Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: PPPMAT on January 15, 2013, 12:49:17 PM
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Hi Guys
I am on the lookout for a Marshall toned head. I have an SLO at the moment which is just amazing, its like the most hot rodded bassman you will ever come across but it does not really sound like a Marshall no matter what you do with the eq.
I am looking at getting another head to cover a more marshall sound and thought about the Bogner XTC. I know some of you guys have tried one and swear by them. I never have and a lot of the clips sound more rodded 800 than rodded NMW type of tone. Is the XTC flexible enough to cover nice plexi tones and thick NMW Marshall tones rather than the more upper mid trebly 800 tones? Both would be nice but I really need it to nail a cranked plexi tone.
I have found a NOS THD flexi 50 which has that tone in spades but doesnt do much else and I'm quite tempted. I cant help but think though that with an SLO and XTC I have all the bases covered and it doesnt really get any better.
Opinions welcome - I'm looking at all the options at the moment.
Cheers
Matt
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I remember Paul Stanley said "i hear about all these people getting all these amps, looking for a Marshall type sound. i have a great thing for a Marshall sound; it's called a Marshall" :)
not much help to you perhaps :lol: the Bogner is supposed to be fantastic, Twinfan has one and i'm sure he'll say his piece on it. i would suggest you try the Joe Satriani signature Marshall JVM though. it seems to be ticking a lot of boxes for a lot of people.
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I know what you mean - but every Marshall I have tried for the last 10 years has this cutting high mid frequency to it that the older NMV plexis just didnt have.
That said - you are not the first to say the the Satch JVM is really good (and I can actually try one of them)
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Ceriatone Chupacabra/Yeti
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I have (painfully) learned that the only way to get something remotely close to the Marshall sound is a Marshall. Also, that high mid frequency is what makes a Marshall a Marshall. Not sure which Plexi's you're listening to, but they are dangerously trebly until you open them up, like you hear on your favorite albums. That's really the only way they start to round out, is through volume.
Also consider that high mid frequency you hear might sound a tad bit unpleasant when playing by yourself (which is easily fixed by adjusting your EQ) will sound 100x better playing with other musicians, as it really cuts through a mix like nothing else.
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I believe one or colleagues has a friedman don't they? Marshall on steroids i hear, and the clips of them sound awesome.
Funnily enough i was just reading a thread on rig talk earlier today comparing the 2. Consensus was no similarities between an SLO and Friedman HBE/BE, however it was supposed then confirmed by someone who owned both that they compliment each other very well.
Low mids and warmth of a Marshall plus high mids, aggression and openess of the SLO.
Sounds good to me
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Other amps worth considering are the Cornell Plexi 45/50
http://www.dc-developments.com/cornell_plexi4550.htm (http://www.dc-developments.com/cornell_plexi4550.htm)
Wizard amps have a good reputation for Plexi Marshalls
http://wizardamplification.com/amplifiers.htm (http://wizardamplification.com/amplifiers.htm)
Or get one of the Marshall Yngwie amps and dial back the volume to bearable levels via the power scaling type thing that is built in.
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The THD Flexi 50 would be really good actually
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If you want a cranked Plexi tone, get a Plexi and crank it :lol: Use an attenuator if required.
Jon's suggestion of the Malmsteen Sig Marshall is a good one, if you need to tame the power. Their scaling system is good (I had it on my old AFD100).
I have an XTC Classic that I love but it's LOUD. Plexi mode is excellent, but like most 100w amps it sounds best when it's cooking. I don't play that loud live so I now use a 65 Amps Empire. Works for me for pub gigs.
How loud do you play, and which specific Plexi tone are you after - can you post a YouTube clip?
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I know what you mean about the XTC being loud - the SLO is unbelievable loud if you want it but it also sounds really good at a whisper.
The amp would be for rehearsal and gigs - small pubs/clubs really but it would be good to be able to use it at home too so a proper NMV Marshall with an attenuator is probably a no no.
In terms of tone I am aiming at NMV 3 holer Marshall - the Mater volume Marshall tone/800 call it what you will IS different and I am not really aiming at that. I tried the Malmsteen a while ago and thought it sounded awful so thats out. Maybe the THD is the way to go with a drive pedal for leads? If I was to refernce the tone I would say anything current by Simon McBride. He uses the plexi channel on the H&K triamp which does have 'the' sound but it weighs a ton and its massive and I'm not getting any younger!
Cheers
Matt
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On Simon's latest album he used an old 50w Plexi that used to belong to Eric Johnson. It's now owned by Paul Reed Smith.
I'm surpised you thought the Yngwie sounded awful, as that's basically just a non-MV four hole Marshall in tone, which is what you say you want? :?
The XTC weighs a ton, so if the H&K is out then so's the Bogner. But if you're set on an XTC, you'll want one of the more open sounding versions which are the original 100B, the Classic or the 20th Anniversary. If you're after a used one, the Anniversary is the most likely to crop up. I've never seen another Classic for sale since I got mine, and I've never seen a 100B here in the UK. They are more hot-rodded late 70s Master Volume than Plexi though.
If I was you I'd get a Marshall 1987 model 50w plexi reissue and an attenuator for gigs, and I'd use it with a Crunch Box/Guv'nor pedal at home for practice.
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What about an Egnater Mod50 - the one that you can swap the preamp modules on
The lower wattage setting actually works really well on it and if you tire of one sound you can simply slide that preamp out and replace it with another variant.
I have one for sale - it's brilliant but I tend to only use my rack versions of the same thing as I don't go out and play live and the racks are already set up
Currently loaded with Bassman module and SL2 Marshall modules, each with 2 channels
Will also take all the Randall modules too
There are some guys doing mods to these modules that are out of this world
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/amps/modules%20and%20mods/DSC035391.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/amps/modules%20and%20mods/DSC035411.jpg)
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I'm also kinda surprised you thought the YJM was trash, as that is a Plexi. Did you use the available functions on it like the EPA and the boost? if you didn't make use of the EPA, yes it will sound cr@ppy because you didn't attenuate it at all.
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I'm surprised that I didnt like the YJM to be honest. Everyone else seems to love it - I just couldnt get it to have anywhere near the gain I thought it would give (and which the clips show) and it sounded quite flat. Then again pretty much everything sounds flat next to an SLO and I was playing it in a shop at 'shop' volume levels. It was a long time ago........
I've ordered the Flexi 50 so we will see what it sounds like - I can always send it back if its not right but if fits the bill tone wise, then great - also I will probably not get the chance to buy another
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How much is the Flexi 50 costing you ? Did you get a good deal?
I recall seeing one about 7-8 years ago and being interested
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Hope you love it!
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^ +1 I liked the one i tried, but I did try it ages ago and can't remember much about it :lol:
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Thanks guys - it was half price so pretty good deal but they are a bit under the radar! If its not right it can go back but hopefully it will deliver those early marshall tones. I could have gone for a plexi reissue and attenuator but the flexi has so many more options that it seems like the right choice.
It has a good inbuilt boost but I will need a decent od pedal to send it over the top for leads next.
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Sorry for the shameless spam but if you're interested I have a 20th anniversary shiva for sale, it's more aggressive than the xtc (I have both) and proper roars like a Marshall.
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when you tried the YJM, did you have the EPA set low? i have found that it seems to lose quite a bit of gain and liveliness when you have it down at lower volumes. the boost can be used to wake it up a bit, but it does need a bit of volume to really come to life. it's still vastly more controllable than an old Superlead, and it can sound good at remarkably low volume, but you can't quite get full on plexi tone at bedroom volume.
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Hi guys - just an update. The flexi 50 came (and went) it has some great cleans and mild breakup and does a very good impresion of a plexi. Only problem is when you add a pedal or wind the boost up it compresses like mad and I just couldnt dial it out. It sounded amazing at rehearsal on mild crunch but when I went for the lead stuff my sound just disappeared into the mix.
So, next is the Satriani JVM. I've taken on board all the comments about - 'want a Marshall sound buy a Marshall' so lets see what its like. I went for a black one , nice though the blue is.........
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I'm not 100% sure, as I've only played the regular JVM and not the Satriani JVM, but my experience showed me that you'll have the opposite problem. Great solo tone but I don't know if you'll be crazy about the crunch.
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Crunch is where the Satch JVM is supposed to shine and where it differs most from the regular JVM (apparently) sounds good in the clips! There's only one way to find out I suppose.....
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That's good to know. Like I said, I never tried the Satch JVM, so I'm no expert. Hope it works out though, I hate shuffling gear around.
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My money's on it going back too unless you play LOUD.
Good luck with it though!
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everything I heard from the bogner shiva is absolutely amazing
the XTC sounds great too, but not in everyones hands, which makes me think it might not be as easy to dial as the shiva
pure speculation, though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J1y59Hw0H0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J1y59Hw0H0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImgSXunErHI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImgSXunErHI)
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I think you're probably right, the Shiva has a core tone that's easy to tease out. The XTC is more flexible.
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I think you're probably right, the Shiva has a core tone that's easy to tease out. The XTC is more flexible.
I agree with you guys, the Shiva is plug and play at any volume, the xtc has a wider tonal palette which can require more time to get right. Both are massively flexible as gigging amps.
Also, I would be very surprised if the Bogner build quality wasn't significantly better than the marshall.
The Shiva is more classic Marshall of the 2.
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The Shiva is more classic Marshall of the 2.
Unless you're talking about an XTC Classic ;)
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instead of getting a marshall amp why not just get an overdrive/distortion pedal that sounds like one? or get a line 6 amp sim...to me they sound exactly like a real marshall
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instead of getting a marshall amp why not just get an overdrive/distortion pedal that sounds like one? or get a line 6 amp sim...to me they sound exactly like a real marshall
Feel is also a big factor that most amps, especially modelers, can't pull off by a long shot.
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instead of getting a marshall amp why not just get an overdrive/distortion pedal that sounds like one? or get a line 6 amp sim...to me they sound exactly like a real marshall
Feel is also a big factor that most amps, especially modelers, can't pull off by a long shot.
I think a lot of guitarists say this but have any of you gone in a studio and put this to a head to head test?
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I'm sure if you're recording a modeller or pedal could do the trick sound-wise, but 'feel' is very important to some folks (myself included). It's the same with guitars - most LP users could sound the same with an Epi LP, but their Gibson will feel nicer/better/more responsive to play.
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I'm sure if you're recording a modeller or pedal could do the trick sound-wise, but 'feel' is very important to some folks (myself included). It's the same with guitars - most LP users could sound the same with an Epi LP, but their Gibson will feel nicer/better/more responsive to play.
This
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I'm sure if you're recording a modeller or pedal could do the trick sound-wise, but 'feel' is very important to some folks (myself included). It's the same with guitars - most LP users could sound the same with an Epi LP, but their Gibson will feel nicer/better/more responsive to play.
Its all in the head !!
I have played some Gibsons that are totally cr@p in buildquality and feel,
but somehow users do accept it, just because its name Gibson.
I love my Edwards LPC and Greco's Flying V,
but when other guitarists look at them after hearing them live,
they seems to loose interest - it reads not Gibson on the headstock.
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I'm sure if you're recording a modeller or pedal could do the trick sound-wise, but 'feel' is very important to some folks (myself included). It's the same with guitars - most LP users could sound the same with an Epi LP, but their Gibson will feel nicer/better/more responsive to play.
Its all in the head !!
It's only 'in the head' for those that think a big brand name guarantees quality and therefore 'better' tone etc.
Pretty much all of us on here wouldn't fall into that category.
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I'm sure if you're recording a modeller or pedal could do the trick sound-wise, but 'feel' is very important to some folks (myself included). It's the same with guitars - most LP users could sound the same with an Epi LP, but their Gibson will feel nicer/better/more responsive to play.
Its all in the head !!
It's only 'in the head' for those that think a big brand name guarantees quality and therefore 'better' tone etc.
Pretty much all of us on here wouldn't fall into that category.
Maybe not in here, but to many out there DO fall for the name Gibson!
I would never buy a new Gibson, when i can get 3-4 superb MIJ for the price of one Gibson...
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Yep - too many people fall for the Gibson name where there might be a better deal to be had elsewhere. Don't disagree with you at all!
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I'm sure if you're recording a modeller or pedal could do the trick sound-wise, but 'feel' is very important to some folks (myself included). It's the same with guitars - most LP users could sound the same with an Epi LP, but their Gibson will feel nicer/better/more responsive to play.
Its all in the head !!
It's only 'in the head' for those that think a big brand name guarantees quality and therefore 'better' tone etc.
Pretty much all of us on here wouldn't fall into that category.
Maybe not in here, but to many out there DO fall for the name Gibson!
I would never buy a new Gibson, when i can get 3-4 superb MIJ for the price of one Gibson...
I agree in principle with what you're saying, but people always use Gibson as an example in these discussions - I've done it myself - almost as if it's an established fact that Gibsons are (a) rubbish and (b) overpriced.
In my obsession with Les Paul Juniors and similar guitars, I've owned loads of Japanese guitars in recent years - Edwards, Tokai, Orville, Greco and MIJ Epiphones (no Burnys, yet! :wink:). They're great guitars, and great value for money. The Japanese Epis, in particular, are fantastic and I'll never sell them.
However, in the last year or two I've done what I said I'd never do...... I've bought some Gibson custom shop versions of the same guitars. And they are.... better. The build quality and finishing aren't significantly better, the hardware is basically the same, so it must, I guess, be the timber. There's just that bit more resonance, more "magic". It's NOT just the name on the headstock, it's NOT all in my head, they are better guitars.
Are they worth 3-4 times the price of the MIJ guitars? That's a different question. It's never a case of "3 times the price = 3 times the guitar", you're always paying a premium for just an extra.... 10%, maybe, performance-wise. It's up to you whether that's worth paying for.
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As always Philly, far more eloquent than I am on this subject. That's pretty much the essence of what I wanted to say!
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Philly - I've been telling you all that for aaaaaaages ;)
Wise words well written :)
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Cheers chaps. :drink:
That said, this year I intend to keep the spending DOWN. Really, I do.....
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Spending will be at an absolute minimum for me this year I think (actually, I know I will but I'm trying to give myself at least some positivity!)
Lots of focus in our house on clearing some debt down this year.
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instead of getting a marshall amp why not just get an overdrive/distortion pedal that sounds like one? or get a line 6 amp sim...to me they sound exactly like a real marshall
Feel is also a big factor that most amps, especially modelers, can't pull off by a long shot.
I think a lot of guitarists say this but have any of you gone in a studio and put this to a head to head test?
I was in the studio this summer recording my band's demo and I tried so hard to like the Axe-FX, supposedly the best modeller out there, and my producer fought me and fought me to use it, but it just felt dead compared to my Marshall. It felt dead while my Marshall cranked up in the studio felt like a living, breathing amp.
Some players it doesn't matter much, but for me, with audiences and gear likewise, I feed off of what they give me. If my amp isn't giving me anything, I can't give much back. Yes it's probably all in my head but I'm not going against my head in this case.
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That's the whole thing to me - music is all about art/feel/emotion/etc. Otherwise it would be maths.
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That's the whole thing to me - music is all about art/feel/emotion/etc. Otherwise it would be maths.
A guy I occasionally work with plays guitar. I got chatting to him and he said he played "mathcore". I'd never heard of that genre and imagined it would sound like sh!te. Got home, looked it up on YouTube. Yep, it sounded like sh!te.
Apologies to any mathcoreists on here. No offense intended.
Give me a Neil Young one note solo and I'll probably be happy. All about the feel and emotion for me.
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Exactly! I find that the guys who say more with one note than 100 notes has much more to say and contribute. Don't get me wrong, I like some shred (but not over the top), but nothing's better than a Gilmour solo. Could you see Gilmour playing an L6 Pod?
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That's the whole thing to me - music is all about art/feel/emotion/etc. Otherwise it would be maths.
A guy I occasionally work with plays guitar. I got chatting to him and he said he played "mathcore". I'd never heard of that genre and imagined it would sound like sh!te. Got home, looked it up on YouTube. Yep, it sounded like sh!te.
Apologies to any mathcoreists on here. No offense intended.
Give me a Neil Young one note solo and I'll probably be happy. All about the feel and emotion for me.
Well, according to some fans and even... Wikipedia... Tool are considered math rock/art rock and they're flipping brilliant. Haven't heard much else of that genre though an definitely no "mathCORRRREEEWWE". God, I hate that word... What does it add to the definition of a genre?
"Me and my budyz playz hevvy metalcorz wiv jazz fusion corzzed influences from Somalia..."
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And that's the problem with all of these (often stupidly named) genres. Trying to pigeon hole a band into a genre or, shudder, a cross genre is quite frankly ridiculous.
My categorisation is very simple. Good music or Bad music.
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Lots of focus in our house on clearing some debt down this year.
Lots of focus in mine on clearing some space! :lol:
(Just been trying to sort my Blu-ray collection into some sort of order this afternoon.... what a bore that was. But it least it's something useful, and I've found a few I can sell.)
Could you see Gilmour playing an L6 Pod?
Probably not, but he did use EMG pickups for many years!
I agree that music is all about feel and emotion, but that doesn't necessarily mean "one note says more than 1,000" (although it very often does....). And I don't think it matters whether the equipment is analog or digital, vintage or modern. It's what you feel comfortable with, and what you do with it that matters.
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Another quick update - The Satch sounds pretty good! First Marshall I have owned in years, sounds great quiet and at rehearsal levels. One thing I'm not used to is the EQ, I remember my Marshalls of old having an EQ that did basically nothing no matter where you set it - not the case here, it alters the sound quite a bit so will take some dialling in.
Lots of thump and punch and a ton of gain if you want it - very useful channel switching for a covers band (like ours) too. Better than expected so far...
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Awesome! Glad you like it. I really haven't heard anything but good things about the Satch JVM. How are the gates?
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The gates I have to say work really well and you need them for the mega overdrive channels - very clever and let you have all the controlled harmonic feedback you want and none of the stuff you don't.
Its simple to operate but there are so many different ways to dial it in its a bit overwhelming but all in a good way. Its voiced very well I think and screams and crunches up nicely. The AFD red crunch mode is notably good.
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I'm sure if you're recording a modeller or pedal could do the trick sound-wise, but 'feel' is very important to some folks (myself included).
1,000,000% this. I realise now a lot of the tone chasing I have done has actually been feel chasing, hence why I love the Bogners so much.
Glad you like the satch :D
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In the ballpark of the XTC is also the Hook Captain 34.
It has three channels, all very good. The vibe is def. plexi. Not really a metalamp, although with a boost you can get there. Sounds more vintage then the XTC, I think.
Lots of video's (also Guthrie Govan) here:
http://www.hookamps.com/captain34.php (http://www.hookamps.com/captain34.php)
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I personally like Bogner XTC, I though it sounded great.
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I personally like Bogner XTC, I though it sounded great.
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Turing test fail have you done.
Back on topic, very happy you like the Satch JVM. My only low(ish) volume Marshall tone experience was a Cornell Plexi 7 I used to own. Great amp but is not gig-able unless you want to mic it.