Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Slartibartfarst42 on August 08, 2012, 10:35:38 AM
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Forgive the long post but if I'm asking for advice and opinions it seems only reasonable to give as much info as possible. :D OK, here's the deal. I have a Jackson SL3 with a Miracle Man and Trilogy Suites so that pretty much covers me for Metal. My other guitar is a PRS SE Custom 24 and that is the one I now want to give the BKP treatment to. Here's some of my criteria:
1) I don't need it to do the same as my Jackson but I do need it to be versatile as it is also a backup guitar for gigs so some ability to cover Metal OK would be nice.
2) I want this to be aimed primarily at covering songs up to the point where my Jackson will take over so I'm looking for great clear cleans, a beautiful Blues tone and some great Rock tones that will take a decent chunk of gain.
3) The tone should have real body to it, with punch.
4) The bridge should be crisp, articulate and have a bit of aggression to it. Just enough to give it a bit of bite.
5) The neck should be sweet and creamy. Think of early Dave Murray tone when he was using a PAF in the neck.
6) Between the bridge and neck pickups I'd like to cover the soft and sweet Blues based tones of Santana and the more aggressive, thick and crisp tones of Gary Moore.
Bridge Options
Holydiver - I know this pickup already and I like it. It will do the Rock tones really well, has a great lead tone which is important to me and cleans up OK, though not the most Bluesy of my options. Talking to Tim, he rates this one very highly with an Emerald in the neck for a good range of tones.
VHII - Not one I'd considered before at all but Tim says it works really well in PRS guitars and the clips I've listened to sound very impressive indeed. Superb tone. It sounds rather brighter to me than the Holydiver but not harsh and does seem to have a more PAF vibe to it with its more modest output. My two concerns with this one (probably due to me lack of experience with it) is that the Emerald neck sounds like it would be REALLY good for what I want but I don't think it would go well with a VHII in the bridge so if I used the VHII in the bridge I'd need another neck option. The other slight concern is that I read a few posts saying that the VHII kinda shows up mistakes. I'm not a bad player but I'm a hell of a long way from being really good.
Neck Options
Emerald - I hear incredible things about the Emerald neck, Tim rates it very highly for what I want and the description certainly seems to sound suitable. It should be articulate enough and the AIV magnet will give it some great PAF Blues tones so it sounds like it would be great for both Dave Murray and Santana.
VHII - Again, I know nothing about the VHII so I have no idea if it will do what I want but if I went with a VHII in the bridge, I'm not sure what else I could put with it.
Abraxas - I only mention this one because like the Emerald it's AIV so I assume it shares a number of very similar qualities and if the Emerald is good for the Dave Murray tone it seems reasonable to assume the Abraxas will and I think it would go with the VHII bridge better than the Emerald
So there it is; I'm really stuck. The Emerald sounds ideal for the neck and I'm pretty sure the Holydiver will perform well in the guitar and Tim agrees. However, Tim also thinks that VHII are great pickups for a PRS and I'd be a fool to if I didn't at least consider this suggestion and find out more, especially as the clips I've listened to sound so good.
Thanks :D
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Have you considered the Crawlers ? IIRC the PRS24 is a rather bright guitar so they should fit well within.
The other slight concern is that I read a few posts saying that the VHII kinda shows up mistakes.
More than other BKPs ???
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The other slight concern is that I read a few posts saying that the VHII kinda shows up mistakes.
More than other BKPs ???
Yeah, I wasn't sure how to take that but a few posts I read said it. It's not a problem I've had with either the Miracle Man or Holydiver so perhaps it's not an issue.
You're right that for a mahogany guitar, the CU24 isn't all that dark at all. The word 'warm' might be a better description as I don't find it massively darker than my Jackson (a bit perhaps) but certainly warmer and I'd like to keep that. The Crawlers do sound good but I had assumed they would be better in a bolt-on Strat and possibly close enough to the Holydiver/Emerald combo that I might as well stick to that.
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Holydivers aren't "crisp" to my ears, so I'm not sure it's what you want in the bridge?
Given that it's a Cu24, and you have the option to keep the split coils, I'd get a set of VHIIs.
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I don't have a clear "picture" in my head of what distinguishes the VHII neck pickup from the other vintage to vintage hot models, but if I was ordering a set of humbuckers with the VHII in the bridge I would probably just go for a calibrated VHII set.
Failing that, the other "safe" option would be a Mule neck which is going to go with pretty much anything outside of the Contemporay range (and probably many within the Contemporary range too).
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Holydivers aren't "crisp" to my ears, so I'm not it's what you want in the bridge?
Given that it's a Cu24, and you have the option to keep the split coils, I'd get a set of VHIIs.
It's only an SE Custom 24 so it's a straightforward 3-way toggle, though a push/pull is easily installed.
I think my real problem is that I'm torn two ways. I've had a Holydiver before in my Jackson and I really loved it because it was versatile, articulate and thick, with loads of great tone. Don't get me wrong, for what I use the Jackson for, the Miracle Man suits me better but I do miss the Holydiver. However, there's no getting away from the fact that the Holydiver, like my Miracle Man, is a modern pickup that is aimed more at Metal and I want to have a bigger spread of tones between my two guitars and that means I need something that is warm, organic, quite thick sounding, very articulate and with more of a vintage vibe so it's more Blues to very early 80's Metal. From what I can gather, that could well describe the VHII perfectly so it clearly makes sense. Is that an accurate description?
So far so good. The complication arises because with the neck pickup, I'm far more drawn towards the Emerald than the VHII. Listening to the clips, the Emerald is exactly what I want whereas the VHII is just kinda close. What I really need is a pickup for the bridge that is sort of like the VHII (assuming my description of it accurately reflects what it is like) but hot enough to go with an Emerald neck. I've trawled around the website and I can't find a likely candidate. In the contemporary section, the Rebel Yell and Cold Sweat seem too bright and the Crawler is maybe a bit too soft in the bass. In the Vintage Hot section, the Emerald bridge seems too bright as well, the Abraxas is also a bit soft in the bass and the Black Dog's description of 'aggressive' and 'throaty' puts me off, even assuming it was hot enough to live with the Emerald neck.
I'm stumped! MY options seem to be either getting a bridge pickup that suits what I'm after and compromising on the neck or getting the ideal neck pickup for what I want and trying a compromise with the bridge. It looks like I'll be left trying to find the option that is the least compromise but at this stage I just don't know.
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You've just re-described the bridge tone you're looking for and have removed crisp? :?
If that's the case, what about a set of Emeralds?
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lol, sorry, it wasn't an intentional omission, I simply wrote down the words that came to mind at the time but to me, a pickup that is 'crisp' is not massively removed from one that is very articulate. Describing sound is VERY difficult :)
The Emerald bridge did cross my mind but I'd dismissed it, partly because the EQ seemed a bit too bright to give it the big sound I like and partly because nobody had mentioned it previously so I assumed it clearly wasn't what I was after. Part of the reason I always liked the Holydiver and I also like the Miracle Man is because they sound big and thick with very articulate bottom ends. That's the characteristic that has always drawn me towards the tone of Gibsons with players like John Sykes, Slash and especially Gary Moore. The specific tones of the players change but they all seem to have a wonderfully rich, thick and very articulate sound to them. Unfortunately, although I love the sound of a Gibson, I really don't like playing them so I'm left trying to get as close as I can to it using the guitars I do like and in this case, that's a PRS.
That probably hasn't helped! :shock:
EDIT: I just found a thread discussing a similar issue and the guy said he also liked a big sound so the description of VHII's as 'singlecoilish' put him off and I suppose it would me too, though it seems odd as I've equally read the VHII as having a 'big' sound. The alternatives put forward there were the Emerald and the Abraxas so perhaps the Emerald isn't as bright as I'd feared and perhaps the Abraxas has more articulation in the bass than I thought.
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Have you tried the Holydiver bridge you had in the Jackson in the PRS? I would do that first before taking any further decisions.
Cheers Stephan
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Sadly, no. I meant to but I knew I wanted a different finish for the PRS and the opportunity came up to sell it so I did that before I had a chance to try it in the PRS.
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OK, I see. Well then, why not try a set of Emeralds. If the bridge is too bright you can still exchange it for a Holydiver.
Cheers Stephan
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I still think a VHII will fit you best. I'd be worried that the HD and the MM will cover too much of the same ground, and you'd be using one guitar too much over the other. With the VHII, obviously you could go heavy with it if you wanted, but I think you'd be more comfortable keeping it in the lower gain area of material, and higher gain for the MM.
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I can't deny the logic of that. At the moment I seem to have a few options flying around in my head.
Holydiver/Emerald - Certainly good but as you say, perhaps too similar to the Miracle Man.
Emerald set - Perfect neck but is the bridge 'big' enough due to its bright nature? I know very little of the bridge version.
VHII set - Great tone but with the single coil comparisons, is that going to be too thin and I'm compromising the neck?
Abraxas/Emerald - Is the bridge too tame and soft?
Abraxas set - Sounds good but same issue as the previous option and I understand the neck is very different to the Emerald.
Crawler/Emerald - Great neck and a hot bridge. If the bridge is articulate enough (I really hate mush of any kind) it could work.
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Emerald set - Perfect neck but is the bridge 'big' enough due to its bright nature? I know very little of the bridge version.
VHII set - Great tone but with the single coil comparisons, is that going to be too thin and I'm compromising the neck?
There are at least a couple overly heavy metal bands playing emerald bridges so I can only imagine it's thick. Plus, I've seen descriptions of it being big in the low end while staying bright on top.
Also the VHII is asymmetrically wound so even coil split people have said the neck is pretty big.
Why not VHII bridge and Emerald neck? It seems like what you want, and as long as you don't use the bridge for cleans there won't be too much of a volume difference. Just make the gain channel slightly louder. Or ask for just a slightly hotter VHII, you're a returning customer maybe such a small adjustment will be made haha. Not that I can speak for the team.
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I just found a thread discussing a similar issue and the guy said he also liked a big sound so the description of VHII's as 'singlecoilish' put him off and I suppose it would me too, though it seems odd as I've equally read the VHII as having a 'big' sound.
The VHII sounds "big" in the sense that, because the two coils are wound very differently, they pick up different frequencies and the pickup as a whole covers a wider frequency range - a symmetrically-wound humbucker not only cancels hum but seems to cancel (or suppress?) certain frequencies to give that characteristically fat but "tight" humbucker sound. Which I guess is what people mean when they say "compressed".
To put it another way, the VHII sounds "open" and that's the sense in which it's more like a single-coil. "Single-coil-ish" may bring to mind a bright, low-output Fender pickup but in this context I'm thinking more of a P-90 - which certainly sounds both "big" and "open".
Everyone else may totally disagree with all that, but that's how I see it anyway.
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As much as I love the holy diver, I might just agree with these guys. I don't think that the emerald will actually be too bright but the emerald night bit be very thick from what I've heard if it it seems to have a bump in the high mids and the low mids scooped out, as far as I can tell, which is what makes it seem bright.
Knowing that you already love the holy diver gives you solid ground to stand on if you don't like your first choice. You can always just swap it.
Whilst the emerald will certainly giv you that "Gibson" tone that you like I have a feeling that the VHII might fit you better... Just a gut feeling TBH. But the emerald certainly won't disappoint... And if you do get the calibrated set then you'll already have the Emerald neck, which is an original preference.
Sorry if this was difficult to understand... I'm very tired.
I wouldn't get the crawler in your position.
The abraxas does look attractive but it might be TOO soft in the leads. If I were to get it I'd get a mule neck though.
Ninja'd 3 times while tryin to post!!
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Why not VHII bridge and Emerald neck? It seems like what you want, and as long as you don't use the bridge for cleans there won't be too much of a volume difference. Just make the gain channel slightly louder. Or ask for just a slightly hotter VHII, you're a returning customer maybe such a small adjustment will be made haha. Not that I can speak for the team.
Reasonable idea, but I don't think the VHII can be wound any hotter, it's about as hot as you can get using the vintage 42AWG plain enamel wire - the bobbins (or at least one of them) are literally full! It is a true "vintage hot" pickup. Everything higher up the output scale uses a thinner wire.
That's my understanding anyway.
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Why not VHII bridge and Emerald neck? It seems like what you want, and as long as you don't use the bridge for cleans there won't be too much of a volume difference. Just make the gain channel slightly louder. Or ask for just a slightly hotter VHII, you're a returning customer maybe such a small adjustment will be made haha. Not that I can speak for the team.
Reasonable idea, but I don't think the VHII can be wound any hotter, it's about as hot as you can get using the vintage 42AWG plain enamel wire - the bobbins (or at least one of them) are literally full! It is a true "vintage hot" pickup. Everything higher up the output scale uses a thinner wire.
That's my understanding anyway.
Slightly lower Emerald? Who knows? Plus with the Emerald neck being AIV I doubt there will be as much of a difference as if it was AV
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I think you could be right - as I understand it, there's not very much perceived difference in "output" between the VHII bridge at 9k and the Emerald bridge at 13k.
The VHII bridge might well be OK with the Emerald neck. I'nm sure the chaps at BKP could advise one way or the other.
(I could find out myself, if I could be bothered to wire them up! :lol: )
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As usual, the advice and ideas here are extremely helpful and I am very grateful. I'm a pain when it comes to choosing pickups - it's so much easier giving advice, lol. Anyway, I do feel like I've moved on a bit. There doesn't appear to be much love for the Crawler/Emerald option, Abraxas set or Abraxas/Emerald option here so let's discount those. Although I am tempted by the 'safe' Holydiver/Emerald option, I suspect that if I went that route, I'd spend the next few years kicking myself for not taking a punt on something different. That leaves me with two of my original options and plus an additional one I'll need to investigate further.
VHII set - Phil's explanation of why it sounds 'big' was, as usual, very helpful and well informed. It sounds like it's a bit like having two individual single coils, each with their own character, stuck together in a humbucker and I can see that this might offer some very interesting and 'big' sounds. My experience of P90's is very limited indeed but the one I have played more than just in passing was pretty good. It was more 'dirty' and 'angry' than a traditional humbucker or single coil. It had a rawness about it that was quite appealing so that description does make the bridge sound attractive. If anyone's tried an Emerald neck and VHII neck I'd love to hear how they compare.
Emerald set - I do love the tone of both the bridge and neck versions and I can believe that it may not be as bright as the EQ chart suggests, given that all the BKP models I've tried have been more balanced than expected. The bridge sounds more modern and tighter than the VHII to me and I assume that's why itamar101 is thinking I may prefer the VHII. The Emerald bridge always seems a bit under-represented here so it's hard to get accurate information but again, if there's anyone tried both the Emerald and VHII bridge models, I'd love to learn more about how they compare.
VHII bridge/Emerald neck - Yes, this does seem like a very logical option so I'll ask BKP about it :D
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Bloody hell, does the man never rest!! Just got a reply from Tim:
'I can't make a VHII any hotter - it's maxed out already but as you can hear in the clips, it's a powerful and full(not single coil-like) sounding hot PAF tone.
No problem using a VHII bridge and Emerald neck together - although the DC readings make the neck appear hotter that's only because of the wire gauge used, in practice the bridge would be more powerful.
Yes the Emerald bridge does reproduce a full Gibson tone - it's the same spec as Gibson humbuckers referred to as 'rocker's used in LP Customs in the late '70s.If you're worried the bridge is a bit bright(tone chart is bang on actually based on the LP I used for the soundclips)move up the scale to a Rebel Yell - same wire and magnets but a hotter wind for more punch in the mids.'
The Emerald sounds good for the Gibson tone but I think I have to be mindful of the fact that my PRS SE isn't as dark as a Les Paul. His comments about the Rebel Yell are interesting as it sounds a lot more like an Emerald than I thought. I was under the impression it was based on a Nailbomb and given my experience with that pickup, I'd assumed the Rebel Yell would be too aggressive, tight and not like a PAF. I'll try to find out more about it as it's really not a pickup I've spent much time considering. At the moment I'm inclined to go VHII/Emerald but also thinking about Rebel Yell/Emerald.
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VERY interesting! It's amazing how much this man is capable of teaching you without going into detail.
Happy to know that I was right about the whole "emerald is very close to the Gibson rock tone" thing!
I think you'll find that most Lep Pauls nowadays are actually reasonably bright so the emerald should be a nice match.
I would still go for the VHII/Emerald combo but I definately wouldn't rule out the emerald or rebel yell bridge.
Ah, also happy to know that I was right about the emerald bridge not having as much mids and therefore not being as thick sounding/seeming brighter.
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Listening to a load of clips now. The only thing I've decided so far is that the Rebel Yell is out. It's got a fantastic tone but for what I want I think it's too hot and aggressive. Some of the Emerald clips I've found in the players section are amazing. It doesn't sound as bright as I thought it would. Some clips by Machinehead have really got me thinking again about an Emerald set.
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11661.0
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Yes the Emerald bridge does reproduce a full Gibson tone - it's the same spec as Gibson humbuckers referred to as 'rocker's used in LP Customs in the late '70s.If you're worried the bridge is a bit bright(tone chart is bang on actually based on the LP I used for the soundclips)move up the scale to a Rebel Yell - same wire and magnets but a hotter wind for more punch in the mids.'
I hope the Emerald doesn't sound too much like the Rebel Yell, or my Emerald bridge may be for sale soon if I ever actually get round to fitting it!
Hopefully I'll like it better with less punch in the mids.
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Don't know if you've heard this Emerald clip - it's 7 years old but one of my favourites, especially for the solo on the neck pickup:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=343.0 (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=343.0)
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Listening to a load of clips now. The only thing I've decided so far is that the Rebel Yell is out. It's got a fantastic tone but for what I want I think it's too hot and aggressive. Some of the Emerald clips I've found in the players section are amazing. It doesn't sound as bright as I thought it would. Some clips by Machinehead have really got me thinking again about an Emerald set.
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11661.0
Wow! That's sounds awesome!
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Wow! That's sounds awesome!
Yes, that's EXACTLY my reaction. Now you can see why an Emerald set is now very firmly back in consideration! I know those clips are using a Les Paul but it doesn't sound as bright as I'd feared. I had heard that clip you mentioned Phil and you're right; like all of the Emerald clips, the tone is just incredible.
Philly - Based on the two pages of clips I've just listened to of the Emerald, it's a lot creamier, smoother and more PAF-like than the Rebel Yell. The Rebel Yell doesn't seem to be as aggressive and edgy as the Nailbomb but it reminds me more of that than the Emerald so I wouldn't worry. This is of course assuming you ever get it from under the bed and fit it 8)
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Don't know if you've heard this Emerald clip - it's 7 years old but one of my favourites, especially for the solo on the neck pickup:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=343.0 (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=343.0)
I feel a bit arrogant saying this but... In reference to Alex's thread about getting that GnR rock tone... This shows my reasoning. This is slash to the last coil spin and I am certain that no other pickup in the range will do GnR better.
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From what I've read it would seem that that the Rebel Yell was a variation of the original Holy Diver, not the Nailbomb. So if you like the HD.............. The RY can be aggressive but it doesn't have to be that way depending on your amp settings. Good luck with whatever you decide on.
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Philly - Based on the two pages of clips I've just listened to of the Emerald, it's a lot creamier, smoother and more PAF-like than the Rebel Yell. The Rebel Yell doesn't seem to be as aggressive and edgy as the Nailbomb but it reminds me more of that than the Emerald so I wouldn't worry. This is of course assuming you ever get it from under the bed and fit it 8)
That sounds more to my taste than the RY was! :D
I should say.... I'm often a bit negative about the RY, it was my least favourite of the BKPs I've owned but when I first got it there was a huge difference from the 498T it replaced. Ultimately, though, I guess it was a bit too "modern" for me.
(Incidentally, the Emeralds aren't under the bed, in fact I can see the box from where I'm sitting here in the living room. I know where they're going now, just need to get round to fitting them.... which is a big "just", I know.... :lol: )
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Well, it's late, I'm tired and I think I must have listened to most of the clips on this website but it has been a very illuminating experience. Of the three options I had it down to, the Rebel Yell was just too modern and aggressive. In its own right it's a great pickup but it's not for what I want in this guitar. If I was looking for a Rock/Metal pickup in a mahogany guitar I'd maybe choose it over the Nailbomb because it's not as hairy but like Phil, it's just not my thing.
The clips for both the VHII and Emerald were fantastic and in many ways it's a very hard choice as they're both so good. My choice is down to nothing other than my gut. Both were great but only the Emerald had that 'WOW!' factor when I listened to virtually every clip. Will it be too bright in a PRS? I certainly hope not. Unfortunately, all of the clips that specified the guitar used involved some sort of Les Paul so perhaps I'll be pioneering new ground by putting one into a PRS but it sounds so good that I think I need to at least give it a try. What really tipped me over the edge was the clips I put a link to and the one Phil posted a link for. Between those clips the Emerald seemed to cover Slash, Gary Moore and Santana and that's three of my favourite tones. I think I have the money saved for them now but I may need to wait until I'm paid. I'll check in the morning and order them asap.
Many thanks to everyone who has helped in this difficult choice. It is very much appreciated I assure you. Now let's see if I can get mine installed before Phil does his :D
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Well, it's late, I'm tired and I think I must have listened to most of the clips on this website but it has been a very illuminating experience. Of the three options I had it down to, the Rebel Yell was just too modern and aggressive. In its own right it's a great pickup but it's not for what I want in this guitar. If I was looking for a Rock/Metal pickup in a mahogany guitar I'd maybe choose it over the Nailbomb because it's not as hairy but like Phil, it's just not my thing.
The clips for both the VHII and Emerald were fantastic and in many ways it's a very hard choice as they're both so good. My choice is down to nothing other than my gut. Both were great but only the Emerald had that 'WOW!' factor when I listened to virtually every clip. Will it be too bright in a PRS? I certainly hope not. Unfortunately, all of the clips that specified the guitar used involved some sort of Les Paul so perhaps I'll be pioneering new ground by putting one into a PRS but it sounds so good that I think I need to at least give it a try. What really tipped me over the edge was the clips I put a link to and the one Phil posted a link for. Between those clips the Emerald seemed to cover Slash, Gary Moore and Santana and that's three of my favourite tones. I think I have the money saved for them now but I may need to wait until I'm paid. I'll check in the morning and order them asap.
Many thanks to everyone who has helped in this difficult choice. It is very much appreciated I assure you. Now let's see if I can get mine installed before Phil does his :D
Good luck! It definately seems like a good choice. I love my neck Emerald and I'm sure the bridge is just as good!
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Many thanks to everyone who has helped in this difficult choice. It is very much appreciated I assure you. Now let's see if I can get mine installed before Phil does his :D
I don't think there's any doubt you'll beat me to it! :lol:
Mine will be going in a PRS too, I'll be very interested to hear what you think.
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From what I've read it would seem that that the Rebel Yell was a variation of the original Holy Diver, not the Nailbomb. So if you like the HD..............
well, as far as I remember, the original holy diver was an underwound ceramic nailbomb
and it was renamed... taddaaaaa... COLD SWEAT... which has the same specs as the rebel yell, except for the magnet
the new 16k alnico holy diver is a whole different pickup (different wire type and gauge, magnet size, dc reading), but it was also one of the rebel yell prototypes and candidate to be the steve stevens signature pickup... the "alnico cold sweat" won, so it became the rebel yell and the loser became the new spec holy diver
now take a deep breath and read this again slowly... :lol:
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I don't think there's any doubt you'll beat me to it! :lol:
Mine will be going in a PRS too, I'll be very interested to hear what you think.
Well, the order is in for a calibrated set of zebra Emeralds and I'll get them installed asap so if you're going to beat me, you'd better get moving :D Once I've had a chance to play around with them for a while I'll write a detailed review as usual, you can be sure of that.
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Once I've had a chance to play around with them for a while I'll write a detailed review as usual, you can be sure of that.
Can't wait! :D I've been thinking about ordering a calibrated set for my Standard 24 (all mahogany). I guess I'll wait for the review before I place the order :drink:
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It would be my pleasure to help :D If they work in mine I'm sure they'll work even better in yours as my guitar is probably a bit brighter so yours will be closer to the Les Paul they're aimed at.
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I don't think there's any doubt you'll beat me to it! :lol:
Mine will be going in a PRS too, I'll be very interested to hear what you think.
Well, the order is in for a calibrated set of zebra Emeralds and I'll get them installed asap so if you're going to beat me, you'd better get moving :D Once I've had a chance to play around with them for a while I'll write a detailed review as usual, you can be sure of that.
I'll leave you to it, I'm not the competitive type. :wink:
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That, I can believe! :D
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Arrived this morning and looking good. They seem a bit overwound as the neck is 10k and the bridge is 13.7k but I assume that's because I told them they were going in a PRS SE which is rather brighter than a Les Paul so perhaps they adjusted the wind to compensate. Unfortunately I don't really get the technical side of it so I'm not sure. Anyway, I'll have to see when I can get them fitted :D
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I'm off to fit mine now!
(Not really)
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Arrived this morning and looking good. They seem a bit overwound as the neck is 10k and the bridge is 13.7k but I assume that's because I told them they were going in a PRS SE which is rather brighter than a Les Paul so perhaps they adjusted the wind to compensate. Unfortunately I don't really get the technical side of it so I'm not sure. Anyway, I'll have to see when I can get them fitted :D
My neck pickup was also wound at 10k. It's really not much of a difference I'd assume. I've never tried the bridge emerald but is trust BKP :)
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Well, they're in but I've not had much time to play with them so far so no detailed review yet. My initial impression is that I like the neck better than the bridge but both are good. The neck is very round and creamy but with loads of articulation; far more than the VB that was in there. Does a superb clean tone too that you can get to sound very like an acoustic. The bridge is certainly a bright pickup and again very clearly defined. I can see why it's used in 7 and 8 string guitars and I have no doubt it could do some lower tunings. At the moment there's so much treble in it that it's lacking a bit of body in the tone but it's too early to say if that means it has to go back. I'll mess around with the EQ settings tomorrow and see if that helps things along. I like the more vintage tone for sure so I just need to see if I can get a bit more thickness into it. I hope so because I love the core tone and if not, I guess it will have to be changed for the Holydiver.
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With new pickups you often have to adjust ampsettings. I would fidlle with the height too to find the sweet spot. I spend quite some time to get my Crawler in this sweet zone.
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Arrived this morning and looking good. They seem a bit overwound as the neck is 10k and the bridge is 13.7k but I assume that's because I told them they were going in a PRS SE which is rather brighter than a Les Paul so perhaps they adjusted the wind to compensate. Unfortunately I don't really get the technical side of it so I'm not sure. Anyway, I'll have to see when I can get them fitted :D
My neck pickup was also wound at 10k. It's really not much of a difference I'd assume. I've never tried the bridge emerald but is trust BKP :)
Mine are 12.7k and 9.6k (according to the warranty card).
Interesting to read your initial comments about the pickups. It sounds like there's a good contrast between neck and bridge, which I like; but if the bridge is too bright I may try it in my McCarty Korina, which has a slightly softer, sweeter acoustic tone due to the lack of a maple top.
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I'd mess with the pickup height a bit. It does wonders even with the worst of pickups, and the emerald is certainly not bad!
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I've messed around with all sorts but it's still bright. Tim said that there may be something on the volume pot that makes PRS guitars unusually bright and it should be removed. I didn't really notice anything but electronics isn't really my thing. My gut tells me that the volume pot is the key in the PRS but I'm away on holiday at the weekend so I can't afford to wait while I mess around with pots to see if it works so it is with some regret that I've decided to take the safe option and switch the bridge to a Holydiver. That way I can get the Emerald bridge returned in plenty of time and to be doubly sure I'm going to order new 550k pots and a 0.022 Jensen cap for it as well. I know the Holydiver will work as I remember reading that it was one of Twinfan's favourites in a PRS and upgrading the pots can only improve matters.
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I've messed around with all sorts but it's still bright. Tim said that there may be something on the volume pot that makes PRS guitars unusually bright and it should be removed. I didn't really notice anything but electronics isn't really my thing. My gut tells me that the volume pot is the key in the PRS but I'm away on holiday at the weekend so I can't afford to wait while I mess around with pots to see if it works so it is with some regret that I've decided to take the safe option and switch the bridge to a Holydiver. That way I can get the Emerald bridge returned in plenty of time and to be doubly sure I'm going to order new 550k pots and a 0.022 Jensen cap for it as well. I know the Holydiver will work as I remember reading that it was one of Twinfan's favourites in a PRS and upgrading the pots can only improve matters.
I'm really sorry to hear that. :( However, I googled your guitar and it seems that it also has a maple neck, which should be taken into account as most PRSi have mahogany necks (or rosewood... basically, NOT maple :D ) So, maple top, maple neck, and a slice of mahogany for the back of the body. That would, indeed, make for a bright sounding guitar. I have a Holydiver in a SG supreme (mahogany back/maple top, mahogany neck/ebony board) and it sounds great, so it should sound pretty good in your PRS.
Anyway, since my Standard 24 is all mahogany, I guess I should still go for Emeralds, although I'm a bit hesitant, since I also do not like too much treble. :?
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In an all mahogany guitar I think it should be fine and there's always that adjustment you can make to the volume pot. It seems PRS set it up so that treble bleeds straight to the jack socket for some reason and that can make them brighter. I wish I could give you more detail but it was electronics so Tim spoke and I glazed over :? If I had more time I'd have investigated it further but my holiday means I'm on a tight timeline to return this thing and I reason it was always a close call between the Emerald and Holydiver anyway so I'm not that bothered.
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Anyway, since my Standard 24 is all mahogany, I guess I should still go for Emeralds, although I'm a bit hesitant, since I also do not like too much treble. :?
I doubt it'll be too bright in a Standard 24, the all-mahogany construction will make quite a difference.
FWIW, I'll be putting Cold Sweats in my Standard 22, the bridge is (probably) at least as bright as the Emerald bridge.
Regarding the volume pot thing - PRS use a treble bleed capacitor so you lose less treble when the volume pot is turned down. It shouldn't make much, if any, difference with the volume on 10.
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In that case the Emerald was certainly too bright in the bridge of a PRS SE but I'll keep the neck Emerald as I'm guessing that should be OK.
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I doubt it'll be too bright in a Standard 24, the all-mahogany construction will make quite a difference.
FWIW, I'll be putting Cold Sweats in my Standard 22, the bridge is (probably) at least as bright as the Emerald bridge.
Actually, I already tried a bridge CS in my PRS. The top wasn't to bright but it was too scooped. However, I doubt that the CS is brighter than an Emerald, even though the tone chart on the site says so. I asked Tim how a CS and a Mule would compare in terms of brightness. Tim said that "The Mule would be considerably brighter than a Cold Sweat." Hmmm.... even though the tone chart shows the CS to be brighter?!? That leads me to belive that the charts aren't that useful if your comparing a contemporary and a vintage output pickup. Which, honestly, can be very confusing. So, the Emerald, being a vintage hot pickup, is probably brighter than a CS. This is all just speculation though :)
I wish I could give you more detail but it was electronics so Tim spoke and I glazed over :? If I had more time I'd have investigated it further but my holiday means I'm on a tight timeline to return this thing and I reason it was always a close call between the Emerald and Holydiver anyway so I'm not that bothered.
No sweat man! I think you'll be very happy with the Holydiver and that's all that matters when you're spending big bucks on gear. It should mix well with your guitar's construction and woods.
Enjoy your holiday! :D
P.S.: I can still expect a detailed review of the neck Emerald, right? 8)
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Actually, I already tried a bridge CS in my PRS. The top wasn't to bright but it was too scooped. However, I doubt that the CS is brighter than an Emerald, even though the tone chart on the site says so. I asked Tim how a CS and a Mule would compare in terms of brightness. Tim said that "The Mule would be considerably brighter than a Cold Sweat." Hmmm.... even though the tone chart shows the CS to be brighter?!? That leads me to belive that the charts aren't that useful if your comparing a contemporary and a vintage output pickup. Which, honestly, can be very confusing. So, the Emerald, being a vintage hot pickup, is probably brighter than a CS. This is all just speculation though :)
Yeah, it is confusing, isn't it?
I don't pay much attention to the tone charts, except to get a vague idea of how bassy, trebly or middy a pickup is. Certainly don't use them to compare one pickup to another, unless they're pretty similar to begin with (like some of the Strat pickups, for example)
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I have rebel yells in my PRS Standard and they sound great. My emeralds are all in Les Pauls, where they perform excellently (though one of them is an all mahogany body and mahogany/ebony neck). My cold sweats are in a BC Rich Mockingbird, which is again a mahogany guitar, and they work really well in that, giving me anything from metal to blues (partly due to the varitone and preamp).
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Finding this thread interesting as I just got a set of VHii's for a PRS Mccarty and have the same issue. The neck is an absolute beast of a pickup very full and fat, very nice. I do find the bridge a little bright but very thin when soloing. They just don't feel as there from the same set. Been fiddling with height ever since.
Interesting to see if you send it back or not.
As you don't use the coil split, what about trying to disconnect the neck pick up from the tone knob? You might be able to roll off the highs on the bridge and the neck might get a touch brighter as it would be like a no load circuit?
I would try this myself but I love the coil split tone of the neck too much.
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Finding this thread interesting as I just got a set of VHii's for a PRS Mccarty and have the same issue. The neck is an absolute beast of a pickup very full and fat, very nice. I do find the bridge a little bright but very thin when soloing. They just don't feel as there from the same set. Been fiddling with height ever since.
Interesting to see if you send it back or not.
As you don't use the coil split, what about trying to disconnect the neck pick up from the tone knob? You might be able to roll off the highs on the bridge and the neck might get a touch brighter as it would be like a no load circuit?
I would try this myself but I love the coil split tone of the neck too much.
I have a set of VHII's in a PRS CU22 and bridge is not thin. Sounds like you might have a wiring issue. The McCarty should be a a pinch fuller than the CU22.
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Hmm, i'm glad you said that, it does not sound right to me, I did ask Tim about it as it was making a hum also, just like my strat so I took it to a guy who re soldered it all back up and said it was fine.
Sorry did not mean to hijack the thread, I should start a new post about this I think.