Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: GuitarIv on January 27, 2013, 06:30:43 PM
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Cheers guys,
reporting from my rehearsal room with results from a little experiment.
I took the Holydiver out of my Strat (Poplar Body, Maple Neck and Fretboard) and put it into my Jackson Fusion (Mahogany Body, Maple Neck and Rosewood Fretboard) and I'm totally overwhelmed by the result. Everything I felt was lacking in my Strat is there in the Jackson. The Diver balances the guitar out perfectly, leaving a fat but not overbearing low end (tight at all times!), a good portion of mids and present but not piercing highs. I'm blown away. The perfect pickup for the guitar.
Now this leaves me with a problem: shall I leave the Holydiver where it is? Get a new pickup for the Strat? I was initially planning to order an Aftermath and a Coldsweat for the Jackson but as said the HD fits the bill perfectly. I always felt it was lacking low end and had too much mids in the Strat so I'm thinking to replace it with a Miracle Man, however that would very probably overpower the Slowhands in the guitar. Also I read that the Aftermath is very similar voicing-wise to the HD and I could still get it for the Jackson for the Death Metal sound.
I'm really unsure, so I hope you guys can give me your opinions.
Also if you have the time could you check out the following song (just the distorted guitars, not the whole thing :P):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBPBEpVJYso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBPBEpVJYso)
And tell me what pickup can get close to this distorted sound?
Thanks in advance and cheers :)
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If you've found a guitar/pickup combination that works, it sounds like you should just stick with it. So leave the HD in the Jackson and now you can focus on the Strat.
While I'm not qualified to say, from listening to the song I'm going to guess that others will recommend an alnico Nailbomb.
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Yes, if it's perfect, then you by all means should keep it where it is.
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I agree - the HD should stay in the Jackson if it overwhelmed you. The one in my ash strat will go nowhere.
As regards your strat I would look to the Miracle Man or C-Bomb, maybe even C-Pig. I only played the MiM out of those. It has more bass and highs than the HD (had them in the same guitar - an alder bodied strat with a rosewood board).
Cheers Stephan
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Then again, I remember a little while ago you had some trouble with the height and whatnot, so if your heart of hearts wants it to stay in the Strat, I'd mess with the height and polepieces a bit more. Might have just found the sweet spot quickly in the Jackson!
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Id mix it up and use another brand, maybe a Duncan Distortion?
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Obviously get a new pickup for the Strat. Maybe a VHII or Abraxas.
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Thanks for all the advice guys. The Duncan Invaders I had in the Jackson before sounded good as well, I guess it's a rather balanced instrument. The Strat is giving me headaches now for ages already. Might try a Nailbomb. Or the Miracle Man. Still unsure.
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Thanks for all the advice guys. The Duncan Invaders I had in the Jackson before sounded good as well, I guess it's a rather balanced instrument. The Strat is giving me headaches now for ages already. Might try a Nailbomb. Or the Miracle Man. Still unsure.
Actually Invaders are surprisingly balanced pickups.
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I like the Invaders, although they are a little bit too muddy and undefined for my taste. I guess a C-Pig could be the better equivalent :P
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I like the Invaders, although they are a little bit too muddy and undefined for my taste. I guess a C-Pig could be the better equivalent :P
I would't say better, even though on paper the C-Pig seems as hot as the Invader in reality its probably more close to the saturation of the JB or MAYBE the Distortion (when talking duncans of course...) From my experience BKP's all tend to have a "clearer" sound but never have as much mids as a JB or 81 which are ultimately better for recording than any BKP.
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From my experience BKP's all tend to have a "clearer" sound but never have as much mids as a JB or 81 which are ultimately better for recording than any BKP.
Care to explain that further? :P
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From my experience BKP's all tend to have a "clearer" sound but never have as much mids as a JB or 81 which are ultimately better for recording than any BKP.
Care to explain that further? :P
I really don't know what it is, other than it seeming like there's more audible mids and a more "raw" sound that just cuts through the mix better than most BKP's tend to. Playing by yourself you would think say the Holy Diver sounds better than a JB but when it comes to playing live or recording the JB will sound better. Most guys on the forum I regularly post on (ultimatemetal.com) tend to think bare knuckles suck because most of them aren't bedroom players and spend 90% of the time playing guitar either in a band or recording demos/albums/EP's etc. I have direct experience with this too, I recorded the same thing (not even on a real mic, just on my Iphone) with my Holy Diver equipped guitar and my JB/Jazz equipped guitar and the differences for me where, the JB has more presence, mids and higher saturation but not by much, and when playing really fast the lowest string doesn't sound as clear as the Holy Diver which is smoother, tighter, and fuller which turns out to sound less audible in a mix, the duncans also have a certain sound that to me makes them better overall than the Holy Diver set but are harder to make sound good, their noisier and less balanced, also comparing the Holy Diver neck and Jazz neck, the jazz sounds clearer under high gain is way better for fast stuff but through my amps clean channel it can get a little "buzzy", probably because its a noisier pickup but still has a better voicing then the HD neck, clearer with more sparkle on the highs.
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I think some peoples experience may vary. I`ve had great experiences recording with duncans, found it a bit easier in terms of playing metal rhythms since they were a bit more compressed. Tonewise live and in studio I prefer my BKP equipped guitars.
Ultimately everything depends on preference and application.
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Most guys on the forum I regularly post on (ultimatemetal.com) tend to think bare knuckles suck because most of them aren't bedroom players and spend 90% of the time playing guitar either in a band or recording demos/albums/EP's etc.
more like "BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE TOO SMART TO TRY ANYTHING ELSE THAN WHATEVER THEIR IDOLS HAVE BEEN USING FOR OVER 30 YEARS" :lol:
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I really don't know what it is, other than it seeming like there's more audible mids and a more "raw" sound that just cuts through the mix better than most BKP's tend to. Playing by yourself you would think say the Holy Diver sounds better than a JB but when it comes to playing live or recording the JB will sound better.
It's all personal preference. The only time I played a guitar with a JB in the bridge in a band I found I could not hear myself at all. There was just too much bloated midrange, no bass to speak of and no cut in the highs. The volume pot helped nothing to control the overdrive - it was basically off at "0" and full on from "1" up to "10". I just plain hated it. Swapped the JB for a Duncan '59 and the guitar sounded three times bigger. I should have kept that one.
Cheers Stephan
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I have direct experience with this too, I recorded the same thing (not even on a real mic, just on my Iphone) with my Holy Diver equipped guitar and my JB/Jazz equipped guitar and the differences for me where, the JB has more presence, mids and higher saturation but not by much, and when playing really fast the lowest string doesn't sound as clear as the Holy Diver which is smoother, tighter, and fuller which turns out to sound less audible in a mix, the duncans also have a certain sound that to me makes them better overall than the Holy Diver set but are harder to make sound good, their noisier and less balanced, also comparing the Holy Diver neck and Jazz neck, the jazz sounds clearer under high gain is way better for fast stuff but through my amps clean channel it can get a little "buzzy", probably because its a noisier pickup but still has a better voicing then the HD neck, clearer with more sparkle on the highs.
I don't understand this comparison you're making. The JB doesn't sound as clear, is noisier and harder to make sound good, the HD sounds tighter and fuller and that makes the JB better - and you know this because you made a recording on your iPhone?
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Didn't want to start some kind of fight here, I have myself experienced some differences. I only used Duncans and Bareknuckles so far, I have yet to try out DiMarzios. What I love about the Holydiver is the clarity, the tightness and the rich harmonics together with the fat lead tone. The A-Pig set I played in a mates axe has blown me away with it's huge output, the still remaining clarity, tightness as well as the huge wall of sound. All in all I like the higher output in Duncans and the grit of the JB, as well as the huge sound the Invaders provide (and $%&# me but I love the Invaders clean sound). All in all BKPs have more tightness, articulation and clarity, and Duncans have more output and "balls" - so far as my observation goes.
I can't tell how they behave in a live or band setting compared to each other - so far.
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Oh and I still absolutely loathe Active Pickups. Just borrowed a mates Schecter Demon FR-7 recently with Actives and they sound too compressed, too thin and totally nasal in the mids. + it seems that every band I see live that uses EMGs get's lost in the mix (except for Decapitated, but that's a one guitar band)
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I have always used Duncans (jb, distortion and invader)and no BN yet (still thinking),
but i hate that output and compression from Duncans.
I you need that much output for a heavy sound, well i guess your amp sux.
For myself, i never used more than 70% of my preamps gain, never used any pedals (dist or screamers),
so for me, clarity, tightness and articulation is top priority and thats why i am here at BN and not Duncans forum.
//Peo
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I have direct experience with this too, I recorded the same thing (not even on a real mic, just on my Iphone) with my Holy Diver equipped guitar and my JB/Jazz equipped guitar and the differences for me where, the JB has more presence, mids and higher saturation but not by much, and when playing really fast the lowest string doesn't sound as clear as the Holy Diver which is smoother, tighter, and fuller which turns out to sound less audible in a mix, the duncans also have a certain sound that to me makes them better overall than the Holy Diver set but are harder to make sound good, their noisier and less balanced, also comparing the Holy Diver neck and Jazz neck, the jazz sounds clearer under high gain is way better for fast stuff but through my amps clean channel it can get a little "buzzy", probably because its a noisier pickup but still has a better voicing then the HD neck, clearer with more sparkle on the highs.
I don't understand this comparison you're making. The JB doesn't sound as clear, is noisier and harder to make sound good, the HD sounds tighter and fuller and that makes the JB better - and you know this because you made a recording on your iPhone?
Like I said, MANY people on ultimatemetal.com are pro producers and think that BKP's actually sound like shite, for whatever reason Seymour Duncans and EMG's sound better in a mix. Maybe you didn't read my whole post.
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Like I said, MANY people on ultimatemetal.com are pro producers and think that BKP's actually sound like shitee, for whatever reason Seymour Duncans and EMG's sound better in a mix. Maybe you didn't read my whole post.
I certainly did read the assertion you made that everyone on some message board is a professional. Speaking as a metal guitarist that has actually been in bands I still don't understand the way you're comparing these pickups. I'm sorry but simply citing a perceived credential that someone on the internet makes money doesn't change the fact that your description makes no sense.
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Like I said, MANY people on ultimatemetal.com are pro producers and think that BKP's actually sound like shiteee, for whatever reason Seymour Duncans and EMG's sound better in a mix. Maybe you didn't read my whole post.
Not my experience by far, and I gig with BKP equipped guitars regularly (one actually has a duncan neck at the moment). Could you post a link to some thread with this kind of discussion, and especially, comparison audio clips? I would love to hear them. And they also provide a 100x more info than not-yet-so-heated internet fighting :)
Clearer and more articulate sounds are never a downside for me when talking about cutting through. If that's a problem, amp setting adjustments are needed. But otherwise..never. And that clarity/articulation is what I love about BKPs. About the JB in particular, I've owned one and I can see that in a suiting guitar, it can sound really good. In some guitars, that midrange spike it has, can really start to irritate. Sometimes a pickup suits a guitar (or the player!), sometimes it doesn't. No matter what the brand.
I wonder how many times peoples initial impressions about BKPs are due to wrong pickup height? Nowadays I use the general rule of "2mm from strings when pressed from the last fret" as a starting point. I think that simple guide would do really well in the BKP installation guide. I mean, REALLY well :)
Btw, when searching info about pickups for my newest guitar, I came across this one. It really sold the Black Dog to me, and still is one of my favourite BKP clips.
Sounds 'quite' good in the mix btw :headphones3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I)
-Zaned
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Whilst surfing the net for other threads I found this huge comparison site:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?249024-Pickup-Shootout-Duncans-Dimarzios-Bill-Lawrences-Emgs-Bare-Knuckles-Oh-my (http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?249024-Pickup-Shootout-Duncans-Dimarzios-Bill-Lawrences-Emgs-Bare-Knuckles-Oh-my)!
To my ears the BKPs don't sound inferior
The dude even made the effort to swap out magnets!
Never heard of Alnico 6 or 9 before
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love the comparison and his impressions, but all those clips sounded awful :?
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His name confused me at first. "Why is Maiden's Bruce Dickinson playing...oh I see!" :D
My HDs won't go nowhere either. It's just the Humbucker. It does it all, pretty much. Works in my Strat, works in my Les Paul, done.