Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: mismas1 on August 02, 2012, 03:53:47 AM
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I am a collector of old metal pedals. Looking for other peoples opinons on what they think the best death metal pedal is and for what kind of sound/tone. It doesn't matter if it is manufactured now, or not manufactured anymore. Let me know your thoughts.
John
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Boss Metal Zone MT-2. I'll get called a 14yo for naming this pedal but it has been used by a few bands in the past. Cannibal Corpse use Robert Keeley modified versions in front of their triple recs. Deicide have used them live in the past. Also they were used early on in the Gothenburg sound. I still use mine with a small amp playing at home after 17 years. Tweak them right and they make a great sound.
Boss Heavy Metal HM-2 is the other I'll name. Classic Stockholm chainsaw sound :) I got a Japanese version off ebay and it's great. Again with a small amp they sound good. I find both pedals a pain to work with though through my 60 watt vypyr amp. They just don't seem to want to get a long but a 30 watt amp for both pedals works for me.
Two good pedals for some fun at home.
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ProCo Rat (small box version, white or black face), used by hetfield in front of a mark II boogie back in the day.
Thing about what you're asking though is, most of these things were used as boosts, not the pedal going into a clean channel. I wouldn't imagine, for example, Cannibal Corpse would go to the expense of using triple recs to end up getting all their distortion out of a 50 quid stomp box..
Biggest metal pedal of all time? IMO a tubescreamer. EVERYONE has used these to get a metal sound
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I would use a Sansamp GT2 or a Sansamp Classic. You can get a real heavy drive dialled in with some of the Mesa settings.
Dr.Pain and Tekbow both have very good advice I think.
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I use my HM-2 as a boost into my 30 watt Marshall. Use the amp gain mainly due to the fact that the pedal distortion doesn't really change anything past 3. Everything else on 10. Boosting the MT-2 with the HM-2 gets some interesting results.
I don't have a tubescream so should be next on my list.
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Don't think the tube screamer would be what you expect, it's barely a medium gain OD, gets a bit muddy in the lows, but it can sound magical when set right. I always thought it was popular with the metal fraternity because of the mid hump in it that lets it cut through (mind you, it was just putting back in what the metal guys where scooping out with the mid control), and that because it's medium gain it boosts properly without turning into an over compressed mush.
So it's not really a "metal pedal" just a pedal that metal guys used. I think the things like the HM-2 and MT-2 (had one of them years back, don't remember which) get used because they have fairly powerful eq controls and can be used to get some pretty extreme sounds. I never thought the actual distortions on them were up to much. but then again, I'm not looking to get "that" sound, one mans noise is another music and all that.
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Also don't overlook the Boss HM-3 Hyper Metal. It's also very much Stockholm sound.
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Not all metal is scooped. Kerry King has mids up the wazoo. On the amp his mids are dimed, he has his EQ pedal built into his amp that boosts the mids and that is dimed, and I think all his guitars are maple.
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HM-2 is THE death metal pedal. At least insofar as classic dm sounds are concerned. Mostly it's tubescreamers/ts clones into 5150s these days.
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Don't think the tube screamer would be what you expect...
I'm a 5150/6505 fan although I don't have a proper version of the amp, yet. Only a virtual version in revalver and in my vypyr 60. The tube screamer will be exactly what I expect. If all goes to plan I'll have a 6505+ 112 combo in the not too distant future :)
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Boss hm-2 for old school sounds.
Line 6 Über Metal for newer sounds!
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I haven't tried these, but they're defenitely aimed at metal players.
Emma "pisdiyauwot" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yci2iSNK8Yc
T-Rex "bloody mary" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGh-D-AOJwA
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The Digitech Death Metal pedal is cheap as chips, you can normally pick them up for £30.00, and they're great for that style of music. I've still got mine, it's cool for running bass through it too :D
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MXR Fullbore Metal seems to sound ok. Never tried one though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9acls6zx50c&feature=relmfu
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Distortus Maximus
Actually named by Kerry King.
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That's really not aimed at death metal sounds at all though, is it? I thought it was a 'thrash in a box' kinda thing?
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Boss hm-2 for old school sounds.
Line 6 Über Metal for newer sounds!
Yep. That's it.
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Don't think the tube screamer would be what you expect...
I'm a 5150/6505 fan although I don't have a proper version of the amp, yet. Only a virtual version in revalver and in my vypyr 60. The tube screamer will be exactly what I expect. If all goes to plan I'll have a 6505+ 112 combo in the not too distant future :)
See if you can grab an original 5150 combo, they seem reasonably priced on the bay these days
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-5150-2x12-60w-valve-combo-EVH-Eddie-Van-Halen-not-Engl-Mesa-Marshall-/140811537829?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item20c9058da5
Plus, US made (believe the 6505's aren't) and i just think they sound better than the 6505's.
That's if you're in the uk of course, but i imagine they're just as easy to find in the states.
not sure how the new ones are constructed but these have a closed back 212 cab which sounds f**king ridiculous when you turn up the resonance control. Then all you need to do is get one of the talented amp builders on here to sort out the cold bias and therefore the crossover distortion.
With one of these you just won't need a screamer. I never understood why anyone ever stuck a TS in front of these, they have ludicrous levels of gain and insane amounts of midrange grind (if thats you're thing) and a powerful mid control that can scoop it right out (if that's you're thing instead).
Am out of superlatives
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Dr. Pain
Also, don't waste your money on an Ibanez RI TS, either the 808 or TS9, they're ridiculously overpriced for a start, and def don't buy the keeley modded one, because the full TB mod+ is nearly 300 quid, and there isn't 170 quids worth of difference between them and the ibanez RI's. I have a full fat keeley modded vintage JRC chipped TS and if i hadn't have got it dirt cheap before the hype exploded on them i would never have bought it all.
IMO the visual sound route 808 pedal is the best bang for buck TS out there. This first vid did a lot to blow the op amp myth out the water and second one is just a great comparison between an ibanez 808 reissue and the route 808
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpTv2jAree8&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCZ7b5hqaxA
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That's really not aimed at death metal sounds at all though, is it? I thought it was a 'thrash in a box' kinda thing?
Sounds like a Rev+ in a box. Tons of headroom.
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Thanks for the heads up tekbow. I was looking Ibanez but the price is stupid so I was looking at a Maxon 808 instead. As for the amp, I had a go on a 5150 2 by 12 in shop many years ago and never forgotten it. I couldn't afford it back then but I wish I had it. I remember the shop assistant saying "please don't turn it up you'll blow us all out the shop".
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There's also the maxon 820 although I believe the current version of it has a different name
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That's really not aimed at death metal sounds at all though, is it? I thought it was a 'thrash in a box' kinda thing?
Sounds like a Rev+ in a box. Tons of headroom.
So, thrash in a box, then? :lol:
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See if you can grab an original 5150 combo, they seem reasonably priced on the bay these days
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-5150-2x12-60w-valve-combo-EVH-Eddie-Van-Halen-not-Engl-Mesa-Marshall-/140811537829?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item20c9058da5
Plus, US made (believe the 6505's aren't) and i just think they sound better than the 6505's.
That's if you're in the uk of course, but i imagine they're just as easy to find in the states.
not sure how the new ones are constructed but these have a closed back 212 cab which sounds f**king ridiculous when you turn up the resonance control. Then all you need to do is get one of the talented amp builders on here to sort out the cold bias and therefore the crossover distortion.
With one of these you just won't need a screamer. I never understood why anyone ever stuck a TS in front of these, they have ludicrous levels of gain and insane amounts of midrange grind (if thats you're thing) and a powerful mid control that can scoop it right out (if that's you're thing instead).
Am out of superlatives
I definitely agree with this. I have both a 5150 combo (with Celestion G12K-100 and Super Lead speakers) and a 6505+ head and can't see why anyone would need any Tube Screamer or OD pedals at all with this amps. The gain is all anyone could ever use on both these amps. I've got a Washburn Custom Shop Idol (with a WP in the bridge) and an ESP Viper (81/85) and couldn't think of a better set-up for what I play. The tonal variety on these amps should be all anyone would need. I'll admit that the cleans aren't great - but I don't play cleans anyway so no worries there.
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HM-2 is THE death metal pedal. At least insofar as classic dm sounds are concerned. Mostly it's tubescreamers/ts clones into 5150s these days.
Correct
If you want to know what is most often used, then this accounts for a very, very large proportion of it. Usually into V30s or T75s and almost always an SM57 (sometimes paired with something else; a R121 or MD421 or E609 or 906 or whatever).
Quite a few other amps get used, but 5150 is the single most common by quite a long way and pedal wise its HM2 for old school brutal, TS9/808/820 as a boost for more modern sounds. Very little else gets more than a look-in.
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Is there any "typical" settings for a HM2 when it's used with a 5150 for deathmetal tones?
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I'm not sure the two meet on any sort of regular basis. Its TS-types that get stuck infront of 5150s (and rectos and the like).
Typical settings for HM2 - Turn all the dials all the way around.
I dont want to think about what that would sound like infront of a 5150.
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I dont want to think about what that would sound like infront of a 5150.
Presumably it might not sound utterly dreadful if you were running the 5150 much cleaner than usual? Although I guess that kind of defeats the point of having a 5150.
If memory serves correctly, the old Sunlight Studios guitar sound was achieved by running a HM-2 with everything set to max (like MDV said) into a pretty much clean solid state amp. Which is a very different approach from boosting a 5150 with an OD pedal.
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And a totally different thing from say cannibal corpse running an HM2 into a triple rec. Still convinced the pedal is a booster in that case
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Something like that yes, on the last album they mixed a Mesa Mark something (5?) with a Rectifier. The album definitely sounds like the Mesa base sound, but boosted with something much more rawer than a Tubescreamer; it sounds a bit over the top to be honest and works ok on the rhythm sounds, but the solos on the record could sound better IMO.
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fwiw, there are hundreds of tube screamer clones on the market - its not an especially picky circuit or difficult one to get sounding right. Even the cheap £30.00 Joyo clones sound great.
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fwiw, there are hundreds of tube screamer clones on the market - its not an especially picky circuit or difficult one to get sounding right. Even the cheap £30.00 Joyo clones sound great.
Yep, I run a Joyo Vintage OD (TS clone) in front of my 5150 and it does the job just fine.
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I dont want to think about what that would sound like infront of a 5150.
Presumably it might not sound utterly dreadful if you were running the 5150 much cleaner than usual? Although I guess that kind of defeats the point of having a 5150.
Yes and yes.
Theres nothing to stop anyone from trying, and theres nothing that I know to say that it hasnt been done on some well known record or other, but the question being about how what pedals are generally used in death metal sounds, the answer is overwhelmingly HM2s into clean or near clean SS or 800/900/similar and TS-type (set with max/high level and low/min distortion) as a boost into something high gain (lions share 5150s and rectos). Though I'm not sure the distinctions are really worth anything, or are meaningful at all as descriptions, the former is the classic 'brutal' sound and the latter is the more modern 'tech' sound, along with a huge swathe of non-death metal.
That being said, that the TS -> 5150/recto -> V30 -> 57 -> API sound is absolutely all over modern metal, you could say that the only real answer for 'death metal sound' as opposed to 'sound used in death metal' is the HM2.
That doesnt mean to say that the same tonal ballpark cant be achieved in many other ways, but they are by far and away the most common scenarios.
Edit: also quite a bit of DM (more than elsewhere afaik) uses SS amps without a pedal. Some crates whos name espapes me, marshall valvestates, and especially the ampeg VH140s have all seen quite abit of record time.
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Hmmm, think I might try and grab an HM-2 on ebay and see how it sounds through the clean channel on my 5150 now, just for my own amusement.
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Is there any "typical" settings for a HM2 when it's used with a 5150 for deathmetal tones?
Theres two. The "live" version. Which is everything maxed except the gain, which is on 1. Use it as an od in front of your amp.
Then theres the "studio" bedroom version, which is the hm-2 and a tubescreamer, both maxed except the tubescreamers OD, which is minimalised. Run it into a Clean amp, and recieve.. Destruction..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw6c44hUK8o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw6c44hUK8o)
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Is there any "typical" settings for a HM2 when it's used with a 5150 for deathmetal tones?
Theres two. The "live" version. Which is everything maxed except the gain, which is on 1. Use it as an od in front of your amp.
How's this sound, compared with the more usual use of a TS to boost the amp?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-1vcuKcXeI
This video about the Boss HM2 has thoroughly amused me
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I'm nearly sure it was an HM2 i had. i think it's in my mum's attic. will have to see when i go back to ireland next.
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but the question being about how what pedals are generally used in death metal sounds, the answer is overwhelmingly HM2s into clean or near clean SS or 800/900/similar
That's what I was trying ask, didn't know they tended to use those kind of amps
Got a massive urge to listen to At The Gates now
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Is there any "typical" settings for a HM2 when it's used with a 5150 for deathmetal tones?
Theres two. The "live" version. Which is everything maxed except the gain, which is on 1. Use it as an od in front of your amp.
How's this sound, compared with the more usual use of a TS to boost the amp?
very similar. the ts just tightens up the signal, and the hm-2 brings the voicing.
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It's been a while since I've plugged in my Digitech Death Metal. Maybe I should do that tomorrow.
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That's really not aimed at death metal sounds at all though, is it? I thought it was a 'thrash in a box' kinda thing?
Sounds like a Rev+ in a box. Tons of headroom.
So, thrash in a box, then? :lol:
... :lol: IDK, for me it has lots of gain. Always on my board. Great for fly-ins when you find out the backline amp is a Twin Reverb. Really good EQ, almost like having a preamp in a box. Built like a tank and fairly low cost.
"Modern" sounding aggressive tone. Plenty of saturation. You wouldn't guess it was a stompbox.
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I am quite content with the following:
Tech-21 Sans-amp Tri-AC
Rat Deucetone
Zoom Tri-Metal TM-01
^ I actually have two of these - basically a Boss Metal Zone clone.
Sounds GREAT on synthesizer too!
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Is there any "typical" settings for a HM2 when it's used with a 5150 for deathmetal tones?
Theres two. The "live" version. Which is everything maxed except the gain, which is on 1. Use it as an od in front of your amp.
Then theres the "studio" bedroom version, which is the hm-2 and a tubescreamer, both maxed except the tubescreamers OD, which is minimalised. Run it into a Clean amp, and recieve.. Destruction..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw6c44hUK8o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw6c44hUK8o)
I have a couple of hm-2s, and I like them a lot. You can get one on ebay for less than a hundred bucks if you are looking for one. Pardon my ignorance, but what does the tubescreamer bring to the party? How does it make the sound more brutal?
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it tightens up the signal a bit. i think the hm-2 is a bit flubby on it self. the tubescreamer can provide a clean boost which makes it cut through better.
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Thanks man. I'll be picking up a tube screamer today. There is a cool family run music store that just opened up down the street from my office. They rock. I go in and play guitar with the guy who owns it just about every day. I love supporting local businesses, rather then the big giant mega stores like Guitar Center.
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Also, I have never been a big fan of using really expensive pedals. I like to use cheaper pedals and mix and match for different sounds. I know someone is going to blast me for this, but has anyone ever used a Boss MD-2 Mega Distortion Pedal? Does it suck? Anyone like it? What kind of sound does it give you?
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If you're after a tubescreamer-type pedal, and you don't want to spend too much, you could try the Joyo Ultimate Overdrive, which is a TS clone – I got mine for about £30 – or a Boss SD-1 (which behaves slightly differently, but serves much the same purpose, and lots of places seem to offer a mod that converts it to TS specs). At the cheaper end of the scale, I've also heard good stuff about the DigiTech Bad Monkey, although I've never used one personally.
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I'm still yet to buy a Tube Screamer but I was looking at a Boss SD-1 or OD-3. I do like Boss pedals and I have a Boss case near full of them including HM-2, MT-2, ML-2, GE-7 and NS-2 :lol:
I would use it as a clean boost and try it with the HM-2. Don't know much about them so best find more info on them.
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I'm still yet to buy a Tube Screamer but I was looking at a Boss SD-1 or OD-3. I do like Boss pedals and I have a Boss case near full of them including HM-2, MT-2, ML-2, GE-7 and NS-2 :lol:
I would use it as a clean boost and try it with the HM-2. Don't know much about them so best find more info on them.
I really like the SD-1. It's not quite as smooth as the TS clone I've used, but sometimes that can be quite nice.
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I find the SD-1 sounds good on rhythm, but too artificial on the treble strings. Against the Digitech Bad Monkey, I'd always choose the Bad Monkey.
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We used the hm-2 in my bass setup today.
This is: A cheap washburn bass, tuned to A. Boss Hm-2(everything on max), Orange Terror bass(bass 10, mids 0, treble 10, gain 10.) through a marshall jcm800 2x15 cab.
Monstrous bass sound!
http://soundcloud.com/doktorlummer/zoom0045/s-Shrf3 (http://soundcloud.com/doktorlummer/zoom0045/s-Shrf3)
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Super cool! Has anyone tried the boss MD-2 Mega Distortion pedal. Just wondering if it is totally lame. Even though it isn't an ancient pedal like I am used to using. Just wondering if anyone ever gave it a try.
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Ok, so I splured today and bought a Pisdiyauwot pedal. Thats right its made in Denmark, and is downright evil. If you haven't check this thing out, go over to youtube and check it out.