Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Oli on January 27, 2013, 11:38:00 PM
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So I often sit down of an evening and whilst watching Mad Men (or often Traffic Cops!), and I consider guitar purchases.
Now I have had a custom guitar before, and I'm reluctant to go down that route again, but there are a number of boutique builders who offer standard models which are somewhat limited/ custom. However, if I'm going to be dropping £1000-2500 on an instrument, I would like it to be a wise choice, and one that will not be worth a lot less in years to come. Now this is a potential issue with boutique guitars- is a Tyler still going to be worth 2k in 5 years, or 10 years time? Hard to tell, and I'm thinking that it may be a risky choice, just due to the niche appeal.
I'll just say now, that I'm not just looking for a guitar that is going to be worth money, and indeed, I'm certainly not really in the bracket of people that can afford the 'desireable' instruments that are the big bucks. I am looking for an instrument that will be played, but hopefully I won't lose a considerable amount, and something that will be 'worth' something, and be an interesting thing to have.
Which brings me to the flip side- 'vintage' instruments. From what I gather at the moment, the market is in a bit of a strange state, where prices are being held a bit high, but I may be wrong on that. However, I would like to consider this part of the market- a nice Tele, strat or LP would be something that I would like to own and play. Now, considering my budget (that can be extended with time), obviously I'm not in the realm of the '56 strat, but I'm not really sure what are the interesting instruments to look at.
So in my situation, what instruments would you be looking at? And do you think the bar of the vintage instrument will keep changing-- will it only be 50s and 60s fenders be the vintage ones, or will 70s be commanding more in 10 or 20 years time?
That's not even considering amplifiers!
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If you want to maximise resale:
* buy used
* buy a popular brand
* buy a popular model from said popular brand
You won't go wrong with a 70s LP/Strat/Tele if you want to go vintage. If you want to go more modern, go for a used Custom Shop LP/Strat/Tele. I'd go for a CS "something" every time.
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I agree with everything Twinfan said.
The trouble I have with most vintage instruments is that the collector end of the market (as opposed to the player end) has pushed up prices on instruments of very questionable quality. I was born in 1975 and have often fancied a guitar from that year. Over the years I've tried several Strats and Teles from '75 and they have all been horrible: really really poor quality. These days they will cost you nearly a couple of grand, which is preposterous. Collectors only care about year, desirability (did someone famous play one), and condition of an instrument and as late '60s (well into the CBS era) Fenders became unaffordable so the prices on early '70s guitars crept up and we're now at a point where mid to late '70s Fenders cost as much as a current, new, Custom Shop instrument. That's barmy, if you actually want to play the thing.
The only vintage instrument I own is a refinished '64 Epiphone Wilshire, a great guitar but not associated with any of the "legends of guitar" and hence of more limited interest to collectors. I reckon I could sell, if I could find a buyer in the current market, for what I paid for it. Probably.
I also recently bought a second hand PRS DGT, another fantastic interest. I paid less than half new price on a guitar that was barely 12 months old and was in as new condition. So I'd really suggest not buying any thing new, as Twinfan said.
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I'd go for used boutique. Given the current economy they seem difficult to move for their owners. Used PRSi can be had between EUR 1,300 and 1,600 for a CE22 or similar model. Recently there was a Grosh Retro Classic for EUR 1,550 on Ebay which did not move. Same for a Suhr Pro S2 for EUR 1,400.
Cheers Stephan
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On "vintage" I may add that the definition of this term becomes broader all the time. As for the real valuable stuff - that would almost take a lawyer to conclude the sale to make sure that the item is authentic and legit. And then you probably would not want to take it anywhere out. As regards "vintage" I would look either for instruments that for whatever reason did not become collectors items or which have been modified and lost some of the collectors value.
Cheers Stephan
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In 40 years time will people being looking at today's guitars as vintage instruments ? I thought 'vintage' would always be the '59 Les Paul, the '57 Strat etc. The 70s was a bad manufacturing period for both Fender and Gibson but now those guitars go for ridiculous prices. If I had the cash I'd go for a Feline or similar and get something that is exactly what I want. A 70s Strat will probably continue to increase in value but you could be stuck with playing a really bad guitar.
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Isn't there some kind of semi-official definition now, of "vintage" being anything over 30 years old? No idea who came up with that, if it's true.
I think some of today's guitars will be considered vintage in 40 years time, and they'll deserve it more than a lot of those '70s guitars do!
I always find it strange when I think that '59 Les Pauls and '57 Strats were already considered the Holy Grails when I started playing - at which point those guitars were less than 25 years old! Nothing really changes in the world of guitar, does it? It's nice that they don't have built-in obsolescence like phones, TVs etc.
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If you want vintage and you want a player, a Les Paul Junior is perfect. Those guitars can handle anything you throw at them, they're total workhorses and they are very undervalued right now.
I won't tell you to go against the boutique route either. What exactly do you mean by boutique? Like a special edition or custom shop guitar from bigger companies like Gibson, PRS, Fender, etc. or do you mean a custom build from a luthier?
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It's true, Juniors are (relatively) very cheap for genuine vintage guitars. Not quite cheap enough to tempt me into buying one (....yet)
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I'm in favour of buying he guitar that sounds and plays great and makes you want to play. Buy the one you'll love and never want to part with, no matter what.
I'd say buy local (buy British) and support those skilled dedicated guys , so that they will become the cherished brands of tomorrow.
I think the vintage market is over-inflated by collectors rather than players, and recently prices are such that you might find it not to be so much of an investment.
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If you want to maximise resale:
* buy used
* buy a popular brand
* buy a popular model from said popular brand
that's probably sound advice. if i were buying based on resale etc. that's what i'd do.
that being said, trying to forecast what will happen in 10-20 years' time is incredibly difficult. and it's also debatable if buying something solely because of resale value is a good idea, because if you don't like the thing you're just increasing your chances of having to sell it.
i realise that's no help but at least it's pretty much the truth. guitar playing is a hobby, and like any other hobby, to do it right costs money. if you go in trying never to lose any money you could lose all the fun of it. That's not to say you should pay no attention to cost or be profligate or anything like that, but there's probably a happy medium where you're not being ripped off but not counting every penny either.
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I love the mojo of vintage instruments and am enthusiastic about that option.. but custom guitars can explore something that was never offered by the mainstream.
A large number of 70s and 80s Fender and Gibson instruments are surely in your price range.
The problem is that these are considered as a more "dodgy" period for both manufacturers - they still made some lovely instruments, but its well worth trying them out first. The guitars can be very heavy, and sometimes with poor neck fitting in the case of Fender.
The criteria we look at as players is different from the ones collectors look at, but generally as you point out its hard to lose money on a vintage guitar unless you buy a lemon. Some modded/repaired guitars might reduce the "vintage" value, but be fine as players.
For example: my number one is an early 80s Gibson V, not loved by collectors since it doesn't use the "right" woods - alder/maple, but it sounds great and I love the way it plays. It cost me just under a grand when I got it, I've gigged it, and now its worth probably at or just above a grand.
You might still be able to get a 60s guitar in the budget - something like a Fender Musicmaster for example.
Basically, choose a couple of models your interested in, spend a few hours on the internet doing research to know what the spec should be, try it out. Ebay and Gbase are good sites to sus out values.
edit: I think guitars made in the 90s are at their lowest 2ndhand value, they'll start to creep up again in a few years. They made some cool Les Paul studios in the 90s, some of which have full thickness bodies - one of the many options worth looking at perhaps.
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I was born in 1975 and have often fancied a guitar from that year. Over the years I've tried several Strats and Teles from '75 and they have all been horrible: really really poor quality. These days they will cost you nearly a couple of grand, which is preposterous. Collectors only care about year, desirability (did someone famous play one), and condition of an instrument and as late '60s (well into the CBS era) Fenders became unaffordable so the prices on early '70s guitars crept up and we're now at a point where mid to late '70s Fenders cost as much as a current, new, Custom Shop instrument. That's barmy, if you actually want to play the thing.
I've often thought the same about those 70s strats. For every good one there seems to be a handful of bad ones. In terms of playing it now, today, a modern USA or Japanese Fender would be far easier to buy blind.
I find with 70s Gibsons its easier to find a nice one. Having said that, some of them were pretty ropey in the late 70s too.
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^
Having started reading guitar magazines around 1981, when Japanese guitars were staring to gain respect and some small US companies like Hamer, Dean and BC Rich were emerging, I grew up with the "received wisdom" that the vast majority of '70s Fenders and Gibsons were utter cack. Whether this is true or not - and I think it certainly has some basis in fact! - I've never quite been able to get used to the idea that those '70s guitars are now "vintage" and command high prices!
if I'm going to be dropping £1000-2500 on an instrument, I would like it to be a wise choice, and one that will not be worth a lot less in years to come. Now this is a potential issue with boutique guitars- is a Tyler still going to be worth 2k in 5 years, or 10 years time? Hard to tell, and I'm thinking that it may be a risky choice, just due to the niche appeal.
Taking it away from the vintage discussion for a moment, I can't claim to know much about the boutique market but when I sold my Tyler it was one of the very few times I've sold a guitar for basically the same as I paid for it.
I get the impression things like Suhr, Anderson and Huber also hold their value well. I don't think the same is true of smaller boutique makers, if they're not sufficiently well-known the resale value seems to drop pretty sharply. Of course we don't know how any of these guitars will be regarded in years to come....
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The trouble I have with most vintage instruments is that the collector end of the market (as opposed to the player end) has pushed up prices on instruments of very questionable quality. I was born in 1975 and have often fancied a guitar from that year. Over the years I've tried several Strats and Teles from '75 and they have all been horrible: really really poor quality. These days they will cost you nearly a couple of grand, which is preposterous. Collectors only care about year, desirability (did someone famous play one), and condition of an instrument and as late '60s (well into the CBS era) Fenders became unaffordable so the prices on early '70s guitars crept up and we're now at a point where mid to late '70s Fenders cost as much as a current, new, Custom Shop instrument. That's barmy, if you actually want to play the thing.
Yep, agreed with this. I once had a 1975 Tele (I was also born in this great year). It was okayish but was priced higher than most Fender CS models (apart from the masterbuilt, teambuilt and limited edition). Completely insane considering the build quality comparison. The 75 had a fairly thick finish on it and some very strange misalignment on the string ferrules. Nothing that affected playability really, just stupid to pay more for an 'old' instrument than it is to buy a top notch new or second hand custom shop model.
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The accepted definition of vintage guitars is anything over 25 years, so frightenly (well for those of us who started playing in the 80s!!), 80's guitars are now starting to be considered vintage.
Interest in old guitars started when people wanted models that were no longer production (if you wanted a Les Paul in 1965 it would have to be 2nd hand), when specs changed, or production quality nosedived.
Most people when considering vintage instruments focus solely on the usual suspects ('bursts, 50s Strats/ Teles etc), see the astronomical prices and conclude that vintage instruments aren't worth bothering with.
However, there are plenty of great value quality vintage instruments, which are often cheaper than a modern equivalent.
For example you can get a straight 60's Guild Starfire IV or V for less than the price of a new Gibson ES-335.
60's Gretschs are good value too when compared with the modern reissues.
I often gig with a 50's Gibson ES-225T. Not everyones cup of tea, but a beautifully made instrument, which cost me about the same as a 2nd hand ES-135 (it's nearest modern equvilant).
Vintage accoustics can be very good value.
Vintage amps can also be very good value, and are often less than the price of a reissue.
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You should get a guitar by crimson guitars...
that's what I'd do.
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I concur with most opinions here. Buy a CS if you want a good instrument. Maybe there are excellent 70's Fenders, but I had a few and they were in my case not on par with modern CS's. Sold my 77 tele long ago. Didn't like the vintage radius too (that's just me, maybe others do).
If you want to buy vintage guitars in your pricerange I would look at Hamer Sunbursts and Specials, Yamaha SG1000, 1500 and 2000 (if you can bear the weight), Ibanez Artists from the seventies, early eighties, Gibson Les Pauls from the seventies (be careful, some are excellent, some not), Washburn Falcon/Eagle (made in Japan).
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If you want to buy vintage guitars in your pricerange I would look at Hamer Sunbursts and Specials, Yamaha SG1000, 1500 and 2000 (if you can bear the weight), Ibanez Artists from the seventies, early eighties, Gibson Les Pauls from the seventies (be careful, some are excellent, some not), Washburn Falcon/Eagle (made in Japan).
Wow, reading that I almost felt like I'd written it myself! :o
Those are some of my most-wanted guitars, and have been for the last 30-odd years (I've owned lots of Hamers, but none of the others)
But as you say, weight is an issue - they're from the era when people thought "the heavier the better".
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If you want to buy vintage guitars in your pricerange I would look at Hamer Sunbursts and Specials, Yamaha SG1000, 1500 and 2000 (if you can bear the weight), Ibanez Artists from the seventies, early eighties, Gibson Les Pauls from the seventies (be careful, some are excellent, some not), Washburn Falcon/Eagle (made in Japan).
Wow, reading that I almost felt like I'd written it myself! :o
Those are some of my most-wanted guitars, and have been for the last 30-odd years (I've owned lots of Hamers, but none of the others)
But as you say, weight is an issue - they're from the era when people thought "the heavier the better".
I know you're a Hamer-fan. Me too. I think they offer a very good price/quality-level if you can pick up a good one. And most of them are good.
My Yamaha SG700 was really good, but I could not stand the weight anymore.
I found Washburns always cool, especially the Falcon. Never got one, I don't know why.
For the music I play at the moment, I prefers strats and tele's, but some of these are still on my wishlist.
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I found Washburns always cool, especially the Falcon. Never got one, I don't know why.
They do turn up on eBay fairly regularly, but I'm adamant about getting one with an ash top and brass ring inlays!
There was a perfect one at one point last year, but I didn't bid high enough. :x
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I found Washburns always cool, especially the Falcon. Never got one, I don't know why.
They do turn up on eBay fairly regularly, but I'm adamant about getting one with an ash top and brass ring inlays!
There was a perfect one at one point last year, but I didn't bid high enough. :x
I like to play guitars before buying. I keep my eyes open on Marktplaats.nl, the Dutch Ebay-variant, which is owned now by Ebay.
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Some more random thoughts on 70s Fender Strats.
colour scheme and looks wise, its by far my favourite era. another thing to bear in mind, other than the neck pockets, and heavy body weights discussed is that the tremolo guitars have very badly manufactured tremolos which would disgrace even a Chinese Squier today. A hardtail would be better, and luckily they are quite easy to find. i also think its worth tracking down rosewood fingerboard guitars - i find them much more playable than the poly finished maple ones.
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I'm another 1975 baby :) I always followed the received wisdom about '70s Fenders and Gibsons, and indeed i remember when you couldn't give them away! i still pretty much accept it about Fenders. i know there are some decent ones out there, but the majority are awful, and the prices they go for now astound me. i've seen virtually unplayable strats and teles for up to £3500! Also Strats with virtually no body contouring. Gibsons do seem to be better, although one of the worst guitars i've ever played was a 1975 Les Paul Deluxe. nontheless, i have now gotten several '70s Gibsons, and they are all good guitars. my '75 Les Paul Standard is a fantastic guitar, and is now my no.1. in saying that, I have yet to come across a '70s SG that was anything more than very average.
1970s Marshalls are another matter, you can get an utterly fabulous amp for reasonable money.
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I feel kind of out of place for not being born in 1975 :(
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I feel kind of out of place for not being born in 1975 :(
At least (I'm guessing) you're younger than that lot? Some consolation, surely?
Vintage guitars from the year of my birth are a bit more expensive than '75 models. They weren't making Les Pauls that year, either... :?
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I feel kind of out of place for not being born in 1975 :(
At least (I'm guessing) you're younger than that lot? Some consolation, surely?
Indeed. I guess it's some consolation, yes, but I do regret not being older to have witnessed and experienced more of my favorite music while it was happening.
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Some more random thoughts on 70s Fender Strats.
colour scheme and looks wise, its by far my favourite era. another thing to bear in mind, other than the neck pockets, and heavy body weights discussed is that the tremolo guitars have very badly manufactured tremolos which would disgrace even a Chinese Squier today. A hardtail would be better, and luckily they are quite easy to find. i also think its worth tracking down rosewood fingerboard guitars - i find them much more playable than the poly finished maple ones.
Very useful addition. I totally agree with your preferences.
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...
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At least (I'm guessing) you're younger than that lot? Some consolation, surely?
Vintage guitars from the year of my birth are a bit more expensive than '75 models. They weren't making Les Pauls that year, either... :?
yeah those original martins get pretty expensive...
sorry you kinda lobbed it up and i couldn't resist :oops:
Indeed. I guess it's some consolation, yes, but I do regret not being older to have witnessed and experienced more of my favorite music while it was happening.
yeah that's what i sometimes think. what's even more annoying for me is that i was (just about) old enough to experience it first hand but wasn't into rock music then :sad:
but more seriously, i agree with philly for sure. I'd trade that stuff in in a second to be 18 again. pretty much anyone over the age of 25 would, lol.
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yeah those original martins get pretty expensive...
I had to go and research that to figure out how insulting it was.... :lol:
yeah that's what i sometimes think. what's even more annoying for me is that i was (just about) old enough to experience it first hand but wasn't into rock music then :sad:
but more seriously, i agree with philly for sure. I'd trade that stuff in in a second to be 18 again. pretty much anyone over the age of 25 would, lol.
If I could be 18 again, I'd still want to be back in the 1980s. Or 1970s. I don't think I'd want to be 18 now.
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yeah those original martins get pretty expensive...
I had to go and research that to figure out how insulting it was.... :lol:
yeah that's what i sometimes think. what's even more annoying for me is that i was (just about) old enough to experience it first hand but wasn't into rock music then :sad:
but more seriously, i agree with philly for sure. I'd trade that stuff in in a second to be 18 again. pretty much anyone over the age of 25 would, lol.
If I could be 18 again, I'd still want to be back in the 1980s. Or 1970s. I don't think I'd want to be 18 now.
Come on, no Lil Wayne or Lady Gaga for you?
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Dear God no (although I'm not sure I've ever actually heard Lil Wayne...)
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Dear God no (although I'm not sure I've ever actually heard Lil Wayne...)
Keep it that way! I'm proud to say that as well, along with most of those other "artists". And shows like Jersey Shore, Honey Boo Boo, etc.
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yeah those original martins get pretty expensive...
I had to go and research that to figure out how insulting it was.... :lol:
If I could be 18 again, I'd still want to be back in the 1980s. Or 1970s. I don't think I'd want to be 18 now.
LOL me too, i had to go to wikipedia to get that info about the martins :lol: I was originally gonna say something about lutes, but then according to wikipedia they technically weren't guitars so the whole joke would have fallen apart :lol: I was only joking, obviously, you're not that much older than me :) (that's not meant to be patronising, in case it comes across that way in print, lol)
I'm not sure i'd care (as long as it was in modern times with modern technology, medicine etc.) as long as i could be 18 again, lol.
EDIT: hey i like lady gaga :lol: :oops:
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I'm not sure i'd care (as long as it was in modern times with modern technology, medicine etc.) as long as i could be 18 again, lol.
Interesting that you specifically mentioned modern technology. I've been thinking about that today - even though modern digital technology is wonderful and it's hard to imagine life without it, I'm actually really glad I grew up before there were mobile phones or the internet.
When you went out, no-one expected to be able to contact you... you didn't ignore your environment and surround yourself in an "i-bubble" with your phone, tablet etc. If you wanted to check out new music, you had to take the trouble to go to a shop and take a gamble on buying something. If you needed to find something out, you had to go and look it up, maybe even go to a library(!) Even something like a TV programme, everyone would've watched it at the same time so there was something to talk about the next day. Everything involved some effort. It's too easy nowadays - it doesn't necessarily make people lazy as such, but if everything is a couple of clicks or a download away, it ceases to have any real value. In a few year's time, our entire collections of books, music, films, photo albums etc will just be files on a series of hard drives.... I don't know why really, but that really depresses me.
Sorry, I'm rambling.....
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I'm lucky enough to have several vintage guitars which I've owned for many years and didn't pay a fortune for. None of them are really collectors grade, which is fine by me because I paid a lot less for them than if they were, and I don't have to worry about keeping them perfect. There is some mojo to them, which I think is down to the older wood, as they are typically much lighter than the modern versions. Having said that, I also have a few custom guitars (I'm getting one of Jon's Feline 2012 Lions) and would recommend that if you know what you want. If not, then I would follow everyone else's advice and find a guitar that you like at a price you can afford. I have a 1995 LP Classic which I play a lot. I got it for a great price because it had a headstock break, but the repair is strong and well done and the guitar plays really nicely and holds it's tuning fine. I swapped out the pickups to get the sound I wanted, and it will hold its value I'm sure.
If you are going for an investment, then you need to find a great example of a current classic guitar and keep in in good shape for 20 years and hope you picked the right one (and that the guitar market still exists like today in 20 years time). It's a long shot, so just get something you can play now and enjoy.
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In years to come i wander if "country of origin" will be as important. In the past, vintage guitars had to bear the words "made in U.S.A" to be considered classics. 70's and 80's Japanese guitars are considered vintage classics nowadays and rightly so. these days you can get solidly built guitars from Mexico, Korea and even China but do you think these will be so highly regarded in 30 years time?
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I think the originals will always be the most sought after, and so US guitars will be the ones to have...
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Interesting that you specifically mentioned modern technology. I've been thinking about that today - even though modern digital technology is wonderful and it's hard to imagine life without it, I'm actually really glad I grew up before there were mobile phones or the internet.
When you went out, no-one expected to be able to contact you... you didn't ignore your environment and surround yourself in an "i-bubble" with your phone, tablet etc. If you wanted to check out new music, you had to take the trouble to go to a shop and take a gamble on buying something. If you needed to find something out, you had to go and look it up, maybe even go to a library(!) Even something like a TV programme, everyone would've watched it at the same time so there was something to talk about the next day. Everything involved some effort. It's too easy nowadays - it doesn't necessarily make people lazy as such, but if everything is a couple of clicks or a download away, it ceases to have any real value. In a few year's time, our entire collections of books, music, films, photo albums etc will just be files on a series of hard drives.... I don't know why really, but that really depresses me.
Sorry, I'm rambling.....
I grew up (just about) before those things too... I prefer it now, lol. I'm a lazy git, but it's awesome now things are handier. if i want to see what music i like i can check it out on youtube. which is much better than driving 40 miles to belfast to see if hmv had something i wanted in stock, and if they did, i probably had to pay £20 for it.
i was talking more about more important things like modern medicine and the like, though. I wasn't even really thinking of the internet and stuff like that. granted things like antibiotics have been around since ww2 and (rudimentary) anaesthetics since the US civil war. I wouldn't want to live before the advent of either of those things (and medicine has come a long way since then, too).
EDIT: that's probably actually a point worth mentioning- I'm guessing you still lived in london before the internet etc. was invented. Life probably still was pretty good back then even without it. But for people who live in the sticks the internet is a godsend, frankly.
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i had the very same thought, i like a lot of modern technology, but we all managed just fine without being in 24 hour contact with everyone. but as you say Dave, out here in the wilds it was a lot harder to come by music, books, films, anything really! even now, we still have to travel if we want to actually see bands.
i'm about 40 miles from Belfast too, but i think it's in a different direction. glad there's more than one direction :P
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EDIT: that's probably actually a point worth mentioning- I'm guessing you still lived in london before the internet etc. was invented. Life probably still was pretty good back then even without it. But for people who live in the sticks the internet is a godsend, frankly.
I actually grew up in Swansea, so sort of halfway between being in the sticks and being in a really big city. I used to walk five miles to town along the seafront to spend two weeks' pocket money on a Robin Trower or Rainbow album - every penny counted, no spare cash for the bus! :lol:
I can't really imagine growing up in London, it would've been a weird place to go to school I think.... depends where in London you were, of course.
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If you are going for an investment, then you need to find a great example of a current classic guitar and keep in in good shape for 20 years and hope you picked the right one (and that the guitar market still exists like today in 20 years time). It's a long shot, so just get something you can play now and enjoy.
An important point to be considered. I sell guitars, and can see how much the stock of good tone woods is drying up in terms of major manufacturers. 20 years from now most guitars in shops could be carbon fibre, so be thankful for your pine bodied squiers while you can still buy them.
I`m not much of a gear flipper, and am by no means a collector. My humble opinion is sod the resale value and desirability, play something that inspires you.
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In years to come i wander if "country of origin" will be as important. In the past, vintage guitars had to bear the words "made in U.S.A" to be considered classics. 70's and 80's Japanese guitars are considered vintage classics nowadays and rightly so. these days you can get solidly built guitars from Mexico, Korea and even China but do you think these will be so highly regarded in 30 years time?
Trying to say something on topic ( :lol:), I think that's a good point.
Japanese guitars have definitely acquired some vintage value, and there's the whole legend built up around particular factories like Fujigen and Matsumoku.
I don't think there's any evidence of anything similar building up around Korean guitars, even though they've been around for a long time now. Maybe some of the Mexican Fenders will acquire a bit of a following in years to come, I don't know.
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If you are going for an investment, then you need to find a great example of a current classic guitar and keep in in good shape for 20 years and hope you picked the right one (and that the guitar market still exists like today in 20 years time). It's a long shot, so just get something you can play now and enjoy.
An important point to be considered. I sell guitars, and can see how much the stock of good tone woods is drying up in terms of major manufacturers. 20 years from now most guitars in shops could be carbon fibre, so be thankful for your pine bodied squiers while you can still buy them.
I`m not much of a gear flipper, and am by no means a collector. My humble opinion is sod the resale value and desirability, play something that inspires you.
I have read somewhere that wood guitars could be phased out soon. Not sure about the validity of it, but it's certainly quite frightening to think about if you ask me!
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In years to come i wander if "country of origin" will be as important. In the past, vintage guitars had to bear the words "made in U.S.A" to be considered classics. 70's and 80's Japanese guitars are considered vintage classics nowadays and rightly so. these days you can get solidly built guitars from Mexico, Korea and even China but do you think these will be so highly regarded in 30 years time?
Trying to say something on topic ( :lol:), I think that's a good point.
Japanese guitars have definitely acquired some vintage value, and there's the whole legend built up around particular factories like Fujigen and Matsumoku.
I don't think there's any evidence of anything similar building up around Korean guitars, even though they've been around for a long time now. Maybe some of the Mexican Fenders will acquire a bit of a following in years to come, I don't know.
I agree; some of the Korean factories (World and Unsung in particular) have increasingly high reputations for the guitars they make for the likes of PRS SE and Ltd, but I don't think that will be enough to make them "vintage" in twenty years' time. My gut feeling is that the drivers which created the vintage guitar market and then the "lawsuit" guitar industry are unlikely to arise again. Companies are much better at marketing, hitting different price points and responding to trends.
As I've always understood it, the vintage guitar market was essentially created by Gibson; they stopped making a guitar that went on to become iconic and were slow to spot the demand when guitar players were after sunburst Les Pauls, forcing them to buy used. These days, if a model is out of production when demand or a suitable niche arises, manufacturers bring them back - there are quite a number of models I can think of from the '90s and early 2000s that have reappeared in recent years just around the point when changing trends might have sent people to eBay and Craigslist to hunt down originals.
I don't know if there's a chance for modern guitars to develop that mystique based on unavailability; maybe US Hamers will start to appreciate now, but at a certain point I imagine that would provoke FMIC into reviving the brand (evidenced by shiny new Guild electrics at NAMM this year).
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I don't know if there's a chance for modern guitars to develop that mystique based on unavailability; maybe US Hamers will start to appreciate now, but at a certain point I imagine that would provoke FMIC into reviving the brand (evidenced by shiny new Guild electrics at NAMM this year).
I've noticed that vintage (i.e. '80s) Hamers are going relatively cheap on eBay. More recent models - which were much more highly-priced when new - are still quite pricey, but I don't know if they're actually selling at those prices.
Willcutt guitars have a whole load of beautiful new Hamers in stock. I thought US production had completely ceased, so I guess they must be new old stock:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Willcutt-Guitars/_i.html?_nkw=hamer&_sid=13414687 (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Willcutt-Guitars/_i.html?_nkw=hamer&_sid=13414687)
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Those actually do look really nice.
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the only "vintage" guitar i own is a 79 Guild S-60 (love that guitar, hence the user name) and although it's been used and abused over the years, it still plays great and sounds fantastic (only guitar i've owned that i haven't wanted to change the pickups). i also own a 98 Dearmond Starfire Special which was basically a cheaper Guild re-issue made in Korea, the secondhand values of these has risen quite a bit recently. As you said earlier they are re-issuing them again with the Guild logo and made in Korea again i believe. i love Fender guitars but what they've done with some of the companies they have aquired leaves a lot to desired, i guess that's buisiness though.
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i had the very same thought, i like a lot of modern technology, but we all managed just fine without being in 24 hour contact with everyone. but as you say Dave, out here in the wilds it was a lot harder to come by music, books, films, anything really! even now, we still have to travel if we want to actually see bands.
i'm about 40 miles from Belfast too, but i think it's in a different direction. glad there's more than one direction :P
yeah i think so. :lol:
I actually grew up in Swansea, so sort of halfway between being in the sticks and being in a really big city. I used to walk five miles to town along the seafront to spend two weeks' pocket money on a Robin Trower or Rainbow album - every penny counted, no spare cash for the bus! :lol:
I can't really imagine growing up in London, it would've been a weird place to go to school I think.... depends where in London you were, of course.
yeah i think the ideal is probably not being in a big city but being close enough to one that you can pretty much go as often as you like.
I have read somewhere that wood guitars could be phased out soon. Not sure about the validity of it, but it's certainly quite frightening to think about if you ask me!
can we use that as an excuse for buying way too many guitars? :D
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I have read somewhere that wood guitars could be phased out soon. Not sure about the validity of it, but it's certainly quite frightening to think about if you ask me!
can we use that as an excuse for buying way too many guitars? :D
I had better bring forward my spending plans before it's too late....
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I have read somewhere that wood guitars could be phased out soon. Not sure about the validity of it, but it's certainly quite frightening to think about if you ask me!
can we use that as an excuse for buying way too many guitars? :D
I had better bring forward my spending plans before it's too late....
I was gonna say all you guys who have sold loads of wooden guitars over the years will kicking yerselves :lol:
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Yeah when those silly plywood guitars go on eBay for $1000 I'll sure be kicking myself.
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I had better bring forward my spending plans before it's too late....
:lol:
you'll need to save some of that money for a few more beds, though...
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I was thinking I might go for a bunk bed and chuck out the bottom bunk.
Actually, that's really not a bad idea..... :? :lol:
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hahahaha :lol: