
As for the neck pickup, it's probably going to be a Nailbomb... unless there would no difference in volume when I switch between the bridge pickup and the less hot Emerald neck.
Feedback?
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They're both really good pickups but also very different. The Cold Sweat is tight and bright with a kind of PAF thing going on with it despite its power. In a Les Paul you really do need to think of the song 'Cold Sweat' and you're not far off the mark. It will certainly cut through mahogany really well. It's a hard pickup to explain because elements of it seem quite traditional in terms of its PAF characteristics yet it is also great for modern Rock and Metal music. It's not the most versatile pickup I've ever played but it's a lot more versatile than you might expect.
The Holydiver is a much thicker sounding pickup. It has a very 80's Metal feel to it but it is extremely versatile. Roll off the knobs a bit and you can get some great Classic Rock tones and even some very passable Blues tones but wind things up and shove an overdrive in front of your amp and you can get a Metal players dream. It's very articulate, warm and smooth. There is distinct aggression to the pickup but its delivery is never coarse in any way. Think Doug Aldrich, Dio etc. and you won't be far off the mark. The Holydiver is certainly the most versatile pickup I've ever played.
As for the neck; I think with either the Cold Sweat or Holydiver bridge, the Emerald neck would be really good. It will give a huge palette of sounds with an awesome lead tone and would certainly be my choice over the Nailbomb neck. Having said that, the Cold Sweat neck is also incredibly good. If you get the Cold Sweat bridge, just get a calibrated set and if you go for the Holydiver bridge, get the Emerald neck.
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They're both really good pickups but also very different. The Cold Sweat is tight and bright with a kind of PAF thing going on with it despite its power. In a Les Paul you really do need to think of the song 'Cold Sweat' and you're not far off the mark. It will certainly cut through mahogany really well. It's a hard pickup to explain because elements of it seem quite traditional in terms of its PAF characteristics yet it is also great for modern Rock and Metal music. It's not the most versatile pickup I've ever played but it's a lot more versatile than you might expect.
The Holydiver is a much thicker sounding pickup. It has a very 80's Metal feel to it but it is extremely versatile. Roll off the knobs a bit and you can get some great Classic Rock tones and even some very passable Blues tones but wind things up and shove an overdrive in front of your amp and you can get a Metal players dream. It's very articulate, warm and smooth. There is distinct aggression to the pickup but its delivery is never coarse in any way. Think Doug Aldrich, Dio etc. and you won't be far off the mark. The Holydiver is certainly the most versatile pickup I've ever played.
As for the neck; I think with either the Cold Sweat or Holydiver bridge, the Emerald neck would be really good. It will give a huge palette of sounds with an awesome lead tone and would certainly be my choice over the Nailbomb neck. Having said that, the Cold Sweat neck is also incredibly good. If you get the Cold Sweat bridge, just get a calibrated set and if you go for the Holydiver bridge, get the Emerald neck.
Hmm... thanks for the detailed explanation! Aren't Les Pauls already too thick sounding and fat to put Holy Divers in them? Even though my Classic is pretty bright for a Les Paul.
I guess my decision goes to the pickup that has more punch (provided it's not way too much punch) and is a bit tighter... which one of the two would that be?
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Holydiver + LP = punch
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They're both really good pickups but also very different. The Cold Sweat is tight and bright with a kind of PAF thing going on with it despite its power. In a Les Paul you really do need to think of the song 'Cold Sweat' and you're not far off the mark. It will certainly cut through mahogany really well. It's a hard pickup to explain because elements of it seem quite traditional in terms of its PAF characteristics yet it is also great for modern Rock and Metal music. It's not the most versatile pickup I've ever played but it's a lot more versatile than you might expect.
The Holydiver is a much thicker sounding pickup. It has a very 80's Metal feel to it but it is extremely versatile. Roll off the knobs a bit and you can get some great Classic Rock tones and even some very passable Blues tones but wind things up and shove an overdrive in front of your amp and you can get a Metal players dream. It's very articulate, warm and smooth. There is distinct aggression to the pickup but its delivery is never coarse in any way. Think Doug Aldrich, Dio etc. and you won't be far off the mark. The Holydiver is certainly the most versatile pickup I've ever played.
As for the neck; I think with either the Cold Sweat or Holydiver bridge, the Emerald neck would be really good. It will give a huge palette of sounds with an awesome lead tone and would certainly be my choice over the Nailbomb neck. Having said that, the Cold Sweat neck is also incredibly good. If you get the Cold Sweat bridge, just get a calibrated set and if you go for the Holydiver bridge, get the Emerald neck.
Hmm... thanks for the detailed explanation! Aren't Les Pauls already too thick sounding and fat to put Holy Divers in them? Even though my Classic is pretty bright for a Les Paul.
I guess my decision goes to the pickup that has more punch (provided it's not way too much punch) and is a bit tighter... which one of the two would that be?
Holy Divers work well in any guitar. They are very balanced. It will not be too fat sounding.
The Holy Diver has more punch, the Cold Sweat is slightly tighter and they're about the same output.
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By the way, I tried getting some help from the Bare Knuckle staff, and Tim himself recommended a set of Nailbombs. Most of my playing leans towards high-gain... so I'm thinking maybe the ceramic bridge would be fine? What do you guys think?
Rule number 1 - listen to Tim. He has never been wrong in my experience...the man know his pickups. I have trusted him many times and never regretted it.
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I always found the cold sweat to be too polite sounding in the midrange for heavier stuff unless its getting boosted by an OD or such.
The nailbomb is certainly more aggressive voicing wise and I find the high end can sometimes be a little harsh but I also found this with the cold sweat as well.
However both pickups can be dialled in on the amp to avoid these factors other than the polite midrange of the CS I could never get that to have enough bite but my main BKP is a miracle man so that probably has something to do with it.
Regarding the nailbomb neck theres a really good demo on youtube where the guy has it in a les paul with a camera attached to the headstock... Ill try dig it up for you
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here we go
he changes part way through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkMxJiCjTU
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+1 on following Tim's advice...and don't forget to check those pots out,esp. the volume pots....if they are 300k instead of 500k(like the ones I have owned), that is going to make a difference when changing pups
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+1 on following Tim's advice...and don't forget to check those pots out,esp. the volume pots....if they are 300k instead of 500k(like the ones I have owned), that is going to make a difference when changing pups
What kind of difference do you mean? What pots are usually present in LP Classics?
On another note, I'm really digging the Holydiver bridge pickup! No, I lied... IT BLEW ME AWAY! I watched a few demos, and it's f***ing awesome! I think I'll go with the Emerald neck, as most of you have suggested!
Btw Toe-Knee (LMAOOOO), thanks for digging up that video for me man, it really changed how I look at the A-bombs.
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I kind of agree and disagree with some of these comments. Firstly, about Tim. The guy is a pickup god and certainly knows his stuff but that doesn't mean he's always going to be right. It does mean he can have an extremely well educated guess. I find that Tim suggests Nailbombs a lot of the time yet when I took that advice it was clearly wrong and I ended up sending them back in exchange for a Holydiver. 99% of the time I'd say Tim will be right but it does no harm to seek other opinions. I loved that clip of the Nailbombs too and it's one of the reasons I tried them but it ended up quite deceptive. Conversely, here's a clip of Holydivers in a Les Paul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T26RqvH3YBA
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+1 on following Tim's advice...and don't forget to check those pots out,esp. the volume pots....if they are 300k instead of 500k(like the ones I have owned), that is going to make a difference when changing pups
What kind of difference do you mean? What pots are usually present in LP Classics?
as noted above in my post, they usually have 300k volume pots-this will make tone warmer and rounder feeling with humbucking pups(which is why they use with the high output ceramic pups that come stock)-only way to know for sure is check with a multimeter(lots of info on web on "how to" )
-if you put in a set of nb's, for instance, with the 300k pots, you may be underwhelmed by the highs ...it will sound different from what you are expecting because the soundclips,vids,advice, are all based on the 'buckers being used with 500k volume /tone pots
I do use 300k in one of my hbucker equipped guitars to take away brightness and I use that axe for a lot of older rock, and it really helps round the highs in a Tim Sult/Clutch sort of way
-this is a variable that can send one on a "wild goose chase" in terms of tone chasin'...happened to me way back in the day with LP's...
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You'll Definately want 500k or 550k pots with holy diver... Or anything else really. And chances are that it currently has 300k volume pots. Otherwise you will not have enough top end presence or clarity. It really makes a difference.
EDIT: yes, it does have a 300k volume pot.
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You'll Definately want 500k or 550k pots with holy diver... Or anything else really. And chances are that it currently has 300k volume pots. Otherwise you will not have enough top end presence or clarity. It really makes a difference
EDIT: yes, it does have a 300k volume pot.
Alright man, thanks for the tip. I'll install the pickups and then check whether I'm gonna need the pots or not, because I already think that my Gibby is somewhat bright for a Les Paul.... and that's probably because of its thick carved maple top and because it has a slimmer 60's neck (less mahogany).
Here's a picture of my beautiful bride:
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Wow. That is an absolute beauty! The way the binding matches with the top in amazing!
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Wow. That is an absolute beauty! The way the binding matches with the top in amazing!
Thank you itamar101!
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I think these are good representations of what a nailbomb set sounds like in a les paul without going metal
quite hot and bright but retaining the paf-like clear midrange instead of the 80's bumpy mids of the holy diver
pretty much like heavily juiced riff raffs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzg89KB-vgw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkMxJiCjTU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6AsHu3Q5zM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BN0fPXgMyI
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You'll Definately want 500k or 550k pots with holy diver... Or anything else really. And chances are that it currently has 300k volume pots. Otherwise you will not have enough top end presence or clarity. It really makes a difference.
EDIT: yes, it does have a 300k volume pot.
So, let me get this straight. I need to get a 550k pot for each volume and tone knob? (total of 4 pots)
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You'll Definately want 500k or 550k pots with holy diver... Or anything else really. And chances are that it currently has 300k volume pots. Otherwise you will not have enough top end presence or clarity. It really makes a difference.
EDIT: yes, it does have a 300k volume pot.
So, let me get this straight. I need to get a 550k pot for each volume and tone knob? (total of 4 pots)
Well, I personally have 2 550k volume pots and 2 push-pull 500k tone pots for coil splitting (which sounds very good and I use often). That gives me enough top end presence and sounds great but if you don't want coil splitting I'm sure that a set of 550k pots would be great.
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You'll Definately want 500k or 550k pots with holy diver... Or anything else really. And chances are that it currently has 300k volume pots. Otherwise you will not have enough top end presence or clarity. It really makes a difference.
EDIT: yes, it does have a 300k volume pot.
So, let me get this straight. I need to get a 550k pot for each volume and tone knob? (total of 4 pots)
Well, I personally have 2 550k volume pots and 2 push-pull 500k tone pots for coil splitting (which sounds very good and I use often). That gives me enough top end presence and sounds great but if you don't want coil splitting I'm sure that a set of 550k pots would be great.
Thanks, mate. So you're saying that I don't really need to get new pots for my tone control if I don't care about coil splitting, and that a pair of 550k's for the volume controls would be enough in this case?
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You'll Definately want 500k or 550k pots with holy diver... Or anything else really. And chances are that it currently has 300k volume pots. Otherwise you will not have enough top end presence or clarity. It really makes a difference.
EDIT: yes, it does have a 300k volume pot.
So, let me get this straight. I need to get a 550k pot for each volume and tone knob? (total of 4 pots)
Well, I personally have 2 550k volume pots and 2 push-pull 500k tone pots for coil splitting (which sounds very good and I use often). That gives me enough top end presence and sounds great but if you don't want coil splitting I'm sure that a set of 550k pots would be great.
Thanks, mate. So you're saying that I don't really need to get new pots for my tone control if I don't care about coil splitting, and that a pair of 550k's for the volume controls would be enough in this case?
Absolutely. It'll be perfectly fine.
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Anddddd the decision has been made, Holy diver bridge and Emerald neck. Thank you all for helping me out in making my choices.