Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Marco78 on January 11, 2013, 01:46:32 PM
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Hi guys, I have created on a excel page a list of single coil and hb product by Tim, but on the description page missing the description of wire used on some modern pickups.
What is type and measures of wire on this pickups: Trilogy, Sinner, Cold Sweath, Aftermath, Crawler, Nailbomb, Painkiller, Holydriver, Miracle man and warpig? On the other pickups is it signed...
;)
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What a conincidence - I did the same for the humbuckers and put in the specs whenever anybody posted it. Hope I can fill in some blanks for you.
Cold Sweat: bridge 43 AWG plain enamel, neck 42.5 polysol
Nailbomb: bridge 43 AWG plain enamel, neck probably the same
Holydiver: bridge 44 AWG plain enamel, neck 42.5 polysol
Miracle Man: both 44 AWG plain enamel
Warpig: bridge 44 AWG plain enamel, neck probably the same
I am missing the data for the Aftermath, Crawler and Painkiller, too.
To all the folks reading this: please correct me if anything is not accurate. Thanks.
Cheers Stephan
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What a conincidence - I did the same for the humbuckers and put in the specs whenever anybody posted it. Hope I can fill in some blanks for you.
Cold Sweat: bridge 43 AWG plain enamel, neck 42.5 polysol
Nailbomb: bridge 43 AWG plain enamel, neck probably the same
Holydiver: bridge 44 AWG plain enamel, neck 42.5 polysol
Miracle Man: both 44 AWG plain enamel
Warpig: bridge 44 AWG plain enamel, neck probably the same
I am missing the data for the Aftermath, Crawler and Painkiller, too.
To all the folks reading this: please correct me if anything is not accurate. Thanks.
Cheers Stephan
42,5????????????
are you sure that metal pickups are plain enamel and not poly???? very strange...
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Miracle Man is 45 gauge from what I recall, as is the Warpig
Crawler is 43 for bridge and maybe 42 for neck
42.5 is a metric gauge rather than imperial sizing
42 gauge has a diameter of 0.063mm and 42.5 has a diameter of 0.060mm (43 gauge is 0.056mm)
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are you sure that metal pickups are plain enamel and not poly???? very strange...
definitely, and I think that might be a good part of the reason why they sound so good
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Miracle Man is 45 gauge from what I recall, as is the Warpig
Crawler is 43 for bridge and maybe 42 for neck
Just checked my mailbox and I can confirm the neck is 42:
Crawler bridge is wound with 43 AWG while Crawler neck is 42 AWG hence the different DC reading but good balance in output.
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yeah, the miracle man is 45 awg and it's poly, not plain enamel
the warpig has the exact same wire
the neck miracle man sounds a lot like the alnico warpig, although the warpig is a lot more overwound
the painkiller is supposed to be 44 awg poly, and I believe the holy diver has the same wire type
the aftermath is 43 awg plain enamel, like the nailbomb, but with symmetrical coils (hence the full midrange instead of the c-bomb slight midscoop)
I suppose the triple magnet setup helps with the extra tightness (which makes me think if removing the side magnets would make it a more classic hard rock sounding pickup)
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So:
Cold Sweath: Poly 42,5 / PE 43
Aftermath: PE 43 / PE 43
Crawler: PE 42 / PE 43
Nailbomb: PE 43 / PE 43
Painkiller: Poly 44 / Poly 44
Holydriver: PE 43 / Poly 44
Miracle Man : Poly 45 / Poly 45
Warpig: Poly 45 / Poly 45
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neck diver is 42.5 poly
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Miracle Man is 45 gauge from what I recall, as is the Warpig
Crawler is 43 for bridge and maybe 42 for neck
Just checked my mailbox and I can confirm the neck is 42:
Crawler bridge is wound with 43 AWG while Crawler neck is 42 AWG hence the different DC reading but good balance in output.
Thank you very much, that's very interesting even though not surprising.
This makes me think that the Abraxas neck is probably also 42 AWG, even though the bridge is 43 AWG. Can anybody confirm this, please?
Thanks, Stephan
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yeah, the abraxas neck is similar to the mule
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yeah, the miracle man is 45 awg and it's poly, not plain enamel
the warpig has the exact same wire
the neck miracle man sounds a lot like the alnico warpig, although the warpig is a lot more overwound
the painkiller is supposed to be 44 awg poly, and I believe the holy diver has the same wire type
the aftermath is 43 awg plain enamel, like the nailbomb, but with symmetrical coils (hence the full midrange instead of the c-bomb slight midscoop)
I suppose the triple magnet setup helps with the extra tightness (which makes me think if removing the side magnets would make it a more classic hard rock sounding pickup)
So the triple magnet setup is horizontal rather than stacked?...I always wondered but never wanted to crack one open and have a look.
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I think the Black Dog is the polysol wire as well and that makes it sound so "beefy". :D
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Post deleted following conversation with Tim.
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Aren't the Black Dogs 42.5 poly?
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The higher the number the thinner the wire
The thinner the wire the higher the resistance per foot
polysol insulation is considered to somehow introduce and upper midrange spike to the sound
Formvar insulation is thicker than polysol or PE and each coil of wire is held slightly further apart from the previous layer as a result
This has an effect on the capacitance of the coil
PG blues neck is formvar, as are Apaches and Blackhawk
Blackhawk has very tall coils too and that has an effect on the sound too.
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Post deleted following conversation with Tim.
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As above.
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This certainly does a lot in terms of undstanding PUs, but as you said it is not all, as seemingly similar PUs do sound different.
Two other factors which contribute and make the difference are:
1. The Magnet. Not just the general type like AV or AII, but also the shape, thickness, maybe it was aged or treated otherwhise, multiple magnet designs, etc.
2. The shape of the coil. Is the coil flat or high? Is the upper part thicker? Etc.
Far as I understand it these two factors make a huge difference. Combine that with symmetrical / asymmetrical winding and you can basecally make two PUs with lets say AIII, 42 plain enamel and about 8,2k and they would sound very different.
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This is very true and I wouldn't want to suggest that knowing about the wire will answer all the questions people may have. That wasn't my intention at all and I would always encourage people to read Tim's excellent thread on magnets in conjunction with this thread and the reviews thread you started. Nevertheless, I did feel that this thread helped my understanding greatly so I wanted to make sure the list was completed.
It is perhaps also worth noting that Ben told me that the DC resistance of a pickup can go up and down with the temperature, thus affecting the tonal characteristics of a pickup, which explains why some days my guitars can sound very different to other days.
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I am fully aware what you were trying to do and as I said it does a lot in terms of understanding.
I was not meaning to imply that you said that was all there was to it.
I just wanted to add this in so that someone looking over this thread does not put too much weight on the wire type and is reminded that there are many other factors to the tone, although the wire certainly is an important part.
This together with Tims magnet thread, as you said, is very informative, yet I still just wanted to point out in which way the PUs can still differ for completions sake =)
The way this stands it is very helpful and I certainly learned a lot about wires, so thanks for putting this list up and explaining with practical examples.
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main difference between the crawler and nailbomb is probably the coils symmetry
both are quite overwound for 43 awg, but the nailbomb has heavily offset coils, so it has a more deeper bass and a more pronounced and focused treble, and the midrange is more controlled
bet the crawler is more simmetrically wound, like the aftermath (which is also around the same dc resistance with the same wire)
I'm not sure about the crawler magnet length, but the nailbomb has the long "vintage cut" bar, like the VHII
I still miss some ceramic 43 awg poly model in the super distortion ballpark
like a toned down ceramic warpig or something