Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Don on February 28, 2006, 08:13:19 PM
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Hi all there!
I want to try out bkps and I will install a calibtared set of Warpigs or Miracle Mans in my Gibson (Mahogany for sure) Explorer. At least I don't like the neck pickup (think it's a 498 or 496) too muddy too less gain saturation but I can work quite well with the 500T at bridge, it's a quite good pickup I think... so the reason for changing both of them is on the one hand get a better neck and on the other hand just trying out new stuff, like to again and again modify and curiosity...
The main reason I'm writing is that I'm sure that I could work very well with the Miracle mans but as I said I'm curious and I think that the Warpigs might be the more extraordinary Pickups. My problem is that I don't know too much about how they sound as alnico V/23 kOhm is quite a special specification I think.... I've listened to all the sound samples, but I'm sorry, I can't get too much out of it... I can't imagine what a Warpig sounds like through a 200 Watt Tube Amplifier with two 4x12 cabs after listening to a POD mp3... I use a Diezel Herbert, which is quite flexible in tone, tons of bass and gain, no problem... By the way I can work quite well with an EMG81 at neck for solos and shred... I like the thick saturation of it. I'm quite into metal (harder stuff). I play standart tuning half step down, 0.10-0.46 strings, 24.75 scale. I like Guitar sounds like Pantera, late Carcass,late Death,late Over Kill, I'm not after battered sounds like Venom, Dismember, old Entombed, old Carcass, Punk and that stuff though I like those Bands too.... I don't need clean sounds with that guitar.
Again I know the Miracle Mans might be exactly my Pickups, but my question is how different do the Warpigs sound compared to them, how big is the difference in clarity, gain saturation, bite, pinch harmonics, response. Do you think the warpigs will offer me a big adventure and satisfy my needs or do you think I'll be screwed by them as I don't wanna play dropped down old school punkrock?
thanks for your advice, Rock on! Don
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iīm in the same doubts
but i have all the 4 high gain bkps to decide for..
MM, WP, NB, And the new painkiller
iīll order as soon as the new site revamps.
so, iīll have more info to base my choice on Before ordering.
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hails man, im into extreme metal too
i like distortions like the decapitated - nihility cd, and carcass heartworks, just to name 2.
i have a 5150 and a marshall 4x12 1960 cabinet.
one guitar tuned in C(ibz s1220 wnf prestige), and a charvel fusion deluxe tuned in D.
iīm undecided about $$ and tone, on which pickups to get
just like you.
but my main problem is that i didnīt know my amp very well YET, i din[t have enough time and ROOM to test it, so i canīt choose my pickups yet, i need to be 100% sure that they will not overpower the already natural tonal qualities of the amp, and not sound scooped in any frequencies.
i like tons of mids, but my amp has already tons of mids... BUT, i donīt a pickup with scooped mids too. also, i donīt really want a big boost of highs, but Scooped, or Unbalanced Highs arenīt for me too. And extremely big bottom end that will probably get muddy, or too bassy, is not with me.. and , iīm Guessing that alll.. cause i didnīt play any of the bkp pickup, and iīm short on money to get those pickups.
iīll get 241,44 UK pounds and spend it into either a set of BKPS for my charvel, or a set of bkp for my ibanez. canīt decide yetif iīll get a set of emgs and a set of bkps, or a set of dimarzios and a set of bkps.. i donīt know if iīll have enough $$$ to get 2 bkp sets.
Q:p
SO, as you can see, iīm totally Undecided.
I liKED All the 3 bkp Pickups.
miracle man, Nailbomb, Warpig.
And also decided that, my next spare money, will be burned into a set of the mules for my strat. AWESOME Sound on them.
J.P
$%&#ing hails
WELCOME TO THE FORUM.
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....Good idea to wait for the new site to come up, but when will it come and will it feature much more information? I don't wanna wait too long.
Who's the painkiller (Specs?)
There must be some users in the forum that have tried the Warpig and the Miracle Man..... I'll wait for your answers, thanks a lot.
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Painkiller is the new prototype of pickup timīs developing.
the guys will chime in and throw more info on your topic.
HOPE someone throw in some light on mine too, ahahahah
Hails
J.P
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Does someone know anything about that Painkiller? Type of magnet, kOhms, date of release....
Tell me more about Warpigs please, what can I expect?
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from what i heard here in the forum
painkiller will have crunchy mids and TIGHT bass(just donīt know if it will be tighter than the mm and warpig) . And itīs designed to be a metal pickup, but different from what they have done before(nailbombm, warpig, miracle man)
So.. they didnīt talked about the highs... thats what iīm waiting for. a full review. i guess itīs ceramic magnet.
donīt know when it will be released. timīs working on the pickup voicing, i guess.
warpig - tight and lots of bass. lots of mids too, donīt know about the highs.someone chime in about the highs. AND HIGH OUTPUT.
MM ultra tight bass, "smooth"(can be called scooped or reduced mids?) Mids and screaming highs. High output.
Nailbomb, the better cleans, from metal pickups....
balanced overal tone. great for leads. and lots of crunchy mids. Balanced bass(can be called reduced or ? Balanced Then?!)
and good moderated/high output.
Correct me guys if iīm wrong. please.
are you on carnival holyday too, or just me here in brazil?
J.P
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Painkiller, maybe a Blade-magnet like Dimebucker for example, something new...
I need a neck pickup that's got much output and not too much mids. For me the EMG81 is great at neck. As far as real Distortion sound is concerned, EMGs work quite well for me.
But I want to try out somethin new now...
From the specs, 23 kOhm, Warpig shouldn't have too much highs, as conventional pickups loose on highs the more Ohms they have, but I think the BKP guys must have compensated that effect somehow, otherwise the Warpig wouldn't have that good critics, otherwise it would be great for Jazz, but not for metal... You can't make a good Metal pickup without highs and good high mids... so that's what I wonder about, is it really usable for clean solid thrash and death, like dew-scented, malevolent creation or whatever or is it more for the dirty sound, the punk way etc....
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from the neck, i guess you will like the miracle man neck.
its alnico 5.
or, the nailbomb.
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Shouldn't the warpig neck be hotter than the mm? I don't think the nailbomb is good for that axe, it's gonna be a strickt total heavy axe, maybe for my selfbuilt Les Paul...nailbombs...but I'll wait with that...
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on the painkiller, there's a picture of it in the gallery somewhere and it has normal pole pieces. I doubt tim would go for rails. It's named after the judas priest song, so that'll be the sort of tone it'll be aimed at. I'm going to get one as soon as I find some money.
I haven't used a miracle man, but I can speak for the warpig. It excels in modern metal tones, the mid scooped really heavy stuff, because the bass response is frankly colossal and the highs are very cutting. I've heard it described as what you'd expect an emg81 to sound like. Basically it'll eat the tones you're suggesting for breakfast with your bass control on about 3. It's unbelievably versatile, as well. There's very little you won't be able to do with them and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if your 'pigged metal axe becomes your weapon of choice for clean tones as well. The output is insane, yes (you can hear it unamplified through headphones. A bit. Yes, I was bored enough to try.), but I seriously wouldn't worry about it compromising tone. It just doesn't. Presumably tim's winding techniques aren't subject to laws of physics.
I believe the miracle man is supposed to have a tone closer to the emg85.
You might have gathered, I'm a bit biased.
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Hails man
can you post some clips of your WP?
describe to me the balance between the mids, highs and bass.
of the wp.
iīm worried that the warpig can have just a little bit of highs.
Q:(
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somewhere I read it the opposite way, that the warpig would be closer to the EMG85, the MM to the EMG81... I think that's right? As the 85 has more bass and alnico, 81 is ceramic..... anyway though I haven't had an 85 since a long time I think 81 and 85 aren't tooooo far from each other??? Would you also say there's not too much difference between the Pig and the Man just concerning the distorted sound...
Thanks!!!
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^^Yeah, next time I'm around a decent amp I'll record some stuff. Could be a while, but I'll try.
In a nutshell, the pig is bass heavy, but the highs are reasonably loud and as I said very sutting, so they're more audible than they are loud, if you know what I mean. The mids are pretty low, comparatively, but not so low you can only so scooped stuff.
If it helps, some of the amp settings (bass-mid-treble) I use (guitar tone control at 5) are:
cowboys from hell - bridge pickup - 7,5,8
i believe in a thing called love - bridge pickup - 3,8,7
dark saga (iced earth) - bridge pickup - 5,4,7 - the clean passages in this work really well
sad but true - both pickups - 7,1,8 -
a rough idea at least. The bass isn't even trying, but the highs do need to be pushed a bit to get going. It's really not a lot though (for a kirk hammett tone I think TG suggested about 7,2,7 or something), with a decent amp you'll be able to cover the stuff you're looking at pretty easily. I still had half my guitar's tone control to turn the treble up there, don't forget. Also bear in mind that this is a big mahogany ravelle that was reviewed as 'too' bass heavy with the stock duncans we're talking about. So I think you'll have plenty of highs to work with.
^Spec wise it would make sense actually. I do think of my pigs being closer to 81s, but then I don't own emgs to compare them to, so you might want to seek a second opinion on that. I don't have a miracle man, so I can't really compare them properly.
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OK GT I'll listen to that again with the controls in mind... thanks
The MM should have cutting highs, loud ones, so the difference between Warpig and MM is bigger than I thought???
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DON, the highs, the tightness of the bass, and the amount of MIDS.
MM=more tightness on the bass, less mids, and more highs.
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actually come to think of it i did get the emg references the wrong way round. I need more sleep. And emg need more distinctive model names. Sorry about that.
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No matter... thanks anyway. Lookin forwaed for any more information about the warpig. Are you quite satisfied with the neck pu too? anyway at least I think you never know how a pickup sounds unless installed in your equipment and played by your own hands.....
Anyway if its got enough gain I think I'll manage to come around with it and the Diezel...... You think it's got enough gain, I mean gain consists a lot of high mids and top frequencies or not? I think I'll take regular chrome caps with standart screws, should add some clarity compared to allen...
thank you Don
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Actually I prefer the neck pickup, especially for cleans. It has a really warm clean tone that turns incredibly dark and brooding if you want it to, and it just sounds huge when distorted. It's almost too metal for metal, if you know what I mean. It's not quite so faithful to the typical heavy metal sound, it takes it that bit further. I play through it 80% of the time, but of course I can't guarantee you'll like what I do about it.
I'll have to get some sound clips up, won't I?
To be honest, the amount of gain is the last thing you need to be worrying about. I replaced a JB/Jazz set with them, the duncans might not be the highest output pickups around, but the difference was unbelievable. In general I now work on rolling off to volume 1 to get basically clean, where the duncans would do similar at 4. With an amp as heavy as yours, you'll never be even close to short on gain.
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YES. lets tal, more action
ahahahaah i mean, more action=soundclips
HHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
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Yeah GT you're right, I got a Jazz/JB in another guitar too, it's a good combo but little short of power, I have too use Channel 3 of my Herbert to get a real Distortion sound with the JB, on Channel 2 it's just slightly beyond AC/DC or so... Usin an EMG81 or Gibson 500T I have the real rhythm thing on Channel 2, Channel 3 is more for leads then with endless sustain, it's almost too much for Riffs, except you want to sound like Dimebag on far beyond driven for example. On the other Hand the JB gives a good rock tone and I love the reaction on pinch harmonics of it, it's got a nice rounded sound, but not enough power for my kind of sound... But it's a good pu... but I'll have to exchange it in a while... maybe with miracle mans in that guitar, when I go for the Warpigs that time.
So you can promise me the warpig has tons of bass, but there's no muddyness? Can you have a good distortionsound for leads on the low strings while you are usin the neck-pu. Cleans are not important for me, I can use my Jazz/JB combo for that....
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imo, the MM has a tighter bass than the WP. I'd liken the MM to that ultra-tight bass end that Metallica had on And Justice For All whereas the WP has a bigger bass end (still tight) and would be more like Down or COC, that BIG BASS sound.
The WP still has great mids, not scooped at all, and just the right amount of top end - it sounds good clean too.
Overall, the MM is very focused and god for old-school thrash where the WP is more modern.
From the conversation I had with Tim, the Painkiller is going to fall somewhere between the MM and WP with a ceramic magnet and blistering midrange :D
:twisted:
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AHAHAHAH HEAVIER THAN HELL
$%&#ing thanks for the explanations
Q:)
i Apreciate it.
Also... if you tell me the leads on thePK will SOUND LIKE a smoother(not scooped or reduces, lets name it Velvet, or sweet, or SINGING version of the MM, iīll definitely buy the PAINKILLER without a doubt.)version from the ones found on the MM, with the same amount of highs , but different voicing. would be my perfect bridge pup.
Hails
J.P
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ahahahah Bass As SOlid and tight As a Rock.
Crushing and blistering mids, like a vulcanic eruption
and Singing Highs Like a Bird.
AjaHAHAHAhaHAHAahAHahAHa
perfect
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COC, Down, Crowbar etc. they all tune down a lot or use bariton guitars... Not so my case... hope the WP sounds well in standart tuning too and hope its got enough highs. I think it's better if there are enough highs from the pickup than using lots of treble and presence on the amp, what can make the sound clanking or uncomfortable sharp...
Otherwise a hot ceramic can be like that too...
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HTH, that's the impression I get, with the miracle man being more old school and stuff.
Don, oddly enough I find the harmonics the thing I miss least about my old jb. They just (comparitively) sound so thin and weedy, it's like a screech where harmonics should wail. To me, anyway. To be honest the duncans seemed muddier to me than the warpigs. The neck lead sound I think is fantastic. It's quite similar to the late carcass stuff you mentioned, actually, but slightly more rounded and a bit fuller. I've never actually tuned mine below Eb, so everything I'm saying relates to pretty normal tunings. I really don't think you'll have a problem with highs, your explorer won't be as bass heavy as my ravelle to start with, and I don't have any problems with a lack of highs I don't think.
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Yeah GT sure the Duncans are thinner, but there's a certain response in that JB that comes good around, may depend on the equipment... My JB is in a selfbuilt Les Paul, means set neck, Khaya-Body (kind of Mahogany), Wenga-Top, Bahia neck (very midrange, strong attack) Ebony fingerboard, so it's a little brighter and faster than a regular standart... with the Diezel I can get a quite hot sound out of the JB, usin all that it's got then its ok... with the Gibson 500t I can get dozens of different shades of Distortion, good sounds... so for me the 500T is the more flexible, but that's just for me, most would say the JB as they count on cleans and overdrive. At least the JB is hardly a metal pickup, I wonder they make so much advertisement Dave Mustaine usin it...
Yes the fat heartwork and swansong sounds are the kind I'm after....very good. thanks for taking so much care about my problems/questions GT
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confusing ol that old school and modern... for me old school is like old slayer, venom kind a stuff, modern is like pantera or nevermore...
seems like today pantera is old school and system of a down is modern...
By the way WFD defleshed-under the blade was a great album....... modern guitar sound for me, but I think it's now old school, gotta get used to it...
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I've used the WP with my regular D-standard and drop-C tunings and it sounds awesome, but in standard it great too. You really can't go wrong with the WP.
Don't worry about it not having any highs - this is the usual scenario with mega-hot 'buckers but not the case with the WP. You will have all the top end you would usually get from a nice balanced 'bucker. I don't think the WP is 'dark' at all, it's just HUGE sounding with a phat bass end.
I'm gonna mess around with a variable coil-split on the WP at the weekend - that should be interesting.
:twisted:
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^call me a noob, but how does a variable coil split work?
I've often wondered how much they have to pay to get dave mustaine to use the jb/jazz set, no metaller in their right mind would choose them. It certainly has its uses, they're both good for slightly grungy rock, but certainly not metal.
I usually consider pantera fairly modern, especially their last few albums.
That's quite an exotic lp, must have been some expensive wood...
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Variable coil-split.... hmm. I#ve installed a jimmy Page wiring in my Les Paul with 4 Push/Pull-Pots... at least I don't use it too often.... Both Pickups in series gives quite a good powerful sound for solos... out-of-phase I don't use it really, coil-split ok if you want it thinner, but a split HB doesn't sound as good as a real single coil in my opinion...
The woods of the les Paul are a bit exotic but not too much... Bahia might be, but the sound is great. Not too expensive... there's much more expensive wood out there (all those spalted, quilted and striped stuff) but that's more for the eye than for the tone....
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I've used the WP with my regular D-standard and drop-C tunings and it sounds awesome, but in standard it great too. You really can't go wrong with the WP.
Don't worry about it not having any highs - this is the usual scenario with mega-hot 'buckers but not the case with the WP. You will have all the top end you would usually get from a nice balanced 'bucker. I don't think the WP is 'dark' at all, it's just HUGE sounding with a phat bass end.
I'm gonna mess around with a variable coil-split on the WP at the weekend - that should be interesting.
:twisted:
EXCELLENT. now iīm less worried about a possible lack of Highs from the WP
thankīs AGAIN man
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confusing ol that old school and modern... for me old school is like old slayer, venom kind a stuff, modern is like pantera or nevermore...
seems like today pantera is old school and system of a down is modern...
By the way WFD defleshed-under the blade was a great album....... modern guitar sound for me, but I think it's now old school, gotta get used to it...
I $%&#ing Love Defleshed.
but they QUITE
Q:/
Also.. i think they have an old school guitar tone, at least on their first 4 releases, cause the new one , reclaim the beat(new and last one) has a 7 string guitar and totally modern sound
Iīm not reffering to modern sound as an example of the $%&#ing BAD new metal eqs.. like linking park, and the likes.. that has the V type of equalization. only highs and bass boosted. mids scooped to death.
ahahah and silly/bad used ammounts of distortion
Thats Is musical homossexualism for me. ahaha hitīs a terrorist act against the MIGHTY AND UNHOLY CULTURE OF THE FULL DISTORTION
ahahahahahahahahahahaha
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^call me a noob, but how does a variable coil split work?
I've often wondered how much they have to pay to get dave mustaine to use the jb/jazz set, no metaller in their right mind would choose them. It certainly has its uses, they're both good for slightly grungy rock, but certainly not metal.
I usually consider pantera fairly modern, especially their last few albums.
That's quite an exotic lp, must have been some expensive wood...
i consider cryptopsy, decapitated, cephalic carnage, meshuggah, and New kreator sounds, very modern. pantera is kinda modern too, but not that much
this is turning out to be a GREAT thread. thankīs DOn.
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Yeah good description for modern though Cephalic and Cryptopsy are a little underground....not too many will know them. I think the actual Nevermore is a good example for modern sound.
I think Over Kill and Machine Head are good examples for modern guitat sound too. Modern but conservative too, not too modern, power- and dynamic-ful.
Maybe we should talk further on about Pickups now... Painkiller sounds interesting, but I wont wait so long, at a point you gotta make a decision and our talk convinced me more what belongs warpigs.... later on there might be miracle mans for my les Paul and I got place for a replacement down my flying V FF 82 (a rather nice piece)...
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Yeah, i cold buy a set of warpigs for my ibanez, tuned in C. and a set of either miracle man, or nailbombs for my charvel, tuned in D. But i want to wait for the Painkiller, cause i think it will be better for me to use in my charvel.
besides of that, iīll save money to get a calibrated set, but not a set of warpigs, but a set of Warpig-Cold Sweat, or warpig-Nailbomb.
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you could even have two slightly different Warpigs - one with the stock A5 magnet and another with a tighter bass & slightly more scooped midrange using a C5 magnet.
Mwuhahahahahahaaaa!!!! :twisted:
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tim recomended me a ceramic warpig
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Oh God another thing ceramic warpig what's that now 23 kOhm and ceramic magnet? I don't know... My JB hasn't got the right amount of power, but since I began to try out alnico V I get convinced more and more by it... It not only difference in bass-tightness and mid-richness, the alnico V seems to me more melodic, more musical. if you compare single notes and do a little of vibrato with your finger, the tone is rounder... ceramic seems to me more and more harsh in a negative way though I want hard distortionsounds... the general rule hard metal=ceramic more and more dissolves for me.... maybe good for just rythm ok, but for leads and rythm alnico V seems better to me
And by the way... a hot ceramic you can get at every corner, better ore worse ones....
But a real hot Metal Pickup that uses Alnico V you can search for long time until you find BKP, I don't know anybody else.... and i think that way you get a good chance to sound unique.... that's what the warpig was constructed for so forget all that ceramic or buy a miracle man that's my opinion (.......at the moment...hahahaha!)
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^ i think the ceramic warpig is toned down a little, to 20k, so it doesn't have an insane output...
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Yeah I think so too.... 20k ceramic is still a lot. By the way can someone tell me whether the magnetic fiel of the regular warpig is quite strong? for example when you lay a skrewdriver on and pull it away? I like my pickups close to the string... you can get problems with something like duncan invader at neck.... But I don't think so with the warpig, am I right?
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Hmm... have played some hours tonight and again compared the JB with the 500T to get out more about ceramic vs. alnico V...
Must say I'd like the JB a lot if it had enough power for my sound, it's like I said above... but then when I played the beginning of Slayer-angel of death, I realized the lack of tightness when fast riffing on the sixth string.... I hadn't enough time to try out whether different ampsettings would solve this problem... maybe tomorrow or the next days...
pooh this morning I was convinced that i'll buy a regular warpig.... Now again Warpig alnico, Warpig ceramic and Miracle man are spooking in my mind. Decision will take some time, but I'm not the first one I think...
Have a nice weekend guys!