Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Nitwit on August 08, 2012, 02:33:57 AM
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So, it feels like I'm here every other day with questions about something, sorry about that.
Anyways, as some of you might remember I was here earlier, or rather on the guitar forum looking for some info on the new Gibson Les Paul that came out earlier this year.
Then, this is the funny part. As I was about to go try the beastie, work called. And I've been cut back, long story short. The money don't stretch that far anymore. Yes, I'm sad, and abit mad.
But! I did decide on getting a new guitar this summer, and that's exactly what I am gonna do. Just had to go down in price a bit.. or rather, a lot.
I've been looking at that new Epiphone SG that came out not so long ago aswell (G-400 Pro), as it has the 60's neck I want.
So I thought I'd go for it.
Now, I don't have it yet, as it has to be shipped from the States, no retailer here carrying it (Long live Amazon), and as thus I can't actually try it either. And it's a cheaparse guitar so if those former garbage men handling packages at the airport break it, it's not gonna be so bad. But I've 'read' alot of good things about the guitar, so I thought I'd give it a shot.
Anyways, due to the time it actually takes to get it delivered, I thought it wise to decide on a couple of pickups now. If I absolutely hate the guitar, the pickup choice will go into one of my other planed purchases for the future, so no worries there either.
Now onto what I want.
I want the sound to be somewhat true to the original SG's, but still with abit of punch. It's not gonna go any heavier than Heavy Metal-ish (Think Judas Priest). But mostly it'll range from Classic Rock to Hard Rock. (Rolling Stones -> GnR/Slash)
What I want in Neck and Bridge I'm gonna leave rather open. I know I want good cleans in neck, but still able to handle abit of gain.
The bridge I'm rather open to anything, but it does need to be able to get some wicked singing smooth solos on high-ish gain.
I've been looking at a few pickups and, well, I can't narrow it down by meself, listened to some clips around the players forum, but it didn't help much, and some of these really lack clips.
Holydiver, Riff Raff, VH II and Black Dog. In various combinations for both Neck and Bridge.
Looked alot at the Holydiver for the bridge though, I can say that much. But open to suggestions.
As for what I'm gonna run it through. I ain't got a fancy setup of over the top valve amps and effects. mostly because I'm not at a gigging stage, and can't really justify the price on something I probably won't use as much.
I'm a big fan of small practice amps, which are pretty much modeling of the various big boys, getting my THR-10 tomorrow (Finally, been waiting for it over a month) so gonna run it through that mostly. On whatever channel I feel is best.
Just gotta say, don't dis it till you've tried it, it does the job and it does it well, surprisingly well.
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I think a RR would be great here.
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If it was me, I would go riff-raff with a mule on the neck.
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I would go for riff raffs as you mostly plan to play a variety of rock. If you want a fatter neck tone go for a riff raff/mule combo.
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riff raff or vhII set
or a mix of those
and get a damn tube amp
a marshall haze 40 combo does the job well and is not expensive
there's plenty of other cheap options lately
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Another vote for the riff-raff here.
Oh, and get yourself a good leather strap, these Epis tend to be really neck-heavy.
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riff raff or vhII set
or a mix of those
and get a damn tube amp
a marshall haze 40 combo does the job well and is not expensive
there's plenty of other cheap options lately
Yeah, thing is I need lowish volumes, I'd like to keep the apartment and whatnot. Not beeing able to crank a valve is a disgrace. But yes, I will get one, eventually.
Anyways, loads of votes for the Riff Raff here.
Which was what I originally intended for the Neck.
Now, if the Riff Raff is really what I want out of the bridge though, I don't really know, what little I've heard of it makes me think it lacks a tiny bit of punch, but the gain clips are really lacking here, so might just be "bad quality" on the few that are.
I'll look more closely into the Mule again, however I did find that rather lacking in the bridge department aswell. Maybe Mule Neck and Riff Raff bridge is a better combo.
The VHII I assume got everything I need for the Judas Priest stuff, which is why I included it in my original list, not heard a whole lot of clips of this either ofcourse, so it's hard to decide.
I'll put the Mule and VHII up against eachother if I can find some bridge clips, the Riff Raff too if I find one, and we'll see.
Cheers =)
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RiffRaff's and SG's are usally happy couples. The Mule-neck will be warmer then the RR-neck, but the Mule is certainly not too dark. I have one in an all mahogany bolt-on Saint Blues. VHII's would be great too. They open, dynamic and punchy and very touchsensitive. When you dig in, they can scream. They will do hard rock and some heavy metal quite nicely.
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Anyways, loads of votes for the Riff Raff here.
Which was what I originally intended for the Neck.
Now, if the Riff Raff is really what I want out of the bridge though, I don't really know, what little I've heard of it makes me think it lacks a tiny bit of punch
Err... Tried it in both a SG and (now) in a semi-hollow Hofner Verythin, and it's about as focused and punchy a vintage 'bucker can get. This or we don't have the same definition of "punchy" ;)
Now I can't tell if it's really what you're after - perhaps something a bit hotter and middier would be a better fit for you, but SGs tend to get muddy with medium-hot pups. You might be better waiting for your guitar and decide based on how it sounds unplugged. If it's bright, you may give the black dog a try.
The RR neck is a godsend BTW - very clear and defined, splendid cleans and smooth hi-gain leads - but you may prefer the Mule for creamier slash-like tones. Here again, depends on how your SG sounds, the Mule will work better on a bright SG IMHO.
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Anyways, loads of votes for the Riff Raff here.
Which was what I originally intended for the Neck.
Now, if the Riff Raff is really what I want out of the bridge though, I don't really know, what little I've heard of it makes me think it lacks a tiny bit of punch
Err... Tried it in both a SG and (now) in a semi-hollow Hofner Verythin, and it's about as focused and punchy a vintage 'bucker can get. This or we don't have the same definition of "punchy" ;)
Now I can't tell if it's really what you're after - perhaps something a bit hotter and middier would be a better fit for you, but SGs tend to get muddy with medium-hot pups. You might be better waiting for your guitar and decide based on how it sounds unplugged. If it's bright, you may give the black dog a try.
The RR neck is a godsend BTW - very clear and defined, splendid cleans and smooth hi-gain leads - but you may prefer the Mule for creamier slash-like tones. Here again, depends on how your SG sounds, the Mule will work better on a bright SG IMHO.
Well, the difference between you and me is that you actually got the pups, all I have to go after is the very few clips I can dig up (that actually work). But I'm gonna trust your judgement =)
But yeah, I'll wait till it arrives, might be an extra couple of weeks till I can switch those awefull epiphone pickups out, but, atleast I'll get to break in the guitar. If bright go Mule, if not go Riff Raff, sounds like a plan to me.
So, neck is down to either Riff Raff or Mule. Happy with that.
As previously noted I like my brdige a tad hotter, which is why I was looking at the Holydiver, Black Dog and the VHII. Seeing how the Holydiver hasn't even been mentioned I assume that's not such a good match. I need that Bridge to cope with Heavy metal gain, which I'm not so sure the Mule or Riff Raff will do.
I know you said SGs tend to go muddy with abit hot pickups, but how hot? Will a SG usually be able to cope with the VHII or would the Black Dog be the best bet for the bridge, regardless of it beeing bright or not?
Primarily I want it to hold true to the SGs of old, the heavier thing is more about the forementioned work thing, which I don't know how long it will take to resolve, and wanted something that can bridge the gap, but still not be a "Jack of all trades, master of none", between my previous BKP outfitted guitar and the other styles I do play until I get that whole mess resolved. But it is in no way required if it's illogical match those pickups.
So basicly, if I were to hold true to the SG's of old, I should get a Riff Raff/Mule Neck and Bridge? Possibly Riff Raff/Mule Neck and Black Dog Bridge depending on the brightness, or did I mix it up?
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I have a Black Dog bridge and a Riff Raff neck in a Tokai LP. They are not a perfect match, but more versatile to me. BD has more overdrive gain than the RR in the neck, but i usually role the volume off my neck pickups anyway. Calibrated sets might sound like a good idea, but mixing the bridge and neck can give more versatile options than the boring matching set.
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BD's with a mahogany body/maple top work, but in a big lump of mahogany they could be a bit (too) middy.
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mixing the bridge and neck can give more versatile options than the boring matching set.
BKPs matched sets are not the same pup for neck and bridge, in fact they can be very different pups (ie AIV neck / AV bridge, or AV neck / ceramic bridge, etc).
@Nitwit:
The RiffRaff is possibly the closer match to the first SGs 'buckers so if you're after the canonical SG tone they're what you want. Then you can try a hotter / fatter bridge (BD comes to mind but re-read Telerocker's post about it) or a creamier neck (Mule), or a Mule set (but I'm not sure the Mule bridge - which I never tried - will be as punchy and focused as the RR). FWIW Deafcat64 seems to be more than happy with Abraxas in his own SG (cf https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28205.msg369766).
wrt/ the "how hot", it seems that the problem is mostly with "medium hot" pups, but it's more of a "general rule" and really depends on the exact guitar. Tim's "safe rule" is "either keep it really vintage or go full blast" - now some of us had good results with other choices (Abomb bridge for me, Abraxas for Deafcat64, and you'll find a few other examples I think).
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holy diver really didn't work for me and some other users that tried it in SGs
I remember someone loved it in a SG, but it was a supreme, with maple top, ebony board, so...
it was still amazing for leads, but sounded a bit dead for everything else (compared to the diver in other guitars)
the black dog has a lot of he holy diver voicing and tone, but it's a bit darker and softer
probably works in a SG, definitely not one of my first choices
might be a bit too smooth
I imagine a medium hot and bright pickup like the emerald might sound pretty good, though
but I'd stay under 10k, as Tim usually recommends, specially considering your main goals
Judas Priest has been using pretty hot and mostly active pickups for almost 30 years, but I'm pretty sure they used stock pafs and t-tops back in the 70's
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The Emerald crossed my mind but that might be because I spent most of last night listening to clips of it! How about a Rebel Yell? It should be bright enough to cut through, will do Metal and also has a proper 'Rock' flavour to it.
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holy diver really didn't work for me and some other users that tried it in SGs
I remember someone loved it in a SG, but it was a supreme, with maple top, ebony board, so...
That would be me. But like you said, it's a Supreme, so it's not your typical SG. It's more like a tighter, thinner Les Paul and most users agree that the Holydiver sounds great in LPs.
IIRC, Jonathan (Feline) tried the Emerald in an SG and said that it was "OK". When I asked Tim about putting Emeralds into my PRS Standard 24 (all mahogany, set neck) and expressing my concern about medium output pickups in SG (which has similar construction), he said that a PRS resonates differently than an SG, so I guess it's not just the wood/construction you have to keep an eye on when choosing pickups, but also how the specific design resonates. That wasn't much help but I just thought I'd throw it out there :)
Regarding the OP's pickup choice: I don't have much experience with neck pickups, but as far as bridge choices go, I suggest the Riff Raff. Reason #1: They work great in SGs (fact). Reason #2: They are able to handle all kinds of rock (classic -> metal). Reason #3: Since you have a modeling amp (no shame in that), you can get away with using fairly low output pickups and getting your gain from the amp. A lot of Diezel amp users, for example, use PAF type pickups and play extreme metal. So if you can get the gain from the amp, I'd go with Riff Raffs for extra clarity.
And regarding the Mule.. I tried it in my SG Supreme and while it could do metal and hard rock, it lacked some of the "punch" you want. I think that comes down to the Alnico IV magnet.
Edit: Punchy-ness obviously also has a lot to do with your amplifier, so while you can buy the pickups with the most punch, its not just the pickups that deliver the punch. I remember installing a Mississippi Queen into my EPi LP and playing it through a small solid state marshall. I was like "WTF? Where's the thump?"... Later that night I tried it through a Marshall halfstack and I was grinning ear to ear.
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mixing the bridge and neck can give more versatile options than the boring matching set.
BKPs matched sets are not the same pup for neck and bridge, in fact they can be very different pups (ie AIV neck / AV bridge, or AV neck / ceramic bridge, etc).
@Nitwit:
The RiffRaff is possibly the closer match to the first SGs 'buckers so if you're after the canonical SG tone they're what you want. Then you can try a hotter / fatter bridge (BD comes to mind but re-read Telerocker's post about it) or a creamier neck (Mule), or a Mule set (but I'm not sure the Mule bridge - which I never tried - will be as punchy and focused as the RR). FWIW Deafcat64 seems to be more than happy with Abraxas in his own SG (cf https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28205.msg369766).
wrt/ the "how hot", it seems that the problem is mostly with "medium hot" pups, but it's more of a "general rule" and really depends on the exact guitar. Tim's "safe rule" is "either keep it really vintage or go full blast" - now some of us had good results with other choices (Abomb bridge for me, Abraxas for Deafcat64, and you'll find a few other examples I think).
Looks like I should be going for a Riff Raff matched set then, it really does seem to fit the primary idea of what I want out of the guitar.
Got any idea how do the Riff Raffs hold up with coil splits though? As the guitar has that stock.
I got an Abraxas bridge already in another guitar, so don't really want another one of those (They're absolutely lovely though). If I find the Riff Raff bridge lacking I can always switch them.
holy diver really didn't work for me and some other users that tried it in SGs
I remember someone loved it in a SG, but it was a supreme, with maple top, ebony board, so...
it was still amazing for leads, but sounded a bit dead for everything else (compared to the diver in other guitars)
the black dog has a lot of he holy diver voicing and tone, but it's a bit darker and softer
probably works in a SG, definitely not one of my first choices
might be a bit too smooth
I imagine a medium hot and bright pickup like the emerald might sound pretty good, though
but I'd stay under 10k, as Tim usually recommends, specially considering your main goals
Judas Priest has been using pretty hot and mostly active pickups for almost 30 years, but I'm pretty sure they used stock pafs and t-tops back in the 70's
I do really like the Emerald aswell, but I always thought of it more of a "LP" pickup, and it's on the list of what I want in one of my upcoming LPs. I'll
As for the Judas Priest stuff, when it comes to "old" musicians, I'm of the kind that love the old stuff, and mostly hate whatever new stuff they come out with, so what I like most about Judas Priest is the early stuff around the 70's - 80's era.
So it might work out decently enough regardless.
@Troy
The THR really do pack quite abit of gain, and you get editing software along with it, hook it up to your PC; fiddle with ALOT of virtual knobs, and you can drive it even further. Add in compression, boosts and whatnot aswell.
But ofcourse, as a 10w amp, you don't get the "oomph", but that's not what I was after either. (You can ofcourse drive it through some awesome external speakers and get some of that Oomph in there)
Really didn't know that the output on the Pickups didn't matter as much on a Modeling amp as it would on a proper valve. So, sir. I tip my hat to you, I learn something new every day.
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Really didn't know that the output on the Pickups didn't matter as much on a Modeling amp as it would on a proper valve. So, sir. I tip my hat to you, I learn something new every day.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. English isn't my first language so let me try to clear things up. :)
I'll give an example: I play a JCM800 which is a medium gain amp by today's standards. If I want a lot of gain I have two options - I can use a boost pedal or use hot pickups. I much prefer the tone of hot pickups pushing an amp so I didn't even consider the low ouput models. Now, If my main amp was... let's say a Mesa Boogie or Diezel, I would have a lot of preamp gain available, so pushing the amp with a hot pickup or a boost pedal wouldn't be necessary to achieve a hi-gain tone. Your modeller probably has quite a bit of preamp gain on tap, so you don't need to push the front end with a hot pickup. Lower output pickups offer other advantages however, usually more clarity, less compression and an extended range (that's why even some metal guys use PAF types). You can always make an open pickup sound more compressed by using a compressor, but it's impossible to make a compressed pickup sound more open with external effects.
All that said, I still prefer hot pickups over low ouptut ones for certain styles of music (for me this applies to modern metal). It's all about the feel. In my experience, the feel factor is important whether you're using a modeller, solid state amp, valve amp... A Mule can do metal and it offers a lot of clarity, but I still prefer the Holydiver for certain metal styles, even though, on paper, the Mule has a lot of qualities metal players look for. In you're case, I'd still go with a Riff Raff for the bridge.
Hope this helps to clarify things :) Also, this is only my opinion of course. Other forum members may disagree.
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Really didn't know that the output on the Pickups didn't matter as much on a Modeling amp as it would on a proper valve. So, sir. I tip my hat to you, I learn something new every day.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. English isn't my first language so let me try to clear things up. :)
I'll give an example: I play a JCM800 which is a medium gain amp by today's standards. If I want a lot of gain I have two options - I can use a boost pedal or use hot pickups. I much prefer the tone of hot pickups pushing an amp so I didn't even consider the low ouput models. Now, If my main amp was... let's say a Mesa Boogie or Diezel, I would have a lot of preamp gain available, so pushing the amp with a hot pickup or a boost pedal wouldn't be necessary to achieve a hi-gain tone. Your modeller probably has quite a bit of preamp gain on tap, so you don't need to push the front end with a hot pickup. Lower pickups offer other advantages however, usually more clarity, less compression and an extended range (that's why even some metal guys use PAF types). You can always make an open pickup sound more compressed by using a compressor, but it's impossible to make a compressed pickup sound more open with external effects.
All that said, I still prefer hot pickups over low ouptut ones for certain styles of music (for me this applies to modern metal). It's all about the feel. In my experience, the feel factor is important whether you're using a modeller, solid state amp, valve amp... A Mule can do metal and it offers a lot of clarity, but I still prefer the Holydiver for certain metal styles, even though, on paper, the Mule has a lot of qualities metal players look for. In you're case, I'd still go with a Riff Raff for the bridge.
Hope this helps to clarify things :) Also, this is only my opinion of course. Other forum members may disagree.
I totally agree. Very well said. I honestly wouldn't have known that English wasn't your first language :)
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Really didn't know that the output on the Pickups didn't matter as much on a Modeling amp as it would on a proper valve. So, sir. I tip my hat to you, I learn something new every day.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. English isn't my first language so let me try to clear things up. :)
I'll give an example: I play a JCM800 which is a medium gain amp by today's standards. If I want a lot of gain I have two options - I can use a boost pedal or use hot pickups. I much prefer the tone of hot pickups pushing an amp so I didn't even consider the low ouput models. Now, If my main amp was... let's say a Mesa Boogie or Diezel, I would have a lot of preamp gain available, so pushing the amp with a hot pickup or a boost pedal wouldn't be necessary to achieve a hi-gain tone. Your modeller probably has quite a bit of preamp gain on tap, so you don't need to push the front end with a hot pickup. Lower pickups offer other advantages however, usually more clarity, less compression and an extended range (that's why even some metal guys use PAF types). You can always make an open pickup sound more compressed by using a compressor, but it's impossible to make a compressed pickup sound more open with external effects.
All that said, I still prefer hot pickups over low ouptut ones for certain styles of music (for me this applies to modern metal). It's all about the feel. In my experience, the feel factor is important whether you're using a modeller, solid state amp, valve amp... A Mule can do metal and it offers a lot of clarity, but I still prefer the Holydiver for certain metal styles, even though, on paper, the Mule has a lot of qualities metal players look for. In you're case, I'd still go with a Riff Raff for the bridge.
Hope this helps to clarify things :) Also, this is only my opinion of course. Other forum members may disagree.
Yeah, I was abit befuddled about it tbh, so yes I misunderstood, but it had nothing to do with your English. I am a Nitwit, so I blame it on that.
Still picking up bits and pieces about gear here and there, so cheers for the writeup, truly splendid.
I'll especially take note of the JCM800 beeing medium gain. I've always thought that to be rather high gain. But then I'm not up to speed on todays standards. Ofcourse I do put the Boogie up there at the top of the gain chain, which might not hold true anymore either.
That said, I do love clarity, so I guess the Riff Raff is the way to go. Should work nicely.
I'm guessing that puts me down for 1 calibrated Riff Raff set.
Now there's the thing that BigB mentioned earlier about the potential brightness on the guitar, but I'm not too worried. All Mahogany, set-neck. Sounds like a recipe for mellow smooth tones to me, but again, I might be wrong, you know. I'm a Nitwit.
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Lower pickups offer other advantages however, usually more clarity, less compression and an extended range (that's why even some metal guys use PAF types). You can always make an open pickup sound more compressed by using a compressor, but it's impossible to make a compressed pickup sound more open with external effects.
It's all about the feel. In my experience, the feel factor is important whether you're using a modeller, solid state amp, valve amp... A Mule can do metal and it offers a lot of clarity, but I still prefer the Holydiver for certain metal styles, even though, on paper, the Mule has a lot of qualities metal players look for. In you're case, I'd still go with a Riff Raff for the bridge.
:D
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:D
Other than the fact that I wrote "lower pickups" (which someone might mistakenly interpret as "pickup that is farther away from the strings"), when I really wanted to say lower output pickups, did I miss anything? :)
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:D
Other than the fact that I wrote "lower pickups" (which someone might mistakenly interpret as "pickup that is farther away from the strings"), when I really wanted to say lower output pickups, did I miss anything? :)
nope
you expresssed everything I try to explain here everyday, and without needing star wars and kung fu emoticons :lol:
I still love the higher output models for some stuff and the greater sustain, but I can't have everything, so I'm sticking with the low output models
just got an alnico warpig and a 70's dimarzio k10 (super 2) for my SG, but it needs a headstock repair
and when I think I'm finally done and satisfied with my riff raff/mule lp custom and my black dog/cold sweat greco, a friend offers me a VHII set for cheap right when I was about to sell my other pickupless les paul copy :?
damn you, tim
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...without needing star wars and kung fu emoticons :lol:
I have to admit, those emoticons gave me the best laugh of the day :lol:
If you have the BKP addiction (or love to try out different pickups in general), I'm afraid the only solution is more guitars :shock: Curse you Tim for doing your job so well!!! :lol: I need at least one Les Paul, a 335 with SMs, something with P90s, and everybody needs a Tele (except Roo I guess :lol:)... when will the GAS stop?! :lol:
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Excuse my bumping and the forthcoming wall of questions.
Just recieved the Guitar, which took longer than expected. I did however ditch Amazon and get it from Thomann instead, saved myself buttload of money, which is saying something for such a cheap guitar.
Gave it a whirl, apart from some awefull string buzz it's quite nice, the fretboard is rather, grainy and the strings somwhat rasps on the board when bending, doesn't affect the tone though, and it'll work itself out in a few, uhm, years. I'm gonna let it settle for a few days and try to "play it in". If that doesn't work I guess it's adjustment time.
Regardless, on the subject of whether it is bright or not. What is bright exactly? It sounds darker than any of my other "playable" guitars, which are two Basswood body/Maple neck and a good ol' strat. Its ofcourse miles darker than the strat, but not a lot darker than the basswoods, but still quite noticable.
It sounds quite mellow and smooth actually, courtesy of the Setneck and Mahogany no doubt.
On a related note, I will ofcourse be switching the electronics aswell. Volume are Push/Pulls. I see that BKP offers Push-Pulls and their custom 550k CTS pots. Do the Push/Pull pots and the 550ks work well together? I'll be changing all of the electronics, and I quite like getting stuff from the same place instead of running around to different retailers. As such I'll also be changing the pickup switch and jack socket, the ones offered by BKP any good or are there better ones that I should look for? Related: Switchcraft straight 3-way toggle, I'm assuming this works fine for an SG?
The accessories site doesn't seem to offer all that much info on these things, which is a shame.
Also, I take the BKP caps are recommended for this one? I.e 15 neck, 22 bridge?
On the subject of electronics, I've yet to upgrade the electronics in my last guitar which I outfitted with BKPs.
It has a SSH configuration, 1 volume and 1 tone control. It sounds rather bright, I'm sure some quality pots might make it easier to tame. Right now it has 500k pots in it. The BKP ones are 550k, I fear that while it may not be such a huge difference, it might put it too far out on the bright side, while the BKP 280k ones may be too dark. Should I go for something in between? If so, what? Or are the BKP ones really the best choice, if so, which? As a note, this guitar has Slow Hands Neck/Mid and Abraxas Bridge.
This also brings me to the caps for this one. What to get?
I belive that should cover my questions, sorry again for the wall. :roll:
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wrt/ your SG : don't waitn chabge the strings and give it a good setup (action, intonation) to start with - until then you don't know what this guitar's worth. As a full mahogany guitar chances are it's darker and more mellow than your other (basswod or alder / maple) ones, whether it's a "bright" or "dark" SG you can only know by comparing it with other SGs.
Oh and yes, 0.015 and 0.022 caps are good values for a SG.
No major reason to change the switch and jack now except if you pay some tech to do it - they'd have to be damn bad to have a major impact on your tone. Pots I can't tell I don't know what this guitars ships with, but if they are 500K, don't look too cheap and have a regular course you may as well keep them for now (but if they are anything like the utter pieces of s..t that were on my son's Epi by all mean get rid of them <g>).
wrt/ your other guitar: if it's already a bit too bright, 550K pots won't cure it. You can try lower values (in the 300/350K range) and eventually higher values caps (don't know what you actually have) to lower the cutoff frequency - or lower values caps to move the cutoff frequency higher (this might seem a bit weird but I found this to make the tone control more usable - ie less of a "on/off" effect - on my strat).
"BKP" pots (read this as a short for "BKP special order CTS pots" are, well, mostly CTS pots - good quality, but so will be "ordinary" CTS, Alpho pots etc. The trick is that the 550K spec makes sure you at least have 500K (this is "550K +/- 10%") - where ordianry 500K (+/- 10%) tend to be more often than not between 450K and 475K (I've rarely found a 500K pot to be more than 480K, and only once to be more than 500K).
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wrt/ your SG : don't waitn chabge the strings and give it a good setup (action, intonation) to start with - until then you don't know what this guitar's worth. As a full mahogany guitar chances are it's darker and more mellow than your other (basswod or alder / maple) ones, whether it's a "bright" or "dark" SG you can only know by comparing it with other SGs.
Oh and yes, 0.015 and 0.022 caps are good values for a SG.
No major reason to change the switch and jack now except if you pay some tech to do it - they'd have to be damn bad to have a major impact on your tone. Pots I can't tell I don't know what this guitars ships with, but if they are 500K, don't look too cheap and have a regular course you may as well keep them for now (but if they are anything like the utter pieces of s..t that were on my son's Epi by all mean get rid of them <g>).
wrt/ your other guitar: if it's already a bit too bright, 550K pots won't cure it. You can try lower values (in the 300/350K range) and eventually higher values caps (don't know what you actually have) to lower the cutoff frequency - or lower values caps to move the cutoff frequency higher (this might seem a bit weird but I found this to make the tone control more usable - ie less of a "on/off" effect - on my strat).
"BKP" pots (read this as a short for "BKP special order CTS pots" are, well, mostly CTS pots - good quality, but so will be "ordinary" CTS, Alpho pots etc. The trick is that the 550K spec makes sure you at least have 500K (this is "550K +/- 10%") - where ordianry 500K (+/- 10%) tend to be more often than not between 450K and 475K (I've rarely found a 500K pot to be more than 480K, and only once to be more than 500K).
Right so. I did the question round before I actually plugged the guitar into the amp (only had like 30minute fiddle time, and I wasn't near my amp, or any amp at the time), and well. Appearently, and ironic enough. The pickup switch is busted. Yeah really, neck position works fine, bridge and middle pos don't work. They do work if I wiggle the switch around abit though, but cuts out again after a short while, so I'm almost positive it's the switch that's the issue. Haven't opened the guitar yet either though, as if it's worse than I think it is I don't want to void my warranty (gonna contact Thomann tomorrow and see what exactly they'll let me do without voiding it) Yes I know, my plans for it is gonna void it regardless, I just like getting things that work as they should originally.
While yes it might not be required to change all the electronics, atleast if I do I know exactly whats in it.
However, contrary to what I thought, the jack input looks good enough, and don't have the same signs as my other "cheap" guitar. so that might do.
As for good setup, was thinking the string change might do some good, but due to the above issue I decided to wait. As for proper setup, when it comes to tweaking a guitar I'm cr@p at it, so I usually hold that off until it's the only option left. I generally don't go within 3 feet of a truss rod without its cover on though, I know I'll break it, I just know it.
I'll see what the course of action turns out to be before I do something hasty here.
The pots have to go, ofcourse I've only managed to try out two of em, but the range is decent, but not optimal, and they're as flabby as the skin of a 120 year old. Tone knobs are does have good resistance though, but abit too much tbh, almost need a wrench to turn em. Might be that the flabby is a Push/Pull thing, I don't know, my first time even trying one.
The knobs aren't leveled either, which I found rather irritating, but that's a minor thing. Kinda like a humming top nearing the end of it's spinning cycle, or the world after a bit too much beer.
As said, I haven't opened it up yet to check the pot value, but I believe I read that they were 500k, and I went with that assumption when posting the questions.
As for the other guitar. Been some time since I've opened it, but it's going on the table tomorrow to install some strap locks, so I'll pop it open and check the cap value as I'm not 100% on the cap value right now. (think it was 47, but that might be in the ol' strat)
"middle" range pots seems like a good idea to me. Currently it is a tad bit bright, nothing unbearable, but it's near a 500k potted strat (Yes I have one of those). Current pots are also kind of an On/Off switch, so the lower value cap might be a good thing to try out. What's considered low and what's high though? Guessing a 0.01 cap won't really work.
Ah right, read that whole lower value pot than printed thing sometime, remember now, Must've slipped my mind, thx for the reminder =)
So much stuff to know, so limited space.
On another completely unrelated note. Not relating to BKPs or even Pickups, barely even related to Guitars. Just gonna throw it out there as I'm abit giddy.
Had yet another "new" guitar walk in the door today, was a complete surprise too. What it is befuddles me. It's old, beaten and has 13 year old strings on it of which the high e is missing. (Duh)
It's an Člite a 335 copy, other than that I'm at a complete blank, don't know the exact year, but it's most likely somewhere around late 60's though 70's.
Left in a basement for the last 13 years, without a case, just sitting there in a damp basement on a concrete floor all those years. Major cracks all around, whammy is missing(it's rusted shut regardless), each and every screw are completely rusted, 8th fret is gone. Whatever finish used to be on it is gone, if there ever was any, Truss rod cover is gone(which is rather an unique piece to this "brand"). A good chunk of the wood is missing between the bindings from the jack input about halfway down the guitar side, and looks like someones smacked the side of body with a hammer right next to the neck.
Haven't dared to plug it into the amp yet until I've checked wirings and done some readings, but the pickups look funky. Sorta like a mini bucker, but they're long, very very long, Around the same size as those long P90's. But it's still a 'bucker.
All of these are minor things, here comes the dousy, The neck is twisted.
Guess what I'll be doing for the next few months.
Am I completely bonkers to take on this project?
As a note:
It's gonna be my "practice to fix guitar", I'm planing to apply to a Luthier school next year and could use the "practice" when it comes to fixing up old, beaten guitars. One can only read oneself to so much, eventually one must take action.
A complete "practice build" comes later though, it's in the plans, if I get the time.
Just throwing it out there, as I said earlier. I'm giddy, a new guitar is a new guitar, regardless of the condition.
Which is also why I always treasure everything educational you guys throw at me.
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Hello Nitwit.
Hope I dont just mess up your pickup choice here. I had a set of Riff Raff`s in my Gibson Sg.
I mailed BKP and told em how I really loved the RR`s in my lively resonating SG, but wanted a little more power to drive my amp a little more. Told them I was concidering a set of VHII or maybe even the Abraxas and asked what they would suggest.
And and that I mostly play 70`ish classic rock/hard rock.
I`ll quote Tims answer:
"Hi Tom
I would recommend Abraxas over VHII for a significant bit of extra output but for a slightly harder edge and great classic '70s rock tone I really recommend the Emerald humbuckers.
Kindest Regards,
Tim"
So....a set of Emeralds are comming my way :D
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I've always seen the Emeralds like hotter Riff Raffs, and I'm considering them for my second RG7 since I love the Riff Raff on my first one. But one this case (SG) I would probably go for Riff Raffs and boost if needed. They have the punch by themselfs.