Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Deafcat64 on July 30, 2012, 01:12:21 PM
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Hello everyone! I just placed my order for my first BKP a little while ago. I have a Gibson SG Standard that sounds quite bright and jangly. I 've had it for a long time (the only thing my father ever did to support my musical career was give me this guitar, and it was used when I got it 15 years ago), I thought it might mellow with age. It is so bright at the bridge, that in all this time I have hardly ever used the bridge pickup alone. After a lot of deliberation, and a couple questions to Tim, I decided to go with an Abraxas, and adjust it a bit farther from the strings as Tim suggested. I never use a distortion or overdrive pedal, and use my volume and tone controls constantly while I'm playing. I built myself a Dumble ODS, from the ground up. A project that took 18 months and was worth every second of circuit redesign and parts changes. It's irreplaceable. I know an Abraxas is not the common recommendation for an SG but in this instance I wanted a bit more beefy pickup to counter the jangly, almost single coil sound of the bridge position. I tried several replacement pickups in it and though I could counter the jangle, I lost definition and the organic feel I like in my sound. I'm hoping this will cure the problem. I'll post the results when I get it installed.
I'm also considering a Mississippi Queen for the neck. Any thoughts on this one?
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If you look for a vintage sound, you can also consider the Stormy monday hambucker. They are really fantastic, clear, crunch and lead. And they work well when splitted.
Actually, my next project will be to upgrade a SG '61. I am looking at the Stockholm. This is also P90 pickup. Maybe it could be a good compromise for a vintage/modern sound.
Cheers
Stephane
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Thanks Stephane! I considered the SM and the Mule. I just need more oomph because I use the guitar to drive my amp. I also rarely use a pick. So the vintage output are a struggle for me. I actually got to try several BKPs when I was in NYC for a little while, and I love the Stockholm an MQ! My style is more classic than modern. Think Knopfler meets Page, or a bit of Jeff Beck aggressiveness. I may go with some SMs in an SG special I intend to give to my girlfriend though. She's awesome at blues, and I think that would suit her well.
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Thought I should say that I'm not saying I'm that great a player. I have 30 years in the game, but I'm no Page, Knopfler, or Jeff Beck by any stretch. My style is a mix of the bunch though. Just thought my first post made me sound like some arrogant ass. I do regularly build and repair valve amps, and my amp is the high point of my building career. I'll try to post some clips as soon as I get my recording rig back up and running.
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Just thought my first post made me sound like some arrogant ass.
It didn't (to me at last but I think most people here would agree).
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Congrats! Abraxas is one of my favorite BKP sets, and the bridge pickup in particular. And building an ODS is also a remarkable achievement. Have fun with those two.
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks Stephan! I actually got to try the Abraxas bridge a while back. I loved it! Just got an update that my pickup is on it's way! Yeah the ODS was a tough build. There are lots of schematics but the values are mostly guesswork. I spent a lot of time changing parts and signal path variations but I'm pleased with it. It absolutely sings, and is more than a match for any Two R*%K I ever heard. I'm hoping that the Abraxas will complete my elusive dream tone!
I was hoping to get some feedback on a MQ neck pickup with the Abraxas bridge. I'm not sure how the two will work as a pair.
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A quick pic of my current gigging rig. I hope to get some BKPs for the G&L some time soon as well.
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Can't help you with the MQ as I haven't tried it, but just have to drop a big +1 on the Abraxas. Have got it in my beloved #1 guitar for a week now. Needed a pickup to bring out the wood and tone the guitar has and have tried five different top-notch pickups (including a Painkiller) instantly settling for the Abraxas. I play a self build too, but not quite as ambitious, a 100w plexi clone. An excellent set, they've become friends. Will post a sound clip as soon as I can find the time to setup the recording gear.
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Awesome! I build lots of plexis, jcm 800s and the like. My favorite Marshalls are the jtm 45 and 18 watt. I do like to build some of the old Fender amps though. The ODS is based on the AB763 Fender circuit. I'm planning on quitting building amps for other people though. I'm just gonna build myself one each of my favorites before I quit.
I'm anxious to install the Abraxas. I'm really leaning toward the Abraxas neck as well but I'm curious as to the compatibility of the MQ. I love P90 loaded SGs, and I will probably end up with an P90 set in one of my guitars. I love to play slide, and I love the P90 tone for that. In fact, slide played a major part in my choice to build the ODS. I can't wait to hear the Abraxas on some Duane Allman and Derek Trucks tunes!
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The plexi is my first build, have it for two years now and it gets me smiling every time I flick the switch. A friend of mine wants an AC30, I opted to build it for him, hope he'll take the leap.
To me the Abraxas stood out eight miles high above the other pickups in the Vintage Hot and Contemporary categories listening to the sound samples on the BKP site. It has so much tone and captures that true classic rock feel. The SG happens to be my favourite guitar and I'd say the Abraxas is perfect for it, though the heavyweights on the forum seem to lean toward Cold Sweats.
If you are already planning to get a P90 SG I'd say go for the Abraxas neck, if not the MQ seems like a very nice way to create a beautifully versatile guitar.
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One bit of advice for you
Try changing the volume and tone pots first
Get a pair of 550k ohm pots and a pair of the Jensen caps - may be tricky fitting them in an SG.(may need to use orange drops instead)
I have found the improvement over the stock 300k pots to be a revelation - I use them in 50s wiring configuration.
You may well hear a dramatic improvement in tone even with the stock pickups , then when you add the BKPs you'll really hear the difference (you'll appreciate your tone controls even more too!)
4 pots will cost you about £20 (the jensens will cost you about £30, although orange drops will be under a fiver) but this is money well spent in my opinion if also spending £200+ on pickups
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Thanks for the advice! The garbage that Gibson wired into the guitar originally, was replaced the first week I had the guitar. I build valve amps, so I have always had a good supply of CTS pots of all values, and a vast collection of capacitors. as I said earlier, the guitar is bright and jangly. Almost single coil sounding. The 300k pots were replaced with 500k which actually made it sound more jangly, so the bridge volume went back to a 300k again so as to roll off a bit more of the treble. 550k wouldn't help the situation. I tried caps of various sorts with no problem finding space for them. If you need more space in an SG, just change to a straight, short switch instead of angled. For caps, I tried paper in oil made with both aluminum foil and copper foil. I found the aluminum to be preferable. I later switched to orange drops because I needed the PIO caps for a customer's instrument in an emergency repair. To the average ear, the orange drops are probably an unnoticable difference from the paper in oil. Still they are a vast improvement over the ceramic rubbish from the Gibson factory. The pickups I have had in the guitar over the years have varied. I changed them about six times, from 490s to burstbuckers to Duncans and Lollars and out of desperation to tame the brightness of the bridge I even tried a DiMarzio before going back to the 490T. I'll find the rightr values for the Abraxas!
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LiveWire, that's awesome! The AC30 can be a tricky build with the trem. You can make it happen I'm sure. I'm with you on the Abraxas. I fell in love with the SG back in the early 70s when I first saw one in a pawn shop. I think the Abraxas will be perfect.
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Just wanted to update this thread with my thoughts on the Abraxas in my SG Standard. I can't say enough that this pickup is spectacular! It may not be the traditional SG sound, but it compliments everything the SG has to offer. It sounds very earthy, and organic. It is without a doubt the most responsive pickup I have used personally. It cleans up very well with the volume knob and the clarity and note separation is spectacular! The bass is very tight, and the tone is undeniably even through the entire range. The midrange is not pronounced or dark. The treble isn't too much or too little, but very present and actually just perfectly balanced. I would describe it as a very rich sounding pickup.
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sounds like you got a bare knuckle pickup :D :D :D
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Thanks Eric! I have to say that BKPs are excellent! This guitar has been a tough one to find the right pickups for. I was really leaning toward Fralin High Output Humbuckers, which, by the way, are nearly identical to the Abraxas in construction. I got to try several BKPs on a trip I made to NYC a couple months back. While they all had great clarity, the Abraxas stood out to me. I found the Riff Raff somewhat shrill and spiky. The Emerald neck was exceptional, but the bridge didn't have much bass and the upper mids and highs overpowered the bass. The Mule was beautiful, with a great even tonal spectrum,but I wanted just a bit more power. I also tried a Cold Sweat, and Rebel Yell, but they both lacked the earthy tone liked in the Mule and Abraxas. The Abraxas is pretty much the perfect pickup for this guitar. I'm sure I'll find other BKPs that are exactly what I'm looking for in other guitars but for this one, there was no question! I'll let you know how the MQ works in the neck paired with the Abraxas.
For the record, the comments i made about the Riff Raff, and others, were only in regard to this particular SG Standard. I'm certain that they sound wonderful in other guitars. I'm actually looking at a set of Mother's Milk, or Irish Tours for my G&L.
I think that Tim and company are producing the best pickups available. I know I'll be a loyal customer!
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I would describe it as a very rich sounding pickup.
+1. Exactly my experience of the Abraxas bridge in two different guitars.
Cheers Stephan
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Stephan, I believe the Abraxas may very well be the best humbucker ever made. In the"vintage hot" category at least. I think a lot of people overlook the Abraxas for some strange reason. It is perfectly balanced. No one frequency is more powerful than the others, and the pickup seems to bring out the natural character of the tonewood in the guitar. It has a "rich" full tone and the upper mids, and highs are sweet, and clear. For lead lines, and slide, it is absolutely spectacular! For chords and rhythm, it's full and deep, with exceptional note separation. Very "organic", earthy tone. Highly recommended! Tim is dead on when he says ALNICO IV is the best magnet for vintage tone in hotter wound pickups. The Mules are outstanding as well!
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Stephan, I believe the Abraxas may very well be the best humbucker ever made. In the"vintage hot" category at least. I think a lot of people overlook the Abraxas for some strange reason. It is perfectly balanced. No one frequency is more powerful than the others, and the pickup seems to bring out the natural character of the tonewood in the guitar. It has a "rich" full tone and the upper mids, and highs are sweet, and clear. For lead lines, and slide, it is absolutely spectacular! For chords and rhythm, it's full and deep, with exceptional note separation. Very "organic", earthy tone. Highly recommended! Tim is dead on when he says ALNICO IV is the best magnet for vintage tone in hotter wound pickups. The Mules are outstanding as well!
You like the Abraxas, don't you? :lol: You describe exacty my experience when I got a Mules-loaded Saint Blues (all mahogany). I have a Crawler too, which is a sort of fired-up Abraxas. Great all purpose pickup, just a tad too compressed for my taste. I'm considering the Abraxas for a while and now even more.
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Telerocker, I just can't say enough good things about the Abraxas. I've struggled to find the right pickup for this SG for a long time. It's bright sounding for an SG. Don't get me wrong, it sounds wonderful and woody, like a good slab of well aged mahogany should, but it almost sounds like it's loaded with single coils. I tried Lollars, Fralins, Gibson pickups of various sorts and in an act of desperation, even DiMarzios. I even tried out several BKPs in it that sounded good, but too trebly. The Abraxas is perfect in this guitar. It fills out the full range of tone and still keeps the "woody" sound of the guitar intact. It's not very compressed, and has a nice open feel in the upper mids and highs. Perfect clarity, and drives the valves well with just the right ammount of grit when you need it. I have a Mississippi Queen neck on the way. I can't wait to hear them together!
Yes sir, I like the Abraxas. I like it alot! :D
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Hey DeafCat.
Ive had exactly the same issue. my 2012 SG is so much lighter than my classic. I fitted a VHII but it just doesn't work in mine. Too shrill in the upper range and very little bass. Clarity was spot on though. I must stress this is not the pickups fault, its my guitar. I would imagine in a nice heavy Les Paul this will sing. With only having a 20w valve amp, i was afraid the Abraxas might be too hot but bit the bullet yesterday and ordered it! Can't wait now.
I might change the order and get the neck pichup as well!!!
Cheers for the review, you have set my mind at ease :-)
Dean.
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hey, Dean
welcome to the forum
maybe your problem was pickup height or even string height, or perhaps the low power amp (the lionheart sounds amazing, by the way)
the vhII sounds amazing in my gibson SG and it's one of the bassiest bk pickups I had, only losing to the nailbomb, warpig and maybe the miracle man
got an instant sabbath-like tone from my marshall
I love how it fits perfectly the SG midrange
before taking it out, try setting both strings and pickups a little higher
and then get the bridge pickup closer to strings
makes all the difference and it's worth the experience even if you're swapping it for the abraxas
SG's are usually much more picky about matching pickups and finding the right setup than les pauls
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Hi Eric. I've tried all that and still no joy.
I really do think its the guitar.
Its so light its untrue. My other SG is a lot heavier but its a classic with P90's and that sounds amazing. Guessing the VHII would sound good in this!
The Abraxas might not work yet but we will see :-S
All the best.
Dean
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P-90s seem to like lightweight guitars.
My SG Junior is a lot lighter than my SG Standard and it sounds good with the stock P-90, even if a little shrill through my Peavey (it sounds great through more 'bluesy' amps). The pickup set in the Standard (490/498) was the big problem. They are finicky with humbuckers though, especially in the middle output range
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P-90s seem to like lightweight guitars.
My SG Junior is a lot lighter than my SG Standard and it sounds good with the stock P-90, even if a little shrill through my Peavey (it sounds great through more 'bluesy' amps). The pickup set in the Standard (490/498) was the big problem. They are finicky with humbuckers though, especially in the middle output range
Interresting observation. I must say that I only tried one p90 in multiple guitars, a MQ neck, and for my taste I found it to sit best in heavy guitars, preferably LPs. Generally in my mind the heavier and LP like the guitar is the more it likes P90s. All guitars with a lot of midrange also.
To be fair I have not tried anything to the likes of a Stockholm in a thinner, brighter guitar, but I can absolutly see them work. However so far my (still limited) experience points me more towards vintage p90s liking LP types.
That is also why I can see an MQ kill in a SG. If I ever am to get one (have not gotten around to liking them) I would surely put a MQ in there.
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I'm sure it sounds a bit different in a Les Paul, but it seems perfectly happy in my SG. The main issue with the stock Gibson pickup is that it's a bit trebly for my Peavey 6534+ amp, and tends to bring out it's shrillness. I'm putting a Stockholm in it to give it more low mids and bass, as well as a more contemporary tone suitable for hardcore, but I can definitely see how a Nantucket would be a winner in this guitar too, especially if I had a lower-gain tube amp like a Peavey Classic 30 or Delta Blues. My friend with the Laney Lionheart fell in love with it when he tried playing the Junior through his amp.
I would have no hesitation recommending someone swap out Gibson humbuckers for a BKP MQ set in an SG.
I should add here that my comments are based entirely on a BRIDGE P-90 ... Juniors only have a single bridge pickup ... and I'm surprised that more people don't run P-90s in the bridge.
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I have a MQ neck with the Abraxas bridge. The MQ is a good bit louder than the Abraxas. My friend, Brad Gum, a well respected Nashville session guitarist, and Gibson collector, says my SG with this combo is one of, if not THE best sounding SG he has ever played. I wouldn't hesitate to put a set of MQs, Abraxas, or Mules in an SG. The Abraxas may not like every SG, but when it does suit the guitar, it's spectacular.
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Cant wait now. Should be awesome! The lionheart really does bring out the guitars natural tone too.
Dean
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Lionhearts are very nice amps, although I did miss the master volume control.
My friend played my SG Junior (with stock P-90) through his Lionheart and it sounded great. Let us know how the Abraxas sounds with it as he is in the market for new pickups for his Les Paul
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It is a great amp and the P90's in my classic just sing. To be honest though it was rubbish until i changed the pots and caps. It had one of those stupid PCB boards in it!
I will report back as soon as i get them in.
Cheers
Dean
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Abraxas set now fitted :-)
Work miles better that the VHII. Might try that in my Jaguar!
Before:
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac23/deanmwoods/null_zpsff820545.jpg)
Inbetween:
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac23/deanmwoods/null_zps531d7a77.jpg)
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac23/deanmwoods/null_zps8ae7e733.jpg)
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac23/deanmwoods/null_zps0fd7ef5b.jpg)
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Very nice ... I'm a fan of covered pickups on an SG Standard too
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If it sounds as good as it looks you certainly made a huge improvement.
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Looks classy with the covers!
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Hey there. Cheers for the comments. It really is starting to come together. I changed the caps yesterday too with some sprague orange drops. This was another slight improvement. I may even take the bridge coil tap out!
Overall though, very happy! Might even keep this guitar now :-)
I do like the covered pickups but like the zebras too. It was a nice change for a while.
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That guitar looks great with the covered pickups.
I have not had a chance to test the VHII bridge in the same guitar as the Abraxas bridge but I had the neck pickups of both sets in the same Les Paul. In that guitar I preferred the Abraxas neck but the VHII neck was good, too, although a bit too powerful. That one now is in the PRS Custom where it simply kills.
Cheers Stephan
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Was that smiley face in there from the factory??
If so, LOL.
I know SGs, at least around the time my SG Junior was made (2006), have these markings in the cavities. Mine has SGJ (SG Junior) and CO (Coral Pink) markings in it, with the paint over the markings.
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It was! I laughed when I saw it. Saying that, if I was making guitars, I'd draw all sorts in there!