Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: twistofcain on September 10, 2012, 08:52:52 PM
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Alright, after some research, and discovering I have a very local Bareknuckle dealer... I have decided I want some Bareknuckles in my Les Paul, but I'm torn between which one I want. The interest was sparked by trading my JCM800 2203x for an Orange AD140... And the guy used a Les Paul standard with a ceramic war pig in the bridge. I was really intrigued by the fact that he plugged straight into the Marshall, and it sounded just as gnarly as my Les Paul, and an overdrive up front.
What do I use?
Currently I use a Les Paul Traditional, through some pedals, and an Orange AD140 through an Orange 4x12 cabinet. I'm just using the stock pickups at the moment, which are a '57 classic plus in the bridge, and a '57 classic in the neck. I find the pickups lack overall low end/beef/balls, and have too much highs... And no where near enough output. These are some of the weakest pickups Gibson carries, and I HAVE to use an overdrive pedal... Not for gain... But just more UMPH and balls from my guitar tone. The guitar sounds very weak, and I need to crank the gain on my amp for harmonics.
Quick note about the AD140...
For an Orange, it doesn't have a hell of a lot of lows... And seems to have quite a bit of highs. I've been running my highs at about 9:00, and the bass full on. I like the way the EQ is voiced (low mids!) and the amount of gain, I just need more lows and less highs.
What I want out of a pickup, and my tone in general?
I need power and versatility. Currently I play lead guitar in a funky, old school hard rock band/metal band. We usually play in standard tuning, and play rocky stuff like Danzig, Kiss, Thin Lizzy, etc. We also play funkier/dancy RHCP kind of stuff, Sabbath, Orchid, Graveyard inspired rock, and some sludgy/doomy stuff with the low E dropped to B. I play lots of solos/leads... And love my wah pedal!
I'm also forming a stoner/doom/sludge kind of metal band. The Sword, Sleep, Baroness, Isis, Red Fang, Mastodon, kind of stuff. Tuning will probably be C standard. This is my favourite style to play.
So between the two bands I need everything from a classic rock tone, to a gnarly drop tuned, sludgy, beefy tone. I like a lot of lows, low mids, and hate highs... But I like to have just enough high mids to cut through. I don't use a very high gain tone, but would like a higher gain pickup to help with leads, harmonics, and overall grit, even if there isn't much gain. My ideal setup would be a really hot pick up, slamming into a boost pedal, slamming into my amp, and then using the appropriate amount of gain.
What I'm considering and why?
1. Ceramic Warpigs.
I've been interested in these cause I want a hot ass beefy pickup. I would rather have a pickup with too much output and just dial back my boost pedal and amp gain, rather than a pickup with too little output, which I have now... Just sounds very weak. I want to be able to use lower gain on my amp, but have enough output from my pickups to dig in a little harder and get some nice harmonics and such. It's not the gain I'm looking for... It's the beef, picking dynamics, and HEAT, I want my amp to get slammed. However, I've heard there could be an issue with them being a little muddy in Les Pauls, and the output could be too high to get a decent rock tone out of.
2. Ceramic Nailbombs.
I like that the EQ appears to be fairly flat, but still have lot's of mids. This way I can just adjust my amps EQ accordingly. Not as hot as the warpig, but still really hot. Also seems to be the top recommendation for Les Pauls.
3. Ceramic Aftermath.
Seems to be about the lowest output I would look into. This could be the best option for versatility, but I might want a bit more output for some of the heavier stuff I'd like to play. Might have too much treble too.
Sorry for the novel! You can't just try out pickups, so I only really have one shot at getting a set I like. And since I'm Canadian, I'll be dropping about $350 on the set. I just want to provide any information I can, and get the best possible advice.
Thanks!
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I'd go with a Holydiver. I have one in my LP Studio and love it.
The Holydiver has a very sweet top end and lots of low mids. It's fat and warm, but also very articulate.
I'm surprised how versatile the pickup is as well.
I was going to sell my LP, but the Holydiver kept me from selling it :lol:.
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Looks like it has a big mids emphasis, I can dig that!
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Seeing what type of music you're playing, I don't think those pickups will work very well. I personally think you're much better off getting a more vintage pickup and using a boost if necessary. It's much easier IMO to get a metal sound out of a vintage pickup than getting a vintagey or funky sound out of a pickup like the ones you've listed.
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alnico nailbomb
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For leads and versatility, holydiver hands down. Have one in my main gigging axe and it slays.
For sludge probably want something with a bit more openness in the middle, that being said the middle position between my HD bridge and duncan jazz has a surprising amount of twang. I know some sludge guys who are all about the mid position, but others would rather go straight bridge, if that is the case, perhaps black dog or vhii?
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I play sludge on a les paul traditional pro with mules going through an Orange AD30 combo, sometimes with an overdrive pedal and sometimes without. I too think you should have a look at the vintage or vintage hot p'ups, especially if you want to play classic rock aswell, since a really hot p'up might give you mastodon tones but probably not a baroness/thin lizzy one. I'd go with an abraxas, it's a beefier mule which i think would suit your needs very well, just use an overdrive for heavier stuff.
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I think I might look into some lower output pickups. I'm going to want some hotter pickups then what I have now though (8.7 bridge, 8.5 neck). Jammed tonight, and they just don't have enough umph.
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alnico nailbomb
explain?
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I have an Orange Rockerverb, and have played my LPs with Nailbomb, Rebel Yell and Miracel Man in them.
Personally I would go Nailbomb.
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Seeing what type of music you're playing, I don't think those pickups will work very well. I personally think you're much better off getting a more vintage pickup and using a boost if necessary. It's much easier IMO to get a metal sound out of a vintage pickup than getting a vintagey or funky sound out of a pickup like the ones you've listed.
That's my preference too. I think vintage(hot)-pickups work better on Oranges (I have a Rockerverb 50 head) anyway, but that is also just my taste. Besides that, the AD's sound a bit brighter then the Verbs-series and have less gain, so the A-Bomb would be good to hit the input hard.
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Looks like I'll be leaning towards the Alnico Nailbombs, or Alnico War Pigs.
I jammed last night. Stock pickups definitely lack low end, and power. I'm afraid the Nailbombs might have too much high emphasis, but the output seems right. I mainly want the War Pigs for the mids and lows. I could always dial back the gain and bass if need be right? I can't dial back the treble much more on my amp, so if the nail bombs have too much highs, I'm screwed haha.
I have a couple weeks before I make my order, right now I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for the Alnico War Pigs.
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the nailbomb isn't overly bright
it has a failry aggressive and slightly edgy top, but overall on the darker side and still gets smooth on leads
it's as punchy as a warpig, just not as fat in the lower mids (but close)
sounds pretty good for most of the bands you mentioned and can be much more versatile than a warpig
the neck nailbomb is VERY bright, though
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On second thought,
Since I'm most active in that rock band right now, maybe I should get a set that works best for that band... And then worry about getting some war pigs on my next guitar.
A bright neck pickup sounds intriguing, neck pickups always seem too muddy to me, so I don't usually bother with them.
Now I need to reevaluate what I'm looking for haha.
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A bright neck pickup sounds intriguing, neck pickups always seem too muddy to me, so I don't usually bother with them.
A bright neck could be nice for you, but if you go from usual stock pickups to BKPs the clarity and little extra top end they get from being scatterwound might suffice for your needs. I certainly would not call either my Mule or Aftermath neck anything close to muddy.
Basecally what I wanne say is that if these are your first BKPs, you might be suprised at the clarity (no muddy stuff anywhere).
So even if a bright neck really is for you, going for the brightest BKP neck might be overkill ;)
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You could consider a VHII- and a CS-neck too. Great cleans, but fluid leadtones.
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I'm torn between a high output and a low output! I don't know if I don't like low output pickups, or if I just don't like Gibsons low output pickups.
I had a JB in an LTD EC-400at (les paul shape) and I liked the output, just not the highs... Had too much highs, and was a little scooped too.
A beefier, hotter, less scooped JB would be rad!
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Alnico Nailbomb and VHII neck would be a nice combination.
Cheers Stephan
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I'm torn between a high output and a low output! I don't know if I don't like low output pickups, or if I just don't like Gibsons low output pickups.
I had a JB in an LTD EC-400at (les paul shape) and I liked the output, just not the highs... Had too much highs, and was a little scooped too.
A beefier, hotter, less scooped JB would be rad!
That'll be a holy diver.
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Holy Diver.
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I have a question. How was your JB scooped??? Mine was pretty much pure midrange.
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I just took a JB out of my LP and was stinking. Sterile, processd mids, kinda wish it was scooped. lol
Anyway, the Abraxas went in and won't be coming out.
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I have a question. How was your JB scooped??? Mine was pretty much pure midrange.
Mine too.
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I have a question. How was your JB scooped??? Mine was pretty much pure midrange.
Mine too.
Me too, wouldn't associate JB with scooped.
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Not scooped I guess, but the highs and lows were more pronounced. They were fine in standard tuning, but once you dropped the tuning, the highs were pretty piercing, and the lows got pretty flabby.
Another thing about my pickup choice, is they'll have to be able to sound good tuned down to around C standard.
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Holydiver is pretty tight it should hold up pretty well in lower tunings. One you may want to consider would be the Emerald, I just fitted one into my PRS SC245 and it's very tight I can see why people use it on 7 strings. EQ chart says it's bright but feels more articulate than bright in my axe, if your LP has some girth to it EM bridge could work out famously.
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I think I'm going to go for the alnico nailbomb, or alnico warpig set. I have just over 2 weeks to make a final decision.
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YOu certainly wont want a warpig in a les paul going into an orange.
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The ad 140 actually LACKS low end. It is just as bright as the JCM800 I traded for it. No loop to put an EQ in either. That's what sparked this whole thing haha.
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Really...? I've always thought that the AD was the darkest, softest and most open orange amp that i'd tried. I own a TH30 and I've tried out about half their range.
Of course i'm totally aware that i may be wrong because, especially with orange amps, they tend to sound very soft and lack high end until cranked at least a 1/4 way up... This may have been the case because I tried the AD quieter than usual...
Still... I think that the warpig might have too much low end.
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I'm gonna retube it soon and see if that helps. I'm not worried about the low end from the warpig, cause I can always turn my bass down. My bass is at full right now. The output might be a little high though, so maybe I can get an underwound set.
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YOu certainly wont want a warpig in a les paul going into an orange.
sounds like a perfect match to me :?
this with an OCD and C tuning should be stoner rock heaven
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I use a fulltone fulldrive 2 mosfet, and an MXR custom bad ass modified od. I keep the fulldrive on all the time, and use the MXR for more compression on certain parts.
I'll post a link to my band to get you an idea of the style I currently play. (this isn't stoner rock, but one song is)
http://cfox.supernova.com/DangerWoman (http://cfox.supernova.com/DangerWoman)
I am currently writing, and seeking members for a heavy $%&#ing stoner/sludge/hardcore/whatever band though.
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I have a question. How was your JB scooped??? Mine was pretty much pure midrange.
Mine too.
Me too, wouldn't associate JB with scooped.
Agree. I found the JB midrange to be bloaty and muddy.
Cheers Stephan
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I use a fulltone fulldrive 2 mosfet, and an MXR custom bad ass modified od. I keep the fulldrive on all the time, and use the MXR for more compression on certain parts.
I'll post a link to my band to get you an idea of the style I currently play. (this isn't stoner rock, but one song is)
http://cfox.supernova.com/DangerWoman (http://cfox.supernova.com/DangerWoman)
I am currently writing, and seeking members for a heavy $%&#ing stoner/sludge/hardcore/whatever band though.
"soul pains" is top notch :D
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I use a fulltone fulldrive 2 mosfet, and an MXR custom bad ass modified od. I keep the fulldrive on all the time, and use the MXR for more compression on certain parts.
I'll post a link to my band to get you an idea of the style I currently play. (this isn't stoner rock, but one song is)
http://cfox.supernova.com/DangerWoman (http://cfox.supernova.com/DangerWoman)
I am currently writing, and seeking members for a heavy $%&#ing stoner/sludge/hardcore/whatever band though.
Seems to be the favourite. Definitely the direction we're going in too.
"soul pains" is top notch :D
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I'll second the HD alternative. I have one in my Vintage Les Paul and it suits the guitar perfectly. I must say that the HDs turned it into my most versatile guitar. And especially with the neck pickup, which delivers some great warm tones, mostly when gain is backed down a notch.
The only thing the HDs doesn't deliver is the high end grit from the Nailbombs, so it's not really as aggressive for djenty tones. But that can also be from the nature of the Les Paul scale length.
I really dig my HDs in my lester, I can do anything with that guitar (almost :))