Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Marco78 on February 03, 2013, 06:25:03 PM

Title: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 03, 2013, 06:25:03 PM
Probably in the next days I'll trade my amp with Burny Les Paul custom model (black beauty), classic LP custom with mahogany top but with rosewood fretboard. In it are installed zebra Fralin pups (that I don't like in LP custom), I'll sell it and will get BK pups with gold cover. I'll use this guitar for rock and hard rock music, no metal at all. I prefer vintage voicing, no modern sound.

For the neck pickups I want PAF type pup with smooth sound for old Santana tone (not modern ones with PRS guitars!). Generally paf style pickups that I have had in the past are too muddy with poor clarity on heavy string (probably depends of wood and short scale) and/or not enough smooth on high string. Does exist a pickups clear on heavy string without any muddyness but with smooth vibe on long bending?

For the bridge pickups generally I prefer a meaty sound (but with vintage vibe, NO metal or modern stuff) and I hate a lot of treble in this position typical of PAF underwound pups. In this position I would a not smooth pickup but some that can "roar" for '80 hard rock sound (Randy Roads, Van Halen and similar).
I would a good balance between muddy neck and treblish bridge. I prefer a calibrated set, if is it possible, otherwise I can get different pickup, no problem.

PS: I know that the sound depend on the amp and pedal too. ;)

Thanks a lot
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: darkbluemurder on February 03, 2013, 06:39:41 PM
Crawler bridge = not too much treble, can roar, but is quite smooth. VHII would not be smooth, could still roar but has quite a lot of treble. Abraxas would be a good choice.

For the neck pickup it depends what you choose for the bridge. If you go Abraxas, get the full set. If you go Crawler, get the VHII neck. I have this combination in my LP Standard.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 03, 2013, 06:54:40 PM
Crawler bridge = not too much treble, can roar, but is quite smooth. VHII would not be smooth, could still roar but has quite a lot of treble. Abraxas would be a good choice.

For the neck pickup it depends what you choose for the bridge. If you go Abraxas, get the full set. If you go Crawler, get the VHII neck. I have this combination in my LP Standard.

Cheers Stephan

If I listen the sample on BK site, is the neck on rhythm part and bridge on solo?
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: BigB on February 03, 2013, 07:13:00 PM

If I listen the sample on BK site, is the neck on rhythm part and bridge on solo?

If you pay attention you'll notice that you usually a sample of all (or most for the strat sets) positions for the lead parts. Can't tell about the rythm parts...
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 03, 2013, 07:29:13 PM
The boy have change his mind and don't sell the guitar anymore!!  :chain:

I have to find another custom!!!  :?

However, the crawler bridge seem very good from sample, but Crawler, Abraxas and Mule neck are very similar on the spec. Is it the sound very similar?
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: ericsabbath on February 03, 2013, 10:52:35 PM
black dog bridge, mule neck
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 04, 2013, 12:23:39 PM
Black Dog bridge from the sample is good for my taste!

So Crawler, Black Dog or??
I don't like the Abraxas...
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: darkbluemurder on February 04, 2013, 01:27:29 PM
The Black Dog bridge is indeed a fine pickup, and it would tick the boxes you mentioned.

The Black Dog neck is a fine pickup, too, but it's not particularly vintage sounding. Hence Eric recommended the Mule for the neck, and I think it is a good suggestion.

The Crawler bridge/VHII neck combination would have a bit more output than the Black Dog bridge/Mule neck combination.

Just curious: what did you not like about the Abraxas?

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 04, 2013, 02:12:46 PM
The Black Dog bridge is indeed a fine pickup, and it would tick the boxes you mentioned.

The Black Dog neck is a fine pickup, too, but it's not particularly vintage sounding. Hence Eric recommended the Mule for the neck, and I think it is a good suggestion.

The Crawler bridge/VHII neck combination would have a bit more output than the Black Dog bridge/Mule neck combination.

Just curious: what did you not like about the Abraxas?

Cheers Stephan

I think that is a combination of AIV and overwound pickup... too "muffled"

For the neck pickup I think that Riff Raff is better... I have had a AIV PAF in my Suhr standard clone, and the AIV is a little "flat"... Tim, some time ago, suggested the Riff Raff for old Santana sound. Also I would a little "contrast" between neck and bridge.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on February 04, 2013, 02:13:47 PM
I don't agree with the Crawler recommendation personally... BD seems like a much better choice.
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: darkbluemurder on February 04, 2013, 02:16:14 PM
OK, if you found the Abraxas too muffled, then stay away from the Crawler - it would be more "muffled" (I had both in the same guitar). Black Dog for the bridge then.

If Tim recommends the Riff Raff neck for old Santana tones then go for it. I believe there is at least one forum member with the Black Dog bridge/Riff Raff neck combination.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 04, 2013, 03:13:10 PM
If Tim recommends the Riff Raff neck for old Santana tones then go for it. I believe there is at least one forum member with the Black Dog bridge/Riff Raff neck combination.

Cheers Stephan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I)

The bridge is very meaty!!! and very good balance with neck!!
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: darkbluemurder on February 04, 2013, 04:44:13 PM
Well - the neck pickup is not featured a lot in this one but it's a great demo of the Black Dog bridge. Of course - being able to play like this helps a lot!

I think the best representation of the pickup (or should I say the way it matches what I hear from it in my guitar) is the riffing. A lot of the meat in the solo comes from the wha but the clarity of the pickup shows how well the wha works with it. If you have an overriding midresponse from the pickup the wha will not work as well.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Cpt_Gonzo on February 04, 2013, 04:50:42 PM
Just a short question, and I don't mean to offend here.

have you actually tried the Abraxas neck or are you just assuming that Alnico IV magnets with a "hotter" wind will sound muffled?
Because you can't generalize it like that. It's more than just the magnet type and DC res in kOhms. The wire, the way the coils are wound and the used materials equally have an influence, and I would steer away from calling the Abraxas neck "muffled". Same goes for the Mule neck.
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 04, 2013, 05:31:32 PM
Well - the neck pickup is not featured a lot in this one but it's a great demo of the Black Dog bridge. Of course - being able to play like this helps a lot!

I think the best representation of the pickup (or should I say the way it matches what I hear from it in my guitar) is the riffing. A lot of the meat in the solo comes from the wha but the clarity of the pickup shows how well the wha works with it. If you have an overriding midresponse from the pickup the wha will not work as well.

Cheers Stephan

There are other some video of this guy, but the quality is low! ;)

Just a short question, and I don't mean to offend here.

have you actually tried the Abraxas neck or are you just assuming that Alnico IV magnets with a "hotter" wind will sound muffled?
Because you can't generalize it like that. It's more than just the magnet type and DC res in kOhms. The wire, the way the coils are wound and the used materials equally have an influence, and I would steer away from calling the Abraxas neck "muffled". Same goes for the Mule neck.

I don't have tried any BK pups, but I can't buy all to have an idea. I don't like the sample of this pickups, I don't think that can have a tone that would be good for me. I don't say that a bad pickups, but that isn't good for me. I have had a barfuss PAF with A4 in it, and don't like, so I can choose, I will not get this type of pickups.
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Telerocker on February 04, 2013, 07:43:25 PM
Black Dog, Mule-neck, great combo. Also, the Abraxas for the bridge is nice and beefy.
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Cpt_Gonzo on February 04, 2013, 07:55:16 PM
I suppose you had the Barfuss Pat.Ap. for?

I had that one, too. If you found the neck pickup of it lacking or too muddy then we'll need to search a really bright neck pickup for you. Something like the Emerald?
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 05, 2013, 07:37:01 AM
Black Dog, Mule-neck, great combo. Also, the Abraxas for the bridge is nice and beefy.

I think that I'll go for Riff Raff / Black Dog, but I'll hear before the unplugged guitar, when I'll buy it.

I suppose you had the Barfuss Pat.Ap. for?

I had that one, too. If you found the neck pickup of it lacking or too muddy then we'll need to search a really bright neck pickup for you. Something like the Emerald?

It was a custom pickup made for me: 7,8 kohm, 42 PE, A4. Imho it was too "flat" or "hi-fi", it lack character is difficult to explain with word. Probably Mule is different, but I think that Riff Raff is more adapt. :)
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: darkbluemurder on February 05, 2013, 08:04:11 AM
It was a custom pickup made for me: 7,8 kohm, 42 PE, A4.

That is very much like the Crawler neck specs. I guess I was on the right track to recommend the VHII neck instead of the Crawler neck - it's more defined in the bottom end. Nevertheless, after reading all of the comments I believe Black Dog bridge and Riff Raff neck will work best.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 05, 2013, 12:57:18 PM
It was a custom pickup made for me: 7,8 kohm, 42 PE, A4.

That is very much like the Crawler neck specs. I guess I was on the right track to recommend the VHII neck instead of the Crawler neck - it's more defined in the bottom end. Nevertheless, after reading all of the comments I believe Black Dog bridge and Riff Raff neck will work best.

Cheers Stephan

Thanks a lot Stephan!  :)
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 05, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Tim advice with mule neck and emerald/abraxas bridge... mhhh.....
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Telerocker on February 06, 2013, 12:37:39 AM
Tim advice with mule neck and emerald/abraxas bridge... mhhh.....

So a lot of us were right or close. Listen to Tim, he knows his pickups!
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: darkbluemurder on February 06, 2013, 08:44:38 AM
Mule neck is a bit smoother than Riff Raff - at least that seems the common opinion on these two.

Since you ruled out the Abraxas for you that would then leave you with the Emerald for the bridge spot. From what I read it does have a lot of treble.

You have probably already listened to the classic rock clips of The Mule, Riff Raff, Black Dog, Emerald and Abraxas. You may want to listen to them again.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 06, 2013, 09:04:44 AM
You have probably already listened to the classic rock clips of The Mule, Riff Raff, Black Dog, Emerald and Abraxas. You may want to listen to them again.
Cheers Stephan

For the neck slot, probably I'll choose Mule, Tim say me that is more clearer that riff raff.
For the bridge slot the chooise is more difficult: in this moment I'm hearing the sample of BD, EM and AB... I like the AB on the solos for the smooth character, but for rhythm stuff, EM and BG are better because I like so much the greater amount of treble frequencies. The choice is very hard!!!  :(
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Telerocker on February 06, 2013, 06:51:01 PM
Black Dog definitely. It has quite some centermids, but the topend is very alive. Great pickup for classic rock.
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 07, 2013, 07:48:49 AM
Luckily the guy that had to sell me the guitar have changing his mind another time! So probably in the next days I'll do the trade and I'll can the hear the guitar to choose the pickups better...  :lol:
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: darrenw5094 on February 07, 2013, 10:16:50 PM
I believe there is at least one forum member with the Black Dog bridge/Riff Raff neck combination.

Cheers Stephan

I am one. RR has much lower gain, so when switching from bridge to neck, feels a bit like a single coil. It's also brighter, so going from bridge to neck is not as bassy as normal.
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 08, 2013, 04:08:22 PM
I am one. RR has much lower gain, so when switching from bridge to neck, feels a bit like a single coil. It's also brighter, so going from bridge to neck is not as bassy as normal.

I don't understand... Have RR much lower gain in comparison to BD? And would I feel BD like single coil?
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Gibson 1964 on February 08, 2013, 09:23:50 PM
If I understand correctly, he is saying the riff raff neck is almost single coil like. Meaning the shift from a black dog in the bridge to the riff raff in the neck will not be as vast or as bassy.

I own a set of riff raffs in an LP firebrand deluxe. Match made in heaven, though I totally get the single coil like sound from the neck pickup.

The riff raffs are not very high output. This lends them to be chimier, open and having a nice top end in my estimation.
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: darrenw5094 on February 08, 2013, 10:18:39 PM
I am one. RR has much lower gain, so when switching from bridge to neck, feels a bit like a single coil. It's also brighter, so going from bridge to neck is not as bassy as normal.

I don't understand... Have RR much lower gain in comparison to BD? And would I feel BD like single coil?

RR has a lot less gain, as in overdrive than the BD. The switch from BD to RR in the neck is like engaging a single coil, but the volume are equal in both pickups.

No the BD is not like a single coil, it's a hot humbucker with plenty of mids.

I think Gibson 1964 understood what i meant perfectly.
Title: Re: Burny Les Paul Custom
Post by: Marco78 on February 09, 2013, 08:04:40 AM
RR has a lot less gain, as in overdrive than the BD. The switch from BD to RR in the neck is like engaging a single coil, but the volume are equal in both pickups.

No the BD is not like a single coil, it's a hot humbucker with plenty of mids.

I think Gibson 1964 understood what i meant perfectly.

Ok, now I have understand... ;)