Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: nkay on January 09, 2013, 02:46:16 PM
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Hi guys, I have a 2011 Les Paul Traditional. At the time when I got it, I didn't like the 57 Classics in it, tonewise they seemed to be too muffled and too bright at the same time, and not enough output for what I was doing at the time (metal). So I replaced them with the tried and true Dimarzio Super Distortion bridge and PAF Pro in the neck.
Now I'm writing some more classic/hard rock stuff, and although these pickups are great for that, I'm looking for something with a bit more character, and less blasting output. In the BKP lineup, I'm considering the Mules, Riff Raff, and Black Dog.
I saw a comparison video with the Mules and the 57 Classics, and they seemed very close, although the BKP was more lively and organic in general. I saw another video that compared the Dimarzio 36th Anniversary PAFs with the Mules, and I quite liked the 36th Anniversaries in that comparison, they seemed to be the tone and output I was looking for. However, maybe the Mule's sound just as good with a bit of overdrive.
The Riff Raff seems a little too jangly and AC/DC-ish for me, so I've narrowed it down to the Black Dog as being something closer to what I'm looking for. There is not many videos of the Black Dog so it's hard for me to compare that to the 36th Anniversary. Does anyone have any experience in comparing those two pickups or what to expect from the Black Dog.
To give you an idea, the tone I'm really going for is early 70's Rush (think Working Man), and mid 70's UFO Michael Schenker (Lights Out, Rock Bottom, Can you Roll Her, Only you Can Rock Me etc...) I think those examples would have Gibson T-tops so whatever comes closest to that.
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I would definitely include the VHII in your shortlist as being "the hot PAF" in the BKP line. The neck pickup has more vintage character to it than the Black Dog neck, even though the Black Dog neck is a great pickup in its own right. If it's the Black Dog bridge you will settle on I have seen this combined with the Mule neck on this forum. No personal experience with those pickups yet, though.
Cheers Stephan
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Like Stephan, I'm gonna say VHII could work very well here.
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VHII neck would definitely do the trick, the Emerald bridge suits my needs for similar purposes as well
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Yes, looks like I overlooked the VHII. I guess (and it's not I hard) that I always associate the named pickup with it's intended sound and not its abilities, and Van Halen's brown sound doesn't describe at all what I'm looking for so I never even thought about it. I'm not too worried about the neck pickup, it's more about the bridge. There's just something awesome about that tone of a Gibson t-top through a plexi marshall in the early 70's. I know it's the amp too, but the pickups really help.
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Riff Raff is closest to T-Tops
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Riff Raff is closest to T-Tops
That's what I thought at first, but from videos that I've heard of the Riff Raff, it doesn't sound as thick (but I'm comparing sounds of entire rigs, not just the pickups though...) I guess until you've tried them in your own guitar/rig, you'll never know. That's why I liked the sound of the Dimarzio 36th anniversaries, they seemed to have an extra bit of thickness and not so jangly. Maybe that's a Dimarzio characteristic in general.
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Abraxas for me. The Mule is too similar to the '57 for a hotter replacement. VHII would work too.
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Abraxas-bridge and Mule-neck would be a great combo.
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Maybe I shouldn't be using the word HOT to describe what I want, I would like to stick in the 8-10k range in terms of DC resistance. I'm just a little stuck between so many options, and the Dimarzio Super Distortion I have is pretty fine, just want to get a little less hot, more vintagy, but still having soon oompf and bite without being bright. Something with some thickness but still snarly. (My non-technical musical descriptions!)
You guys may be right in terms of Riff Raff bridge, Mule Neck, or Abraxas bridge/Mule Neck. For some reason though the clips I heard of the Riff Raff were missing some oompf. I just listened to a few Abraxas clips and it is nice too, more oompf there, although I can tell it's getting hotter and closer to the Super D area.
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Thickness with some snarl (but not the RR) is a VHII. It's quite balanced: suffient bass, good mids, bright but not thrill topend. Feels hotter then the dc-resistance tells you. Not that far away from my Crawler outputwise. Really a good rockpickup, quite touchsensitive, a little dry compared to a Mule, outstandig solotones when you dig in. I have mine in an ash strat. It will sound bigger in a LP, I suppose.
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I have mine in an ash strat.
Van Halen tone???
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Maybe I shouldn't be using the word HOT to describe what I want, I would like to stick in the 8-10k range in terms of DC resistance. I'm just a little stuck between so many options, and the Dimarzio Super Distortion I have is pretty fine, just want to get a little less hot, more vintagy, but still having soon oompf and bite without being bright. Something with some thickness but still snarly. (My non-technical musical descriptions!)
DC resistance does not tell you the whole story of how much output a pickup has. You have to take this into context with the magnet and the wire gauge used. The reason why the Crawler is not much hotter than the VHII inspite of its much higher DC resistance is that the Crawler is wound with a thinner wire (43 AWG) compared to the VHII (42 AWG, lower numbers = thicker wire). The DiMarzio SD has much more output than either but that is due to the ceramic magnet(s) used compared to the Alnico V in the Crawler and VHII.
From your tonal description in the quoted passage, VHII would be what you want.
You guys may be right in terms of Riff Raff bridge, Mule Neck, or Abraxas bridge/Mule Neck. For some reason though the clips I heard of the Riff Raff were missing some oompf. I just listened to a few Abraxas clips and it is nice too, more oompf there, although I can tell it's getting hotter and closer to the Super D area.
The Abraxas bridge is considerably lower in output than a Super D. I would say it sits right between a vintage PAF and a Super D - maybe leaning a tad more to the Super D side but it's not close to it. The Abraxas neck is a low output (= vintage level) pickup which is a bit brighter than e.g. the Crawler neck. I have not used the Abraxas neck and the VHII in the same guitar so I cannot give you a direct comparison but my feel is that the VHII neck has considerably more output than the Abraxas neck.
Cheers Stephan
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I have mine in an ash strat.
Van Halen tone???
Yes, it's a real good old school rock/hardrockpickup that nails the VH-sound, depending on the amps used.
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Yes, it's a real good old school rock/hardrockpickup that nails the VH-sound, depending on the amps used.
;)
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the dimarzio 36th anniversary is a great pickup, one of the few non-bkps that really impressed me, but it's far from the classic paf sound
it's considerably hotter and fatter than the original dimarzio paf from the 70's (which was actually a gibson t-top replica)
it's definitely hotter than a mule as well, bassy like the vhII and middy like the black dog, so it's hard to call it a real PAF
also, it's hard to beat BKP's clarity when you put some heavy gain
dimarzio, duncan and gibson pickups tend to distort and mud things up too easily
the riff raff sounds really thick in my les paul custom, but mine has a custom thicker magnet, so it's a little bassier than a common one
having it close to the strings really helps
my mule in a jap hurricane les paul copy doesn't sound that thick, but thick enough for me
it's the juiciest and most organic bridge pickup I ever played
when I need more push out of it, I just use some sort of booster (usually some maxon/tube screamer or my juansolo baby boobtube)
the vhII set also sounded great in that same guitar, but it's a punchier and more defined sound, clearer under gain, but not as sweet
I also have a black dog in greco lp std, which is quite bright and has a maple neck, and it makes it sound thicker and gainier than my lp custom, which is a naturally darker and bass heavy guitar
for early UFO, I'd probably pick the riff raff over the others, but all these options should work pretty well
I really like the subtle natural compression of the mule when you dig it hard
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I have mine in an ash strat.
Van Halen tone???
Yes, it's a real good old school rock/hardrockpickup that nails the VH-sound, depending on the amps used.
Can't stress this enough. For some reason, more than any other pickup, people equate the VHII to give you automatic brown sound.
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Yeah, that's because of the name. I don't have a Marshall, nor do I play VH. This pickup sounds great on my Rockerverb though, for all kinds of rock.
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Yeah, that's because of the name. I don't have a Marshall, nor do I play VH. This pickup sounds great on my Rockerverb though, for all kinds of rock.
Yeah, sorry, that's what I was implying :lol:
I don't find too many people saying the Holy Diver gives you automatic Dio tones or the Rebel Yell for Billy Idol tones.
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the dimarzio 36th anniversary is a great pickup, one of the fell non-bkps that really impressed me, but it's far from the classic paf sound
it's considerably hotter and fatter than the original dimarzio paf from the 70's (which was actually a gibson t-top replica)
it's definitely hotter than a mule as well, bassy like the vhII and middy like the black dog, so it's hard to call it a real PAF
also, it's hard to beat BKP's clarity when you put some heavy gain
dimarzio, duncan and gibson pickups tend to distort and mud things up too easily
Thanks! This is the info I was looking for. Of all the clips I heard of these pickups I've been checking out, the Dimarzio 36th Anniversaries sounded just like what I wanted. The other pickup I was considering was the Wolfetone Marshallhead which I've heard could also be compared to the Riff Raff tone wise, so it does sound like a Riff Raff is the way to go here from a BKP perspective. From my past experience with BKP, I do notice its qualities for handling extra gain and retaining clarity, whereas the Dimarzio 36th I'm not so sure.
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I used to have a pair of T-Tops in my Les Paul, they were 7.5k each, low output and not very ballsy at all. Didn't last long in my guitar.
For what you describe an Abraxas would get you there. Ignore the output (14-15k), it just sounds like a fatter PAF - it's got that kinda tonality of a PAF cranked up fat through plexis, but without necessarily having to have a rig like that.
Checkout the vids in my sig, loads of them are with the Abraxas in my Les Paul.
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I've been re-evaluating clips and reviews, and the sound I'm looking for, and I'm starting to think that maybe the Dimarzio 36th Anniversaries aren't quite what I want to do. I have a Super Distortion and PAF Pro right now, and I understand how Dimarzio's are generally trying to help your guitar do something that it isn't already doing. I've heard a lot of people say the 36th anniversaries, sound great, but a little compressed, and that's something I want to avoid. They sure sound great, but I can imagine it's the same tonal imprint on whatever guitar it goes in, much like other Dimarzios.
So I'm thinking about the Riff Raff again. I have Holy Divers in my super strats, and I've really become accustomed (although it took me awhile to appreciate them from the Dimarzios I used before) to the organic, 3D sound of BKPs, and maybe the Riff Raffs aren't as bright and jangly as I initially thought they were. In fact, they actually do have a thick character once I explored some more clips and I think they would sound much more natural for my LP. Now I just have to decide whether to do the Riff Raff neck or Mule neck. I like a nice bright neck pickup myself, I don't like dark/muddy, so the Riff Neck sounds like it would be perfect.
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I just replaced my 57 classics with mules because I thought they were too dark. They sound a lot more well rounded. They sound great with a lot of gain too. They are really versatile.
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both mule and riff raff will let your guitar speak for the first time
they're really transparent
the riff raff does add a certain spark and so does the mule, but they tend to balance well with mahogany
unless you have a really bright les paul, they will sound amazing
the mule is a little smooth and blends the notes just a bit under gain, but in a very natural and pleasant way
the riff raff is a bit clearer, so might be "better" for heavier stuff if you don't wanna lose a bit of attack
both are my favorite les paul brigde pickups ever and the neck mule is my favorite as well (didn't try the neck riff raff)
and I'm no classic rock player
I usually need lots of gain for what I play (modern rock with alice in chains, tool and soundgarden influences)
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both mule and riff raff will let your guitar speak for the first time
they're really transparent
the riff raff does add a certain spark and so does the mule, but they tend to balance well with mahogany
unless you have a really bright les paul, they will sound amazing
the mule is a little smooth and blends the notes just a bit under gain, but in a very natural and pleasant way
the riff raff is a bit clearer, so might be "better" for heavier stuff if you don't wanna lose a bit of attack
both are my favorite les paul brigde pickups ever and the neck mule is my favorite as well (didn't try the neck riff raff)
I like the descriptions, especially of the Mule bec I own a set. Spot on. :)
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Agree on the bridge mule. It sounds soooooo much nicer then the 57 classic. I hated that pup although I didn't mind the neck 57.