Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Jappse on February 17, 2006, 10:46:37 PM
-
What is the benefits with wrapping the strings around the bridge. I see Zakk and Tim does it, but what good does it do?
-
supposedly, it increases sustain, but I've never tried it.
-
It lets you have the tailpiece closer to the body without having as sharp an angle. Apparently this increases sustain but I still havent tried it.
-
You can also use it to rake the strings and do dive bombs and generally make cool sounds!
-
You can also use it to rake the strings and do dive bombs and generally make cool sounds!
:o How do you do these divebombs on an lp!?!?!
-
So what do you have to do when wrapping the strings around the bar??
And how DO you do divebombs on LP`s??
-
Basically you just put the strings in "backwards", so they are facing the bottom of the guitar, then wrap em over and string normally. I've read that sometimes it helps to put an extra ball end over the string to act as a spacer, so the string doesnt bend over the "knotted" part if you know what I mean?
-
How do you do these divebombs on an lp!?!?!
Instead of bending the string behind the nut, you press on the string behind the bridge.
Maybe not as extreme a divebomb as a floyd loaded guitar, but effective nontheless.
Wrapping the string around the tail piece, I think, reduces the string tension, as you don't have as sharp an angle from the tail to the bridge. All my LP-a-likes tail's are low, but I'm using a lower tuning, so I need the string tension.
-
Doesn't that make the note go up instead of down?
-
Thats what I thought Ratrod :lol:
-
It does. I do it quite a lot when I want to put small bends on open strings, bending behind the nut always seems to throw me out of tune. I really don't see how divebombs are possible on an lp without bending the neck.
-
I do that on my LP's too, it seems to reduce the tension a little and I find the string angle is better for muting.
-
I read somewhere that it was supposed to help with string breakage over the bridge saddles as well, due to the angle from the saddles to the tailpiece being more shallow, whether it works I don't know.
-
yeah, it probably does actually.
-
I read somewhere that it was supposed to help with string breakage over the bridge saddles as well, due to the angle from the saddles to the tailpiece being more shallow, whether it works I don't know.
Yes it's the benefit of wraparound. Less string breakage.
-
I also think there is a different acoustic tone with wrap versus unwrapped. I do the wrap, have done for the 12 years I've had my LP.
:twisted:
-
Your all almost there....
Here are two Quotes from a different forum. I'd like to take credit for them but hey I usually dont pay this much attention to my bridge :roll:
1) The theory is that with a shallower break angle over the saddles, there will be less friction, allowing the length of string behind the bridge to stretch more along with the speaking length when the string is bent. This makes for the perception of easier bends... and even a slightly softer fretting action in some cases. The irony is that for the same change in pitch, you'll actually have to bend the string further ! So any gains are probably negated.
One real benefit of the reduced break angle [and consequent reduction in downforce over the saddle] is a reduction in the incidence of broken strings for those more ...errm...energetic players amongst us.
Top wrapping the stop bar may also result in a slightly softer tone, as a little less energy will be transferred to the structure of the guitar via the saddles. The audible effects are very subtle though
and
2)There are two benefits if you are willing to accept them as benefits.
One is that you can screw the tailpiece all the way down onto the body of the guitar without having the strings touch the back of the bridge. The bridge to the body is called 'coupling' and many players think that the more tightly coupled the tailpiece is to the body the better sustain well be generated.
The other is that you don't have to fight/push as hard on the strings when bending them. This is the so-called 'slinky' feeling. As mentioned already, this new ease of bending requires that you push a string farther to get to the same note as you would without topwrapped strings. (Note that this slinky effect can be achieve also by raising the tailpiece really high. The point here is simply that the strings do not as sharp of a break angle over the saddles. Less break angle, more slinky feel. More break angle, stiffer feel.)
Here's a nice old bit from past forum member Guildx700:
=========================================
Here's my answer about this copied from another thread, regarding string tension, stoptail height and such......
"Yes, the fact is...... it is 100% true a specific string requires a specific tension for a specific note.
Now....the saddle is normally the end of the strings length,
it is the fixed point that terminates the strings length, correct?
Yes, correct...until you bend or press on the string.
Now all bets are off, why?
Because the saddles are not "locking" saddles(like, say a locking nut) the string length behind the saddle now comes into play.
Don't believe me? Fret a note, keep it fretted...now pluck it's string length behind the saddle...NOW....while bending that fretted note continue to pluck its string length behind the saddle.
What happens? The pitch of the string length behind the saddle raises as you bend the fretted note.
What does that tell you?
That once strings are bent or even pressed down to fret(which essentially is a tiny micro bend) the string length behind the saddles now comes into play here and is now part of the strings overall bending tension equation.
Now with this in mind, consider....
1. If the tension of the string length behind the saddle is high already due to the stoptail being set down tight to the body causing a sharp angle on that short length of string, what is going to happen when you bend(or fret)a note? It's going to "access" that higher behind the saddle tension and feel stiff when you bend it.
2. Conversely, if the stoptail is raised up the tension on that short length of string is now low, so now when you bend a note the "access" to that lower behind the saddle tension causes the bend to feel less stiff.
Of course you don't get something for nothing here.
A higher stoptail will make fretting feel easier and bends easier, but....the distance needed to bend to a specific pitch will now be greater.
Make sense?
This is one reason why different guitar designs feel different, and react to bending notes differently.Tuned to concert pitch different guitars with the same string set, same scale length, will have the same tension at concert pitch. Right?
Right.
Now, each may feel like there's a different tension when fretted or bending though, why?
The string length that is on each end, each terminating point of the string, be it a nut or saddle varies on different guitar designs.
Headstock pitch, tuner spacing and height on the peghead as well as string trees, stop tail or trapeze, or frequensator tailpieces, through body stringing, or a Fender Strat or Tele type bridge...all of these have different behind the strings terminating point string length and tensions."
Phew... thats a mouthful 8)
-
It all comes down to personal taste or feel, doesn't it. I tried wrapping the strings around but I simply didn't like the feel of it.
-
I suspect a few myths here. I can't see how wraparound saves string breakage, in fact putting a kink at the back of the stoptail sounds like a good way to inrease string breakage, not to mention the relatively sharp edge of the hole. If the problem causing string breakage is too much back angle after the bridge, raise the stop tail (as they're designed to do!) until the desired back angle is reached. Secondly string tension - scientifically the string tension required over a specific distance (bridge to nut) to produce any particular note remains static (for that length, note and string thickness. It has to, or the note would change). The pull on the string is a different matter, the longer the string, the greater the pull to obtain the same tension. Imagine a sting extending beyond the bridge for a couple of metres/yards - you'd have to wind the machine head a helluva lot more to provide the same tension over the scale length. Note also that the tension in the string is constant between the points it is fixed (with no locking system this is the tailpiece and the machine heads) thus there is no difference in the string tension behind the bridge and in front of it. It is therefore likely that the wraparound, unless it is effectively shortening the open string length, by creating a marginally longer string length than the standard string through, would require a greater effort to bend behind the bridge or on the fretboard.
Obviously guitars with the same scale but different string lengths will feel different. This has nothing to do with the tension of the string, but of the effort required to deflect the string, the longer the open length of the string, the greater the effort required.
-
Zakk Wylde claims that he breaks less strings by wrapping the strings over the bridge. Apparently you lower the bridge right down so it touches the body then string the instrument. Obviously it depends on how heavy your attack is on the string - Zakk hits the strings very hard.